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HRT 2012 Thread


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#1501 Siperoth

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 00:56

I think it's up to the FIA to figure out a way to make sure the teams arrive with a minimum of preparation. You can't have teams shaking down their cars in free practice. I mean, the term mobile chicane is often used unfairly, but that's what it was..

Make the last day of testing mandatory, make a day of testing mandatory, even if that means missing the first GP, or something..

It's not good for HRT, or F1, to be ridiculed on TV.. seeing the guys struggling to fit the nosecone on the car, grind some carbon fiber off, try again, etc.. everyone would be much better off if they could have shipped all that stuff to Sepang, and have a proper day of testing/shakedown, IMO.



Ok let's say that during the practices of the first race they really are a mobile chicane. And i ask you. What's bloody wrong with that? Who cares?
Not good for F1? What harm does F1 get exactly? OMG! a car broke during practice!!! Call the police!! The image of F1 is eternally ruined! I mean we had people crushing into others and getting championships, we had people crushing into walls and fixing races, we even had an FIA president getting some nice orgy headlines and we currently have an old man running to prove he isn't tax eventing and paying people under the table. Of course all that are easy to forget. But an HRT BREAKING? DAMN!!!!!! WE ARE RUINED!!

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#1502 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:09

It's not that big a deal, I just think it's not good when a team needs to consistently be given dispensations (scrutineering deadline, 107%)... if that is to be the case then adjust the rules, or enforce them.

My point about mobile chicanes isn't so much about the pace of the car, it's just that there is bound to be problems during a shakedown, and it needlessly creates problems for other people around them.

There's no need to freak out, I just believe F1 is at a point where it could find a way with simple regulations to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Afterall this is the big series..

#1503 understeer

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:39

I don't understand the fuss about HRT. I remember as recently as in 2005 Minardi made the 2005 spec aero parts in the pit garage and fitted to the old car on the day of practice. This is a small team and that's how it goes.


#1504 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:29

HRT have improved there times by roughly 9 seconds of yesterday.... Just shows you what runnning the car does. Could still make 107% yet...

#1505 sesku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:33

HRT is blocking everyone today. Thank you very much!!! :mad:

#1506 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:02

HRT is blocking everyone today. Thank you very much!!! :mad:


Shouldn't be what you expect from 2 experienced racing drivers...

#1507 Petroltorque

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:05

HRT have improved there times by roughly 9 seconds of yesterday.... Just shows you what runnning the car does. Could still make 107% yet...

Unfortunately you are judged by your performance relative to everyone else and they didn't make the 107% margin. With more running everyone is going to get faster and the Q1 pole time will be squeezed further.

#1508 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:11

Unfortunately you are judged by your performance relative to everyone else and they didn't make the 107% margin. With more running everyone is going to get faster and the Q1 pole time will be squeezed further.


Agreed they didn't make the 107% and it would be better if HRT didn't race tomorrow.

I was trying to make the point that time was found just like Pic found 7 seconds between FP1 and FP2... don't forget these are brand new cars..

Edited by cbbcisace, 17 March 2012 - 08:12.


#1509 Sardukar

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:14

FIA and current F1 teams should be helping the back markers get their cars ready to race. Struggling teams like HRT should be allowed to do in season testing etc.

#1510 zyphro

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:14

Mobile chicane!

They better not be allowed to race tomorrow!

#1511 zyphro

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:15

FIA and current F1 teams should be helping the back markers get their cars ready to race. Struggling teams like HRT should be allowed to do in season testing etc.


What the? No, same rules for everyone. They shouldn't have entered the sport if they cannot compete at a decent level.

This is beyond disgraceful.

#1512 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:16

Mobile chicane!

They better not be allowed to race tomorrow!


Please same something a little more original, we have heard this before ;)

Don't people just love coming into this thread when HRT aren't doing well, when we have never seen them before :rolleyes:

Edited by cbbcisace, 17 March 2012 - 08:17.


#1513 sesku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:27

Please same something a little more original, we have heard this before ;)

Don't people just love coming into this thread when HRT aren't doing well, when we have never seen them before :rolleyes:


but that is the truth.


#1514 Petroltorque

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:27

Agreed they didn't make the 107% and it would be better if HRT didn't race tomorrow.

I was trying to make the point that time was found just like Pic found 7 seconds between FP1 and FP2... don't forget these are brand new cars..

Indeed, but whereas Marussia's car design was overseen by Pat Symmonds, I've got grave doubts about the core design of this year's HRT. Ultimately we'll have to wait till Sepang to see where they really are in terms of pace.

#1515 Disgrace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:29

Mobile chicane!

They better not be allowed to race tomorrow!


Short-sighted nonsense. Let them race, otherwise they'll get no running and will be just as bad in Malaysia. They need mileage in order to be competitive or it's a deflationary spiral.

Edited by Disgrace, 17 March 2012 - 08:30.


#1516 Wingcommander

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:36

FIA and current F1 teams should be helping the back markers get their cars ready to race. Struggling teams like HRT should be allowed to do in season testing etc.


I don't think they could even afford to do in season testing. The only reasonable way that i can think of to help the backmarkers, is to give them a share of the FOM price money. Atm the top 10 get it all, Marussia and HRT get nothing. Was it 30 million dollars that was rumoured last year when Caterham finished 10th? That's perhaps the half of HRT's annual budget. Even 10-15 millions for these teams would make a big difference to their financial stability and development programmes.

#1517 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:39

Indeed, but whereas Marussia's car design was overseen by Pat Symmonds, I've got grave doubts about the core design of this year's HRT. Ultimately we'll have to wait till Sepang to see where they really are in terms of pace.


Yes that is what HRT are lacking a experienced TD...

#1518 lokiman

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:39

It's a shame, because I've always been a fan of F1 minnows, but I genuinely can't see a good reason to let them race. While letting them race is probably the best way of helping them out and getting them to improve, you either have the 107% rule, or you don't. If there were special circumstances, I could understand it, but "the car just isn't quick" isn't a special circumstance, in my opinion. Part of me does hope they're allowed to race, mind.

#1519 sesku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:39

Short-sighted nonsense. Let them race, otherwise they'll get no running and will be just as bad in Malaysia. They need mileage in order to be competitive or it's a deflationary spiral.


they already not qualified last year and the same thing happen again this year. HRT don't learn anything from previous mistakes. They need to be teach the hard ways. F1 no charity.


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#1520 Talisman

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:00

I think it's up to the FIA to figure out a way to make sure the teams arrive with a minimum of preparation. You can't have teams shaking down their cars in free practice. I mean, the term mobile chicane is often used unfairly, but that's what it was.


Well the FIA cannot legislate for pace or lack of it beyond banning cars that fail to make the 107% time. By Christmas both HRT and Virgin looked good on paper, both present at the first test at Jerez with their 2011 cars and both aiming to be present at the second Barcelona test with their 2012 cars which had to have passed their crash tests to turn up. They could argue that failing one small crash test completely scuppered their winter, without which they'd have qualified within 107% and there wouldn't have been a problem.

The Virgins had the same amount of running time as the HRTs but aren't a problem because they are several seconds quicker.

If the HRTs carry on failing to make the 107% time they will lose on sponsorship money and fold. Thats what happens to teams not quick enough to even qualify. Its the old brutal but effective way of getting rid of teams that simply are not good enough.


#1521 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:26

:o
It's not about getting rid of them, I'ts about having teams that are ready to compete on day 1..

I mean, we're not that far off, HRT were apparently 2 or 3 hours from being ready(ish)..

My point is about everyone being ready before initial scrutineering and the first FP1, that's it.

You've got 10 teams begging for more testing and two teams not taking advantage of what we already have, not a single day of testing, I think there is a problem there and I'm not saying 'ban their sorry asses'...

Edited by Slowinfastout, 17 March 2012 - 10:27.


#1522 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:30


“@adamcooperf1: #F1 The FIA has confirmed that neither HRT will be allowed to start under the 107% rule”

Edited by cbbcisace, 17 March 2012 - 10:30.


#1523 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:42

Both Cars had no power steering and DRS didn't work either....

#1524 Mastah

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 19:08

Couldn't they modify 2011 car? Or what we are seeing is indeed modified 2011 car? If it is, how on earth they are struggling with power steering and hydraulics? I don't understand that. What is even more embarrasing Mobile Chicane said this:

"It's going to be damn hard in Malaysia," he added. "It's going to be a lot hotter and we have cooling problems already, so it's going to be very hard. We don't want to bullshit ourselves, it's going to be very difficult.

"With HRT I was under a false impression with the new car. I obviously knew there would be problems but I thought we could get in, and I am very wrong.

"I don't see it as a long-term problem but I won't be surprised if Malaysia is the same situation. Back to backs in a situation like this is almost impossible; we have a few small remedies but to work on the hydraulics is a humungous job. It won't happen overnight. By China we should be okay, relatively speaking."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98128


I said some time ago it is

2011 all over again :well:.


I was wrong. It is even worse than last year :well:.


#1525 jals99

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 19:11

Both Cars had no power steering and DRS didn't work either....

Are you sure? It is almost impossible to race modern F1 car without power steering.


#1526 sesku

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 19:16

Are you sure? It is almost impossible to race modern F1 car without power steering.


Caterham did it in 2010, "Lotus Racing" test driver Fairuz Fauzy drove T127 without power steering during pre-season practice.


#1527 Mastah

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 19:20

From the link above:

"I didn't have the DRS working and had issues with the power steering, so we could have easily been in," he told AUTOSPORT.

"The DRS alone is worth about nine tenths, and the power steering is virtually non-existent, it's almost impossible to drive. I think the problem is that the hydraulics are getting so hot, the viscosity of the fluid is thinner."


If they can't get such basic things right, then they shouldn't even think about installing KERS (if they have any money to buy it, that is). Someone could be electrocuted and that's not what we want to see.

#1528 jals99

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 19:25

Caterham did it in 2010, "Lotus Racing" test driver Fairuz Fauzy drove T127 without power steering during pre-season practice.

It was in rain, but very tough for his body, he said if it was dry, he could not test. In 2011 Team Lotus missed two tests days without power steering, they were just running through pits all day.

#1529 jals99

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 19:49

From the link above:



If they can't get such basic things right, then they shouldn't even think about installing KERS (if they have any money to buy it, that is). Someone could be electrocuted and that's not what we want to see.

It was just Karthikeyan problems, so De La Rosa was fine I assume, and Narain did great job to qualify within one tenth from his time

#1530 dau

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:07

From the link above:



If they can't get such basic things right, then they shouldn't even think about installing KERS (if they have any money to buy it, that is). Someone could be electrocuted and that's not what we want to see.

Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever.

#1531 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:21

It was just Karthikeyan problems, so De La Rosa was fine I assume, and Narain did great job to qualify within one tenth from his time


De La Rosa had the same problems...

#1532 Mastah

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:23

Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever.


What doesn't make sense?


#1533 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:24

Couldn't they modify 2011 car? Or what we are seeing is indeed modified 2011 car? If it is, how on earth they are struggling with power steering and hydraulics? I don't understand that. What is even more embarrasing Mobile Chicane said this:



I said some time ago it is



I was wrong. It is even worse than last year :well:.


For the last time it isn't the 2011 car.. If it was they wouldn't be having the problems they are having.

Teams have problems with hydraulics all the time, they control everything.


#1534 rosscamero

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:30

Can anyone recall how much HRT missed the 107% rule by last year?

They quite comfortably qualified both cars for the next race if I remember correct.

#1535 shonguiz

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:34

Apparently Kolles was really helpful. For the love of god, can someone explain to me why every effin year someone steps in, buy the, team let it suffer to death until someone else buy the thing and restart everything again ? Isn't it time to let it die ?

#1536 midgrid

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:37

A bad weekend, but the trackside photography has convinced me that the HRT F112 is the best-looking F1 car this year.

#1537 midgrid

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:39

Can anyone recall how much HRT missed the 107% rule by last year?

They quite comfortably qualified both cars for the next race if I remember correct.


2011 Qualifying

P1 Vettel - 1:25.296/1:23.529 (Q1/Q3)
...
P23 Liuzzi - 1:32.978
P24 Karthikeyan - 1:34.293


#1538 dau

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:40

What doesn't make sense?

Your implication that a nonworking power steering is somehow proof of technical incompetence of the team, which would lead to serious accidents. Every team suffers system failures, malfunctions and faulty devices from time to time. Especially on barely tested cars.

There's of course also human error. Remember the team who actually DID electrocute one of their mechanics? They're in the sport since 1993 and were a manufacturer team at the time that happened. Stop the drama.

Edited by dau, 17 March 2012 - 20:42.


#1539 rosscamero

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:44

2011 Qualifying

P1 Vettel - 1:25.296/1:23.529 (Q1/Q3)
...
P23 Liuzzi - 1:32.978
P24 Karthikeyan - 1:34.293


So quite similar to this year. I recall they caught up with Virgin quite quickly and had two cars ahead of them by Barcelona.

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#1540 cbbcisace

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:47

So quite similar to this year. I recall they caught up with Virgin quite quickly and had two cars ahead of them by Barcelona.


Exactly people love a bit of drama though :p

#1541 rosscamero

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 20:56

Exactly people love a bit of drama though :p


I am not excusing their poor performance today. But they have shown they can improve quickly. I am sure NK will be out quite soon and replaced by another young charger or Luizzi which will help them.

They are not the biggest disappointment today, they probably expected it. That honor goes to Caterham for me.

#1542 Talisman

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 21:22

I am not excusing their poor performance today. But they have shown they can improve quickly. I am sure NK will be out quite soon and replaced by another young charger or Luizzi which will help them.

They are not the biggest disappointment today, they probably expected it. That honor goes to Caterham for me.


I agree about Caterham, they should be better than they are. At least HRT doesn't pretend to be anything other than on the ropes.

NK won't leave, his seat is far more assured than PdlR's. Which driver had his car built first, ready for the day after the Barcelona test? Which one had his car finished with hours to spare? If HRT lose NK they lose Tata. If they lose PdlR they probably won't lose anything.

#1543 IFRLIceman

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 21:59

Get your act together or get out, HRT. This is horribly embarrassing.

#1544 Petroltorque

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:27

AFAIK Both cars were affected by the hydraulics problem. I have said it before; the management at HRT need to accept that they need an experienced TD to trouble shoot these issues. Hydraulics is not a simple issue to get on top of particularly if you need to do a full redesign.

Edited by Petroltorque, 18 March 2012 - 15:55.


#1545 faaaz

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:07

Waste of time.

#1546 Petroltorque

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:06

Out of interest, how long are we giving Karthikeyan before someone presses the eject button?

#1547 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:28

Out of interest, how long are we giving Karthikeyan before someone presses the eject button?


Isn't he there (and considered first driver) because he brings a bag of money?

I don't think it's gonna last long this weekend as they have cooling issues and it's going to be much hotter than Melbourne.

#1548 jamiegc

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 13:19

Isn't he there (and considered first driver) because he brings a bag of money?

I don't think it's gonna last long this weekend as they have cooling issues and it's going to be much hotter than Melbourne.


I believe he was ditched last season due to issues with Tata paying on time. If HRT fail to make Malaysia I can see Tata reconsidering their substantial commitment at which time it's 'find a pay driver'.

#1549 Petroltorque

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 13:29

Is Karthikeyan bringing so much money that the team can't survive without him? I doubt it. I suspect we're going to see Clos in that seat before too long.
On the chassis front, Holzer now admit its too heavy. I suppose that's to be expected since they've never designed an F1 car before.

Edited by Petroltorque, 21 March 2012 - 13:55.


#1550 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 13:30

I believe he was ditched last season due to issues with Tata paying on time. If HRT fail to make Malaysia I can see Tata reconsidering their substantial commitment at which time it's 'find a pay driver'.


We need a list of pay drivers who would brin as much as what Narain is supposedly bringing (€8m)