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Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


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#3551 Kyo

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:17

anyone got any footage that actually show the incident?

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#3552 gio66

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 17:26

anyone got any footage that actually show the incident?

IMHO, watching at the picures, Bruno has modified his racing line to avoid Alonso who was coming back in the middle pf the track, then Nico has slowed to avoid the Gros-Webber collision and Bruno bumped into the W03.
Racing incident.

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#3553 berto

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:09

IMHO, watching at the picures, Bruno has modified his racing line to avoid Alonso who was coming back in the middle pf the track, then Nico has slowed to avoid the Gros-Webber collision and Bruno bumped into the W03.
Racing incident.



Actually, I think these pictures clearly show Bruno changed his line a little to avoid Alonso and, as bad as a racer he is, didn't care about lifting to complete the corner properly. He dives too early and the car has understeer veering to the outside of the track where Rosberg is. He should have lifted but just keep it on and bang, ruins Nico's race and his own. Totally his fault, bad judgement all around it.


#3554 gio66

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:19

as bad as a racer he is

So a bad racer can set the 4th fastest lap on an easy track like Suzuka? Wow!

Any other funny opinion?

#3555 schumimercamg

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:27

So a bad racer can set the 4th fastest lap on an easy track like Suzuka? Wow!

Any other funny opinion?



He said the word 'racer' there is a difference between racing and fast lapping.

#3556 TFLB

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:59

So a bad racer can set the 4th fastest lap on an easy track like Suzuka? Wow!

Any other funny opinion?

His fourth fastest lap - and indeed his fastest lap a few races ago - are completely unrepresentative because he was on fresher tyres and had clean air etc. The reality is he's just not that quick, and he must tie with his teammate and Grosjean for the most accident-prone driver this season.

#3557 gio66

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:51

His fourth fastest lap - and indeed his fastest lap a few races ago - are completely unrepresentative because he was on fresher tyres and had clean air etc.

Vettel 1.35.774 - lap 52 - hard on lap 37 (15 laps) - clean air
Button 1.36.606 - lap 51 - hard on lap 35 (16 laps) - following Koba (-1.1)
Kobayashi 1.36.679 - lap 52 - hard on lap 31 (21 laps) - clean air
Senna 1.36.819 - lap 44 - soft on lap 34 (10 laps) - clean air, then he reached Vergne
Massa 1.36.894 - lap 50 - hard on lap 36 (14 laps) - clean air
Schumacher 1.36.942 - lap 43 - soft on lap 36 (7 laps) - clean air, then he reached Ricciardo
Webber 1.37.128 - lap 49 - hard on lap 26 (23 laps) - clean air
Ricciardo 1.37.455 - lap 50 - hard on lap 34 (16 laps) - clean air
Vergne 1.37.533 - lap 39 - soft on lap 35 (4 laps) - clean air
Di Resta 1.37.535 - lap 48 - hard on lap 32 (16 laps) - clean air
Hamilton 1.37.760 - lap 45 - hard on lap 31 (14 laps) - clean air
Maldonado 1.37.771 - lap 45 - hard on lap 33 (12 laps) - reaching Hulk (-1.7)
Kovalainen 1.38.043 - lap 52 - hard on lap 41 (10 laps) - clean air
Grosjean 1.38.277 - lap 32 - hard on lap 22 (10 laps) - reaching Kova (-1.4)
Petrov 1.38.344 - lap 47 - soft on lap 42 (5 laps) - clean air
Glock 1.38.756 - lap 48 - hard on lap 40 (8 laps) - clean air

Of course, no one knows what result could have been obtained by Senna, Button, Schumacher and Maldonado if they had not been stopped by the driver reached.

PS the change of strategy has prevented Bruno to use a set of soft tires

#3558 skywing

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 19:59

Vettel 1.35.774 - lap 52 - hard on lap 37 (15 laps) - clean air
Button 1.36.606 - lap 51 - hard on lap 35 (16 laps) - following Koba (-1.1)
Kobayashi 1.36.679 - lap 52 - hard on lap 31 (21 laps) - clean air
Senna 1.36.819 - lap 44 - soft on lap 34 (10 laps) - clean air, then he reached Vergne
Massa 1.36.894 - lap 50 - hard on lap 36 (14 laps) - clean air
Schumacher 1.36.942 - lap 43 - soft on lap 36 (7 laps) - clean air, then he reached Ricciardo
Webber 1.37.128 - lap 49 - hard on lap 26 (23 laps) - clean air
Ricciardo 1.37.455 - lap 50 - hard on lap 34 (16 laps) - clean air
Vergne 1.37.533 - lap 39 - soft on lap 35 (4 laps) - clean air
Di Resta 1.37.535 - lap 48 - hard on lap 32 (16 laps) - clean air
Hamilton 1.37.760 - lap 45 - hard on lap 31 (14 laps) - clean air
Maldonado 1.37.771 - lap 45 - hard on lap 33 (12 laps) - reaching Hulk (-1.7)
Kovalainen 1.38.043 - lap 52 - hard on lap 41 (10 laps) - clean air
Grosjean 1.38.277 - lap 32 - hard on lap 22 (10 laps) - reaching Kova (-1.4)
Petrov 1.38.344 - lap 47 - soft on lap 42 (5 laps) - clean air
Glock 1.38.756 - lap 48 - hard on lap 40 (8 laps) - clean air

Of course, no one knows what result could have been obtained by Senna, Button, Schumacher and Maldonado if they had not been stopped by the driver reached.

PS the change of strategy has prevented Bruno to use a set of soft tires

It's just too bad that this is what matters:

1 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 53 1:28:56.242 1 25
2 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 53 +20.6 secs 10 18
3 14 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 53 +24.5 secs 3 15
4 3 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 53 +25.0 secs 8 12
5 4 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 53 +46.4 secs 9 10
6 9 Kimi Räikkönen Lotus-Renault 53 +50.4 secs 7 8
7 12 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 53 +51.1 secs 15 6
8 18 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 53 +52.3 secs 12 4
9 2 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 53 +54.6 secs 2 2
10 16 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 53 +66.9 secs 14 1
11 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 53 +67.7 secs 23
12 11 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 53 +83.4 secs 11
13 17 Jean-Eric Vergne STR-Ferrari 53 +88.6 secs 19
14 19 Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 53 +88.7 secs 16
15 20 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 52 +1 Lap 17
16 24 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 52 +1 Lap 18
17 21 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 52 +1 Lap 22
18 22 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 52 +1 Lap 20
19 10 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 51 Retired 4
Ret 25 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 37 Engine 21
Ret 23 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 32 Retired 24
Ret 15 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 18 Spin 5
Ret 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 0 Accident 6
Ret 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 0 Accident 13

#3559 gio66

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:04

I was not arguing with you. Do you need anything?

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#3560 joora

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:22

Finally some points, but I'm a bit bored now that Pastor has been tamed. Pastor of old would do anything to get past Hulk and Kimi, now it seems that all he does is collect points. Useful for the team, but boring to watch.

As for Bruno, another race, another lost FW.

#3561 TFLB

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:26

Does anyone here know how many accidents Senna has had? Must be almost as many as Grosjean.

#3562 Baddoer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:27

This car should fly in Yeongam. Put money safely on another excellent Q3 Maldonado performance.

#3563 Disgrace

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:28

His fourth fastest lap - and indeed his fastest lap a few races ago - are completely unrepresentative because he was on fresher tyres and had clean air etc. The reality is he's just not that quick, and he must tie with his teammate and Grosjean for the most accident-prone driver this season.


At least MAL/GRO have podium (or race winning) pace. Senna is slow and accident-prone, which has proven to be fairly disastrous for him and for Williams WCC hopes.

#3564 SamH123

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:51

This car should fly in Yeongam. Put money safely on another excellent Q3 Maldonado performance.


Why do you think it will be much better than Suzuka? Yeongam looks fairly similar to Suzuka but with some slightly slower sections and a big straight. I think the Renaults will lose a little compared to the merc powered cars

#3565 Collective

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:35

Why do you think it will be much better than Suzuka? Yeongam looks fairly similar to Suzuka but with some slightly slower sections and a big straight. I think the Renaults will lose a little compared to the merc powered cars

Turns very slow, plenty 90 deg. Judging by Singapore and Hungary this baby should fly. I'm putting a few bucks on a Maldo podium.

#3566 jee

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:13

The FW34 seems to be very strong when accelerating through curves and there are quite a few of non straight acceleration exits in Yeongam

#3567 Baddoer

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:21

Why do you think it will be much better than Suzuka? Yeongam looks fairly similar to Suzuka but with some slightly slower sections and a big straight. I think the Renaults will lose a little compared to the merc powered cars

No, it is actually quite different. There are quite a lot of slow-mid-speed corners, a lot of tricky brakings, that suits perfectly to FW34

#3568 mich

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:53

Maldonado and Senna bring much money but Williams loose prize money as same as they bring, doesn't it?
Maybe, they lose about 10 million euro, as same as Senna brings.
It's clear that FW34 is faster than Sauber, Force India and even faster than Mercedes, but they got only half point of Sauber duo.

#3569 SPBHM

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 19:16

Maldonado and Senna bring much money but Williams loose prize money as same as they bring, doesn't it?
Maybe, they lose about 10 million euro, as same as Senna brings.
It's clear that FW34 is faster than Sauber, Force India and even faster than Mercedes, but they got only half point of Sauber duo.


it was faster in some tracks, but not always, I don't think that the Williams was faster than Sauber in Suzuka for example...

I think Maldonado did a good job in Japan.

#3570 Myrvold

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 19:20

I can't find it now, but I've seen some reports stating that Senna brings almost the amount that Maldonado does O.o

But then again, it's been claimed that the Chiltons, and Aon will bring in around 20 mill more than Maldonado for Marussia as well, so. Reports are just that. :p

#3571 mich

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 19:48

it was faster in some tracks, but not always, I don't think that the Williams was faster than Sauber in Suzuka for example...

I think Maldonado did a good job in Japan.

No doubt in Suzuka or some races where tyre management was key, Sauber was faster.
But in usual circuits designed by Hermann Tilke Williams was completely faster than them.
If more competitive and consistent driver, like Sauber or Force India duo were in Williams, now they would be 5th, at least 6th!
If Raikkonen were, he would win some races and also challenge a championship!

They are losing not only prize but also commercial value!

Edited by mich, 08 October 2012 - 19:54.


#3572 Anderis

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 20:18

If more competitive and consistent driver, like Sauber or Force India duo were in Williams, now they would be 5th, at least 6th!
If Raikkonen were, he would win some races and also challenge a championship!

Agree with the first sentence, but disagree with second.

While FW34 is a good car, I don't believe anybody would be able to challenge for WDC in it. First of all, there were some reliability issues at Williams this season and their pit stops are one of the worst on the grid. So this would take quite a lot of points from any driver who would be sitting in this car and fighting for good results consistently.
+ Raikkonen is being outpaced by Grosjean so many times this season, that I don't believe he is getting absolutely everything out of the car.

Maldonado proved against Barrichello, that pace-wise he is a good benchmark of what the car is capable. But judging on his pace, podium was realistic only 4, maybe 5 times this season (including Singapore, when the team got it wrong with the strategy and the car failed to finish the race). I doubt there are drivers on the grid who were capable of putting this car on the podium much more than those 4 times. It's not enough for championship challenge.

100-120 points is the best realistic scenario of what a good driver could have done with the team this year. Hardly enough for a championship challenge.

And about money, I say it again. If Senna hadn't come with his money last winter, Williams wouldn't be so competitive team right now. Further consideration doesn't really make sense in this case, but if we really want to consider, then chosing a top driver instead of Senna could at best bring about as much money (WCC standings, exposure, interest) as Bruno is bringing, but it would come too late by one year. But first: there was no really top driver available for Williams, and second: taking anybody with less money was a big risk, as if FW34 wouldn't be so good car, not even a top driver could secure for the team anywhere as much money as Bruno brings.

#3573 mich

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:00

Agree with the first sentence, but disagree with second.

While FW34 is a good car, I don't believe anybody would be able to challenge for WDC in it. First of all, there were some reliability issues at Williams this season and their pit stops are one of the worst on the grid. So this would take quite a lot of points from any driver who would be sitting in this car and fighting for good results consistently.
+ Raikkonen is being outpaced by Grosjean so many times this season, that I don't believe he is getting absolutely everything out of the car.

Maldonado proved against Barrichello, that pace-wise he is a good benchmark of what the car is capable. But judging on his pace, podium was realistic only 4, maybe 5 times this season (including Singapore, when the team got it wrong with the strategy and the car failed to finish the race). I doubt there are drivers on the grid who were capable of putting this car on the podium much more than those 4 times. It's not enough for championship challenge.

100-120 points is the best realistic scenario of what a good driver could have done with the team this year. Hardly enough for a championship challenge.

And about money, I say it again. If Senna hadn't come with his money last winter, Williams wouldn't be so competitive team right now. Further consideration doesn't really make sense in this case, but if we really want to consider, then chosing a top driver instead of Senna could at best bring about as much money (WCC standings, exposure, interest) as Bruno is bringing, but it would come too late by one year. But first: there was no really top driver available for Williams, and second: taking anybody with less money was a big risk, as if FW34 wouldn't be so good car, not even a top driver could secure for the team anywhere as much money as Bruno brings.


About Raikkonen:
Williams' pit stop were not so fast like Redbull or Ferrari but Lotus' were almost same average as Williams.
Auto Motor und Sport, German media, reported Williams was 4.45s and Lotus 4.49s.
And as you said, I think podiums were realistic only 4, maybe 5 times this season if Raikkonen were.
But now he got just 5 podiums and didn't win but was 3rd in championship.
There were some reliability problem or inconsistent in some races for Williams but there would be some possibility Raikkonen challenged.

About money:
Exactly!
Money Senna brings help FW34 performance. So this decision might not be so bad for them "only for this year".
But I think Adrian Sutil or some Indy car top drivers could work better.
Anyway Williams should choose drivers without so much considering how much they bring!

#3574 Lord Snooty

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:12

Just an odd thought; Pastor is in the news section again saying Williams is not confirmed for next year and he is 'considering his options'. What does that mean, I wonder? I genuinely don't believe that Williams would drop him (as much as I am equally sure that they WILL drop Senna) so could it be that he has been approached by some of the other teams? The PDVSA money will follow him and he is undeniably quick (if a bit raw) and is beginning to learn to manage the negative aspects of his race behaviour out of his system. Put the two together (money plus fast, maturing driver) and it becomes an attractive proposition, one that Team India and Sauber might be tempted to snaffle>

#3575 SPBHM

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:24

I can definitely see Sauber and FI approaching Maldonado, maybe even Lotus.

#3576 Little Leaf

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:07

Just an odd thought; Pastor is in the news section again saying Williams is not confirmed for next year and he is 'considering his options'. What does that mean, I wonder? I genuinely don't believe that Williams would drop him (as much as I am equally sure that they WILL drop Senna) so could it be that he has been approached by some of the other teams? The PDVSA money will follow him and he is undeniably quick (if a bit raw) and is beginning to learn to manage the negative aspects of his race behaviour out of his system. Put the two together (money plus fast, maturing driver) and it becomes an attractive proposition, one that Team India and Sauber might be tempted to snaffle>


Similar stories appeared before the race last weekend. I put it down to Maldo posturing and trying to get the best deal possible, but maybe he would look elsewhere. In all seriousness what are the alternatives for him who haven't tied their drivers up for next year?

Sauber
FI
Lotus

All the teams above the midfield have 2 drivers confirmed for next year bar Ferrari, and I can't see him having a chance there. So that would leave as alternatives the 3 teams above.

I think Maldo realises that with the progress the team has made this season and the tech team staying the same and rules more or less the same, that his best option would be staying at Williams.

I think with the progress he has made in the last few races, ie staying out of trouble, and his raw pace he will be a good team leader for next year. I fully expect him to be partnered with Bottas as already said on here by many.

If he did leave would any Williams fans be that bothered? The thing that would annoy me the most would be that Senna would have a chance of staying! Harsh but true

#3577 Anderis

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:07

If he did leave would any Williams fans be that bothered?

Yes, I would. I honestly can't see any realistic option for 2013 which would be an improvement over Maldonado. All Williams need to do is to pair him with somebody much more reliable than Bruno. Pastor should be ensured that he won't outscore his team-mate in 2013 with such a poor showing like he did this year. This year he shines over Bruno whenever he crashes or not! I think it's one of the reasons why it took him so long to realise that he needs to change his approach.

#3578 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:37

I'd be bothered if he left. Barcelona wasn't lucky but a demonstration that when he's good, he's very good. I think this year has been a measure of "sophomore slump" (Is that what it's called?) too. I still think he's an asset to the team. It's Bruno, that likable as he is, isn't performing. It'll be sad to see him go. But then if an exciting young prospect like Bottas replaces him, I'd be excited.

We've already had one miracle this decade. It's probably too much to expect another. Progress doesn't come instantly.

#3579 TFLB

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:22

I'd be disappointed if Maldonado left, because Williams would be losing one of the top three qualifiers in the sport and a driver who has the potential to be one of the best if (when?) he cuts out the mistakes.

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#3580 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:02

its clear and obvious for anyone that senna is just not up to Formula 1 , he just cant handle it by any means. grosjean and maldonado make a lot of accidents but one is beating a world champion teammate in qualifying and sometimes in races , and the other had a race win . when you are an accident nutcase at least compensate that with some raw speed to be even considered a 2nd tier driver. definitely out of f1 next year

#3581 Sanman59

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:17

its clear and obvious for anyone that senna is just not up to Formula 1 , he just cant handle it by any means. grosjean and maldonado make a lot of accidents but one is beating a world champion teammate in qualifying and sometimes in races , and the other had a race win . when you are an accident nutcase at least compensate that with some raw speed to be even considered a 2nd tier driver. definitely out of f1 next year



Agree they have to bring in Bottas or he will go elsewhere and there will be another embarrassment like losing Hulkenberg!

Bottas is at least as quick as Maldo and has beaten him on several fridays. They have to sign him.

:rolleyes:

#3582 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:33

If Maldonado is available with money, they simply have to re-sign him otherwise there's a huge £30m hole in their budget. I remember Adam Parr saying the team had to finish 4th or 5th in the CC to be financially viable, it was only Maldonado who changed all that. Certainly on current form there is very little defense for Senna to be kept on but I think they're right to wait until the end of the season. Rosberg had a pretty poor 2006 but was much better in 2007.

#3583 4L3X

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:37

Why people keep hoping for Bottas? I'm starting to dislike the guy just for all the favours he already has (management connections inside the team). Even if he proves to be fast (which I have no reason to believe he will, since I never believed FP show much) I won't like him for that already.

I think if you want to replace Senna (which they should), is to put someone who can deliver performance + points. Kobayashi is out of Sauber? Bring him in. I'd rather see Kova or many other multi seasoned experienced drivers than another unproven rookie.

#3584 4L3X

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:38

Heck, didn't Barrichello had as much money as Senna, or close? Bring him back. I'd rather see him back for one year, than Bottas, seriously, especially if we lose Maldo.

#3585 Lord Snooty

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:44

A bit of light relief for a grey (in London) Tuesday afternoon... I see Williams have given the Formula 2 champion, Luciano Bacheta, a test slot later this month (in an FW33, I think), which is a great way of evaluating future drivers.

But, Luciano Bacheta?

An Italian driver perhaps?

Er, no... he's from Romford, east of London, born and bred! Talk about shades of Dario Franchitti and Paul Di Resta (both very Italian sounding but British drivers). If Luciano can emulate them he may well have a great future in motorsport.

:up:


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103258

http://www.lucianobacheta.com/

Edited by Lord Snooty, 09 October 2012 - 15:46.


#3586 Anderis

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:22

Why people keep hoping for Bottas?

Because there are many signs that suggest he may be very talented driver. Of course you can never be 100% sure, but if Williams want to have a really good driver in the near future, they need to risk. It doesn't seem like a very big risk though, the combination of speed, consistency and not making mistakes which Bottas is showing since the very beginning of his F1 car drivings doesn't suggest that he is going to be a disaster.

Heck, didn't Barrichello had as much money as Senna, or close? Bring him back. I'd rather see him back for one year, than Bottas, seriously, especially if we lose Maldo.

Barrichello managed to find about 1/3 amount of sponsorship money compared to what Bruno brings. I don't think Williams would go for Rubens again. Leaving the question if he is a good option, or not, hiring the driver which was fired by them just one year ago is like admitting to the mistake and this rarely happens in F1.

Well, Maldonado-Bottas pairing is something that I would really love to see at Williams. :love:

#3587 TFLB

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 16:26

Why people keep hoping for Bottas? I'm starting to dislike the guy just for all the favours he already has (management connections inside the team). Even if he proves to be fast (which I have no reason to believe he will, since I never believed FP show much) I won't like him for that already.

I think if you want to replace Senna (which they should), is to put someone who can deliver performance + points. Kobayashi is out of Sauber? Bring him in. I'd rather see Kova or many other multi seasoned experienced drivers than another unproven rookie.

If everyone in F1 shared your mentality about rookies then how would any new drivers ever come into the sport? Bottas has been a frontrunner in every series he's competed in, he deserves a chance.

#3588 djparky

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:12

If he did leave would any Williams fans be that bothered?



personally no- I'm not a fan of Maldo- he had one great race in Spain, then threw alot of good results down the toilet because he had moments of rock ape stupidity- it's no good being fast if you keep crashing into things- he must have chucked 50-60 odd points away this year

It's a shame that Williams needed the money otherwise I can't believe they would have replaced Hulkenberg with Maldo otherwise- funding aside he can go and break some Saubers or Caterhams or whatever as far as I'm concerned.

#3589 glorius&victorius

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:26

Maldo not so sure about Williams 2013: http://www1.skysport...ompetitive-team

Perhaps Williams now feel that their car and car-development is stable enough to earn money on the track, instead of the driver.
GOOD FOR THEM!

#3590 Little Leaf

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:48

Maldo not so sure about Williams 2013: http://www1.skysport...ompetitive-team

Perhaps Williams now feel that their car and car-development is stable enough to earn money on the track, instead of the driver.
GOOD FOR THEM!


Another spin on the comments he made over the weekend. Maybe he thinks he has a chance at Ferrari??????

Other than that I would think his other options would only be Sauber or Lotus.

The loss of funding would hurt Williams for sure and Maldo has shown improvement over the last few races in terms of staying out of trouble.



#3591 Anderis

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:32

Perhaps Williams now feel that their car and car-development is stable enough to earn money on the track, instead of the driver.
GOOD FOR THEM!

I'm pretty sure it's not the case. There is no option to get as much money as Maldonado brings by changing just one driver. The best option for Williams now is to keep Maldonado with his $$$ and to pair him with somebody who will take as much from the car as it is possible.

I can think of the scenario when Chavez wants to reduce the amount of money that comes with Maldonado.
And Pastor saying those things can work for someone. But I'm not sure he is working for Chavez (hey Williams, I can go for another team if you insist to keep the current level of sponsorship), or for Williams (hey Chavez, I'm not sure if Williams is going to keep me for any longer, so better pay much money if you want a Venezuelan F1 driver in 2013).

#3592 Little Leaf

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:40

I'm pretty sure it's not the case. There is no option to get as much money as Maldonado brings by changing just one driver. The best option for Williams now is to keep Maldonado with his $$$ and to pair him with somebody who will take as much from the car as it is possible.

I can think of the scenario when Chavez wants to reduce the amount of money that comes with Maldonado.
And Pastor saying those things can work for someone. But I'm not sure he is working for Chavez (hey Williams, I can go for another team if you insist to keep the current level of sponsorship), or for Williams (hey Chavez, I'm not sure if Williams is going to keep me for any longer, so better pay much money if you want a Venezuelan F1 driver in 2013).


This is most likely what is going on here. Maldo is trying to get the best deal possible, as any driver would. And Williams want Maldo to stay as he is fast but also want as much money as possible, as any team would.

So there are 2 scenarios for next year, 1 with Maldo the other without. I still think it will end up Maldo and Bottas, but there again I never dreamed Senna would get the second seat this year!!!

#3593 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:44

Looks like it's gonna be an all Finn line-up for 2013. Kimi-Vale! :p underground rumour.

#3594 Disgrace

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 20:55

Because there are many signs that suggest he may be very talented driver. Of course you can never be 100% sure, but if Williams want to have a really good driver in the near future, they need to risk. It doesn't seem like a very big risk though, the combination of speed, consistency and not making mistakes which Bottas is showing since the very beginning of his F1 car drivings doesn't suggest that he is going to be a disaster.


Exactly. Furthermore, the driver he seems destined to replace is Senna, who with Massa's improvement is the biggest underperformer of the season. Williams got on the Hulkenberg bandwagon early and he has, perhaps slightly late, proven to be a quick racing driver. What they see in Bottas should hopefully come to fruition, this time at Williams.

Edited by Disgrace, 10 October 2012 - 20:56.


#3595 SPBHM

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:00

I still think Maldonado is a pretty good deal, he have the financial backing from Venezuela and it's fast, not every driver with the same amount of experience would have won like he did, even with a pretty good car, also the last 2 races have been quite positive in terms of how he performed and was not involved in any trouble.

another interesting video from Peter Windsor, visiting the Williams collection


#3596 ViMaMo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:33

Sorry to be asking this question so late, always wanted to ask this but couldnt. Have Williams retained the revolutionary rear end they designed last year?

#3597 Little Leaf

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:06

Looks like it's gonna be an all Finn line-up for 2013. Kimi-Vale! :p underground rumour.


Don't think there is much chance of that to be honest

But then I never dreamed Senna would be driving for Williams this year!

#3598 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:11

A Kimi/Willie partnership would get a :up: from me. But I don't see that happening next year.

#3599 TFLB

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:25

I'd be so annoyed if Raikkonen went to Williams. :mad:

Edited by TFLB, 11 October 2012 - 11:25.


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#3600 Lord Snooty

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:29

I still think Maldonado is a pretty good deal, he have the financial backing from Venezuela and it's fast, not every driver with the same amount of experience would have won like he did, even with a pretty good car, also the last 2 races have been quite positive in terms of how he performed and was not involved in any trouble.

another interesting video from Peter Windsor, visiting the Williams collection



Great video

:up: