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HRT 2012 Thread


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#1351 dau

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 18:23

Yeah, well the front wing of the MP4/4 of 1988 was also good for McLaren at the time and won them 15 races out of 16. It doesn't mean you can't do better today in 2012. Ok it's a launch version but look at other teams launch versions, and you'll understand that to be in F1 it requires a complete different dedication and work on details.

I have no idea why you bring up a 24 year old design built under a completely different ruleset. The FW aero regulations have been pretty stable since 2009, many teams merely refined their designs instead of coming up with completely new ones. So if a simple design could be successful at the front of the grid in 2010, it could still work for a team like HRT two years later.

But as i said, they are using a simplified version of their 2011 wing. They will have their reasons for removing the cascades, but it's not that they are lacking dedication or are unable to build more detailed designs. Maybe the parts weren't ready yet, maybe they will have a completely new front wing - we'll know in two weeks.

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#1352 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 18:34

I have no idea why you bring up a 24 year old design built under a completely different ruleset. The FW aero regulations have been pretty stable since 2009, many teams merely refined their designs instead of coming up with completely new ones. So if a simple design could be successful at the front of the grid in 2010, it could still work for a team like HRT two years later.

But as i said, they are using a simplified version of their 2011 wing. They will have their reasons for removing the cascades, but it's not that they are lacking dedication or are unable to build more detailed designs. Maybe the parts weren't ready yet, maybe they will have a completely new front wing - we'll know in two weeks.

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I think its that a new wing is in manufacture.

#1353 lambylamby

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 19:29

First, a light year is a unit of distance, not time. Second, a wing that was good for Ferrari back then would not be bad for HRT now. A complex, cluttered design does not necessarily have to be more sophisticated than a simple looking, clean one. And third, this is their launch wing, which is actually a simplified version of what they ran last year. I would expect them to start adding bits and pieces soon.


Depends, could have been living in Norway in the Summer, and the Antarctic in the winter, it could have been a light year, as in time.

#1354 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 19:38

Depends, could have been living in Norway in the Summer, and the Antarctic in the winter, it could have been a light year, as in time.


So does this mean you can also have a Dark Year?? so 1 dark year = 1 Light year?

Edited by xxiiooiixx, 06 March 2012 - 19:38.


#1355 muramasa

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 20:44


about the front wing, it's quite similar to BGP001 RA109's first version.

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the concept, wider endplates with the endplate itself cut along front wing flaps accompanied by separated fin plate, is to let the air out aggressively to reduce drag and prevent stall and send the air to the rear. It was a success and thought as clever idea, and set the trend for a while. Not a trend anymore now, but what front wings of the current trend do is the same, disperse the air to outside. Nowadays most teams use "inside" of fw endplates and underside of fw, unlike that Brawn above, to achieve the same effect.
That Brawn's might be "primitive" and less effective, but it does the basics.




#1356 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 21:35

OK!

New Picture of the F112 (Pedro's) from Facebook (Jose Gallego Segura - Lead Design Engineer of HRT!)

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But he also responded to the question I asked about the Front Wing:-

Jose Gallego Segura aero upgrates to follow during the season,....also a new front wing. Trying to combine/find the best posible/working aero packaging. The current FW are very powerful , even it showing quiet simple shaped. Redesigned the Rear end (issue area at F111) will realize a better aero balance.etc,etc.


#1357 showtime

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 21:43

Sidepod inlets look very small, is there any frontal picture?

#1358 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 21:46

Sidepod inlets look very small, is there any frontal picture?


He hasn't posted one unfortunately..

#1359 King Six

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 21:50

Yeah those sidepods, specifically the inlet, is very interesting. The car and the Marussia are naturally going to struggle for 107% with practically zero testing, they're going to need stellar practice sessions to get close to it.

I think though, with the midfield and front being so competitive...you're going to see alot more option tyres out in the early stages of qualifying, so that could compound the problem for HRT and Marussia.

Saying that, if the whole team is now closer to each other, maybe that'll play into HRT/Marussia's hands when it comes to getting within 107% until they get to grips with the cars...

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#1360 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 21:57

Yeah those sidepods, specifically the inlet, is very interesting. The car and the Marussia are naturally going to struggle for 107% with practically zero testing, they're going to need stellar practice sessions to get close to it.

I think though, with the midfield and front being so competitive...you're going to see alot more option tyres out in the early stages of qualifying, so that could compound the problem for HRT and Marussia.

Saying that, if the whole team is now closer to each other, maybe that'll play into HRT/Marussia's hands when it comes to getting within 107% until they get to grips with the cars...


I personally don't think the 107% will be problems for HRT/Marussia, OK i know they have not done any testing, but it seems to me 3 free practices will be enough to get them in for Australia and then move on to Malaysia. :p

#1361 Kerch

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 22:01

Sidepod inlets look very small, is there any frontal picture?


If you compare the tiny inlets in that picture with this one:

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It seems to me that they have some kind of attachment on the front which shrinks the inlets.

#1362 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 22:48

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Side by side HRT doesn't really look bad at all can you spot the major differences?

Edited by xxiiooiixx, 06 March 2012 - 22:51.


#1363 showtime

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 23:14

If you compare the tiny inlets in that picture with this one:

It seems to me that they have some kind of attachment on the front which shrinks the inlets.


You're right, in fact that attachment has to different slots. We'll see if they test that configuration in Oz FP.


#1364 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 23:39

You're right, in fact that attachment has to different slots. We'll see if they test that configuration in Oz FP.


Its the same side pods... just a different angle!

#1365 NoDivergence

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:10

Why does the front wing seem so basic? Even last year's looked more sophisticated

#1366 DanardiF1

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:13

Why does the front wing seem so basic? Even last year's looked more sophisticated


It is last years, just with the cascades missing. It's like that presumably because they needed something to put on the car for it to run, and that was the only thing painted and ready.

#1367 Blutch

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:45

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Side by side HRT doesn't really look bad at all can you spot the major differences?

Interesting picture, thanks !


#1368 Petroltorque

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:11

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Side by side HRT doesn't really look bad at all can you spot the major differences?

The major differences are a much lower/ waisted sidepod at the rear and ducting the exhaust outflow towards the top of the floor/ diffuser; in effect a passive EBD. That should not difficult for either HRT or Marussia to replicate as the ran that technology last year.
I to believe they could be up agaist the 107% margin in Melbourne and Sepang. If Caterham have closed the gap to the midfield then 3 established runners will be forced onto the options in Q1 thus having a knock on effect on the other established runners. Sepang will be problematic due to its long lap.

Edited by Petroltorque, 07 March 2012 - 08:19.


#1369 One

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 16:37

Mising steped 2012 nose???? :confused:

#1370 Muzzyf1

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 20:04

Mising steped 2012 nose???? :confused:



The nose doesn't look legal compared to other cars. Just look at relative height I front of front wheels. Maybe the 12 nose is not on it yet?

#1371 cbbcisace

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 22:21

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Just looking at this picture, the FW doesn't fit with the gold cascades onto the nose..



#1372 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 22:22

The nose doesn't look legal compared to other cars. Just look at relative height I front of front wheels. Maybe the 12 nose is not on it yet?

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Compared to the MR01 the HRT step nose is more pronounced.

#1373 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 22:23

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Just looking at this picture, the FW doesn't fit with the gold cascades onto the nose..


Yes I am pretty sure this wont be the nose HRT will run the whole season


#1374 miniq

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 22:47

one ugly A55 CAR

#1375 Petroltorque

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:03

How much improvement HRT can achieve with this car is going to come down to funding. That will determine the development program including whether they can install KERS, The indicators would suggest that they are struggling to find backing, sparse sponsorship, late car. Luizzi's presence within the team would suggest they have not paid off his contract either. Time will tell..

#1376 One

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:46

But the nose is an item for crush test? before the test the car has to be tested....

#1377 hunnylander

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:21

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Just looking at this picture, the FW doesn't fit with the gold cascades onto the nose..

Aesthetically or technically?

That's the way it is, the FW is positioned in the right distance to the tyres etc. Several teams have similar connection between the pillars and FW. Best example is the Williams.

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Aesthetically, IMO:

The gold is too dark and browny. It's should be a more yellowish, lighter shiney gold.

And the red is too much dark magenta.

They wanted to be reminiscent to the Spanish colours, but kind of got it wrongly. It's like only these ugly colours were available and heavily discounted in a paint shop.

#1378 sosidge

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:43

If they can keep the car running until the end of Q1, I think they may find qualifying even easier than last year.

The main performance compromise that the established teams have had to face is the loss of the EBD. Well, HRT never had that anyway.

The only other change is the platypus nose, which is probably not going to affect the cars performance greatly.

With the rest of the field losing up to a second a lap, and HRT losing next to nothing, they'll probably be on the grid if they can keep the old Dallara running (and get it onto the plane for Australia in time). It was always a good design that underperformed due to flaky team bosses who don't pay bills, rather than bad engineering.

#1379 lemec

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:56

The indicators would suggest that they are struggling to find backing, sparse sponsorship, late car. Luizzi's presence within the team would suggest they have not paid off his contract either. Time will tell..


Regarding Luizzi ... Why they should pay him off anything?

It's clear that they are not obliged at all to provide him with a race car nor testing rol (Dani will travel with the team, not tonio) so ... why waste money? In addition, having Tonio there it's a very good warning towards Narain sponsors  ;)

Luizzi's presence it's no an indicator of lack of HRT resources.

Regarding the sposorship, in general, the situation is so far much better that last season with KH7 adding their suport to TATA's and with AZKAR, VARLION, YAMIMOTO and ERMESTEL in addition to panda as official suppliers.

Of course, we could always say that they are "struggling" to find backing ... I think that applies to all the teams, from Renault to Marussia ...

Anyway, I wonder which "indicators" you mean? :confused:

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#1380 lemec

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:00

They wanted to be reminiscent to the Spanish colours ...



I don't think so.

Gold is the corporative colour Thesan has choosen for the team and the dark red is the corporative colour of an important spanish bank very close to the team as well as to LPS himself.



#1381 Ulysses777

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:14

But the nose is an item for crush test? before the test the car has to be tested....

Not required for filming days. That's how Marussia were able to run at Silverstone before passing all the crash tests.

It's quite plausible that HRT would not want to risk damaging a brand new wing for the sake of a filming day/shakedown, hence the old wing.

Anyway, we'll know more in a week.

#1382 hunnylander

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:24

I don't think so.

Gold is the corporative colour Thesan has choosen for the team and the dark red is the corporative colour of an important spanish bank very close to the team as well as to LPS himself.

After looking at it more, I think the red/magenta is OK for me.

It's the 'gold' which I don't find appealing, because I recall when they were testing this year with their 2011 car, which was mostly white, it featured a nicer gold. I liked that gold.

But it may be the lights, these photos were made on late afternoon. It may be even the same gold paint, maybe it'll look better in a stronger daylight. :)

#1383 lemec

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:30

After looking at it more, I think the red/magenta is OK for me.

It's the 'gold' which I don't find appealing,


My case, too.

I would prefered a sort of dark silver grey ....

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#1384 cbbcisace

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 22:10

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New photo from our Engineer friend on Facebook.

The 2 areas I am interested in is that all these photos aren't showing the Nose forward..

Also around the exhaust area, different bodywork to the shakedown bodywork (it was ill fitting) so this looks like the final bodywork.

PS. The F112 are on Freight to Australia!!

Edited by cbbcisace, 08 March 2012 - 22:35.


#1385 showtime

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 23:06

Why is he wearing like he worked for McLaren?

#1386 cbbcisace

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 23:08

Why is he wearing like he worked for McLaren?


He used to work for McLaren ;)

#1387 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 23:53

He used to work for McLaren ;)


Wow cbbcisace this is a great photo :up: :up: :up: and you are right the car looks different from the shakedown one. It is kind of obvious that the front wing will be different.

Yes I was going to ask the same thing whats a Mclaren mechanic doing touching the brand new HRT. Is he the same mechanic the was tweeting about HRT testing the car in the dark?

Please can I ask fro more photos if you can?

Edited by xxiiooiixx, 08 March 2012 - 23:54.


#1388 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 00:01

Wow cbbcisace this is a great photo :up: :up: :up: and you are right the car looks different from the shakedown one. It is kind of obvious that the front wing will be different.

Yes I was going to ask the same thing whats a Mclaren mechanic doing touching the brand new HRT. Is he the same mechanic the was tweeting about HRT testing the car in the dark?

Please can I ask fro more photos if you can?



Don't you think the side pod inlets look pretty narrow??

#1389 MustangSally

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:33

Why is he wearing like he worked for McLaren?


It's the lack of budget unfortunately. HRT employees have to buy their own team strip from charity shops. He just picked up what was in the recycle bin that day.

There's an upside, though. Charity shops are doing quite well in the recession and it's rumoured that HRT may be partnering with Oxfam's Pre Owned Trainers division as an official supplier.


#1390 Petroltorque

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:35

Having read a recent engineering article it seems that teams are still exploiting the exhaust position to replicate EBD effects, albeit without off throttle engine maps. By sealing the diffuser thay can still run the aggressive rake that puts the front wing in near ground effect thus gaining performance. The leading teams have probably already regained any loss downforce.

#1391 hunnylander

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:12

Wow cbbcisace this is a great photo :up: :up: :up: and you are right the car looks different from the shakedown one. It is kind of obvious that the front wing will be different.

Yes I was going to ask the same thing whats a Mclaren mechanic doing touching the brand new HRT. Is he the same mechanic the was tweeting about HRT testing the car in the dark?

Please can I ask fro more photos if you can?

In that post written "Engineer", it's not tha same as a mechanic, although a mechanic may have some sort of an engineer's degree and an engineer can do the work of a mechanic.

No, he's not that former chief mechanic. That guy who reported from Montmeló is happend to be there because he stayed close to motor racing, because he loves it. He's doing consultancy and working for GP2 team(s), and the GP2 test started there in the following day. The GP2 teams were already there preparing for their test on the day HRT did its filming day.

Marc Priestly (drinking champagne) is having a bit more hair:
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#1392 lemec

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:18

Please can I ask fro more photos if you can?



That guy is Jose Gallego Segura. Not a simple mechanicsm but the aero team leader.

He`s on Facebook and posting all these photos almost under demand.

He`s a great chap, keen to answer any question that HRT's fans do  ;)

Just go there and meet him.

#1393 showtime

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:42

16th– 18th March

Albert Park, 58 laps, 5.303km


Madrid, 9thof March 2012


Just three months after packing everything up for the 2011 season in Brazil, the show is back on the road as the 2012 Formula 1 World Championship gets underway in Australia. A renewed HRT Formula 1 Team takes to the track in Melbourne with the F112 having seen the light only a few days ago but with some mileage under its belt. A step forward from last year but having missed out on preseason testing, the Spanish outfit faces a tough challenge at Albert Park next weekend. But the team has proved that with hard work and effort anything is possible.


Albert Park is a street circuit that has been hosting the Australian Grand Prix since 1996. This track is used once a year for the celebration of this event, resulting in very low grip, especially towards the beginning of the weekend, but it improves as the days progress. It is a quick, high downforce track with few straights but plenty of overtaking opportunities and hard braking areas.


Pirelli have elected their medium and soft tyres for the opening round of the season.


Narain Karthikeyan: "I’m feeling positive ahead of the Australian Grand Prix after having completed 10 laps with the new F112 last Monday. Of course this was only a first contact and we didn’t push it to the limit but the important thing was to get the ball rolling. It’s not ideal to miss testing but we must look forward now. The new management have done an incredible job putting everything together and we’ll do the best we can to continue progressing. We’re in the right direction. Last year we only managed to complete five laps in the third practice session and failed to qualify for the race, so I’m looking to etch out that memory”.


Pedro de la Rosa: "After a long winter of hard work, we’ve finally made it to Australia and are really looking forward to trying the car out and continue learning. We need to try and make the most of our time on Friday and Saturday morning to make it to qualifying and the race in the best possible conditions. We would have liked to have come with more mileage but I think it’s an achievement to have made it with a 100% new car and a practically new team. Our aim is to do things well, with seriousness and patience. Albert Park is a circuit I like a lot because there are many overtaking opportunities and hard braking areas, besides various chicanes. It’s a track where you have to drive aggressively and know how to ride over a lot of kerbs. The most important aspect of the car is braking, traction and its top speed, which is why the DRS will play an important role”.


LuisPérez-Sala, Team Principal:"It doesn’t seem true but the first race of the season is already upon us. We’ve spent three months working relentlessly, but the team and the car are ready for the great task ahead of us. We have done a lot of things since the last race of 2011 in Brazil and I’m very proud of the entire team but, without a doubt, the hardest part comes now. We know where we are but also where we wish to be and with the team spirit and sacrifice that we have shown, I’m convinced that we can achieve it



#1394 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:54

It's the lack of budget unfortunately. HRT employees have to buy their own team strip from charity shops. He just picked up what was in the recycle bin that day.

There's an upside, though. Charity shops are doing quite well in the recession and it's rumoured that HRT may be partnering with Oxfam's Pre Owned Trainers division as an official supplier.



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is Varlion a charity shop???
:confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Looks like the car in Spain could actually be the 3rd car , looks like they have been using it for promotional events Antenna 3 and now Varlion. The other 2 should probably be on their way to Oz

Edited by xxiiooiixx, 10 March 2012 - 11:56.


#1395 cbbcisace

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:06

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is Varlion a charity shop???
:confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Looks like the car in Spain could actually be the 3rd car , looks like they have been using it for promotional events Antenna 3 and now Varlion. The other 2 should probably be on their way to Oz


That car is the F110 with F111 parts bolted on...

#1396 macoran

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:31

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is Varlion a charity shop???
:confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Looks like the car in Spain could actually be the 3rd car , looks like they have been using it for promotional events Antenna 3 and now Varlion. The other 2 should probably be on their way to Oz

Old car, see pushrod rear suspension !

#1397 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:42

Old car, see pushrod rear suspension !


Also turning vane mounted wing mirrors, 2010 spec sidepods.

#1398 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 14:51

Also turning vane mounted wing mirrors, 2010 spec sidepods.



You right I didn't look at it properly even the paintwork is slightly different

#1399 cbbcisace

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 22:26

http://a6.sphotos.ak...931492593_n.jpg

The F112's have arrived :)

So much for good old Joe Saward saying that the cars wouldn't arrive in Australia... :rotfl:

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#1400 Myrvold

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 23:32

Are that HRT's car?