Jump to content


Photo

Trevor Taylor


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 island

island
  • Member

  • 276 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 09 February 2001 - 21:39

Well, another F5000 related topic...
In 1969, Taylor had a good chance to win the European
F5000 series. However, in the last round at Brands Hatch
Taylor and Peter Gethin, the other title contender,
collided with each other while lapping a backmarker.
Gethin became F5000 champion.
F5000 was sort of comeback for Trevor Taylor, I believe.
In the early 60s he was Jim Clark`s teammate in the
Lotus F1 team. Did he look better against Clark than
Mike Spence or Peter Arundell ?
What do you think ?

Advertisement

#2 fines

fines
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 09 February 2001 - 21:47

Without going to the record books I would rank them Arundell - Spence - Taylor, maybe Arundell - Taylor - Spence.

#3 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,395 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 10 February 2001 - 00:24

I think you should get extra credit for surviving.

#4 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,810 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 10 February 2001 - 08:27

Comparing Jim Clark's team-mates during the 1.5 litre F1 is an interesting question. I suppose Innes would be rated as the best - but since he hasn't been mentioned before, I won't mention him now!

Of the three, without looking anything up in books, I recall that Mike Spence won the '65 Race of Champions at Brands Hatch (I saw that one) but only after Dan Gurney had 'frightened' Jimmy off the track. Of course, the Brabham broke down and left the race to Spence; however, he did a very fine job that day. As, of course did Trevor Taylor at Spa in 1962. We all know how it ended, but it has always bugged me that Trevor was driving the Lotus 24, as there was only one 25 at that time (or 2, but kept for Jim.) Had Trevor been in a 25 that day, I suspect not Mairesse or maybe even Jimmy himself would have seen which way he went. A very brave driver, I think.

If memory serves, Trevor did win a race or two in South Africa, but they were Team Lotus formation finishes against weakish opposition; rarely if ever did he outdrive Jimmy - WHO DID? Pete Arundel was another competent #2 - but that is all. His accident at Reims severely curtailed his career - he was never the same after, if indeed he ever raced again, I can't remember.

So where does that leave me? Well, I think the pertinent point here is Indianapolis 1968. No-one will ever know what Mike Spence might have achieved had he lived. He would not have become a Jim Clark - ever, but I think his potential as a successful race driver was greater than either of the other two.

So I rate them Spence-Taylor-Arundel.

#5 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 5,989 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 10 February 2001 - 09:36

most drivers need 2-3 years in rand Prix racing before they are able to demonstrate their full potential. this was true, even of Jim Clark, who was probably the most naturally gifted of all drivers, in the sense that he had to work least hard at it. Unfortunately, all three drivers mentioned suffered accidents before they were able to demonstrate that potential: Taylor a series of accidents in 1963, Arundell at Reims in 1964 and Spence fatally at Indianapolis in 1968.

We will never know how good they might have been. Judging them aginst Jim Clark is unfair to any driver. My feeling is that they would have been good if unspectacular drivers, occassional race winners if not true greats. I wouldn't like to rank htem against each other, but Mike Spence's methodical approach would probably have been well suited to the more technical era that was evolving at the time of his death.



#6 ry6

ry6
  • Member

  • 521 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 10 February 2001 - 14:48

I saw both of Trevor Taylor's wins in South Africa.
The 1962 Cape GP at Killarney on New Years Day was the first. He was driving a Lotus 21. With 10 laps of the 60 lap race to go, Clark who was leading narrowly, spun, apparently because oil from a broken oil pipe had been thrown onto his back tyres. He lost 10 secs.
Then Jim Clark set a searing pace and set a new lap record on his way to catching Taylor, finishing only .6 secs behind. Jo Bonnier was 3rd in a Porsche and Masten Gregory in a Lotus 18M fourth.
Clark was truly in a class of his own, but Trevor Taylor was surely a worthy team mate.

The next win for Taylor was the 1962 Natal GP at Westmead near where I live.
The race was run in two heats of 22 laps each from which the "top 11" would go into a final of 33 laps.
Ritchie Ginther (BRM) won heat 1 from the BRM of Bruce Johnstone after Jim Clark (Lotus 25) stopped. Early on Ginther and Clark had been closely matched until lap 12.
Taylor won heat 2 after an early dice with Graham Hill where they switched the lead off and on until lap 17 when Taylor took control and pulled away to win reasonably comfortably

Clark, being a drawcard, was allowed to start the "final" from the back of the grid, but Taylor exploded away into the lead from Ginther and Johnstone.

With Ginther and Hill giving chase Taylor set a new lap record of 1 min 24.2 secs, and by lap 4,Clark was already 4th!

Clark soon passed the BRM's but Taylor seemd to be in control, although he was having gear trouble, and having to slip the clutch around the slow corners, as it was sticking in 3rd and 4th. Clark was not happy with the fuel injection on the Climax and the race ran out with Taylor a 6 second winner.

It was a great race to watch and while TT may not have been World Championship class he was a truly competent pilot, who had a lot of bad luck with bad cars later in his career, or just happened to be in the places where accidents seemd to happen.

Ranking wise and I do it reluctantly, having also watched Spence win the 1965 SAGP, in what we believed was a Lotus 33, I do believe that it was a case of Spence then Taylor.





#7 Rob29

Rob29
  • Member

  • 3,097 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 10 February 2001 - 15:21

Problem here is that Chapman always treated his #2 drivers badly.When Clark & Taylor were both in Formula Junior in 1960 they were pretty equal.
Trevor was my hero at that time,if only on acount of his yellow overalls when everyone else had boring pale blue.

#8 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,810 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 10 February 2001 - 15:37

I was a Taylor fan for exactly the same reason.

#9 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 6,982 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 06 January 2009 - 21:20

Posted Image
By giraffe138

Trevor Taylor complete with orange helmet in the Team Elite Surtees TS5 at Knicker Brook, Oulton Park, September 20th. 1969.

#10 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 10,810 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:10

Orange helmet?

#11 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 6,982 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:12

Posted ImageBy giraffe138

Trevor Taylor arrives back in the pits after winning the 1969 Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park in the Team Elite Lola T70 MK3B. The race was shortened due to the fatal accident to Paul Hawkins.

#12 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 6,982 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:18

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Orange helmet?


Well, orangy/yellow,(ish) sort of, Barry? ):

#13 sterling49

sterling49
  • Member

  • 10,809 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:19

I saw TT in a good many cars, the ones that stay in my mind were the lovely Team Elite 47, the F5000 car and the T70, although I would have seen him in the '64 GP, of which I recollect very little. The other cars were always well driven and I often wondered why he was "passed over" at Team Lotus, but as I saw, it was not only TT, but Innes, Arundell and others in later years.

#14 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 6,982 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:27

Originally posted by Giraffe
Posted ImageBy giraffe138

Trevor Taylor arrives back in the pits after winning the 1969 Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park in the Team Elite Lola T70 MK3B. The race was shortened due to the fatal accident to Paul Hawkins.


I forgot to mention the Beverley Hillbillies who were running the pits that day... :stoned:

#15 bradbury west

bradbury west
  • Member

  • 4,561 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:32

Originally posted by Rob29
Problem here is that Chapman always treated his #2 drivers badly.When Clark & Taylor were both in Formula Junior in 1960 they were pretty equal.
Trevor was my hero at that time,if only on acount of his yellow overalls when everyone else had boring pale blue.

Even more equal once Trevor had the 5 speed box half way through the season which JC had already been running. see interview in Vintage Racecar recently
And yellow helmet. I think Anita ran in similar colours
Roger Lund

#16 Kingsleyrob

Kingsleyrob
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 06 January 2009 - 22:51

I can't offer much more than has already been said regarding the ranking, but can't help wondering what TT got up to after he finished racing. And where is he now? He has just celebrated his 72nd birthday on Boxing Day. Any ideas or pics?

And Giraffe, we have already established on another thread that you were stalking me on the Kop at Anfield in the 60s, and at the British Grand Prix at Brands in 1970 - I see you were also in my footsteps at Oulton Park too at the '69 Tourist Trophy...;) That was a sad day. :(

Rob :wave:

#17 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 6,982 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 07 January 2009 - 07:09

Yes Rob, I was a Pit Marshal that day, and saw the whole thing unravel; it was a very messy day all round with a very sad ending. My mentor who took me to and from Oulton that day, Bob Downey, was flagging at Island and gave me the whole story, including the large scotch that was given to all the marshals who witnessed it at the de-brief by Dean Delamont & Basil Tye. Dave Winstanley was marshalling that day too, on Spectator Control. All the marshals for the meeting are listed in the programme, amazingly.
I believe Trevor Taylor is still resident in the Sheffield area, and is ok after a period of ill health, during which he had to, or at least is said to have sold all his trophies & memorabilia.
Do you attend any of the TNF Northern meeting's Rob? I haven't so far, but may take a chance on one.

#18 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 11,648 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:00

Originally posted by Giraffe


I forgot to mention the Beverley Hillbillies who were running the pits that day... :stoned:


You know looking at them you can hardly tell that they come from Yorkshire! :

#19 Kingsleyrob

Kingsleyrob
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:15

Originally posted by Giraffe

Do you attend any of the TNF Northern meeting's Rob? I haven't so far, but may take a chance on one.


Yes Giraffe, I am a regular, next one is on Wednesday 21st January see here...

http://forums.autosp...291#post3442291

They are a great bunch.

Sad that TT has had to sell his trophies. I've just been doing a bit more googling and found that he and Jim Clark were the last to have a 'shared' GP win, Mexico 1962, non championship. JC did the majority in what reports say was a great drive.

Rob :wave:

Advertisement

#20 drivers71

drivers71
  • Member

  • 297 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:07

I am not old enough to remember TT during his F1 appearances, but remember well his F5000 efforts with the Leda. Here he is at Mallory Park in June 1972, where he was willing to chat to this young admirer. Sorry to hear of his health problems, but hope he's recovered well.

Posted Image

#21 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 6,982 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 October 2011 - 14:28

The late Trevor Taylor (died 27th September 2010, aged 73) pictured here in the Team Elite Lotus Elite at the Montlherey 1000kms in 1962

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-10-29

Photo courtesy of Ron Bennett.

... and pictured again by myself leaving the cockpitoft the Team Elite Lola T70 Mk3b at the tragic 1969 Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park, having been declared the winner.

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-10-29

Edited by Giraffe, 29 October 2011 - 14:29.


#22 richie

richie
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 02 November 2011 - 22:55

Posted Image


I was lucky enough to get a phone call from Trevor Taylor 2/3 years after I made enquiries about the Aurora, pictured above, now looking worse for wear but not for sale. He said he very enjoyed his Formula 5000 racing.

#23 Ralliart

Ralliart
  • Member

  • 669 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:30

I've always had the impression that Jim Clark enjoyed having Trevor Taylor the most as a teammate. No knowledge, just an impression from books and photos. It wouldn't have hurt if Chapman had decided to retain Taylor rather than drop him. I think he was superior to Arundell and Spence. He did very well in F5000 and sports cars and I was happy to see that and very sorry to learn that he had passed.