Jump to content


Photo

Williams 2012 - FW34 Renault


  • Please log in to reply
3953 replies to this topic

#3901 joora

joora
  • Member

  • 350 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 01 December 2012 - 18:04

It's great that team has the drivers, technical stuff and engine all sorted out at this time, they have lot of time to prepare for the next season.

They really do need a title sponsor, I hope that the companies will recognize the rich heritage of the team, and the positive movement they had this year, especially the Spain win.

On the technical note, they have now a two year experience running the mini gearbox and one year experience with the new Renault engine - I hope they will manage to make upgrades to the car which would make it faster around the track and close the gap to the leading teams in most of the races.

A lot of potential for next year... I hope the team and the drivers will take the advantage of that.

Advertisement

#3902 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 01 December 2012 - 20:30

They really do need a title sponsor, I hope that the companies will recognize the rich heritage of the team, and the positive movement they had this year, especially the Spain win.

After reading between the lines this interview, it seems to me like Williams aren't currently close to sign any new significant sponsorship deals apart from those companies which support Bottas.

I don't think a title sponsor is a necessity. The thing Williams need is to have more big partnerships that don't rely on driver choice. It's no problem that you don't have the title sponsor if you have 4 or 5 loyal sponsors that pay significant amount of money and don't push you to hire a specific driver. At the moment, the only partnership like this at Williams is Randstad. They need to have some more sponsors which pay at least around $5m per year or which bring free technological support (my dream is a manufacturer of electronic products like Samsung, but I've read that they are in negotiations with guess who... Lotus) and don't demand a specific driver in the racing seat in return, to join the front-runners on a consistent basis.

#3903 GustavoB

GustavoB
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:42

It seems that Lotus is getting all the new sponsors...
They are doing great on this department. It's a shame that Sauber/FI/Williams can get some good sponsors too.


#3904 joora

joora
  • Member

  • 350 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 02 December 2012 - 16:07

After reading between the lines this interview, it seems to me like Williams aren't currently close to sign any new significant sponsorship deals apart from those companies which support Bottas.

I don't think a title sponsor is a necessity. The thing Williams need is to have more big partnerships that don't rely on driver choice. It's no problem that you don't have the title sponsor if you have 4 or 5 loyal sponsors that pay significant amount of money and don't push you to hire a specific driver. At the moment, the only partnership like this at Williams is Randstad. They need to have some more sponsors which pay at least around $5m per year or which bring free technological support (my dream is a manufacturer of electronic products like Samsung, but I've read that they are in negotiations with guess who... Lotus) and don't demand a specific driver in the racing seat in return, to join the front-runners on a consistent basis.


I agree, but it would be a real shame watching the bare sidepods of the car for third year in a row...
Seems that Randstad is the only loyal sponsor of the team (I wonder what will happen with ORIS sponsorship next year). Their contract with PDVSA has turned out to be one of the smarter moves for the team, gaining a top-tier driver with such large backing (before any further discussions: in my view a top-tier driver is a GP winning driver which has won a GP not driving in one of the top three cars and in a race with normal weather circumstances and without large freak-accidents)

I think the largest problems with Williams is that they don't know how to make themselves or their drivers more marketable. It's not going to make them a better racing team, but unfortunately nowadays marketing potential is crucial for attracting more sponsorship.

#3905 SpeedRacer`

SpeedRacer`
  • Member

  • 787 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 02 December 2012 - 22:08

Don't be kidding.

Maldonado would have scored about 100-110 points if he could keep his pace and make no mistakes. And that was achieveable with plenty of technical problems (more than in Senna's car, some of them were in crucial races like Singapore).

In 2011 Rubens' speed was about the same with Pastor's. We can assume Pastor has improved a bit, but no way he has improved to that extent to dominate Rubens just like he did with Senna. Assuming Rubens' speed was just slightly off Pastor's and that he screwed about 2-3 races due to his mistakes (it doesn't seem to be more than his average in recent years), 70-80 points is what he would have achieved in slightly pessimistic case. But could be well more than 100 points as well if he had some luck with reliability and could benefit from Pastor's failures and brain fades in those races when Maldonado was competitive but scored no points.

I agree. If they'd signed Raikkonen I think they would've finished at least 5th, maybe 4th if Renault had signed a chump instead of Kimi.

I also agree with Rubens saying he helped Maldonado not to make many mistakes. Senna being so awful put no pressure at all on Pastor so he seemed to adopt a win or spin mentality. Even if he was crashing every race Senna was never going to overtake him. With a better teammate he may have been more circumspect.

#3906 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 05 December 2012 - 13:34

The news from Finland is that Wihuri is going to have big ads on Williams' car next season.

This is the company which support Bottas for around 10 years with the goal of reaching F1 with Valtteri. What's interesting: Antti Aarnio-Wihuri knows Sir Frank Williams for 30 years.

#3907 handel

handel
  • Member

  • 422 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 10 December 2012 - 13:17

Sorry didn't know if I should start a new vs thread, but this was a little bizarre to start with! Bottas looks very laid back - a new fans favourite maybe when/if he finds his feet?

Pastor Maldonado and Valtteri Bottas get to know eachother ahead of the 2013 F1 season
http://www.youtube.c...j9ODVhwojHPqAMA

Also, is there an S bomb at 2:42?

#3908 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 17 December 2012 - 18:31

I think it is bad news for williams team:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20762845

#3909 Vickyy

Vickyy
  • Member

  • 191 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 17 December 2012 - 18:31

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20762845

Ohh boy, big jolt to the team it seems.

#3910 SpeedFanatic

SpeedFanatic
  • Member

  • 354 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 17 December 2012 - 18:38

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104856 :confused:

#3911 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 17 December 2012 - 18:40

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104856 :confused:

Simply he said that earlier I think.

#3912 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:14

Big loss for Williams. I rate him very high, probably among top5 engineers in current F1. :cry:

My early bet is that Dominic Harlow would take his role, unless Williams want to attract a big name to replace Gillan.

#3913 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:18

Could not see this one coming. Where did he go? Red Buts?

#3914 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,879 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:20

Has there been a conflict of some sort? This just came out of nowhere.

#3915 Rikhart

Rikhart
  • Member

  • 581 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:30

It says on the article its to spend more time with family. I think F1 needs a lighter callendar, or to be more concentrated in europe, with less travelling around the globe.

#3916 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,744 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 19:39

It says on the article its to spend more time with family. I think F1 needs a lighter callendar, or to be more concentrated in europe, with less travelling around the globe.


He is an F1 engineer for god's sake. If he wants to spend more time with his family he should quit F1 for good. Saying that, 'I want to spend more time with my family' is standard code for 'I don't want to work with this team anymore' for whatever reason. Timstr is right. This smells of a conflict. Or he has been poached. The calendar is just fine. If someone is not up to it, quitting is always an option. Plus these guys get paid pretty well.


#3917 Francesc

Francesc
  • Member

  • 2,393 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:02

Big loss. :cry: I'm sure he's going to another team, Mercedes?? :down:

#3918 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,744 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:14

Big loss. :cry: I'm sure he's going to another team, Mercedes?? :down:


No. Ferrari is recruiting heavily though.


#3919 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,879 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:26

No. Ferrari is recruiting heavily though.

He has intimate knowledge of the Toyota wind tunnel where Ferrari is developing its cars. Would not surprise me if he ends up there.

Advertisement

#3920 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,879 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 17 December 2012 - 20:38

Peter Windsor ‏@PeterDWindsor
Williams departures: Mark Gillan, Tom McCullough (to Sauber) and Mark Barnett (to Force India). Some good replacements on the way, though.



#3921 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:15

Hard to believe so much guys are leaving the squad. ON the contrary if someone leaves to other garage, then he has no right stuff for Williams.... ....

I cannot imagine that Prof had serious conflict with the team.

Moving to Ferrari might be a good idea for the prof.

#3922 hogstar

hogstar
  • Member

  • 186 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:24

Big blow for Williams, 'spending more time with family' is just a stock answer while he is still under contract. Will undoubtedly go to a 'higher performing' team next season.

#3923 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 1,501 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:40

That is not a good news.

#3924 Little Leaf

Little Leaf
  • Member

  • 1,072 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:19

I do hope they have some decent replacements lined up, but Gillan will still be a big loss.

Hope Coughlan doesn't go too.

#3925 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:26

Hope Coughlan doesn't go too.

Williams is somehow safe with him. Any top team won't be looking at Coughlan after what he was involved with in 2007. Just for PR reason.

#3926 Tract1on

Tract1on
  • Member

  • 330 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:21

Williams seem to have an incredible knack for taking one step forward, quickly followed by two steps back.....
Is Sir Frank too much of a prickly character, does he rub people up the wrong way? Demand too much?
Of course we all love Frank.... but you have to wonder.
When you think about Williams since the early 90's onwards, lots and lots of questionable decisions

Edited by Tract1on, 18 December 2012 - 11:23.


#3927 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,744 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:10

Williams seem to have an incredible knack for taking one step forward, quickly followed by two steps back.....
Is Sir Frank too much of a prickly character, does he rub people up the wrong way? Demand too much?
Of course we all love Frank.... but you have to wonder.
When you think about Williams since the early 90's onwards, lots and lots of questionable decisions


Are you sure it is Sir Frank and not Wolff?


#3928 Tract1on

Tract1on
  • Member

  • 330 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:25

Wolff is Frank's puppet...... much like at Mclaren where Ron Dennis is still pulling the strings IMO
Frank doesnt seem to be very good at making sensible decisions, maybe its an old age thing

Are you sure it is Sir Frank and not Wolff?



#3929 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,963 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 18 December 2012 - 14:49

Sounds like big trouble at Williams. (german article)
http://www.motorspor...lliams-los.html

#3930 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,732 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:17

Rough translation?

#3931 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,744 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:25

Rough translation?



Well, it seems the "council of elders" at Williams don't like the way Woff is running the team? maybe you guys know more about this,

#3932 Latos

Latos
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 18 December 2012 - 16:33

Well, it seems the "council of elders" at Williams don't like the way Woff is running the team? maybe you guys know more about this,

And Tom McCullough saying how Senna had a great potential with 2013 tyres, and how he did extremely good in the second half of the season with the circumstances. Even Frank opted for Bruno for next year.

Edited by Latos, 18 December 2012 - 16:34.


#3933 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:07

Even Frank opted for Bruno for next year.

It seems strange. Frank opted for Bruno but they didn't keep Bruno for what reason? Is it possible that Wolff has already more to say than Frank at his own team? Strange and unlikely considering the fact that Williams has still more than 50% of shares in his team.

#3934 Latos

Latos
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:30

It seems strange. Frank opted for Bruno but they didn't keep Bruno for what reason? Is it possible that Wolff has already more to say than Frank at his own team? Strange and unlikely considering the fact that Williams has still more than 50% of shares in his team.


Hey, you can read that in german article, witch Karin Sturm wrote, and she has some good insight. From Tom(it's google translated): Why did he go, he made clear that "Because I can no longer endure, run like some things here - only the interests of individual, at least certainly not in the interest of the team." and "There is a difference, Friday morning to get a couple of quick laps, or go through with an entire weekend, especially in the race to act clever and constant, to save the tires.- About Bottas.

#3935 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:44

I can read only the google translation of the article because I don't know German. And it doesn't bring the answer to my question: why would Wolff be able to force Frank for a certain driver choice. I find it strange if there is some possibility.

About Karin Sturm, I've found that she has written a book about Ayrton Senna. May she be biased?

Even if so, McCullough quotes are worrying if true.

#3936 Latos

Latos
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:05

I can read only the google translation of the article because I don't know German. And it doesn't bring the answer to my question: why would Wolff be able to force Frank for a certain driver choice. I find it strange if there is some possibility.

About Karin Sturm, I've found that she has written a book about Ayrton Senna. May she be biased?

Even if so, McCullough quotes are worrying if true.

I don't know if Wolff forced Frank but, there are facts, and fact is Wolff will earn money if Bottas drives for Williams. Article even mentions that Bottas did not race in Gp2 because it would cost Toto money he didn't want to spend.
Tom was praised by Peter Windsor and Rob Wilson as a great race engineer, he is a racer and has great background so...don't know. all that stuff, i don't believe Wolff is the reason for teams good year.
Karin may be biased, but she didn't wrote fiction :)

Edited by Latos, 18 December 2012 - 18:08.


#3937 Francesc

Francesc
  • Member

  • 2,393 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:06

So Sir Frank wanted to keep Senna, the engineers thought that Bruno is better, but Wolff imposed his protege... :rolleyes:

I said it before, I don't like Wolff at all. Without Parr around, noone can stop him from doing things like giving his wife a role in the team...

#3938 GustavoB

GustavoB
  • Member

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:40

If Bottas cannot deliver Susie will be there!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl:

#3939 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,361 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:43

She is no different to the role de Villota played. She will see straight line tests at the very maximum.

Advertisement

#3940 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,744 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:17

So Sir Frank wanted to keep Senna, the engineers thought that Bruno is better, but Wolff imposed his protege... :rolleyes:

I said it before, I don't like Wolff at all. Without Parr around, noone can stop him from doing things like giving his wife a role in the team...


What if his protégé blitzes Maldonado next year? Does that justify his decision to replace Bruno Senna? I mean whatever the Williams engineers are saying, B. Senna hasn't exactly set the world on fire, has he? trying to argue his status as a driver with the money he brings to the team is kind of lame, really. maybe they don't like Wolff, and maybe they are right. But is it possible that hey aren't? I mean if this is the last breath of the Patrick Head fan club at Williams is that good or bad? (though I hardly think Gillan was part of that particular club). Not trying to stir up things, mind you, Honest questions.


#3941 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:20

Karin may be biased, but she didn't wrote fiction :)

Yes, she did write fiction. The problem is it's impossible ATM for me to verify to what extent.

This sentence (from google translate) is fiction for example. Williams don't lose that much because Bottas has managed to gather a substantial sponsorship package.

The nearly 15 million sponsorship that loses Williams now by exchanging Senna against Bottas must somehow absorb the team


So Sir Frank wanted to keep Senna, the engineers thought that Bruno is better, but Wolff imposed his protege... :rolleyes:

I said it before, I don't like Wolff at all. Without Parr around, noone can stop him from doing things like giving his wife a role in the team...

Can someone explain me the fact how in the world would be that possible? Toto is neither a main shareholder in the team nor investor who brings substantial amount of money. How in the world would be possible that main shareholder and team principal has different opinion, engineers agree with him and they're unable to get what they want because Toto wants something different? How would be that possible they are all so powerless against him and Toto does whatever he wants in such a important thing as a driver choice? How would be that possible?

#3942 SUPRAF1

SUPRAF1
  • Member

  • 365 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:39

I'm sure engineers would love Senna because he seems to be a pretty nice and laid back guy, so that's not really surprising. There are other drivers who probably push their engineers more and create a more unpleasant and strict working environment.

I think Williams should keep focused on the path they are on. Despite moving only 1 place up in the constructors, their car is good and if they keep developing and pushing they might move up another spot or two.

Of course it's difficult considering how well Force India and Sauber are performing. Really hard to make up ground when your competitor has little to no weakness.

#3943 Little Leaf

Little Leaf
  • Member

  • 1,072 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 20:53

Yes, she did write fiction. The problem is it's impossible ATM for me to verify to what extent.

This sentence (from google translate) is fiction for example. Williams don't lose that much because Bottas has managed to gather a substantial sponsorship package.



Can someone explain me the fact how in the world would be that possible? Toto is neither a main shareholder in the team nor investor who brings substantial amount of money. How in the world would be possible that main shareholder and team principal has different opinion, engineers agree with him and they're unable to get what they want because Toto wants something different? How would be that possible they are all so powerless against him and Toto does whatever he wants in such a important thing as a driver choice? How would be that possible?


Agreed. The article quotes Senna' s engineer so you would expect him to stick up for Bruno. At the end of the day Bruno' s qualifying let him down nearly all year, so let' s see how closer Bottas gets to Maldonado next year. Bruno didn' t do enough to retain his seat and is struggling to get one elsewhere despite his name and sponsorship.

No doubt about it Gillan leaving is a blow but we don' t know why yet or where he' s going. Let' s see who these "decent replacements" are too before writing the team off

#3944 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 18 December 2012 - 21:03

I'm sure engineers would love Senna because he seems to be a pretty nice and laid back guy, so that's not really surprising. There are other drivers who probably push their engineers more and create a more unpleasant and strict working environment.

I think Williams should keep focused on the path they are on. Despite moving only 1 place up in the constructors, their car is good and if they keep developing and pushing they might move up another spot or two.

Of course it's difficult considering how well Force India and Sauber are performing. Really hard to make up ground when your competitor has little to no weakness.


I recall reading that he was very good with helping on the technical side of things, and working with him reminded some of the guys very much of working with his late uncle.

#3945 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,153 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 18 December 2012 - 21:10

Can someone explain me the fact how in the world would be that possible? Toto is neither a main shareholder in the team nor investor who brings substantial amount of money. How in the world would be possible that main shareholder and team principal has different opinion, engineers agree with him and they're unable to get what they want because Toto wants something different? How would be that possible they are all so powerless against him and Toto does whatever he wants in such a important thing as a driver choice? How would be that possible?


Toto is being pegged as Frank's successor. For that reason alone, I could see Frank possibly deferring on some things in spite of having the ability to veto it. So the maybe 1/5th he owns of Williams will likely turn into something much greater down the road. Assuming the plan remains the same, Toto's going to wind up with a decent chunk of the shares I am sure. The other side is --and this is purely speculation on my part-- is that Toto might have told Frank he wanted Bottas in Bruno's seat, and if he didn't get it, he might walk while taking Bottas with him. I'm sure Bottas was always part of the future plan, but what I think is he is in the seat a year earlier than Frank wanted. Plus Frank may have been trying to hedge bets by seeing what Bruno would do with another year in case Maldonado had a replay of 2012 in 2013.

#3946 BetaVersion

BetaVersion
  • Member

  • 689 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 18 December 2012 - 22:36

Big loss. :cry: I'm sure he's going to another team, Mercedes?? :down:


don't worry too much. F1 is almost all about aerodynamics, these days, so his departure won't be a nightmare for the team.

Sommerville and his group seem to be pretty good, so I would be worried if Williams lost one of them, instead.;)

I also am quite skeptical with what was said, in that very unreliable german site, about B Senna. I can't see Frank and the others engineers(apart of Bruno's own) wanting to keep such an average driver like him


Don't trust in that site, fiction is not something rare over there.

Edited by BetaVersion, 18 December 2012 - 22:50.


#3947 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 22:51

don't worry too much. F1 is almost all about aerodynamics, these days, so his departure won't be a nightmare for the team.

Sommerville and his group seem to be pretty good, so I would be worried if Williams lost one of them, instead. ;)

AFAIK Gillan was head of aero in Toyota and he knows much about aerodynamics. He was certainly responsible for evaluating new aero parts on track and for correlation between wind tunnel and reality. Therefore his input on FW34's aerodynamics was quite significant I guess.

#3948 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 23:44

Gillan was very successfully methodical, which makes him very versatile IMHO.
In reality Toto took charge and well, so be it. Who gets money who decides... Blame formula one became money game at such level that there is no sanity in racing so to say. Toto overruling Frank...

#3949 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 2,670 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 19 December 2012 - 16:49

Steve Nielseon quits Caterham role. Is he the one to replace Gillan at Williams?

#3950 BetaVersion

BetaVersion
  • Member

  • 689 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 19 December 2012 - 22:37

AFAIK Gillan was head of aero in Toyota and he knows much about aerodynamics. He was certainly responsible for evaluating new aero parts on track and for correlation between wind tunnel and reality. Therefore his input on FW34's aerodynamics was quite significant I guess.


If that's the case, then Williams is indeed f$#@ed, especially if the Caterham guy is joining them, judging how incredibly poor the Malaysian team have developed compared to Marussia.

PS: Caterham have more money, more resources(Marussia used only CFD untill short ago), more engineers, lot's of Red Bull technology(gearbox, Renault engine,KERS....) and still weren't that considerably faster than Marussia