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#901 Petroltorque

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:54

Andrew Benson has received confirmation from HRT that the image on the website is the F111.
One has to hope HRT start running KERS from the first test. The system integration can be problematical and it. Would be stupid to introduce it for the first time at a race weekend. The other reason for running it is to compensate for increased fuel load. For the same power output of the Renault RS27 the Cosworth carries 20kg more fuel. That equates to a deficit of 6 tenths a lap.

Edited by Petroltorque, 21 February 2012 - 15:57.


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#902 showtime

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 15:59

Andrew Benson has received confirmation from HRT that the image on the website is the F111.
One has to hope HRT start running KERS from the first test. The system integration can be problematical and it. Would be stupid to introduce it for the first time at a race weekend. The other reason for running it is to compensate for increased fuel load. For the same power output of the Renault RS27 the Cosworth carries 20kg more fuel. That equates to a deficit of 6 tenths a lap.


They are not going to use KERS this season and it seems the right choice, KERS brings a lot of problems and not so much gain for a small team.

#903 dau

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:03

Andrew Benson has received confirmation from HRT that the image on the website is the F111.[...]

Hmm. Maybe some weird early-spec rendering then, because there are some difference to the F111-pic from Valencia i posted. But i'm glad that's not the F112, would've been disappointing.


#904 Francesc

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:06

They are not going to use KERS this season and it seems the right choice, KERS brings a lot of problems and not so much gain for a small team.


In November it was confirmed that they would be getting Williams KERS.

Edited by Francesc, 21 February 2012 - 16:07.


#905 Wingcommander

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:09

They are not going to use KERS this season and it seems the right choice, KERS brings a lot of problems and not so much gain for a small team.


I kind of remember the HRT fanclub having a very different opinion on that when Marussia said that they wouldn't run KERS. I thought KERS was supposed to be HRT's secret weapon against the not-anymore-Virgins.

#906 showtime

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:13

I kind of remember the HRT fanclub having a very different opinion on that when Marussia said that they wouldn't run KERS. I thought KERS was supposed to be HRT's secret weapon against the not-anymore-Virgins.


That's my opinion, not the opinion of the HRT fans.

#907 TeamSideways

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:16

i wonder how this thread got to 23 pages ? any hrt fans there ?

#908 understeer

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:23

If they are using it they should have mentioned it in the F112 spec in the website

#909 lemec

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:27

http://www.hrtf1team...he/el-f112.html

Sidepod and nose seem different, engine cover slightly changed as well, front suspension mounts are higher.



that's misleading  ;) the pic is the F111 even if the technical spec is the F112 one.

#910 Wingcommander

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:29

That's my opinion, not the opinion of the HRT fans.


Oh i didn't mean it like that. I actually agree with you that HRT & Marussia have more important things to do than fiddle with KERS. But if it's true that they are not gonna use KERS, then i find it pretty funny after all the boasting in the Marussia thread.

#911 lemec

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:30

I also think it's last season's car. No KERS, at least for the first part of the season, good decision IMO.



that's arguably, but since it's no my duty but Tony one's ...

#912 lemec

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:37

They are not going to use KERS this season and it seems the right choice, KERS brings a lot of problems and not so much gain for a small team.



such is the creed of Cuquerella ... As I said it's arguably but today he's, de facto, the technical honcho so I'm pretty sure he won't be any problem to put forward their point of view

#913 showtime

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:38

that's arguably, but since it's no my duty but Tony one's ...


Like I said, it's just my opinion. Of course team engineers will know best but they have already decided to start without it so... Let's wait ti the first races to see how fast the new car is, if the balance and aero are good from the beginning maybe they could think of using KERS.

#914 lemec

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 16:50

According to Pedro they are planning to use it just on some specific GP where they think it could be worth enough.

#915 Petroltorque

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 18:44

Complete madness, paying millions to use KERS on an Ad hoc basis. Having a guy who is not a design engineer as TD is not going to work I'm afraid.

#916 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 19:01

Complete madness, paying millions to use KERS on an Ad hoc basis. Having a guy who is not a design engineer as TD is not going to work I'm afraid.


What I heard is that KERS is integrated for the F112 chassis, but they will not use it at Australia.

As you say a car being designed for KERS and then not using it won't work.



#917 lemec

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 20:29

Complete madness, paying millions to use KERS on an Ad hoc basis. Having a guy who is not a design engineer as TD is not going to work I'm afraid.


... no so many millions, don't worry.

Cuquerella is not he TD. Today there is no TD that's why I say today he's de facto the tech honcho.

Hiring a new TD it's not a priority today. Maybe Tredozi will get the Job, maybe no anyway the priority today is the car no the TD.

On the other hand I don´t see anything wrong with having Toni as TD. He's as qualified as any other TD on the grid.

#918 packapoo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:15

No KERS, I don't think they're planning to use it at all this year from what I've read, not 100% though


Don't need KERS. Their drivers are fast enough. :rotfl:

#919 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:43

... no so many millions, don't worry.

Cuquerella is not he TD. Today there is no TD that's why I say today he's de facto the tech honcho.

Hiring a new TD it's not a priority today. Maybe Tredozi will get the Job, maybe no anyway the priority today is the car no the TD.

On the other hand I don´t see anything wrong with having Toni as TD. He's as qualified as any other TD on the grid.

I'm afraid Cuqurella is Not as qualified as the top Technical Directors like, Gillan, Costa, Willis, Brawn, Newey, Gascoygne, to name a few. They are all design engineers/ vehicle dynamicists who have come out of specialised physical disciplines. He is basicaaly a race engineer who's job is to chase car setup. Ideally a team needs a TD with design experience as he coordinates track performance with performance.

Edited by Petroltorque, 22 February 2012 - 10:46.


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#920 lemec

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:31

I'm afraid Cuqurella is Not as qualified as the top Technical Directors like, Gillan, Costa, Willis, Brawn, Newey, Gascoigne, to name a few. They are all design engineers/ vehicle dynamicists who have come out of specialised physical disciplines. He is basicaaly a race engineer who's job is to chase car setup. Ideally a team needs a TD with design experience as he coordinates track performance with performance.



You're wrong.

Cuquerella is a Mechanical Engineer working in open wheels motorsport since 1999. He's as qualified as any of the guys you mention and may be more than some of them.

He's less experienced that guys that are in their fifties or more, as it's obvious for a guy that is just 38, but not less qualified. In addition we're not, once again, talking about taking over Ferrari o Mclaren.

Edited by lemec, 22 February 2012 - 09:32.


#921 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:51

With the greatest of respect which of the individuals I mentioned is Cuquerella more quailified? On degree quailification alone he comes up well shortn All attended Russel group Universities apart from Costa. Willis and Gascoygne came out of Cambridge. The icing on the cake is that they've all produced race winning cars.

Edited by Petroltorque, 22 February 2012 - 10:44.


#922 lemec

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:19

Well ... if you think that spanish degrees are shit is your right and your problem, but what Toni hold is a Master level degree in mechanical and electronics engineering ... at least now you know that when you said "He is basicaaly a race engineer" you were talking without knowing a damn what you were talking about ...

If you want to say that he's not experienced enough we could, eventually, agree. But that's another point and I've already said that it's obvious that some one who is twenty years younger can't be as experienced that people that is in their fifties or more.

Toni is as qualified as any other TD you can found. Your point was wrong.

You should try to admit your mistake and/or preconception instead of attempt to move the focus to other issue, it doesn't change a iota to the above.

Edited by lemec, 22 February 2012 - 10:34.


#923 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:39

I would not presume to comment on the quality of Spanish University degrees as I have only ever attended Russell group Universities myself. But back to the point in question. The role of Technical Director is ESSENTIALLY a design job. It requires someone with some experience in car design, especially in modern era F1 with the emphasis on aerodynamics. If money was no object you could train up a talented but inexperienced individual. HRT need someone with experience in the job NOW to get a handle on chassis problems as soon as possible and know how to solve them. I agree they're not setting up a department at Maranella but in trying to get into the midfield the task is just as critical.

Edited by Petroltorque, 22 February 2012 - 10:41.


#924 lemec

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:35

The role of Technical Director is ESSENTIALLY a design job. It requires someone with some experience in car design, especially in modern era F1 with the emphasis on aerodynamics. If money was no object you could train up a talented but inexperienced individual. HRT need someone with experience in the job NOW to get a handle on chassis problems as soon as possible and know how to solve them. I agree they're not setting up a department at Maranella but in trying to get into the midfield the task is just as critical.



OK. move on and forgot, then, the qualification issue. :rolleyes:

May be you were questioned his experience, somenthing we can know, and his skills even if are rather impossible to assess being outside.

It's clear that his less experienced that Ross Brawn but not much less that, i.e, James Key or Sam Michael (another mechanical eng). James Key became TD in Mindland after been for several years data eng in Jordan , Sato's Race eng and only one year of heading the vehicle dynamics department. Sam Michael joint jordan after several years on sport cars to work, also, on data acquisition, then on suspesion simulation after several years was promoted to race eng. When he moves to willians was also to take on race eng duties.

Actually he was on the very same position Toni is today when Sir Frank promoted him to the TD.

If moving from the responsibility of managing the engineers at races and tests to TD is OK for Sam Michael and Frank Williams, why it is stupid for TQ and LPS?


Of course when you say that "The role of Technical Director is ESSENTIALLY a design job" you're wrong as Eddie Jordan, Peter Sauber, and Frank Williams had proved. The role of a TD, in F1 or in whatever engineering activity is the coordination of the diferent teams, the desing (together withthe managment and the heads of the diferent departments) of the strategy and assuming the responsibility of taking the hard decissions. The "desing job" is below the TD level. This doesn't prevent that the TD person can also keept the role of cheif aerodynamicist as is the case of some (not all) of those you'd mention.

#925 kandru

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:55

OK. move on and forgot, then, the qualification issue. :rolleyes:

May be you were questioned his experience, somenthing we can know, and his skills even if are rather impossible to assess being outside.

It's clear that his less experienced that Ross Brawn but not much less that, i.e, James Key or Sam Michael (another mechanical eng). James Key became TD in Mindland after been for several years data eng in Jordan , Sato's Race eng and only one year of heading the vehicle dynamics department. Sam Michael joint jordan after several years on sport cars to work, also, on data acquisition, then on suspesion simulation after several years was promoted to race eng. When he moves to willians was also to take on race eng duties.

Actually he was on the very same position Toni is today when Sir Frank promoted him to the TD.

If moving from the responsibility of managing the engineers at races and tests to TD is OK for Sam Michael and Frank Williams, why it is stupid for TQ and LPS?


Of course when you say that "The role of Technical Director is ESSENTIALLY a design job" you're wrong as Eddie Jordan, Peter Sauber, and Frank Williams had proved. The role of a TD, in F1 or in whatever engineering activity is the coordination of the diferent teams, the desing (together withthe managment and the heads of the diferent departments) of the strategy and assuming the responsibility of taking the hard decissions. The "desing job" is below the TD level. This doesn't prevent that the TD person can also keept the role of cheif aerodynamicist as is the case of some (not all) of those you'd mention.

someone here is mixing Technical Director and Team Principal

#926 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:53

Brawn, Newey, Gascoyne, Willis all worked as designers prior to becomind TDs. They thus attained knowledge of all aspects of car design prior to being promoted. Sam Michael is a poor example as he was probably the worse technical director Williams ever had. He does illustrate what can happen if someone without a deep enough understanding of aero is given project oversight. Michael's present role at Mclaren is not a design one.
I think the problem here is a readiness to accept everything HRT is doing will work. They are working within a time and budgetary constraint. They need someone with previous TD experience in that role.

Edited by Petroltorque, 22 February 2012 - 13:06.


#927 lemec

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 14:28

Brawn, Newey, Gascoyne, Willis all worked as designers prior to becomind TDs.


Yes. Others didn't.

They thus attained knowledge of all aspects of car design prior to being promoted.


The way to acquire such a knowledge it's not limited to exercise, by one self, all the aspects of a car design and manufacturing. Some of the guys you mention are just aerodynamicist with no background in mechanics ...

Sam Michael is a poor example as he was probably the worse technical director Williams ever had.


Sam Michel and James Key are perfectly valid examples to shown that your postulate is false. Sam Michael was promoted by Frank Williams and Patrick Head to the TD role from a position that is exactly the same that TQ is holiding today in HRT. Maybe you think that FW and PH don't know about this bussines.

He does illustrate what can happen if someone without a deep enough understanding of aero is given project oversight. Michael's present role at Mclaren is not a design one.


No. That's just an example of Peter's principle.

I think the problem here is a readiness to accept everything HRT is doing will work. They are working within a time and budgetary constraint. They need someone with previous TD experience in that role.


I don't say the contrary.

What I said is that Tredozi is better (Brawn even better) even if Toni is good enough.

It's only you who is basing TQ. First telling that he's not qualified then that he has not the good profil when the fact is that F1 is plenty of TD with the same degree, experience and similar background.




#928 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 17:26

This is all becoming rather boring but if your arguement is that Cuquerella can perform the TD role because it is simply a case of coordinating various departments, but I consider that a project managers job. The TD's role is not only monitoring ontrack performance but car design.AFAIK Cuquerella has no experience in F1 car design.
I can't think of any team on the grid who have a TD who has not come through a design office or had previous experience as a TD. Now here's the rub, the exception to the rule was Sam Michael. He had input into car design and race operations oversight. But Michael Lost his job because his input on design was so bad. Yes, James Key had worked as TD at Midland , but he'd also set up an aero prgram prior to that role. The design by committee/project manager approach does not work.
Actually I stand corrected. Pat Fry is another pure race/ electronics engineer promoted to TD roles at Macca and then Ferrari. His car to date have prooved singularly uncompetitive.

Edited by Petroltorque, 22 February 2012 - 18:04.


#929 sosidge

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 22:35

This is all becoming rather boring but if your arguement is that Cuquerella can perform the TD role because it is simply a case of coordinating various departments, but I consider that a project managers job. The TD's role is not only monitoring ontrack performance but car design.AFAIK Cuquerella has no experience in F1 car design.
I can't think of any team on the grid who have a TD who has not come through a design office or had previous experience as a TD. Now here's the rub, the exception to the rule was Sam Michael. He had input into car design and race operations oversight. But Michael Lost his job because his input on design was so bad. Yes, James Key had worked as TD at Midland , but he'd also set up an aero prgram prior to that role. The design by committee/project manager approach does not work.
Actually I stand corrected. Pat Fry is another pure race/ electronics engineer promoted to TD roles at Macca and then Ferrari. His car to date have prooved singularly uncompetitive.


If you are going to boast about the quality of your education you could at least get your spelling right.

#930 pingu666

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:21

I think it really depends on the individual, and also how they gel with the rest of the team

with HRT and other small teams, its a case of getting the best out of the people you got. and the jobs at HRT will be far less focused than ferrari or other big teams, as theres way less staff. so a title means less.



#931 understeer

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 16:02

Any crash test info ?

#932 lemec

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 16:30

This is all becoming rather boring but if your arguement is that Cuquerella can perform the TD role because it is simply a case of coordinating various departments,


which is becoming rather boring is that you're twisting my words again :down:

I said: "The role of a TD, in F1 or in whatever engineering activity is the coordination of the diferent teams, the desing (together with the managment and the heads of the diferent departments) of the strategy and assuming the responsibility of taking the hard decisions"

Nothing to do with your "simply a case of coordinating" :down: :down:

but I consider that a project managers job.


Neither. Project managers are under TD coordination and survey, maybe with some mangment levels in betwen.

The TD's role is not only monitoring ontrack performance but car design.


Again your words, not mine.

AFAIK Cuquerella has no experience in F1 car design.


and?

I can't think of any team on the grid who have a TD who has not come through a design office or had previous experience as a TD.


I gave you two examples.

The design by committee/project manager approach does not work.


That's what you say.

how many eng projects had you been involved?

design by peers committee is common practise.
Managment is hierarchical but also involving several people once the project is some how complex.

Actually I stand corrected. Pat Fry is another pure race/ electronics engineer promoted to TD roles at Macca and then Ferrari. His car to date have prooved singularly uncompetitive.


Third example and an opinion.


#933 Petroltorque

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 20:14

I have no intention to twist your words but my responses are based on my interpretation of what you have written. I am assuming that you are not writing in your native language ( no offense as I can't write in Spanish). If the syntax is not correct then a sentence is open to interpretation.
The nature of a forum is that it posts people's opinions. My opinion is contrary to yours. I see no point in hijacking the topic arguing whose is right. We'll soon find out once the season starts.

#934 Bloggsworth

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 20:15

What's an HRT, haven't seen one this year, when do they migrate?

#935 lemec

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 20:40

I have no intention to twist your words but my responses are based on my interpretation of what you have written. I am assuming that you are not writing in your native language ( no offense as I can't write in Spanish). If the syntax is not correct then a sentence is open to interpretation.
The nature of a forum is that it posts people's opinions. My opinion is contrary to yours. I see no point in hijacking the topic arguing whose is right. We'll soon find out once the season starts.

:down:


#936 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 20:50

What's an HRT, haven't seen one this year, when do they migrate?


When do we see a Marussia, I don't think I have seen one of them this year?

#937 lemec

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 22:09

just the roll hoop test to pass  ;)

#938 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 22:14

just the roll hoop test to pass ;)


Tomorrow morning I believe...

#939 lemec

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 22:18

that's it

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#940 Creepy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 22:40

I do wonder if the mockery per page on this thread will come to an end once HRT pass the crash tests and finish ahead of Virgin again (a team that doesn't seem to be as bashed as HRT here). Hope it doesn't have to do with where the heartquarters are located and all of that.

Btw, hope Clos doesn't get ever a drive seat.

Edited by Creepy, 23 February 2012 - 22:41.


#941 showtime

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 23:17

I'm wondering if it could be possible for them to have five days of testing next week. Ferrari and RBR will be also on Monday and it seems Lotus has been granted permission to recover at least a day of testing.

#942 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 23:20

I'm wondering if it could be possible for them to have five days of testing next week. Ferrari and RBR will be also on Monday and it seems Lotus has been granted permission to recover at least a day of testing.


Well HRT had 2 days testing at Jerez and nothing at Barcelona this week, it should be possible.

#943 Showty

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 13:38

Marco Canseco, F1 Marca journalist, said in a chat this morning it seems HRT already passed all the crash tests, although it´s not official yet.

#944 lemec

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 14:00

Dani Clos has also made some advances in that sense but nothig really clear.

I guess that there are Team Orders :rotfl: to shut up till Saul and Luis came back from UK.

#945 One

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 17:27

Marco Canseco, F1 Marca journalist, said in a chat this morning it seems HRT already passed all the crash tests, although it´s not official yet.

:up: :up:

I do like that fact that HRT is working out of their own blood. Fake teams like red Bull who is running British otfit out of rich Austrian money is not worth respecting as a true constructor. Financing is a great task, but the championship will become true international championship when the teams coming from completely other countries and back ground. Buying and selling teams are not the way to bring formula one up to the real internaltional sport podium. Who wil imagine Contador running in USA squad?
In this respect Tennis is a exception but the rest seems to me more sorted out.

:cool:

Sorry a bit out of context. I hope that HRT makes it. Beat Americans, Formula one is not as easy as some US citizens may think. :smoking:

In a same way I have to express some disappointment to Japanese folk. The very first Honda was true Japanese team. It was great. The second was as Engine builder that is to be totally confirmed and they did great. The third, was ... hell what was that? As of Toyota too rich to become real racers. Like in Le Mans for Toyota, they seems to forget a business men also have to face his neck if they are to go racing. There should be a own constructor's blood feeding racing excitement,...

sorry again went too far... Go HRT the last but not least... :smoking:

#946 moonraker

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 19:57

:up: :up:

I do like that fact that HRT is working out of their own blood. Fake teams like red Bull who is running British otfit out of rich Austrian money is not worth respecting as a true constructor. Financing is a great task, but the championship will become true international championship when the teams coming from completely other countries and back ground. Buying and selling teams are not the way to bring formula one up to the real internaltional sport podium. Who wil imagine Contador running in USA squad?
In this respect Tennis is a exception but the rest seems to me more sorted out.


Red Bull may not have as much history and legacy as the big teams out there, but atleast they're doing what it takes to compete in F1. Kuddos to them.

HRT is just a waste of space, not even being able to bring a car to the pre-season tests, hiring PDLR and Karthikeyan (!!!), and setting up a "spanish" team, far away from the historic motorsport clusters in UK, Italy or Germany, while 50% of people between 18 and 25 are unemployed in their country... They're either ahead of their time or lunatics





#947 Myrvold

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 20:06

HRT is just a waste of space, not even being able to bring a car to the pre-season tests, hiring PDLR and Karthikeyan (!!!), and setting up a "spanish" team, far away from the historic motorsport clusters in UK, Italy or Germany, while 50% of people between 18 and 25 are unemployed in their country... They're either ahead of their time or lunatics


And neither is Marussia. Lotus brought a car that didn't hold itself together, while Mercedes had to wait to test number two. De la Rosa have lots of testing experience, important for a team like HRT. Narain brings good money, and showed good speed when you consider he was out of F1 for 5 years.
A team that operates outside the traditional motorsport areas is very good, and the fact that they have a spanish HQ, trying to get spanish people to work for the team is very good. They are creating jobs - if they had been operating outside Spain, there had been even less jobs in Spain. To get rid of unemployment, you need to create jobs. And that is what HRT are doing!

I cannot understand why you think these things are bad.

#948 showtime

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 21:27

Red Bull may not have as much history and legacy as the big teams out there, but atleast they're doing what it takes to compete in F1. Kuddos to them.

HRT is just a waste of space, not even being able to bring a car to the pre-season tests, hiring PDLR and Karthikeyan (!!!), and setting up a "spanish" team, far away from the historic motorsport clusters in UK, Italy or Germany, while 50% of people between 18 and 25 are unemployed in their country... They're either ahead of their time or lunatics


Compare HRT with Red Bull is plain stupid. For starters Red Bull bought a team (two to be precise) that had worked in F1 for a long time so most of the work was already done. Then you have teams trying to get sponsors to complete the budget while Red Bull has all the money they want and when they want. Not to mention the conditions promised to the new teams entering in 2010... And the unemployment rate is totally irrelevant here but if you want my opinion creating more employments where is needed seems ok to me. And btw HRT may have not been testing yet with the new car but it's not the only team, others like Mercedes also missed the first test, Lotus had a faulty chasis...

#949 showtime

showtime
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 21:31

I cannot understand why you think these things are bad.


Some people are afraid of things that are different. I bet a lot of people in England and Germany wouldn't like a team based on other country to be successful, they already had enough with those Italians...


#950 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 21:34

:up: :up:

I do like that fact that HRT is working out of their own blood. Fake teams like red Bull who is running British otfit out of rich Austrian money is not worth respecting as a true constructor. Financing is a great task, but the championship will become true international championship when the teams coming from completely other countries and back ground. Buying and selling teams are not the way to bring formula one up to the real internaltional sport podium. Who wil imagine Contador running in USA squad?
In this respect Tennis is a exception but the rest seems to me more sorted out.

:cool:

Sorry a bit out of context. I hope that HRT makes it. Beat Americans, Formula one is not as easy as some US citizens may think. :smoking:

In a same way I have to express some disappointment to Japanese folk. The very first Honda was true Japanese team. It was great. The second was as Engine builder that is to be totally confirmed and they did great. The third, was ... hell what was that? As of Toyota too rich to become real racers. Like in Le Mans for Toyota, they seems to forget a business men also have to face his neck if they are to go racing. There should be a own constructor's blood feeding racing excitement,...

sorry again went too far... Go HRT the last but not least... :smoking:



I agree, there is no reason why Formula one teams should be restricted to exclusively having bases in England and Italy (and also Germany). Other countries like France, US, Canada, Australia, Korea and Japan all have what it takes in terms of technical personnel and resources to develop their own teams. This is probably why HRT receives so much mockery in these threads, because they are challenging the established perception of what and where a F1 team should be. People think they know Spain but all they really know is Spain's relaxing sunny Southern Coasts in the summer time, they don't see our hard working industrialized cities in north the Universities and industries. How can a holiday resort won their own formula one team??? :stoned: :drunk:

Its disappointing that F1 does not look like it will ever have another American team for a very long time. Because if it did then I am sure it would be a benefit to F1. It would bring more competition and innovation as teams could draw from a bigger pool of talented Engineering & manufacturing personnel & facilities. F1 design and manufacturing is too specialized and concentrated in a small area, therefore making it too expensive and out of the reach of smaller teams.

Looking back Toyota seemed like they were not really a team of sports men but just a group of people doing their jobs, not much passion. Not much different from the other big teams. They Had the money, the resources, they did well but they could not get that little extra to become champions.

This year we will probably see an entirely different HRT
At first I though it was suicidal for HRT to move everything to Spain but actually it isn't such a bad idea if you think about it. Spain is not that far and isolated from the traditional F1 hubs.

I just hope we don't get any nasty surprises and the F112 makes it to testing and HRT do better this season :clap:

Edited by xxiiooiixx, 24 February 2012 - 21:52.