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HRT 2012 Thread


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#801 Showty

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:38

No news could very well mean bad news.

Hopefully we´ll know something by the end of the day.

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#802 lemec

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:10

... don't give too much credit to Joe ;)

anyway ... here what my mates from DLR forum are able to do


Posted Image



:clap:



this was on Thuesday

Edited by lemec, 09 February 2012 - 14:12.


#803 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 19:40

Reminds me of the Sunseeker logo


To me the Logo reminds me of this:
Posted Image
Posted Image

just need the circle in the middle.

#804 understeer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 19:54

Does anyone know for sure the crash test failed ? If it is minor could they still target for 2nd test ?

#805 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 19:59

Does anyone know for sure the crash test failed ? If it is minor could they still target for 2nd test ?


If the chassis has passed that's surely good news?

Just the role hoop and nose to get redesigned...

#806 just me again

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:09

Sorry for being pessimistic, but i think they have to reinforce and crash test the second chassis build, wich would be the one wich should be used in the test sessions.
There was no need for a third chassis before Australia, so who know when they have planned delivery on that one??. Maybe this will set them back to no pre season testing at all!! I sure hope not

Bjørn

#807 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:13

Sorry for being pessimistic, but i think they have to reinforce and crash test the second chassis build, wich would be the one wich should be used in the test sessions.
There was no need for a third chassis before Australia, so who know when they have planned delivery on that one??. Maybe this will set them back to no pre season testing at all!! I sure hope not

Bjørn


If its just the roll hoop and the nose thats need manufacture thats a short lead time, it would have been a problem if the chassis failed...

#808 Petroltorque

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:42

The fact that the chassis passed means they can start assembling the chassis components. The roll hoop and nose are modular. The trick is for the components to withstand the deforming forces using the least amount of materials. Difficult to predict as materials undergoing failure become inelastic.

Edited by Petroltorque, 09 February 2012 - 20:44.


#809 Iseriouslyhadenough

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:47

Is it allowed to drive a not-yet-fully-FIA-crashtest-passed car at a test ("Media test" at least) or not at all? Given the weird attachments that are sometimes spotted attached to some cars, it makes me wonder..

#810 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:48

The fact that the chassis passed means they can start assembling the chassis components. The roll hoop and nose are modular. The trick is for the components to withstand the deforming forces using the least amount of materials. Difficult to predict as materials undergoing failure become inelastic.


Petrol thanks for the info, HRT want to re test the parts next week. So HRT having the chassis ready is quite good news really apart from the pessimism :)

#811 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 21:24

HRTF1Team: 14 crash tests passed. Chasis approved but the 2 that failed (by minor margin) prevent us to have the car ready for BCN1 test

#812 lemec

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 21:31

That's sad but not a drama. The chassis is OK.

Jose Gallego, on facebook, was less pesimistic but Maria, on twitter is much more definitive.

I guess that Carbo Tech guys should pay back some percentage of the contract :lol:

#813 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 21:34

That's sad but not a drama. The chassis is OK.

Jose Gallego, on facebook, was less pesimistic but Maria, on twitter is much more definitive.

I guess that Carbo Tech guys should pay back some percentage of the contract :lol:


Crash tests are being failed all the time, the chassis is passed which is the main thing :up:

#814 Bloggsworth

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 22:27

It seems that they are quitting F1 and moving into bullfighting, their latest Suit of Lights failed its crash test. Why move far from the greatest knowledge centre in F1 - Madrid is to F1 what Norwich is to the Tour de France...

#815 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 22:30

It seems that they are quitting F1 and moving into bullfighting, their latest Suit of Lights failed its crash test. Why move far from the greatest knowledge centre in F1 - Madrid is to F1 what Norwich is to the Tour de France...


Your right, its a big risk to move to Madrid, lets see how it pays off...

#816 lemec

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 23:06

It seems that they are quitting F1 and moving into bullfighting, their latest Suit of Lights failed its crash test. Why move far from the greatest knowledge centre in F1 - Madrid is to F1 what Norwich is to the Tour de France...



cos they're not interested in being another English team, their aim is to be a Spanish team.

I know that this is a short of heresy for certain people that think that F1 is a private club "for english men only" and that if HRT arrive to stablish a stable structure it would mean breaking a dogma. And that hurts.

#817 showtime

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 23:33

It seems that they are quitting F1 and moving into bullfighting, their latest Suit of Lights failed its crash test. Why move far from the greatest knowledge centre in F1 - Madrid is to F1 what Norwich is to the Tour de France...


Sad post. Btw Maranello is as far from England as Madrid, I heard some cars from there have won a few races.

#818 dau

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:50

Sad post. Btw Maranello is as far from England as Madrid, I heard some cars from there have won a few races.

That's not really comparable. Working for a living legend like Ferrari is a dream for many, so they don't have that much problems attracting personnel from everywhere. Toyota threw truckloads of money at people to convince them of coming to Cologne. HRT can't do either, so it will be harder for them to get experienced F1 personnel than it would be for a team based in the UK.

Doesn't mean it cannot work, though. There's always domestic engineers, even if they don't have experience in F1. It does kind of work for Sauber for example.

Edited by dau, 10 February 2012 - 11:52.


#819 Petroltorque

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:21

Indeed comparing HRT to Ferrari is misguided. Their targets are disparate. HRT's target is to get on the bak of the midfield. Thats going to cost less and require less personnel that winning a championship. Indeed if HRT can convince one experienced Designer/ TD to move then the can build from top down.

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#820 lemec

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 14:31

Doesn't mean it cannot work, though. There's always domestic engineers, even if they don't have experience in F1. It does kind of work for Sauber for example.



Most of the personel they need don't need any king of experience in F1 or even in motorsport. An hydraulic or electronic system is the same thing in a F1 or in any other sophisticated machinery, and F1 is not the pinacle of sophistication.

BUT ... they'll need few top engineers to make the difference.

Probably their current status (in terms of personel) it's good enough for this year goals but obviously not for the long term.

#821 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 20:12

An hydraulic or electronic system is the same thing in a F1 or in any other sophisticated machinery, and F1 is not the pinacle of sophistication.


So True Lemec it might have been once but it’s slowly getting choked off by too many new rules and restrictions and the establishment getting old. This is why smart companies opt for redundancies and restructuring, it might be harsh but it gets rid of the dead weight and the rigidity in a peoples thinking. People resist change. That’s why teams like HRT (& Virgin) are important they bring change and a fresh approach. I bet most of the time spent by engineers in F1 is not spent building and designing cars but trying to conform to layers of rules and red tape. I am sure if there was in season testing then Virgin might have been more successful with their CFD only approach.

#822 TF110

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 21:16

I just hope they use a low nose like last year. Stick what with you know, make it work. Last year's car looks good in all white with the gold as shown in testing this week. Add a little black to it and I think it'll be a looker. I was hoping they would seal a deal with working with Toyota, but I guess they just didn't have the funds or they were too far from Spain? Not sure but I look forward to seeing their 2012 challenger.

#823 cbbcisace

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 21:24

I just hope they use a low nose like last year. Stick what with you know, make it work. Last year's car looks good in all white with the gold as shown in testing this week. Add a little black to it and I think it'll be a looker. I was hoping they would seal a deal with working with Toyota, but I guess they just didn't have the funds or they were too far from Spain? Not sure but I look forward to seeing their 2012 challenger.


HRT have a few ex Toyota guys working for them in Germany, wonder if we will see any influences on the F112 from them

PDLR has said the new car will have a stepped nose.

Edited by cbbcisace, 10 February 2012 - 21:24.


#824 lemec

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 21:25

I heard Pedro telling that the nose of the F112 has also a short of step but that it's closer to McLaren than to Ferrari's one.

Edited by lemec, 10 February 2012 - 21:28.


#825 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:04

I heard Pedro telling that the nose of the F112 has also a short of step but that it's closer to McLaren than to Ferrari's one.


Do you know if HRT will turn up at the next test with the F111? think it will give a good impression if they did anyway.

#826 lemec

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:17

no clue, but should be fair giving Narain his chance, too.

BTW, it seems that the deal for Caja Magica facilities is by five years and a total amount of 1.7 - 1.8 millions.

#827 Dolph

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:22

cos they're not interested in being another English team, their aim is to be a Spanish team.

I know that this is a short of heresy for certain people that think that F1 is a private club "for english men only" and that if HRT arrive to stablish a stable structure it would mean breaking a dogma. And that hurts.


You are so twirled up in you noationality complex that its effecting your ability to think logically.

#828 Dolph

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:24

Sad post. Btw Maranello is as far from England as Madrid, I heard some cars from there have won a few races.


Madrid is no Maranello in the racing world, my friend :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#829 lemec

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:32

You are so twirled up in you noationality complex that its effecting your ability to think logically.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

That's not an argument just a shabby template.


oh! sorry ... I forgot one ...

:rotfl:

Edited by lemec, 11 February 2012 - 19:34.


#830 showtime

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:33

Madrid is no Maranello in the racing world, my friend :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Maranello was nothing when Ferrari started plus new technologies make things much easier, you can have an engineer in London and have meetings and share documents like he was in Madrid. You have also STR surviving far from the UK and that doesn't seem a problem. Really, where the team is based is at the bottom of the list of things that could make the team improve.

#831 showtime

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 19:40

You are so twirled up in you noationality complex that its effecting your ability to think logically.


But he has a point, they are following a different path and who knows, maybe they end being successful in the future without having their HQ in the UK. Since they are the back makers they are the ones with less to loose from trying something different. I would prefer more diversity in HQ, engineers and mechanics nationalities.

#832 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 13:09

But he has a point, they are following a different path and who knows, maybe they end being successful in the future without having their HQ in the UK. Since they are the back makers they are the ones with less to loose from trying something different. I would prefer more diversity in HQ, engineers and mechanics nationalities.


I truly believe that it should not take as much resources and money to build a modern F1 car as is done by the bigger teams. Technology should make things easier as well as cheaper. I think that was part of the reason why the FIA wanted new teams on the budget cap. Every one likes to say how technically advanced F1 is but how come important engineering & technological centers are excluded from the sport (Japan, Korea, USA and all). Maybe part of the reason why F1 is such an expensive sport is because labour is expensive in Germany and the UK. I know this subject belongs in a different thread but maybe this is the reason why people cant accept the different approach HRT are taking and why no can believe they will make it to the next season. I think subcontracting and outsourcing is an acceptable approach. Spain is not known for Engineering and technology but its not as if they are completely void of skilled personnel.

#833 lambylamby

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 16:59

They should sell to VW and become 'SEAT', now that they're based in Spain...

#834 lemec

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 19:39

blah, blah, blah ...
:down:


#835 lambylamby

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 22:28

blah, blah, blah ...
:down:

Rubens.

#836 cbbcisace

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 22:36

They should sell to VW and become 'SEAT', now that they're based in Spain...


It could be an option in the future... lets just concentrate on this year though...

#837 Creepy

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:01

I truly believe that it should not take as much resources and money to build a modern F1 car as is done by the bigger teams. Technology should make things easier as well as cheaper. I think that was part of the reason why the FIA wanted new teams on the budget cap. Every one likes to say how technically advanced F1 is but how come important engineering & technological centers are excluded from the sport (Japan, Korea, USA and all). Maybe part of the reason why F1 is such an expensive sport is because labour is expensive in Germany and the UK. I know this subject belongs in a different thread but maybe this is the reason why people cant accept the different approach HRT are taking and why no can believe they will make it to the next season. I think subcontracting and outsourcing is an acceptable approach. Spain is not known for Engineering and technology but its not as if they are completely void of skilled personnel.



Of course not, just check Spanish companies like CAF, Talgo, Endesa... Maybe one of your local subway's trains are Spanish. :wave:

I think suggesting a team cannot improve or get successful because of its nationality or where settled is a wrong assumption IMO. :) With solid plans and presence I think they may surprise many here... That of course if they go that way regarding presence and solid plans.

Edited by Creepy, 13 February 2012 - 04:15.


#838 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:07

Dani Clos will be HRT's test driver http://www.hrtf1team...de-pruebas.html

#839 Petroltorque

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:56

Dani Clos will be HRT's test driver http://www.hrtf1team...de-pruebas.html

A good choice I feel. The guy showed a good turn of pace at the young drivers test outshining Pic who had superior machinery ( yes I know they could have been running different programs). It also might provide leverage against Spanish companies to provide some sponsorship.

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#840 lemec

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:07

I'm assuming that he's already coming with his own bag of money ... that's the only point where this guy win vs Soucek ;)

Edited by lemec, 13 February 2012 - 10:07.


#841 Showty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:33

I'm assuming that he's already coming with his own bag of money ... that's the only point where this guy win vs Soucek ;)


I don´t think the 3rd driver was about the money, surely there are more drivers out there with a better sponsors package than Clos.

Soucek is nowhere to be found now, he´s working with his safe driving school and the last proper competition he was in was the Superleague Formula with poor results, he end up very dissapointed with his experience in Virgin as test driver, he finally couldn´t drive the car.

Although Clos had an irregular season in GP2 he´s more of a safe bet at this point and perhaps he can develop into a proper F1 driver and drive for HRT in a couple of years once Pedro is gone.

Right now, Clos is perhaps the most logical choice.

Edited by Showty, 13 February 2012 - 12:41.


#842 lemec

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:53

Clos GP2 session was not irregular, on the contrary, was regularly average. Soucek, though, is F2 champion. Today is nowhere just because his lack of budget.

Clos is Luis protegee, that's clear and since the first day the team said that he will, some how, invoulved in the project ... but not as a reserve driver.

What I wonder, now, is whether Clos become now the reserve driver cos he got enough funding or because no one else did.

:rolleyes:

#843 Showty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:24

Clos GP2 session was not irregular, on the contrary, was regularly average. Soucek, though, is F2 champion. Today is nowhere just because his lack of budget.

Clos is Luis protegee, that's clear and since the first day the team said that he will, some how, invoulved in the project ... but not as a reserve driver.

What I wonder, now, is whether Clos become now the reserve driver cos he got enough funding or because no one else did.

:rolleyes:


If Andy is missing something surely money won´t be in the list, he bought himself a test drive in Virgin last year, he could have tryied this time, we don´t know if there was really some contacts or not, but i can´t remember he was ever mentioned for the HRT 2012 test drive.

About Dani, as i said, he´s the closer to F1 spanish young driver out there, if they want one more spanish driver in there he was the logical option, there might be some more talented drivers like Merhi but their time is not now.

#844 lemec

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:24

If Andy is missing something surely money won´t be in the list, he bought himself a test drive in Virgin last year, he could have tryied this time, we don´t know if there was really some contacts or not, but i can´t remember he was ever mentioned for the HRT 2012 test drive.

About Dani, as i said, he´s the closer to F1 spanish young driver out there, if they want one more spanish driver in there he was the logical option, there might be some more talented drivers like Merhi but their time is not now.



Money is in the list. The fact that you once bought something doesn't mean you can do it again.

I don't see any sportive reason to say that the timing is worse for Merhi than for Clos. The one who is called to take the wheel in a couple of years and not now is Carlos Sainz Jr all the others could do it from now, and of course Jaime could change his mind next season.

#845 showtime

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 17:56

From the words of Dani Clos I get that the team will be in Barcelona next week, don't know if Dani or Narain will be driving.

#846 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 20:05

From the words of Dani Clos I get that the team will be in Barcelona next week, don't know if Dani or Narain will be driving.


If HRT want to be taken seriously as a team they have to be there, at least to give their drivers some practice.

#847 cbbcisace

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 20:45

If HRT want to be taken seriously as a team they have to be there, at least to give their drivers some practice.


Some HRT News:-

"@ Formulaf1: It seems that ex Minardi and Toro Rosso Gabriele Tredozi be the new Technical Director of HRT. Confirmation is expected in BCN test # F1 "

Wonder if that means he will be based in Madrid from May?

Edited by cbbcisace, 15 February 2012 - 20:48.


#848 Petroltorque

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:15

Tredozi worked on the Dallara car. I suspect this years car will have a basis of the unraced Toyota TF110 simply because a lot of the HRT design staff was sourced from Cologne.

Edited by Petroltorque, 16 February 2012 - 08:32.


#849 lemec

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:49

I'm not sure whether the dallara connection is relevant for this issue but the fact that Tredozi and Luis Perez-Sala worked toghether in Minardi, in addition the F112 is supossed to be designed by Willis & White.

#850 Mastah

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 13:05

The won't test next week:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97547

2011 all over again :well:.