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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#3451 Lord Snooty

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:15

Extraordinary lap.. just wonder if its the 'Dr. Jekyll' Maldonado or the 'Mr Hyde' Mad Dog we'll get tomorrow?

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#3452 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:17

Surely Maldonado will crash into something or someone tomorrow. Senna... just not good enough.

#3453 glorius&victorius

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:18

Lalli does it again! Unworthy of an F1 seat. Consistently outpaced by his team mate.

#3454 Topsu

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:19

He is no Senna.

#3455 Longtimefan

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:21

Great lap by Pastor!! Bruno showing his lack of talent again..

If his last name wasn't Senna, he wouldn't still be in that car IMO.


#3456 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:26

Pastor had me throwing my fist in the air! great lap! :D

#3457 Kyo

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:26

Senna hit the wall in almost all fast laps he tried with ss. :lol:


Good job by Maldonado. Now let's hope for another Catalunya.

#3458 race addicted

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:27

Williams are more than keeping up in the development race, alteast it seems so if you average out their qualifying speed (which has been up and down a bit). Great job by Maldonado to put it on the front-row.
Senna has been out of sorts this weekend.

#3459 PayasYouRace

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:34

Hoping that by starting on the front row Pastor will be able to stay out of trouble tomorrow and get a good haul of points. No crashes, no jump starts, please.

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#3460 tarmac

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:35

Toto Wolf told MTV3 he was in Finland talking to sponsors..

#3461 race addicted

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:37

Toto Wolf told MTV3 he was in Finland talking to sponsors..


..which is another confirmation of what we knew really, in march or april already.

#3462 Disgrace

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:48

Williams are more than keeping up in the development race, alteast it seems so if you average out their qualifying speed (which has been up and down a bit). Great job by Maldonado to put it on the front-row.
Senna has been out of sorts this weekend.


Just like he was in the HRT in 2010 at the very same circuit. Being thrashed by Klien was when the alarm bells really started to ring, and they could end up being defining moments in his career.

#3463 TFLB

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:52

So can we finally put to bed the myth that Senna would be as fast as Maldonado if he had all practice sessions?

#3464 GustavoB

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 15:40

I think so....... :(

I'm sad to say that, but Senna was a big disappointment this season. 16th in points and his qualifying record is horrible. Bring on Bottas.

Hope that Maldonado can do a entire race without crashing tomorrow because I'm sure that Senna can't.



#3465 mdaclarke

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:06

Senna does seem to be very hit and miss. Hopefully he can get some points tomorrow. If not he still has 6 races left to get a drive next season. I hope it is with WIlliams but I think it looks doubtful.

#3466 OoxLox

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:12

Well done to the team on a great qually (from Maldonado anyway). :up: A great opportunity to make up some ground on Sauber.

#3467 Anderis

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 19:32

A great opportunity to make up some ground on Sauber.

Does anyone still believe that Williams might catch Sauber this year? :drunk:

The realistic goal is to finish in front of FI. And if Pastor screws it again tomorrow, even this might be found out as a too ambitious task. :drunk:

Anyway, I believe Force India is catchable, but Sauber... they might not shine here, but I'm sure they will score decent points at least in 2 or 3 races more this season. Even if Pastor stays out of trouble, the difference is too big to be reduced in 7 races IMO. :| Williams would need to score more points in the remaining 7 races than they did in last 13 races and Sauber would have to stop scoring decent points at all. And Bruno doesn't look like he is able to do great job for Williams either.

For this season I only want Williams to finish in front of FI and Pastor to show some consistent point finishes in order to learn how to bring important points for Williams in 2013. :cool:

#3468 Collective

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 22:56

Lovely balance in this car! And Pastor's qualifying has been top notch all season. Congrats Williams fans!

#3469 paulogman

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 01:36

Does anyone still believe that Williams might catch Sauber this year? :drunk:

The realistic goal is to finish in front of FI. And if Pastor screws it again tomorrow, even this might be found out as a too ambitious task. :drunk:

Anyway, I believe Force India is catchable, but Sauber... they might not shine here, but I'm sure they will score decent points at least in 2 or 3 races more this season. Even if Pastor stays out of trouble, the difference is too big to be reduced in 7 races IMO. :| Williams would need to score more points in the remaining 7 races than they did in last 13 races and Sauber would have to stop scoring decent points at all. And Bruno doesn't look like he is able to do great job for Williams either.

For this season I only want Williams to finish in front of FI and Pastor to show some consistent point finishes in order to learn how to bring important points for Williams in 2013. :cool:

why not?
maldonado will score. the williams has more potential than the sauber. and senna will be moved aside before the end of the season for bottas...

#3470 Disgrace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:01

why not?
maldonado will score. the williams has more potential than the sauber. and senna will be moved aside before the end of the season for bottas...


Far from a certainty, he has only scored twice this season whereas Senna has been in the points seven times. Lo and behold that despite the vast difference in pace, they're together in the championship. In other words, both are massively underperforming.

Edited by Disgrace, 23 September 2012 - 02:02.


#3471 paulogman

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:03

Far from a certainty, he has only scored twice this season whereas Senna has been in the points seven times. Lo and behold that despite the vast difference in pace, they're together in the championship. In other words, both are massively underperforming.

just going on the idea that there are less cars in front of him to catch and then hit while passing.

#3472 Disgrace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:06

just going on the idea that there are less cars in front of him to catch and then hit while passing.


Fair enough, I happen to agree. I also agree that the cars around him have more to lose than he does, so they'll also be giving him a wider berth. If I was to bet money, I would bet on Maldonado scoring tomorrow but it wouldn't be too much though I can actually see him winning the thing.

Edited by Disgrace, 23 September 2012 - 02:08.


#3473 paulogman

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:26

for whatever reason maldonado seems to be very precise on tight street circuits. with the advantage of starting so close to the front I see him making the most of it.
and he is also impervious to pressure from cars following him.

#3474 Jambo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:50

Been a really busy weekend but delighted with that lap from Pastor. Team seemed to spend all practices working on race pace too so fingers crossed for a good one!

#3475 race addicted

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:12

I always think of Lotus vs Williams whenever Maldonado out qualifies the Lotuses, as there's the feeling of "what-if", had Räikkönen agreed terms with Williams.
Very happy for Williams, cause as I've said earlier, even if their performances are a bit up and down, they've kept up in the development-race.

On Senna, I doubt he'll be ousted before the season is over, as that would mean his sponsors would slash off their contributions accordingly.

#3476 Mithrandir

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:15

Laughable. Gross incompetence...
They have computers, they have brains (allegedly) but still manage to not calculate where the driver will rejoin the race after his pit stop.

Edit: DNF...

Edited by Mithrandir, 23 September 2012 - 13:19.


#3477 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:09

What a shame. Pastor was doing everything right today too.

#3478 joora

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:53

When maldonado isn,'t doing stupid mistakes he usually has no luck. Only mistake today was one on the start. He had a clean Weekend and a great position (new SS after sc restart would enable some overtaking chances).

But at least he is getting into chances to score big points. Frank and Toto should seriously consider putting Bottas behind the wheel for the few last races.

#3479 race addicted

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:56

Williams got Sauber's Spa-luck this time. Huge shame, 'cause today was all about digging into Force India's lead on them, but instead they drop back massively. Feel so sorry for Williams, and a little for Maldonado and Senna as well.

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#3480 Kyo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:01

When maldonado isn,'t doing stupid mistakes he usually has no luck. Only mistake today was one on the start. He had a clean Weekend and a great position (new SS after sc restart would enable some overtaking chances).

But at least he is getting into chances to score big points. Frank and Toto should seriously consider putting Bottas behind the wheel for the few last races.

unless Bottas has no funding for next year yet, it's a bad idea for him, since he would have nothing to gain.

#3481 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:08

Why did they put Maldonado on SS tyres after his second stop? Totally stupid and would've cost him a big result even before the reliability problems.

Yesterday in Q3 when Kobayashi was sitting in the pits on a slower time than Senna, they had him pushing and wasting a set of soft tyres (and almost crashing) before he abandoned the lap near the end. Strategy and pit stops are poor from Williams.

Senna's pace was good until the final stint, when it was poor to extremely poor.

#3482 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:43

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102786

oh the irony of it.....

#3483 Lord Snooty

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:53

Team still sounds upbeat though

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102798

#3484 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:04

The car had good pace, so I don't blame them. It also looked very well balanced. That has to be encouraging for the future.

#3485 Anderis

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:39

What a frustrating thing to be a Williams fan nowadays. :( I wanted to write something more but everybody saw how this season has gone.

#3486 Lord Snooty

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:28

What a frustrating thing to be a Williams fan nowadays. :( I wanted to write something more but everybody saw how this season has gone.



:(

#3487 g1n

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:32

What a frustrating thing to be a Williams fan nowadays. :( I wanted to write something more but everybody saw how this season has gone.


well be happy that it is already miles better than how last year has gone, don't be too greedy :wave:

#3488 mdaclarke

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:58

I thought Senna had a good race today. If only he could sort his qualifying out!!!

#3489 Baddoer

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 21:25

Pastor did a great job until his retirement. He held Alonso pretty well and played very safe behind Grosjean.

#3490 SUPRAF1

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:35

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but according to Ted Kravitz, Senna's first gear stopped working, and then he had KERS issues to the point where he got a radio message telling him NOT to touch the car and the ground at the same time due to risk of electrocution...

#3491 ViMaMo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:39

On the bright side Pastor's qualifying time was 1.8 seconds faster that his time last year. :eek: The car has improved tremendously. Pastor was so much better this race, hope he keeps up.

#3492 Massa

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:09

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but according to Ted Kravitz, Senna's first gear stopped working, and then he had KERS issues to the point where he got a radio message telling him NOT to touch the car and the ground at the same time due to risk of electrocution...



Yes, we saw Senna said to the marshall to not touch the car

#3493 Anderis

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:53

well be happy that it is already miles better than how last year has gone, don't be too greedy :wave:

Let's look beyond comparision between this and last year.

Good WCC position and consistent results are what matter.

2007 was the last acceptable season considering Williams's resources (4th in WCC with 5th best car was good job considering they beat several much richer teams and haven't been beaten by smaller teams). Since then:
- The car was simply not good enough: 2008, 2010, 2011
- When car was good enough: 2009, 2012, the team couldn't consistently deliver results which those car deserved for whatever reasons (drivers, bad pit stops, strategy mistakes etc.).

2012 looks quite good when compared to 2011, but they struggle to beat Force India 3rd year in row. Running for championships is not exactly what you can demand from Williams nowadays, but they should be beating teams like Sauber and Force India consistently, but they aren't. And all come in the wrong time. They had good driver pairing in 2010, but the car was not good enoguh. When the car was good enough, results were hurt by Nakajima's, Senna's and Maldonado's poor performances. I'm not Williams's fan since 2011 to be enjoying this season. But maybe I'm lucky that I'm not Williams' fan since their championships days, having even more trouble with accepting current team's performaces.

TBH I'm aware that Williams needed to compromise their driver line-up for this year for financial reasons and I'm not particularly angry that the team didn't get the results due to this. But there are still problems with things like strategy and pit stops and I'm sure if drivers wouldn't be throwing away point-scoring opportunities this year, this would have been more visible. Now the team is in good shape financially (and they don't need to look for additional money after poor season, like they needed after last year) so they should pay more attention to improve in this aspects, as the car is proven to be good. Not to mention that they should drop Senna after this season, but I believe that's almost sure that he will be replaced by Bottas if suddenly doesn't find the pace to outperform Maldonado convincigly.

So all things considered, Williams always find a way how not to bring good results consistently. Car is usually not good enough, but when it's, drivers usually don't perform, but when they do, the team are making strategy mistakes and doing poor pit stops or just having bad luck. When something goes wrong, it's usually just when there was a chance for really good scoring. And in addition their WCC rivals have usually good luck, like Force India this season, as they put their best performances usually when there are many retirements of quicker cars.
That's why it's painful to be a Williams' fan nowadays.

Will 2013 be better? :rotfl:

#3494 Jambo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:43

You know, this year has been frustrating, but Williams have won a race and have pretty much been top ten everywhere on pace.

I, personally, am happy to see this and this year has been much more promising. This is the first year with a new engine, new technical team and a new driver in Bruno. Financially the team is in a decent position and look good fro the future.

Am not finding this year to be painful at all, much happier than I have been since Rosberg managed to set the fastest lap on his debut in F1!

#3495 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:08

I've certainly felt a lot better about this year than last. Last year was a genuine disaster and hopes for this season looked grim.

This year the team won a race purely on merit and have shown good pace on most weekends. So even though points have been thrown away by both drivers and the team, the building blocks are in place for improved results. Change doesn't happen overnight. Sure it's a little frustrating, but there's also more hope.

#3496 Kyo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:43

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but according to Ted Kravitz, Senna's first gear stopped working, and then he had KERS issues to the point where he got a radio message telling him NOT to touch the car and the ground at the same time due to risk of electrocution...

There was a radio msg saying not to use 1st gear. was still at the beginning of the race, anyway he did a good 1st and 2nd stints, but after the safety car was pretty poor.

#3497 Anderis

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:43

Don't get me wrong. I agree this season can give us some hope for the future.

The most frustrating thing for me is not that Williams don't deliver results this year (apart from one race win). It is that Williams don't deliver results they should yet another year in row. The best they got in last 5 years was 6th in WCC after very hard battle to the last race with Force India. It's not good enough. Race win on merit and having consistently good pace in other races is good, but WCC is what you get the money from and if you are constantly finishing 2-3 places below your capabilities it's going to hurt the team in long term. OK, sometimes something goes wrong and you must be ready that you can finish one year in WCC clearly below the team capabilites. But if you do it in 4 out of 5 consecutive seasons... you don't get the money you could and you can go further backward due to this.

#3498 Petroltorque

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 17:24

6 races to go is too early to write the season's story. The car will be strong at ALL remaining races. FI are not safe in sixth and anymore races like Singapore for Saiber and fifth will be up for grabs as well.

#3499 Anderis

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 18:20

Force India is already 7th in WCC and Sauber is 6th. :wave:

Force India should be catchable, but Sauber, no way... they won't be performing like in Singapore in all races to the end of the season, I'm sure they will have 2 or 3 good weekends. Williams would need to gain on them 8 points per race at average. Doesn't sound like impossible, but it would demand at least 4 perfect races out of those 6 for Williams and 6 bad or very mediocre at best races for Sauber. I don't believe it will happen.

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#3500 Little Leaf

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:05

It's encouraging to see Pastor cleaning his act up, 2 race weekends in a row now without incident is a minor miracle! He is definitely quick.

I feel the team will really gel for next year, with the design team and Renault engines in their second year, Pastor hopefully continuing to improve and the prospect of Bottas it woould appear the team have a chance of making further improvements.

This season isn't over yet though and FI are there to be caught