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HRT 2012 Thread


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#1001 cbbcisace

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 16:36

You’re absolutely right hopefully Next year’s car won’t be as difficult.
Another thing to add is that the car has probably got no carry over from the previous 2 cars, even though this car was also started quite late.

On another forum someone pointed out the vast expenses involved in attending a testing session. So maybe for a small team with a marginal chance of improving this year, the cost savings from not attending all sessions outweighs any benefit.

Either way they still need to show their sponsors & fans their new car.
I just hope HRT keep to their original plan of using KERS this year.


The F112 has no carry over from the F111 and according has a similar look to the Lotus this year.

People has this view that everyone works to the same time frames, it simply doesn't work like that with smaller teams having less budget.

December Kolles left and the whole operation was turned upside down, with a lack of money you have to do everything slower and with more care.

Lets see what happens this week!

Edited by cbbcisace, 26 February 2012 - 16:47.


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#1002 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:01

I'm sorry but I don't get the point of a team being in F1 who can't test,make a car in time,whose budget is that of Pro Cycling team with a lot less sponsors other than just being there because they can.

They bring nothing to F1 for me.


If that's the case HRT must have done something amazing last year to be so terrible but still beat Virgin racing, on a Pro Cycling teams budget. (No disrespecting our friends Virgin Marrusia :up: :up: :up: )

The original plan of Campos Meta F1 was to enter F1 on a Limited budget with the production of the car outsourced, this is what the FIA wanted at the time. From what HRT have done over the past 2 years it shows the original plan was entirely possible.

Virgin and HRT totally deserver their places in F1 there have been far worse new teams in F1. They bring more to F1 then if they were out of F1. Sponsors are no longer willing to splash out cash as they did before so small teams are better then no teams. They Just need more time.

#1003 Fastcake

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:23

Let's stop with this continuous statement that HRT were actually better than Virgin last year. Yes, they finished ahead of them in the constructors championship, but that was merely due to the way a tied score is calculated. That 13th place that got HRT ahead came from the one race last year when a Virgin car did not finish in front. Excepting that, a Virgin car finished ahead every other race, and in 16 of them both Virgin's beat both HRT's.

#1004 cbbcisace

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:25

Let's stop with this continuous statement that HRT were actually better than Virgin last year. Yes, they finished ahead of them in the constructors championship, but that was merely due to the way a tied score is calculated. That 13th place that got HRT ahead came from the one race last year when a Virgin car did not finish in front. Excepting that, a Virgin car finished ahead every other race, and in 16 of them both Virgin's beat both HRT's.


Agreed with this but unfortunately the table doesn't lie.

#1005 Clatter

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:31

Well it shouldn't wash with Marussia either.


True, but as this is the HRT thread it's HRT who are being discussed.

#1006 Clatter

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:33

I'm sorry but I don't get the point of a team being in F1 who can't test,make a car in time,whose budget is that of Pro Cycling team with a lot less sponsors other than just being there because they can.

They bring nothing to F1 for me.


Very few teams enter the sport on mega budgets and hit the front straight away. I like to watch how the new teams progress and hope they do manage to succeed rather than go bust.

#1007 cbbcisace

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:35

True, but as this is the HRT thread it's HRT who are being discussed.


OK agreed I shouldn't have brought Marussia into it.

This was always going to happen once the Kolles split was announced.

Lets deal with it and see what happens this year.

Perez-Sala has said that HRT have budget in place for this year, so make of that what you will.

#1008 fieraku

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:35

If that's the case HRT must have done something amazing last year to be so terrible but still beat Virgin racing, on a Pro Cycling teams budget. (No disrespecting our friends Virgin Marrusia :up: :up: :up: )

The original plan of Campos Meta F1 was to enter F1 on a Limited budget with the production of the car outsourced, this is what the FIA wanted at the time. From what HRT have done over the past 2 years it shows the original plan was entirely possible.

Virgin and HRT totally deserver their places in F1 there have been far worse new teams in F1. They bring more to F1 then if they were out of F1. Sponsors are no longer willing to splash out cash as they did before so small teams are better then no teams. They Just need more time.


Sorry to disappoint you mate but I think of Marussia the same way,and their budget it's even smaller I think.

And what is it exactly that they bring? Other than just having two extra teams on the grid I don't see it.



#1009 GhostR

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:37

As mentioned above that doesn't really wash. They didn't bring the new car out until the last test last year either. 3 years in, they really should be better prepared now.

Disagree completely! Last year, if the Bahrain race hadn't been cancelled there would not have been two HRT cars ready to race. As it is they only just got ready in time for Australia. Year before that wasn't much better.

This year, had the rules been the same as previous years, they would have been ready to attend 2 tests with their new car. But the rules have changed and those crash tests have cost them. They are, however, by all signs light years ahead of where they were at the same time last year. Let's give them the chance to show us if those signs are correct before writing them off.

#1010 fieraku

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:41

Very few teams enter the sport on mega budgets and hit the front straight away. I like to watch how the new teams progress and hope they do manage to succeed rather than go bust.

Yes but this is the third year now,making a car and having it ready by the second test at least it should be a given not some miracle.
Whatever I guess some people like watching paint drip down a wall.

#1011 Clatter

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:41

Disagree completely! Last year, if the Bahrain race hadn't been cancelled there would not have been two HRT cars ready to race. As it is they only just got ready in time for Australia. Year before that wasn't much better.

This year, had the rules been the same as previous years, they would have been ready to attend 2 tests with their new car. But the rules have changed and those crash tests have cost them. They are, however, by all signs light years ahead of where they were at the same time last year. Let's give them the chance to show us if those signs are correct before writing them off.


I'm not writing them off, but don't see that they are in real terms any better off than last year. They only made the last test with the new car, same as this year. IMHO just because the crash test has changed should not cause big delays in getting the car ready.

#1012 Clatter

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 17:43

Yes but this is the third year now,making a car and having it ready by the second test at least it should be a given not some miracle.
Whatever I guess some people like watching paint drip down a wall.


I do believe they should be better prepared now, but I disagree that they bring nothing to F1. I'd rather see them on the grid than 2 more empty slots.

#1013 Iseriouslyhadenough

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 18:51

Yes but this is the third year now,making a car and having it ready by the second test at least it should be a given not some miracle.
Whatever I guess some people like watching paint drip down a wall.


And this is different to, uuuuh, Marussia?

HRT could have perfectly went to the first Barcelona test with their old car, they did in Jerez for two days, they simply know it wasn't worth to test the old car (Testing does cost money, you know?) again - check what program Marussia did.. they simply gave their drivers (especially Pic) more track time, that's it. Not so much data to be collected on an old car, besides a bit in the new tires, sure, but with temperatures not being at the same level than most races will be, who knows if those data will really be that valuable? Sure, if HRT had money left and right, they would have been there, but given the expenses, they prefer to maximize the time they get with their new car, not doing mileage with their old one.

So, how is Marussia showing up with their old car, who went last in 2011 championship, anyhow better than what HRT does? If HRT is indeed showing up at the 2nd Barcelona test, with a car that's not an absolute dog, and keeps on taking Marussia, it would make me smile. Big time. Give them a chance, at least.

#1014 Clatter

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 19:00

And this is different to, uuuuh, Marussia?

HRT could have perfectly went to the first Barcelona test with their old car, they did in Jerez for two days, they simply know it wasn't worth to test the old car (Testing does cost money, you know?) again - check what program Marussia did.. they simply gave their drivers (especially Pic) more track time, that's it. Not so much data to be collected on an old car, besides a bit in the new tires, sure, but with temperatures not being at the same level than most races will be, who knows if those data will really be that valuable? Sure, if HRT had money left and right, they would have been there, but given the expenses, they prefer to maximize the time they get with their new car, not doing mileage with their old one.

So, how is Marussia showing up with their old car, who went last in 2011 championship, anyhow better than what HRT does? If HRT is indeed showing up at the 2nd Barcelona test, with a car that's not an absolute dog, and keeps on taking Marussia, it would make me smile. Big time. Give them a chance, at least.


Why do people keep bringing up Marussia? It's HRT being discussed.

#1015 Fastcake

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 19:59

Agreed with this but unfortunately the table doesn't lie.


I don't think you can agree with me and with the table. They're two opposite things...

#1016 cbbcisace

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 20:35

I don't think you can agree with me and with the table. They're two opposite things...


I agree with your statement re Virgin being ahead of HRT most of 2011 but no one can doubt the constructors table.

can I do that?? i'm not sure.

#1017 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 21:01

Sorry to disappoint you mate but I think of Marussia the same way,and their budget it's even smaller I think.

And what is it exactly that they bring? Other than just having two extra teams on the grid I don't see it.



In this thread I think it’s a valid point to mention Virgin in relation to HRT, they are close rivals and almost in the same boat. They started at the same time. So we won’t escape from discussing Virgin in passing. If HRT catch up with Caterham this year, then we will be adding them to our discussions.

So you ask what HRT and Virgin bring to F1? For starters they bring jobs, demand in goods and services from industries specialising in F1. Cosworth for example would no longer be in F1 this year.

Bruno Senna, Karun Chandhok and Daniel Ricciardo got some exposure which resulted in them moving up which may have taken them longer otherwise. The cost of pre-season testing is shared equally between a larger numbers of teams. New teams bring new blood and new ideas and provide a medium for skilled personal to learn and practise their trade.

These teams are where they supposed to be and there should probably be more teams.


#1018 One

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 22:08

you cant compare hrt to redbull , redbull started at 2005 and was rubbish to be honest and became champions in the 6th year , they had the basis of a decent f1 team like jaguar f1 and established engineers and mechanics. hrt on the other hand is trying to build a team from scratch and every year they are experiencing huge reshuffle . you cant compare it to any established team right now


well, you are comparingthe two already, and this is what i exactly mean to say.

#1019 Nustang70

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 22:51

Very few teams enter the sport on mega budgets and hit the front straight away. I like to watch how the new teams progress and hope they do manage to succeed rather than go bust.


Agreed. I also don't mind F1 having a couple of minnows. In that sense, I miss Minardi. I also really enjoyed seeing Arrows punching above their weight a decade ago.

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#1020 cbbcisace

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 22:57

HRT staff are even working today (Germany) to get the cars ready, I know only one has to be there for the test so full steam ahead :p

Edited by cbbcisace, 26 February 2012 - 23:26.


#1021 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:50

HRT staff are even working today (Germany) to get the cars ready, I know only one has to be there for the test so full steam ahead :p


I used to hate working Sundays its awful, but if my job was assembling a F1 car then it would be a different sorry. Lets hope that the car performs amazingly and their efforts are rewarded.
Go HRT!! :up: :up: :up:

#1022 Meanbeakin

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:18

In this thread I think it’s a valid point to mention Virgin in relation to HRT, they are close rivals and almost in the same boat. They started at the same time. So we won’t escape from discussing Virgin in passing. If HRT catch up with Caterham this year, then we will be adding them to our discussions.

So you ask what HRT and Virgin bring to F1? For starters they bring jobs, demand in goods and services from industries specialising in F1. Cosworth for example would no longer be in F1 this year.

Bruno Senna, Karun Chandhok and Daniel Ricciardo got some exposure which resulted in them moving up which may have taken them longer otherwise. The cost of pre-season testing is shared equally between a larger numbers of teams. New teams bring new blood and new ideas and provide a medium for skilled personal to learn and practise their trade.

These teams are where they supposed to be and there should probably be more teams.


Plus any sport needs an underdog!

#1023 One

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:33

HRT got the reson to be supported by world wide formula one fans. The fate of the out fit will fnally give a chance for answer/breath to other fellows from other countries mediatating at a moment if they could move their base to homeland. I do think that To Make Formula One true international sport this step is ultimately important. It will be interesting to see what Indians and Chinese can do within the RRA agreements, if they can beat Red Bull or who ever in Britain, given accounts that RRA sum are to be made in Euro/USD. Namely in those lands costs are extremely low. 40milion Euro in China is worth 400 million there, given higher level of egineerig performance. Why not, currently most racing bikes frames come from there and only thing they may need is to push their engineering skills, Will to win, mind sets to win races.

USA seems to be having a bit of problem that they are not willing to take on the challenge that they know they will lose if they were to race from their own land. Japanese has the same or similar problem at a moment. Obviously Toyota, Honda or whoever joins many racing series are making drivers a hero and racing car construction skill are staying behind the scene, namely they have no ambition to go out to Germany for example from JAPAN to battle at DTM. Same is true for Le Mans, they do it with Logistic reasons but little or less Japanese engineers are involved in. If in Japan a single seater racing car is necessary then they rather buy cars from Europ with double the price than building their own and beating European chassis in their own series. There are small exception tho.

There is no need for ex-Toyota F1 program engineers to feel sorry for this tho. The issue is exactly what it caused Toyota/Honda to pull plug from the sport. They were doing it for marketting and not for the sake of winning for their own glory. Businessman engineers will never wanted to put their salary on th balance when it came down to losing the championship. They just accounted, the reason as to why Toyota never WON title is not comig from the factory but from the top.

[EDIT] TIPO...

Edited by One, 27 February 2012 - 10:42.


#1024 lemec

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:48

seems that, after the latest news, anxiety increases among some of our dear forumers ...


:lol:

#1025 understeer

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 14:37

The F112 has no carry over from the F111 and according has a similar look to the Lotus this year.


Also rumors of a pull rod suspension. Hopefully they get to test these new stuff in Barcelona.


#1026 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 18:33

Also rumors of a pull rod suspension. Hopefully they get to test these new stuff in Barcelona.


This is what HRT posted in their technical details page of the HRT F112.

Front Suspension: Carbon Fibre Double wishbone with pushrod operating torsion springs and antiroll-bar via rocker.
Rear Suspension: Carbon Fibre Double wishbone with pullrod operating torsion springs and antiroll-bar via rocker.

interestingly they haven't said anything about KERS! :down:


you can see the whole list here HRT F112 Specs

#1027 cbbcisace

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 19:04

This is what HRT posted in their technical details page of the HRT F112.

Front Suspension: Carbon Fibre Double wishbone with pushrod operating torsion springs and antiroll-bar via rocker.
Rear Suspension: Carbon Fibre Double wishbone with pullrod operating torsion springs and antiroll-bar via rocker.

interestingly they haven't said anything about KERS! :down:


you can see the whole list here HRT F112 Specs


KERS will be used don't worry about that, just maybe not straight away..

#1028 cbbcisace

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 20:58

HRT trucks are starting to appear at Barcelona according to twitter.

#1029 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 21:17

HRT trucks are starting to appear at Barcelona according to twitter.


Yes I have also seen the news :up: but unfortunately on our friends twitter they reporting they cant make it due to failed crash tests :down: . As an HRT fan we know how that feels, so with all the respect we wish Marussia all the best and hope to see you soon,(in our rear view mirrors of corse!)

#1030 lemec

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:43

It's good having the trucks there ... but, where are the cars?

#1031 cbbcisace

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:19

It's good having the trucks there ... but, where are the cars?


One on the way to Barcelona and one being prepared to go to Australia!

#1032 lemec

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:01

on the way?

I'm afraid it is still being built..

#1033 cbbcisace

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:21

on the way?

I'm afraid it is still being built..


Sorry what I meant is that 1 F112 will be at Barcelona and 1 F112 will be getting built and on to Australia.

#1034 One

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:38

Coud F112 be a surprise of 2012? Would it beat Caterham?

#1035 TeamSideways

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:43

the rule of tied teams is unfair in this situation hrt doesn't deserve to beat virgin in the championship

#1036 Mastah

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:57

Coud F112 be a surprise of 2012? Would it beat Caterham?


No.


#1037 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 13:38

No.

Why not! Caterham might have problems with their suspension and now that Redbull & Ferrari not extending their test days dont think caterhamcan extend theirs. We dont really know until Hrt runs the car

#1038 Iseriouslyhadenough

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 13:59

Why not! Caterham might have problems with their suspension and now that Redbull & Ferrari not extending their test days dont think caterhamcan extend theirs. We dont really know until Hrt runs the car


Caterham does have much better facilities than HRT, also the only new team that was so far able to come close to the back of the established teams and able to keep some cars behind if on a good strategy for parts of the race.. there is quite a gap between Caterham and HRT/Marussia. I expect it to be even larger this year. But the good thing is, with HRT being only second-last, there are some advantages over Marussia :clap: - maybe this year their car is even better than Marussias on a regular base, and not just able to finish ahead of them in the WCC.

And if Caterham won't be strong enough for a finish in the points, there is always the chance of a crazy race and an HRT ending up somehow on P10, P11 in it... the gap of FOM money from WCC P10 to P11 is much wider than the gap from WCC P11 to P12..

Edited by Iseriouslyhadenough, 28 February 2012 - 14:00.


#1039 Baddoer

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 14:13

I fear worst with Catherham. Thy dumped Trulli so they have no development driver. While Kovalainen is fast, he is not, so does Petrov.

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#1040 One

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 14:18

the rule of tied teams is unfair in this situation hrt doesn't deserve to beat virgin in the championship


9 out of 10 races HRT stay behind Caterham. but yo have one of those strange races...

#1041 lemec

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:23

Why not! Caterham might have problems with their suspension and now that Redbull & Ferrari not extending their test days dont think caterhamcan extend theirs. We dont really know until Hrt runs the car


It isn't reasonable to expect that.

Caterhem has the people and the resources to react to this kind of issue, HRT hasn't.

Even in the ideal scenario on which the F1112 is perfect from the very first day and they could close the gap Caterham has, largely, the know-how and size to react.

#1042 understeer

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:29

@hrtf1team :"Hi everyone, we're working as hard as we can to try and make it to testing in Barcelona this week. Hope to see you all soon!"


HRT is still not ready. Will they be able to test all 4 days ? When will they shakedown the second chassis?

Edited by understeer, 28 February 2012 - 16:30.


#1043 Sanman59

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:35

@hrtf1team :"Hi everyone, we're working as hard as we can to try and make it to testing in Barcelona this week. Hope to see you all soon!"


HRT is still not ready. Will they be able to test all 4 days ? When will they shakedown the second chassis?



Rumour is that they will only make it to the final two days.

:(

#1044 cbbcisace

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 16:41

Rumour is that they will only make it to the final two days.

:(


That's all I have expected.

#1045 Mastah

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 17:51

Why not! Caterham might have problems with their suspension and now that Redbull & Ferrari not extending their test days dont think caterhamcan extend theirs. We dont really know until Hrt runs the car


Why not? Because it's logical answer.

Last year HRT was 2 seconds per lap slower than Caterham. In 2012 Caterham is probably better than HRT in every single aspect - car, engine, KERS, drivers, budget, testing and so on. Sure, some wacky race can happen and HRT can score points or secure 10th place with results, but I wouldn't bet on it. If anything I think Caterham will be even further ahead, with gap between them around 3 seconds.


#1046 lemec

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 18:14

too much seconds :smoking:

#1047 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 18:28

Why not? Because it's logical answer.

Last year HRT was 2 seconds per lap slower than Caterham. In 2012 Caterham is probably better than HRT in every single aspect - car, engine, KERS, drivers, budget, testing and so on. Sure, some wacky race can happen and HRT can score points or secure 10th place with results, but I wouldn't bet on it. If anything I think Caterham will be even further ahead, with gap between them around 3 seconds.


Yes I know what you mean just being over optimistic after all the anticipation of the new car. Caterham are too far ahead all we can hope for is that they make a mistake, maybe something like a small fuel tank or a bad design in their car.

#1048 Showty

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:37

That's all I have expected.


Not much time, but considering the resources they have and that the car just passed the crash tests it´s not that bad.

Pity they couldn´t pass them a few days earlier and have at least 4 days of testing.

Hope they can find some realibility soon and perhaps look for some performance.

#1049 lemec

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:39

Posted Image


see left bottom corner ... more pics there ...

#1050 Showty

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:50

Bigger than the Caterham´s by the way.

There´s a Cossworth truck next to HRT´s

http://www.f1today.net/en/photos