Jump to content


Photo

HRT 2012 Thread


  • Please log in to reply
2071 replies to this topic

#501 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 January 2012 - 16:33

we will see last years car at the tests i think.

Advertisement

#502 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 13 January 2012 - 16:43

If I got something I can publish I'll do. Not sure I'll be allowed to show the photos. Once again, it is just some one I'm in touch cos my job ...

What I know for sure is that this facility is quite well located as it is close to the international airport and less that 15 min from Cheste. It's just a two levels building being the ground floor the garage and the upper level the office. Quite simple. Around 750 square metres, little but probably enough for the intended purposes.

Edited by lemec, 13 January 2012 - 16:44.


#503 FTATRWeSaluteYou

FTATRWeSaluteYou
  • Member

  • 473 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 January 2012 - 16:45

That'd be great, thanks.

Found this at F1Technical: HRT denies having problems with the F112 and say they are still planning to run the new car at the Barcelona tests from Feb 21 to 24, maybe even earlier at the Jerez tests.


http://translate.goo...Jrfh0pgkK0d_J4w


Every year they say they will be at the tests with the new car and havent managed it yet.

If they arent aiming at the first test then in all likelihood this means the new car wont be ready before melbourne.

#504 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 13 January 2012 - 16:49

Every year "they" said that will never made the grid, that they will sell the entry, that they will be dead last, that they ...

#505 FTATRWeSaluteYou

FTATRWeSaluteYou
  • Member

  • 473 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 January 2012 - 16:52

Every year "they" said that will never made the grid, that they will sell the entry, that they will be dead last, that they ...


Im not saying that they will not make the grid. Im saying that its very unlikely they make any tests. Its been their track record. The fact that they are not aiming for any Jerez tests speaks volumes.

#506 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 13 January 2012 - 17:29

:rotfl:

in all seriousness van der Garde is looking most likely?

Whoever it is thsy will need to bring a budget enough to buy out Luizzi's contract. As I understand it he has a valid contract lodged with the CRB.

#507 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 13 January 2012 - 18:26

we will see last years car at the tests i think.


If I'm right HRT will have to design anew tub as the 2011 one doesn't meet the 2012 reg's am I right?

Im confident we will see the F112 at Barcelona at the latest.

#508 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 January 2012 - 18:28

If I'm right HRT will have to design anew tub as the 2011 one doesn't meet the 2012 reg's am I right?

Im confident we will see the F112 at Barcelona at the latest.


yeah i meant the Jerez tests, think the shape of the HRT might already be legal. not 100% sure though

#509 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 13 January 2012 - 18:31

yeah i meant the Jerez tests, think the shape of the HRT might already be legal. not 100% sure though


I think the nose is the style of most cars will have for 2012.

the tub I'm sure is not legal, i believe it needs to be different!

Edited by cbbcisace, 13 January 2012 - 18:31.


#510 remdev

remdev
  • Member

  • 120 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 January 2012 - 20:11

Whoever it is thsy will need to bring a budget enough to buy out Luizzi's contract. As I understand it he has a valid contract lodged with the CRB.


Liuzzi has a contract with former owner (Carabante). It's no more valid

In french :

"Je ne crois pas que ce soit dans l’intérêt du team ni sa volonté d’aligner un deuxième Espagnol. Ni un autre pilote en fin de carrière. Quant à Liuzzi, il n’a pas vraiment confirmé. L’Italien a déjà eu plusieurs chances. Il possède bien un contrat 2012, mais il serait caduc car signé avec l’ex-patron Carabante. Nous recherchons plutôt comme deuxième pilote un jeune aux dents longues," a confié Eeckelaert dans les colonnes de La Dernière Heure.

Edited by remdev, 13 January 2012 - 20:12.


#511 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:49

Liuzzi has a contract with former owner (Carabante). It's no more valid

In french :

"Je ne crois pas que ce soit dans l’intérêt du team ni sa volonté d’aligner un deuxième Espagnol. Ni un autre pilote en fin de carrière. Quant à Liuzzi, il n’a pas vraiment confirmé. L’Italien a déjà eu plusieurs chances. Il possède bien un contrat 2012, mais il serait caduc car signé avec l’ex-patron Carabante. Nous recherchons plutôt comme deuxième pilote un jeune aux dents longues," a confié Eeckelaert dans les colonnes de La Dernière Heure.

AFAIK with regards to contract law, if an organisation is taken over, legally all existing contracts have to be honoured by the new owners. One can't have unreasonable clauses in any contract under european law because if it comes to a dispute any tribunal will ignore any clause they see as preducial. Thats not to say any new owner can't terminate existing contracts. They would just need to pay off the remainder of the contract or face a claim for damages.

#512 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:04

AFAIK with regards to contract law, if an organisation is taken over, legally all existing contracts have to be honoured by the new owners. One can't have unreasonable clauses in any contract under european law because if it comes to a dispute any tribunal will ignore any clause they see as preducial. Thats not to say any new owner can't terminate existing contracts. They would just need to pay off the remainder of the contract or face a claim for damages.


I think i read a report in saying that Liuzzi could stay @ HRT if the could get enough team sponsorship.

It's not likely though, probably some compensation will be paid to him and unfortunately it seems van der Garde will get the role.

#513 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:21

AFAIK with regards to contract law, if an organisation is taken over, legally all existing contracts have to be honoured by the new owners. One can't have unreasonable clauses in any contract under european law because if it comes to a dispute any tribunal will ignore any clause they see as preducial. Thats not to say any new owner can't terminate existing contracts. They would just need to pay off the remainder of the contract or face a claim for damages.



That's true but it requires the contract being Luizzi-HRT instead of Luizzi-Carabante as JE is saying.

On the other, one of several clauses could allow HRT to break the contract, i.e. Luizzi does not brings a certain budget. There is nothing of "unreasonable" on this.

It's funny that most of you are assuming, by default, that it is HRT who have obligations to honour vs the driver forgetting that the opposite is more likely.

#514 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 January 2012 - 15:25

Just to put things into perspective Marussia will have the 2012 car ready for Barcelona not Jerez.



#515 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 15 January 2012 - 16:36

Im not saying that they will not make the grid. Im saying that its very unlikely they make any tests. Its been their track record. The fact that they are not aiming for any Jerez tests speaks volumes.


Not as loud.

skiping the first test is not a premiere, RBR did in 2010 ...

Edited by lemec, 15 January 2012 - 16:37.


#516 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 15 January 2012 - 16:38

Just to put things into perspective Marussia will have the 2012 car ready for Barcelona not Jerez.


And still without KERS

#517 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 January 2012 - 21:19

And still without KERS


http://translate.goo.....tories/102648

Dani Clos close to 2nd HRT seat with €8 mill sponsor fund.

#518 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 16 January 2012 - 19:47

OK so Liuzzi interviews states among things...

http://translate.goo...p;u=422race.com

- The F112 will be at the first test.
- The team want Spanish Sponsors
- He still has a valid contract for 2012 and 2013.
- He would accept a 3rd driver role if he needed too
- He accepts a pay driver may take the 2nd seat.

#519 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 17 January 2012 - 00:55

OK so Liuzzi interviews states among things...

http://translate.goo...p;u=422race.com

- The F112 will be at the first test.
- The team want Spanish Sponsors
- He still has a valid contract for 2012 and 2013.
- He would accept a 3rd driver role if he needed too
- He accepts a pay driver may take the 2nd seat.


Sounds better than last year for sure. I do hope to see them at Jerez in a couple of weeks, because that's where De La Rosa can do a lot of good work for them, getting the car shook down and into a decent testing program.

Advertisement

#520 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:18

I don't expect to see them at Jerez.

I know that yesterday there were no cars at all at Valencia. F111 are, one at Varilion-HRT showroom at Madrid and the other one is in Technical Facilities at Munich. F112 is still being building up.

In adition, yesterday, the new garage wasn't yet ready to work in the cars albeit it looked close to ...

#521 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 17 January 2012 - 14:49

Have they done the crash test already?

#522 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 17 January 2012 - 16:14

One would think not. As If they had passed all mandated FIA crash tests there would be good chance of making Jerez.

#523 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:06

adamcooperf1 Adam Cooper
HRT has a new partner in Ermestel, which will supply IT infrastructure and 'a disaster recovery system.' Insert your own punchline...



#524 Sanman59

Sanman59
  • Member

  • 268 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 19 January 2012 - 16:03


http://www1.skysport...llion-Euro-Man-


and so it rumbles on, but VDG appears confident :p

#525 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 19 January 2012 - 22:09

Couple of interesting tweets that Mark Gallagher (Ex Cosworth) has tweeted:-

“@MarkGallagher62: Fascinating day in London with meetings, then relaxing lunch at RAC Club. Interesting hearing #F1 news from several sources. Common themes.”

“@MarkGallagher62: Looks like two race drives to be settled with another veteran about to be disappointed & Liuzzi's point proven about worthless contracts”

"@MarkGallagher62: @GrandPrixDiary is looking good on the crystal ball front"

@GrandPrixDiary has been tweeting about VDG to HRT all day.



#526 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 08:18

Wasn't there a post that Clos was close to securing €8 million of funding? Most of the stories I've read state that Van Der Garde is only bringing €6 million. As the season approaches negotiators will inflate the amount of potential sponsorship.
If they're bringing similar amounts then Clos wins hands down for me. Van Der Garde was comprehensively outperformed by his less experienced team mate in GP2 last year. Pic looked woeful at the young drivers test.
In any event HRT need a clear indicator of their car's outright speed and De La Rosa is just not quick enough to provide that.

#527 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 20 January 2012 - 09:50

Just rumors, and you're wrong regarding Pedro.

One of the F111 is now in Valencia facilities and the Team has started working on it.

I don't know what are they doing. Could be just new team members trainning or preparing the car for Jerez test or both.

Apparently they have hired more personel from Barwa and at least another spanish eng with sound experience in F1; Albert Fabrega, ex-Super Aguri and former Team Manager of LMS for ePsilon in addition to his previous experience in the World Series.

Edited by lemec, 20 January 2012 - 09:55.


#528 RF1 fan

RF1 fan
  • Member

  • 400 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:14

All the members of HRT are coming from Epic Racing team.

#529 LewEngBridewell

LewEngBridewell
  • Member

  • 58 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:19

They won't be at Jerez, but I hope they manage to qualify for the first race this time. It's going to be hard to gauge where the team is, if they're using their old car to test, which is a shame, because a lot of eyes will be centred on how much progress the three youngest teams have made since last season.

#530 jamiegc

jamiegc
  • Member

  • 2,429 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:48

Critical delays in 2012 car

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/16649348.stm

#531 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:51

Critical delays in 2012 car

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/16649348.stm


I wouldnt say they where critical delays....,

#532 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:56

Just rumors, and you're wrong regarding Pedro.

One of the F111 is now in Valencia facilities and the Team has started working on it.

I don't know what are they doing. Could be just new team members trainning or preparing the car for Jerez test or both.

Apparently they have hired more personel from Barwa and at least another spanish eng with sound experience in F1; Albert Fabrega, ex-Super Aguri and former Team Manager of LMS for ePsilon in addition to his previous experience in the World Series.

I'm willing to bet you any amount of money De La Rosa will be poor substitute for a lead driver. As for preparing an F111, I would ask what for. I just don't see the FIA giving them an exemption to start the year with that car.

#533 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:02

I'm willing to bet you any amount of money De La Rosa will be poor substitute for a lead driver. As for preparing an F111, I would ask what for. I just don't see the FIA giving them an exemption to start the year with that car.


I think he means the F112.

#534 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,328 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:06

This team is not cut out for F1. Every year is the same they turn up at round 1 with out testing. You would of thouht by now they would of learned to get the car ready on time

#535 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:11

I wouldnt say they where critical delays....,

Actually if the car has not passed all the crash tests it is a critical delay. You can't complete the assembly without crash test certification. If a part fails it requires a redesign meaning further lost time. AFAIK FIA certified labs only crash test on certain days which means their timetable is determined by the labs.

#536 cbbcisace

cbbcisace
  • Member

  • 1,081 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:33

Actually if the car has not passed all the crash tests it is a critical delay. You can't complete the assembly without crash test certification. If a part fails it requires a redesign meaning further lost time. AFAIK FIA certified labs only crash test on certain days which means their timetable is determined by the labs.


Agreed on that, if the car has passed part of the tests which the BBC mention then it's not as If they have no car!!

#537 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:41

I'm willing to bet you any amount of money De La Rosa will be poor substitute for a lead driver. As for preparing an F111, I would ask what for. I just don't see the FIA giving them an exemption to start the year with that car.

From the BBC article:

[...]Pre-season testing begins with a four-day test in Jerez in southern Spain starting on 7 February, when HRT plan to use their 2011 car.[...]



#538 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:08

Leaves me wondering what they are testing besides tyres?

#539 jamiegc

jamiegc
  • Member

  • 2,429 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:10

I'm willing to bet you any amount of money De La Rosa will be poor substitute for a lead driver. As for preparing an F111, I would ask what for. I just don't see the FIA giving them an exemption to start the year with that car.


The only way they would get exemption to race the 2011 car in 2012 is on a non-championship basis. In which case its pretty pointless spending the money to turn up and run an ineligible car except in the hope of doing a bit of corporate hospitality.

Advertisement

#540 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:13

Leaves me wondering what they are testing besides tyres?

Testing tyres isn't enough for you?

#541 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:14

All the members of HRT are coming from Epic Racing team.


No.

Far away form that.

Of course are people arriving from ePsilon/Epic but also from Barwa-Addax or McLaren (Jose Gallego Segura) ...


They won't be at Jerez ...



They will but with the F111

Edited by lemec, 20 January 2012 - 13:16.


#542 RF1 fan

RF1 fan
  • Member

  • 400 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:16

No.

Far away form that.

Of course are people arriving from ePsilon/Epic but also from Barwa-Addax or McLaren (Jose Gallego Segura) ...


of course :blush:

i was saying that all members of epic come to hrt :drunk:

#543 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:40

I'm willing to bet you any amount of money De La Rosa will be poor substitute for a lead driver.


We should first to define the criteria to make the comparison. Number of points? he matched Kimi on 2006. Qualy? he matched Koba in 2010 and if he didn't in race was first cos the crapped C29 then cos Sutil ruining his race in Silverstone, apart from that Koba finished ahead on Belgium and Behind in Hungary or any of then was out. Yeah Turkey. I'm not forgetting it ;) In addition ... How are we to estimate his development work?


As for preparing an F111, I would ask what for. I just don't see the FIA giving them an exemption to start the year with that car.


Not for race it ... just for Jerez tests.

The Team is aiming to unveil the F112 in first Barcelona test and going to Jerez with a version of the F111.

Edited by lemec, 20 January 2012 - 13:43.


#544 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 20 January 2012 - 13:48

Leaves me wondering what they are testing besides tyres?



The new personel need to work on real context ...

new providers material ...

Edited by lemec, 20 January 2012 - 13:49.


#545 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 14:33

We should first to define the criteria to make the comparison. Number of points? he matched Kimi on 2006. Qualy? he matched Koba in 2010 and if he didn't in race was first cos the crapped C29 then cos Sutil ruining his race in Silverstone, apart from that Koba finished ahead on Belgium and Behind in Hungary or any of then was out. Yeah Turkey. I'm not forgetting it ;) In addition ... How are we to estimate his development work?




Not for race it ... just for Jerez tests.

The Team is aiming to unveil the F112 in first Barcelona test and going to Jerez with a version of the F111.

I don't know what results you're looking at but Raikkonen scored 3 times as many points as De la Rosa in 2006. On average lap time he was giving away at least half a second a lap in the race. That equates to a pitstop over a race distance. Kobayashi outscored him 5 to 1 in 2010 and he was a rooki. As for development, I've never heard of a driver developping a car, when last checked that was down to the deisgner and race engineers. The guy is a trundler. I'd say he'd done an adequate job if he qualified ahead of one of the Marussia's. Beating his team mate would depend on who he was. He would not beat Clos and should beat Van Der Garde.

#546 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 20 January 2012 - 15:08

I don't know what results you're looking at but Raikkonen scored 3 times as many points as De la Rosa in 2006.


... take the six races they race alongside, they had exactly the same points. The last two GPs due to the engine freeze can't be taking into account as well it can't the first part of the season when Pedro was on the wall and Juan Pablo at the wheel.

Kobayashi outscored him 5 to 1 in 2010 and he was a rooki.


I said "he didn't in race" and I said why ... and again you can't take into accout the last five races which in additon were those when the car better performed.

As for development, I've never heard of a driver developping a car, when last checked that was down to the deisgner and race engineers.



Always the same poor and biased allegation.

No one say that the driver develop the car but that it makes a huge difference having a driver able to help the engineers or not. Just saying "it doesn't work" doesn't help to make the things evolve on the proper direction, giving wrong indications it's even worst as you can entrain your team into a disaster just cos you're usseless when analyzing the car's behavior.



#547 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 15:59

Ironic that you would suggest that the Sauber car improved AFTER De La Rosa got the sack, but we digress...The time when F1 teams relied solely on the driver's feedback have long gone. Modern computing power means that its Simulation and telemetry that drives the development, that way you don't get driver bias creating errors.
I don't know what levels of simulation are available at HRT, but if they are going to be reliant on De La Rosa's feedback one would have to say they're deficient. I maintain the selection of De La Rosa doessn't make sense as he's not quick and he doesn't bring funding.

Edited by Petroltorque, 20 January 2012 - 15:59.


#548 lemec

lemec
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 20 January 2012 - 16:16

Ironic that you would suggest that the Sauber car improved AFTER De La Rosa got the sack ...


I'm not sure whether you don't know a damn about this business or it's just that you dislike Pedro so much that leads you to write this sort of no sense instead of follow the line of the previous arguments ...

The time when F1 teams relied solely on the driver's feedback have long gone


...except for distorting them ...

Modern computing power means that its Simulation and telemetry that drives the development, that way you don't get driver bias creating errors.


... but exposing your ignorance about what a model or a simulation is and who built it and how are they exploited ...



#549 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 20 January 2012 - 16:24

[...] He would not beat Clos and should beat Van Der Garde.

You really rate Close that much higher than VdG?

#550 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 20 January 2012 - 17:01

I'm not sure whether you don't know a damn about this business or it's just that you dislike Pedro so much that leads you to write this sort of no sense instead of follow the line of the previous arguments ...



...except for distorting them ...



... but exposing your ignorance about what a model or a simulation is and who built it and how are they exploited ...

With the greatest of respect I started following F1 during my first year at Uni back in 1982. I was introduced to the sport by an engineering coleague who was on secondment with Williams. So I'd like to think I have a fair idea of design modelling and simulation integration. But the proof of the pudding will be in the performance ( or rather lack their of) De la Rosa will show. One won't have long to see that I will be prooven right.

Edited by Petroltorque, 20 January 2012 - 17:02.