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HRT 2012 Thread


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#1 senamic

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 14:05

Posted Image
News of the now: The Dawning of a New Era



Okay then, Williams has one, Ferrari has one, Red Bull has one, might as well give HRT one! The old thread has served us well, but as they seem to be a more stable prospect than we initially labelled them, HRT deserves the yearly thread treatment most other teams recieve.

Now, as HRT go into their third year, and second year of designing their own car following the Dallara debacle, the team finds itself at an important point in its history. Expectations are growing, and while they are still predicted to be behind the midfield for most of the races, many are viewing it as vital that HRT occasionally climbs out of Q1, as Lotus (to be Caterham in 2012) have done this season. While many things are uncertain going into 2012, the team are at a pivotal point, especially if Marussia are able to improve over the winter and challenge the midfield.

Feel free to post about all things to do with HRT's 2012 campaign here, including the team, the car and the drivers. DO NOT treat this as a VS thread, a flaming thread, or anything of the like. This thread isn't intended to be a love in, but that is not justification for brainless flaming of a team entering their third year in the sport.

2012 Results as of the Spanish GP

Car 22 (DLR)
DNQ
21
21
20
19

Car 23 (KAR)
DNQ
22
22
21
RET


Edited by senamic, 19 May 2012 - 06:11.


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#2 highdownforce

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 14:31

Ha!!
I've thought that the 2010 thread would be dragged for another year!

#3 senamic

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 14:36

At first I considered that possibility, after all, I think that all HRT fans (andinterested parties) have memories of that 170+ page thread... However, I think that it is high time they converted to the format that other team's threads have used for a long time...

#4 Wingcommander

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 14:47

Some thoughts:
- Facilities. Kolles' garage might be good enough for the race team, but i think they need better facilities to be able to perform as a proper F1 team.
- Design team. Who's designing the 2012 challenger? I think they should finally ditch the Dallara, and bring a completely new car to Melbourne.
- Financial backing. This needs to be sorted asap, because otherwise they just won't move forwards.

But i find it encouraging that for a change the media isn't shouting about the team's bankruptcy. Hopefully they will be well prepared for next year.

#5 dau

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 14:56

Some thoughts:
- Facilities. Kolles' garage might be good enough for the race team, but i think they need better facilities to be able to perform as a proper F1 team.
- Design team. Who's designing the 2012 challenger? I think they should finally ditch the Dallara, and bring a completely new car to Melbourne.
- Financial backing. This needs to be sorted asap, because otherwise they just won't move forwards.

But i find it encouraging that for a change the media isn't shouting about the team's bankruptcy. Hopefully they will be well prepared for next year.

I think they will stay in Germany and Jacky Eeckelaert will design next season's car. If they find someone to pay for it, that is - i haven't even heard rumours about new sponsors for the last few months now. I fear they'll just modify the F111 to 2012 regs.

Also, they really need to work on that logo.

Edited by dau, 18 November 2011 - 14:58.


#6 One

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 15:09

Are thy racing under Kolles on 2012? Is there a guarantee that the Kolles will still helm theHRT?

#7 Sanman59

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 15:16

Some thoughts:
- Facilities. Kolles' garage might be good enough for the race team, but i think they need better facilities to be able to perform as a proper F1 team.
- Design team. Who's designing the 2012 challenger? I think they should finally ditch the Dallara, and bring a completely new car to Melbourne.
- Financial backing. This needs to be sorted asap, because otherwise they just won't move forwards.

But i find it encouraging that for a change the media isn't shouting about the team's bankruptcy. Hopefully they will be well prepared for next year.


The team will move under one roof in a new factory in Valencia, although the design office will still be in Munich. Jacky Eeckelaert is to head up the design project of next year's HRT.

It is understood that Eeckelaert will work with new chief aerodynamicist Stephane Schosse, who has worked at Toyota, Sauber and Ligier in the past, out of the team's Munich technical operations base.

Eeckelaert has vast experience in Formula 1, having work with Jordan, Prost, Sauber, Honda and Super Aguri, before joining HRT last year after a spell in sportscars.

Both last year and this year, the team has been unable to test its new car before the first race of the year, but Saul Ruiz said on Friday in Abu Dhabi it is expecting the new car will be ready in time for the first group test in February.

GP2 Race Winner Dani Clos tested in Abu Dhabi and stated that "the human and technical group they have is good and next year's project looks very promising. They are changing their car, headquarters and a few other things which will make the team more stable and attractive. Without a doubt these changes are for the better. From what I have seen they seem very ambitious and they are there to make it".

The team has announced it has extended it technical deal with Williams for the supply of gearboxes until the end of the 2012 season and added that the new deal provides for a greater technical collaboration "that will contribute to improving the performance level." Williams will also supply HRT with KERS and its related technology for the first time next year.

Tonio Liuzzi believes that his contract will be extended to maintain development continuity to which he has been a major contributor. This however has not been confirmed. Helmut Marko has indicated RB may well extend their deal to run one of their young drivers in 2012 but this will not be confirmed until after Brazil. Other contenders for a seat in 2012 are also thought to include Dani Clos, Vallteri Bottas, Narain Karthikeyan and Giedo Van Garde

:smoking:



#8 senamic

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 17:06

Edited the OP with some information from this thread so far, so that hopefully we can cut down a little bit on the same question being asked multiple times (which seemed a bit of a problem in the last thread). Any speculation on sponsors for next year? Or livery rumours?

#9 cbbcisace

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 18:40

HRT want or have a Spanish/Latin Focus for sponsors next year.

The new '12 car will be called the F112.

As other people in the thread mentioned they are moving have moved to Valencia.

Tonio Liuzzi has mentioned that the tub of the new car is already "in a normal time frame for a full F1 team"

#10 Andrew Hope

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 19:07

I hope they keep Liuzzi.

Hispania have had the two best-looking chassis shapes the past few years, so I hope for 2012 they manage a decent livery to go along with it.

#11 Wingcommander

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 19:56

Helmut Marko has indicated RB may well extend their deal to run one of their young drivers in 2012 but this will not be confirmed until after Brazil.


I think it would be a good deal for both sides. Ofcourse depending on how much RB are willing to pay for the seat, but HRT get money and a fast if inexperienced driver. Atleast Ricciardo has impressed me this year and has done a good job for the team. Liuzzi is a solid and experienced driver and if there are no better candidates available then i think they should keep him.

Reading this thread it would seem that the team is finally starting to settle down and get on the job. As Marussia are rumoured not to have KERS next year, atleast HRT would have that advantage.

#12 cbbcisace

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 20:02

I think it would be a good deal for both sides. Ofcourse depending on how much RB are willing to pay for the seat, but HRT get money and a fast if inexperienced driver. Atleast Ricciardo has impressed me this year and has done a good job for the team. Liuzzi is a solid and experienced driver and if there are no better candidates available then i think they should keep him.

Reading this thread it would seem that the team is finally starting to settle down and get on the job. As Marussia are rumoured not to have KERS next year, atleast HRT would have that advantage.


Yes if HRT are doing in '12 what Team Lotus are doing this year that means they will have found 2.5 - 3s which would be some improvement, I can see HRT being ahead of Marussia next year again....

#13 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 06:21

To clarify certain inaccuracies in the posts. HRT's initial 2012 design was completed by Geoff Willis before he left. The technical department consists of a nexus of Jacky Eeckelaert as TD, Jose Gallego Seguro, Chiel Designer and Stephane Schlosse, chief aerodynamycist.
They are continuing with the Williams LG14 gearbox with KERS added to the transmission. So the project hinges around improved aerodymanics and KERS integration, a manageable task for a small outfit.
I don't know how realistic the continued Red Bull tie up is. All the briefings from Thesan Capital seems to hinge around a spanish driver and Clos' recent comments would suggest he's in pole position if he can raise the budget.

Edited by Petroltorque, 19 November 2011 - 06:22.


#14 cbbcisace

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:33

To clarify certain inaccuracies in the posts. HRT's initial 2012 design was completed by Geoff Willis before he left. The technical department consists of a nexus of Jacky Eeckelaert as TD, Jose Gallego Seguro, Chiel Designer and Stephane Schlosse, chief aerodynamycist.
They are continuing with the Williams LG14 gearbox with KERS added to the transmission. So the project hinges around improved aerodymanics and KERS integration, a manageable task for a small outfit.
I don't know how realistic the continued Red Bull tie up is. All the briefings from Thesan Capital seems to hinge around a spanish driver and Clos' recent comments would suggest he's in pole position if he can raise the budget.


Yes the Red Bull program won't happen next year, Thesan have mentioned ether having a Spanish or Latin driver next year.

Clos is in pole postion  ;) I think.

#15 dau

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:11

They'll really have KERS next season? So Marussia would be the only team without it?

#16 cbbcisace

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:18

They'll really have KERS next season? So Marussia would be the only team without it?


Yes HRT have KERS next year...

http://hispaniaracin...ews.php?nid=548

Marussia seem to be the only team without it. Glock spoke earlier in the year saying the 2012 Marussia wouldn't have it due to them needing to find more time than it was worth, but i believe every team needs it.


#17 Wingcommander

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:02

Doesn't KERS add more stress to the gearbox? Because of the increased torque especially on lower revs?

#18 Fastcake

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 12:31

About running another Red Bull driver, I would say that's quite likely if Red Bull want to give Vergne a run. A Spanish pay driver may be desirable by the owners, but with the money not always guaranteed - and without knowing how much they could bring, a steady, reliable source of money from Red Bull would probably be first choice.

#19 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 13:42

I really don't know about taking a Red Bull rookie driver. Its not a guaranteed revenue stream. What they really need is solid backing from a Spanish multinational. As for Vergne, the jury's out, a blind chimpanzee would be quick in an RB7.
With regards KERS HRT are running a more robust box than the Williams '11 unit.

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#20 midgrid

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 14:26

If Alguersuari is the fall guy at Toro Rosso (although it seems to be Buemi at the moment), then he would fit in well with these plans to make the team Spanish. I wonder if Cepsa would follow him over, or if the deal with STR carries over into next year?

#21 cbbcisace

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 14:43

If Alguersuari is the fall guy at Toro Rosso (although it seems to be Buemi at the moment), then he would fit in well with these plans to make the team Spanish. I wonder if Cepsa would follow him over, or if the deal with STR carries over into next year?


Yes always thought CEPSA would be a good sponsor for HRT and would have fit with the livery of this year.... Alguersuari could still be the fall guy at STR yet... lets wait and see.

#22 Fastcake

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 15:42

I really don't know about taking a Red Bull rookie driver. Its not a guaranteed revenue stream. What they really need is solid backing from a Spanish multinational. As for Vergne, the jury's out, a blind chimpanzee would be quick in an RB7.


It is guaranteed for as long as a Red Bull rookie is in the seat. Red Bull are not going to withhold payments like the paydrivers backers can do, nor have certain conditions that lets them pull out mid-season (was not that why Karthikeyan and Tata left?). All Red Bull want is a driver gaining experience in a car, and they'll be paying HRT for that until they call him up.

They've had two years without gaining any backing from Spanish companies, and the country is not in a financially healthy state right now. What HRT need is solid backing from anywhere they get it.

#23 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 16:56

What I mean is the Red Bull backing is adhoc, they might have it for one year and not the next. The presumed change in government after tomorrow's election may result in some regional government backing. They can sell it as an infrastructure project where moderate investment results in high tech jobs for qualified engineers.

#24 race addicted

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 16:58

Yes HRT have KERS next year...

http://hispaniaracin...ews.php?nid=548

Marussia seem to be the only team without it. Glock spoke earlier in the year saying the 2012 Marussia wouldn't have it due to them needing to find more time than it was worth, but i believe every team needs it.


...which just makes it all the more unbelieveably baffling how on earth Glock could commit to Marussia long term!! Was he drunk?!


#25 Petroltorque

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 17:33

I can see what's going to happen now, by mid season the Marussia engineers will say the lack of KERS was a mistake... but too late!

#26 cbbcisace

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 19:51

De La Rosa Intrested in HRT 2012 drive.


#27 Petroltorque

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 06:16

I'm sorry but the boat has past De La Rosa by. Experience is overrated, particularly if a driver is slow. The level of telemetry and simulation in modern F1 means the engineers effectively lead car setup.

#28 Baddoer

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:21

De La Rosa Intrested in HRT 2012 drive.

Joke. He wasn't interested in that car last winter and now all of the sudden he is.

#29 midgrid

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:08

I'm sorry but the boat has past De La Rosa by. Experience is overrated, particularly if a driver is slow. The level of telemetry and simulation in modern F1 means the engineers effectively lead car setup.


Indeed, plus having the experienced Liuzzi matched almost immediately by the rookie Ricciardo this year will probably make the team more likely to recruit youngsters with Red Bull backing or other financial support.


#30 Slackbladder

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:10

Joke. He wasn't interested in that car last winter and now all of the sudden he is.


@HRTF1Team
HRT F1 Team Pedro de la Rosa will drive for HRT F1 Team in 2012 http://fb.me/1gPUuJMqG

No joke...

#31 marcoferrari

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:12

If Alguersuari is the fall guy at Toro Rosso (although it seems to be Buemi at the moment), then he would fit in well with these plans to make the team Spanish. I wonder if Cepsa would follow him over, or if the deal with STR carries over into next year?


He is holding the best qualifying and race positions of Toro, so I highly doubt it... When it comes to Sunday perfomances, he has done enough this year...

#32 puxanando

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:14

YES :love: :up:

PEDRO DE LA ROSA SERÁ PILOTO DE HRT F1 TEAM EN EL 2012



#33 marcoferrari

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:14

I'm sorry but the boat has past De La Rosa by. Experience is overrated, particularly if a driver is slow. The level of telemetry and simulation in modern F1 means the engineers effectively lead car setup.


De La Rosa was evenly matched with Kobayashi in terms of qualifying pace in 2010... Their battle finished 7:7...

#34 midgrid

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:16

Indeed, plus having the experienced Liuzzi matched almost immediately by the rookie Ricciardo this year will probably make the team more likely to recruit youngsters with Red Bull backing or other financial support.


Two minutes! A new record! :lol:

#35 midgrid

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:17

He is holding the best qualifying and race positions of Toro, so I highly doubt it... When it comes to Sunday perfomances, he has done enough this year...


Read what I put in brackets. ;)


#36 purplejohn

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:22

The Spanish connection next year

#37 Mackey

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:22

Nice! Sure he´ll help to develop the team with his experience. And I don´t know how one can say he is slow, he matched the highly regarded Koba last year.


#38 dau

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:29

That's farewell for Liuzzi then, i guess.

#39 OSX

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:34

@HRTF1Team

"HRT F1 Team Pedro de la Rosa will drive for HRT F1 Team in 2012 http://fb.me/1gPUuJMqG"

http://twitter.com/#!/HRTF1Team/status...633691650985985

Good for Pedro and especially for the team! :up:

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#40 Gyan

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:38

Not another washed out driver who should have quit F1 long ago.

#41 ensign14

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:38

I'm sorry but the boat has past De La Rosa by.

Even worse, that boat was the Titanic.

#42 Prost1997T

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:39

Not another washed out driver who should have quit F1 long ago.


He was still testing for McLaren last time I checked. Also, the last full season he drove was 2002...

#43 Mr j

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:43

I'm happy for Pedro, he seems to be a truly nice guy. Good luck to him!

#44 puxanando

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:49

I'm happy for Pedro, he seems to be a truly nice guy. Good luck to him!


:up: SUERTE Pedro!


#45 senamic

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:50

Updated the OP, here is to hoping that the signing of de la Rosa bodes well for the team. Even as a fan, I will concede he is not the world's fastest driver, but as shown at Sauber he is a talented developer for a team that requires one at the time.

#46 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:51

At a team like HRT you'd rather have de la Rosa than some hot newcomer(and they never have money) because they'll struggle to learn in such a small team.

#47 lustigson

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:52

He was still testing for McLaren last time I checked. Also, the last full season he drove was 2002...

Sadly — lacking a better word — De la Rosa also raced in 2006, 2010 and 2011, otherwise the race for Jan Lammers' record of 3,745 days between Grand Prix starts would've been interesting.

(Lammers last competed in the 1982 Dutch Grand Prix on July 3, 1982 and subsequently in the 1992 Japanese Grand Prix on 25 October 1992.)

Edited by lustigson, 21 November 2011 - 15:54.


#48 senamic

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:56

Sadly — lacking a better word — De la Rosa also raced in 2006, 2010 and 2011, otherwise the race for Jan Lammers' record of 3,745 days between Grand Prix starts would've been interesting.

(Lammers last competed in the 1982 French Grand Prix on July 25, 1982 and subsequently in the 1992 Japanese Grand Prix on 25 October 1992.)

Well, now I have another statistic to bounce around in my head (the more you know :stoned: )

Honestly speaking, I wonder how Pedro will fair in the HRT... In 2006 when he replaced Montoya he was solid if unspectacular, scoring a podium in that dog of a McLaren. Probably didn't help the statisticians that his team mate was Raikkonen :p ... 2010 saw a well past his prime de la Rosa perform solidly, as did Canada 2011... I think that either we shall continue to see the solid developer that has made him a valuable test driver, or a second wind performance ala Liuzzi early this year...

#49 UPRC

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:58

I can't imagine de la Rosa accomplishing much on track, but at least he should be able to give good feedback for car development.

#50 dau

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 16:03

Yea, i think "solid" fits him perfectly. Safe pair of hands for HRT. Wonder who'll get the second seat now. Clos?