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#101 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:58

Liuzzi himself has recently said that he had signed a multi-year deal when he signed for them!


Don't all drivers say that? I hope Liuzzi does stay with the team, I just don't see it.

If he does Dani Clos will be the reserve driver for the team then.

Edited by cbbcisace, 21 November 2011 - 21:58.


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#102 Clatter

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:59

They can give feedback. De La Rosa has a vast amount of experience particularly in testing so he will know which parts are improvements and which parts of the car need improving.


I'll bet the existing drivers can give that feedback. I reckon we could give them a good amount of feedback just from watching the TV, but it's cock all use if the team doesn't\can't produce any new revised parts.

#103 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:02

I'll bet the existing drivers can give that feedback. I reckon we could give them a good amount of feedback just from watching the TV, but it's cock all use if the team doesn't\can't produce any new revised parts.



Please lets not turn this into a flaming thread please... :o

#104 Clatter

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:07

Please lets not turn this into a flaming thread please... :o


I wasn't flaming. IMHO the whole "brings experience" argument is vastly overrated. I don't believe he can say anything about the car that the existing drivers can't. The team simply isn't big enough to be able to bring out new parts in reaction to the comments.

#105 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:10

I wasn't flaming. IMHO the whole "brings experience" argument is vastly overrated. I don't believe he can say anything about the car that the existing drivers can't. The team simply isn't big enough to be able to bring out new parts in reaction to the comments.


Sorry Clatter, just a personal thing I have about people on this forum about the smaller teams.

:up:

#106 DanardiF1

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 23:20

They will get more funding for next year if is true with the sponsors that are signing up with the team.

Dani Clos if he is to be the 2nd driver will have his own funding.

Exciting times....

I do feel sorry for Mr Saward though.... :lol:


After reading Moneyball, Joe reminds me of the old-school scouts who don't look at the stats and performances of the players, just that they look like ball players. Joe thinks Liuzzi sounds like an F1 driver, looks like an F1 driver, and does the bare essentials to be an F1 driver, but doesn't see that he's not quite living up to all the promise he showed in karting...

'Liuzzi is a tools-guy'

Edited by DanardiF1, 21 November 2011 - 23:20.


#107 kurski

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 23:22

This is really great news for Pedro de la Rosa contract HRT.

Is there information about whether the de la Rosa with a big sponsor: Repsol or BBVA?

#108 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:40

My take is that the team have moved to Valencia on the back of public funding. De La Rosa has then taken on the role of pay driver. In the hope of bringing in Spanish Sponsors.
There will be lots of ' experienced' drivers without a drive next year.

#109 xxiiooiixx

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 18:59

I think what this shows is how serious Thesan Capitol are about improving the team. They seem to be progressing well but we will have to wait and see ! HRT looks better off without Mr Carabante.

#110 cbbcisace

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:14

I think what this shows is how serious Thesan Capitol are about improving the team. They seem to be progressing well but we will have to wait and see ! HRT looks better off without Mr Carabante.


Yes finally they seem to have got rid of irresponsible team owners.

#111 jetalt

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:21

This is really great news for Pedro de la Rosa contract HRT.

Is there information about whether the de la Rosa with a big sponsor: Repsol or BBVA?


PdlR told that he does not bring any sponsors.

Besides:

HRT bought a bulding in Valencia, but not one of the buldings used during America's Cup.

The aim is to regroup the team in Valencia.

They have created another team of 45 members.

The trucks belong to the HRT team.

Kolles is merely Team Chef.

-------------

Rumour: It seems that G. v. der Garde would be able to have a chance for the second seat.



#112 Disgrace

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:27

I thought Liuzzi was on a multi-year deal?

I don't think de la Rosa is particularly deserving of a seat, nor van der Garde, but it would be worth it to see the back of bloody Liuzzi who has had, and failed to capitalised, on so many chances to impress and reboot his career. de la Rosa is at least under no such illusions.

#113 Showty

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:27

Pedro is a very nice, polite, calm and down to earth guy.

What i mean is that if he said today "i know it might sound bad, but the team has just born", it is because he really thinks so, although the Carabante family surely won´t like that very much.

He only committed when he saw it was about to get serious, and that only happened when Thesan arrived.

I know they will probably stay at the back of the pack for a while, but things are starting to look promising, they finally look ready to grow.

Regarding Clos, he won´t be an HRT driver in 2012, not even as a reserve, that´s why i think by what Thesan boss said a few weeks ago, he´ll be watched while he´s in GP2, that´s for sure and he will need to make a great season to make it to the list in 2013 ( and i guess Roberto Merhi could be in that list too)

#114 purplejohn

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:30

de la Rosa will bring a lot of McLaren info, which can't be bad plus its good for a spanish team to have a spanish driver

#115 Disgrace

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:34

which can't be bad plus its good for a spanish team to have a spanish driver


Yeah, like having Yuji Ide at Super Aguri can't have been bad. Although this is obviously not the same scenario, nationality is no substitute for talent, and HRT could probably do better with a well-placed gamble on a GP2 driver. But then that's what the second seat is hopefully for, if Liuzzi is paid off/removed.

#116 Myrvold

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 21:12

Pretty much how it was before F1 got way to commercialized.

#117 Ulysses777

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 23:23

Kolles is merely Team Chef.




Sorry, couldn't resist :p

#118 weareracing

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 00:14

Pedro is SUCH good move for the team.
IMHO if he is ousted, seek Rubens for the other seat, you'll have 2 of the keenest set-up and development minds AND competent drivers on the grid.
Leave Lotus/Caterham and Virgin/Marussia in your wake as the true underdogs claim the 1st Championship point, OH YES............

#119 Slyder

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 04:30

I honestly disagree with the enthusiasm here. PDLR is way past his sell-by date, plus I can't see why would he risk putting his rep even in more risk with a team like HRT.

All the best I suppose, but don't expect miracles. Personally, I could've gone with one of the GP2 leaders...

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#120 Petroltorque

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:07

My worry now is if De La Rosa is the bench mark, what will be the performance level> I don't believe that the team will run a heavy development program, not on a 50 million euro budget. De La Rosa might be able to aid car setup, but what the team needs now is outright pace.

#121 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:20

How good is good? How bad is bad?

Is really a discussion of the intangibles, which makes an Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher special and makes a Fisichella, Webber, Barichello 'average'. Few drivers have the extra something which makes them GP winners, and potential WDC drivers. Webber and Barichello have both shown themselves as being able to in the right car, at the right time to be able to battle for multiple wins, and contend for the WDC, but I would argue that they are more seen as very good drivers, rather than great drivers.

Can a team like HRT expect an Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel or Schumacher as their driver? And would we be able to 'see' that a new great driver had emerged? I maintain that one of the best season performances, were Alonso's first, where he technically were placed lower than Tarso Marques, yet showed so much more than that.

Getting a known quantity into the cars must be HRT's first priority, and I personally think that Pedro de la Rosa is a better known quantity than Liuzzi, and age none-withstanding will allow HRT to know where they are with the car, compared to the other teams, and towards whoever ends being his team mate.

Essentially I am of the opinion, that many drivers get a longer career than they 'should' have, since unless you have 'it' then I want to next in line to be given their chance. These rose tinted ideas worked better back in the days, when F1 was not a closed franchise, and when testing could be performed during the season as well.

It is easy for me, not having to foot the bill stating that bringing in a team from either of:

Hulckenberg
Bianchi
Ricciardo
Vergne
Grossjean
Senna

Would be the better option, but I understand that this may not really be true.

:cool:

#122 Petroltorque

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:01

I had thought that HRT had signed De La Rosa on the back of guaranteed sponsorship. It seems now like they've signed him in the HOPE of obtaining major backing. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this Adratn Campos' business plan?

#123 senamic

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:07

I had thought that HRT had signed De La Rosa on the back of guaranteed sponsorship. It seems now like they've signed him in the HOPE of obtaining major backing. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this Adratn Campos' business plan?

As I see it, they have signed him on the following premises:

1. Experience as a tester with McLaren while still being able to deliver solid, if unspectacular results. A car developer that shouldn't cost too much in damaged parts.

2. Patriotism advertising (hey, he attracted Burger King sponsorship at Sauber) past Repsol connections are hopeful (but not the be-all-end-all).

3. Long term development investment (similar to 1, but if it was purely the experience it would make more sense to bring on as an advisor. In this position he is able to actively develop the car).

Frankly, I find it a bit sad how many fans (and otherwise) are reacting. On one hand, if DLR was on as a pay driver people would scream "money hungry eternal backmarkers". If they got 2 GP2 rookies with cash people would say the same thing. They hire DLR for his experience and possible sponsorship potential, and people say "why no money guys? Team is going to die". I can only hope that 2012 and 2013 proves the naysayers wrong, as this season did for the "won't build a car/make the grid/qualify/get out of 12th/blargh".

#124 Petroltorque

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:02

I can't speak for other people, but the reason I'm dissapointed is that PDR is a slower driver than Luizzi and there are rumours saying he is a direct replacement for Luizzi. I'm not convinced about signing a "development driver" as that's an oxymoron. His experience will aid car setup but that itself is dependent on HRT producing a car with a large enough adjustment in the system.
The second reason is that there is no such thing as potential sponsors in F1. You either have the budget nailed down at the start of the season or not at all.

Edited by Petroltorque, 23 November 2011 - 18:50.


#125 Stuko

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:52

... PDR is a lower driver than Luizzi ...


Could you explain how to reach that statement? Some data please, not only personal thoughts or personal affinities.


(hint:
F1 races: PDLR>VL
F1 points: PDLR>VL
F1 points per race: PDLR>VL
F1 fastest laps: PDLR>VL
F1 Podiums: PDLR>VL
Pre F1 achievements: PDLR>VL )


#126 senamic

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:16

Before this becomes a flamewar, I would just like to remind everyone here that the OP states that this is not a thread where we... aggressively compare drivers. Compare, yes, but we don't need to lose sleep over it. Just reminding you chaps, let's keep it civil :)

Edit: Remember, the possibility of a Liuzzi/DLR lineup hasn't been ruled out folks ;)

Edited by senamic, 23 November 2011 - 18:17.


#127 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:25

Before this becomes a flamewar, I would just like to remind everyone here that the OP states that this is not a thread where we... aggressively compare drivers. Compare, yes, but we don't need to lose sleep over it. Just reminding you chaps, let's keep it civil :)

Edit: Remember, the possibility of a Liuzzi/DLR lineup hasn't been ruled out folks ;)


http://translate.goo...rfoJUNUXUbtfciA

Van Der Garde seems favourite for the 2nd seat

Dani Clos as reserve driver.

#128 purplejohn

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:30

http://translate.goo...rfoJUNUXUbtfciA

Van Der Garde seems favourite for the 2nd seat

Dani Clos as reserve driver.


Will he be bringing sponsorship with him?

#129 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:31

Will he be bringing sponsorship with him?


Yes plenty McGregor his biggest sponsor I think?

Edited by cbbcisace, 23 November 2011 - 19:31.


#130 purplejohn

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:38

the fashion label? i think what hrt need is some drivers heavily backed with sponsors

#131 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:51

the fashion label? i think what hrt need is some drivers heavily backed with sponsors


Yes, if they chose either Van def Garde or Sutil they are bringing between €5-10 million

Sutil with Medion and Giedo with McGregor

#132 puxanando

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:48

The new HRT driver :up: :)

#133 jamiegc

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:51

http://translate.goo...rfoJUNUXUbtfciA

Van Der Garde seems favourite for the 2nd seat

Dani Clos as reserve driver.


Van Der Garde retweeted a few days ago an interview he had given to a Dutch newspaper saying that he turned down drives at HRT & Marussia and is only interested in racing for Lotus or Williams.

#134 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:56

Van Der Garde retweeted a few days ago an interview he had given to a Dutch newspaper saying that he turned down drives at HRT & Marussia and is only interested in racing for Lotus or Williams.


Is he going to get a drive at Lotus or Williams?

Guess he is aiming a bit too high....

#135 jamiegc

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:26

Is he going to get a drive at Lotus or Williams?

Guess he is aiming a bit too high....


No chance at Lotus, possible at Williams if Raikkonen falls through.

The point if his interview was that he would rather drive GP2 again than pay €10m to trundle round in an HRT or Marussia.

Realistically this is his last chance for F1 and he will have to be at a backmarker.

#136 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:28

No chance at Lotus, possible at Williams if Raikkonen falls through.

The point if his interview was that he would rather drive GP2 again than pay €10m to trundle round in an HRT or Marussia.

Realistically this is his last chance for F1 and he will have to be at a backmarker.


Yes fully agreed with you, but I think he may have to be more realistic otherwise he will be in GP2 and other series for the rest of his career.

#137 William Hunt

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:32

Van Der Garde retweeted a few days ago an interview he had given to a Dutch newspaper saying that he turned down drives at HRT & Marussia and is only interested in racing for Lotus or Williams.


typical VD Garde arrogance, I'm getting fed up with this guy's media comments. I don't believe a single word of it, no way would he have turned down a chance in F1, even if it's at Marussia or HRT. I don't believe that he is seriously considered by Williams or Lotus unless maybe for a 3rd or 4th driver role.

An experienced driver like de la Rosa is very happy with a seat at HRT but Guido thinks he is too good for them, grow up Guido!

Edited by William Hunt, 23 November 2011 - 22:34.


#138 Slyder

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:35

Yes fully agreed with you, but I think he may have to be more realistic otherwise he will be in GP2 and other series for the rest of his career.


The next Giorgio Pantano is on the cards apparently....

#139 William Hunt

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:39

The next Giorgio Pantano is on the cards apparently....


Pantano at least drove a season with Jordan in F1, something VD Garde will probably never experience if he keeps talking like this in the press. And besides: Pantano is a better driver.

Edited by William Hunt, 23 November 2011 - 22:40.


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#140 cbbcisace

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:40

The next Giorgio Pantano is on the cards apparently....


well I don't know about that :p

#141 Petroltorque

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 05:57

Could you explain how to reach that statement? Some data please, not only personal thoughts or personal affinities.


(hint:
F1 races: PDLR>VL
F1 points: PDLR>VL
F1 points per race: PDLR>VL
F1 fastest laps: PDLR>VL
F1 Podiums: PDLR>VL
Pre F1 achievements: PDLR>VL )

In reply to your suggestion; although not scientifically accurate, the 2010 season Luizzi scored twice as many points as De La Rosa. Thats a comparison up to Italy. After which De La Rosa was sacked for being too slow. Also noteworthy is that Luizzi accumulated points up to that stage over several races whereas De La Rosa's points haul was down to a single result in Hungary.

#142 Wingcommander

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:14

In reply to your suggestion; although not scientifically accurate, the 2010 season Luizzi scored twice as many points as De La Rosa.


And? Points comparison between drivers that drove different cars is...well i think you already know it. I think it's pretty much the same whether it's Liuzzi or de la Rosa, unless their car is much more competitive than this year's. If Pedro is the key for unlocking some spanish cash i find this quite reasonable. Unless they can get a billionaire to the second seat, i still think they should go for a RB rookie.

#143 Petroltorque

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:00

And? Points comparison between drivers that drove different cars is...well i think you already know it. I think it's pretty much the same whether it's Liuzzi or de la Rosa, unless their car is much more competitive than this year's. If Pedro is the key for unlocking some spanish cash i find this quite reasonable. Unless they can get a billionaire to the second seat, i still think they should go for a RB rookie.

Your surmise is entirely accurate, but is was the only way to bring some objectivity to the discussion. I really don't buy into this argument thats being touted about PDR's feedback. We should be asking why he spent most of the past 8 years as a test driver cos if he was quick enough he'd still be racing. The second driver remains a quandry; I think the Red Bull junior drivers will be placed elsewhere and Clos is looking for funding. Speaking of which, I believe that next year is the last year that the "new" teams will receive the startup payouts from Bernie, so sponsorship is now vital.

#144 cbbcisace

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 21:50

Your surmise is entirely accurate, but is was the only way to bring some objectivity to the discussion. I really don't buy into this argument thats being touted about PDR's feedback. We should be asking why he spent most of the past 8 years as a test driver cos if he was quick enough he'd still be racing. The second driver remains a quandry; I think the Red Bull junior drivers will be placed elsewhere and Clos is looking for funding. Speaking of which, I believe that next year is the last year that the "new" teams will receive the startup payouts from Bernie, so sponsorship is now vital.


http://hispaniaracin...ews.php?nid=598

Some interesting answers from this Q&A

#145 Stuko

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 23:12

In reply to your suggestion; although not scientifically accurate, the 2010 season Luizzi scored twice as many points as De La Rosa. Thats a comparison up to Italy. After which De La Rosa was sacked for being too slow. Also noteworthy is that Luizzi accumulated points up to that stage over several races whereas De La Rosa's points haul was down to a single result in Hungary.


Sacked for lack of sponsors, sacked for unfinished business between Sauber-BMW-Heidfeld. You can read what Peter Sauber said in the end of the season and you know whom Peter Sauber picked this year in Canada. You can see qualifying laps and fastest laps an you´ll see "how slow" Pedro was versus Kobayashi... I´ll say you: evenly matched.

About points and a single result.... well, you can see how many races in older points system and how many races in new points system for each driver...

I still can´t understand why VL would be higher driver than Pedro. If you are talking about karting then you are right, for sure. But if you are talking about single-seater or F1.... no way.

I´m a bit tired how some people rated PDLR here.... last year we could read things like he was going to do "a Badoer", he was a pay driver, he was too old, bla bla bla..... but the only true was he drove a crap of car, he was the key for Sauber f-duct and he was a better benchmark for Kamui than Heidfeld was later.

PDLR being HRT driver is a very good new for HRT

#146 Petroltorque

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:28

http://hispaniaracin...ews.php?nid=598

Some interesting answers from this Q&A

Confirms what I was saying about drivers having no input on car design/ development, instead their role is to provide accurate feedback. Interesting that they are using the 2012 Williams box, I suppose it provides more data for Williams engineers. Lets hope that its a better unit than the 2011 version.

Edited by Petroltorque, 25 November 2011 - 17:16.


#147 lemec

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 16:53

2012 Williams box ... and KERS ! :)

#148 Petroltorque

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 17:23

There's an interesting insight into the recent driver appointment. Luizzi has a multiyear deal, so he'd have to be paid off to leave. Thatks why De La Rosa's hiring is so bizarre, he's not bringing funding unless the Spanish owners have already lined up comitted sponsors for next year.

#149 lemec

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 17:32

Breaking the Liuzzi's multi year doesn't mean, necessarily, that the Team has to paid him back but just that Luizzi has not to pay for the races he will not race.

#150 CWeil

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 17:45

Breaking the Liuzzi's multi year doesn't mean, necessarily, that the Team has to paid him back but just that Luizzi has not to pay for the races he will not race.


Liuzzi didn't pay for his drive, so that makes no sense.

Edited by CWeil, 25 November 2011 - 17:45.