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HRT 2012 Thread


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#1851 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 20:34

Probably best for HRT to go for high speed given the amount of lap doing so, I presume it must be the traction out of the corners etc that lets them down. Still, a fab effort from PDLR!


Fab effort but Karthikeyan again, is everyone sure that he has a super license :rotfl:

7 - 0 to Pedro in quali and only down to Pedro being bashed into by Pastor at Monaco means he is ahead of Pedro in the standings.

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#1852 DanardiF1

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 21:35

Anyone else has received the member card? #24 here :cool:


#40 right here! :)

#1853 cbbcisace

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 21:39

#40 right here! :)


ohh i haven't received mine yet :down:

#1854 midgrid

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 23:33

From memory, I think this is the team's most competitive qualifying performance ever when compared to the competition. De la Rosa seems very confident in his race prospects, as does Karthikeyan, who messed up his best lap and should be stronger tomorrow. As an aside, it's great to see the three "new" teams almost right on the back of the midfield, instead of the usual couple of seconds slower.

#1855 4MEN

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 23:44

Pedro is doing an amazing job.

#1856 froggy22

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:48

Pedro was 2.4 seconds inside the 107% :eek: and not a million miles away from the caterhams and Vergne. That's impressive. Where are all the people who thought HRT wouldn't get in the 107% on a regular basis?

#1857 cbbcisace

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:10

From memory, I think this is the team's most competitive qualifying performance ever when compared to the competition. De la Rosa seems very confident in his race prospects, as does Karthikeyan, who messed up his best lap and should be stronger tomorrow. As an aside, it's great to see the three "new" teams almost right on the back of the midfield, instead of the usual couple of seconds slower.


It is the most competitive in Q1 the team 103% has been but also compared to Vettel's Q3 time also they where 105% which is the best in their existence !!

#1858 Petroltorque

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 08:20

Probably best for HRT to go for high speed given the amount of lap doing so, I presume it must be the traction out of the corners etc that lets them down. Still, a fab effort from PDLR!

According to De La Rosa the car remains stable in the traction zones. Its the tendency towards snap oversteer that's a handicap. Montreal is trade off between low drag with enough downforce to protect the tyres on dirtection change. How HRT's setup plays out over a race distance will be particularly interesting with the possibility of superceeding higher placed teams on this track layout.

#1859 Prost1997T

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 19:02

Well that was a short race. Karthikeyan bins it, and DLR's brakes give up at less than half distance.

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#1860 cbbcisace

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 20:06

Well that was a short race. Karthikeyan bins it, and DLR's brakes give up at less than half distance.


Both went out with Brakes overheating. :(

#1861 Prost1997T

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 20:18

Both went out with Brakes overheating. :(


I take that back, apparently NK's suspension failed. Still, he was too slow.

#1862 cbbcisace

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 21:47

I take that back, apparently NK's suspension failed. Still, he was too slow.


we keep going over the same thing, Narain needs replacing, problem is that he has sponsorship, so who do you replace him with?

#1863 Prost1997T

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 23:02

we keep going over the same thing, Narain needs replacing, problem is that he has sponsorship, so who do you replace him with?


Cecotto Jr maybe? I'm sure his successful father can bankroll him :lol:

Lotus\Caterham have tied up all of the promising GP2 talent though...

#1864 Petroltorque

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:47

Any replacement is likely to come from Latin America as that region still has money to invest. My guess is the team needs to look towards Mexico, Argentina or even as mentioned earlier Venezuela.
HRT also need to address the failings on their engineering side. We all know from time immemorial that Canada has the highest brake wear, surely they can set the cars up to last more than 20 laps.

Edited by Petroltorque, 14 June 2012 - 06:24.


#1865 understeer

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 00:56

We all know from time immemorial that Canada has the highest brake wear, surely they can set the cars up to last more than 20 laps.


I was surprised by how Pedro missed this. He was all boasting about the top speed on Saturday and everyone knows that its going to be hard on braking if there is less rear wing. May be his experience in good teams did not help here since they wouldn't leave up to the driver to decide on these things.

#1866 Myrvold

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:31

Didn't Sky say that HRT knew this already on Friday, but kinda gave **** about it, and got a good quali.

#1867 Prost1997T

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 04:18

I was surprised by how Pedro missed this. He was all boasting about the top speed on Saturday and everyone knows that its going to be hard on braking if there is less rear wing. May be his experience in good teams did not help here since they wouldn't leave up to the driver to decide on these things.


I'm inclined to blame HRT here. They have major engineering shortfalls and could barely put together two cars for the first race.

#1868 cbbcisace

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 05:57

I'm inclined to blame HRT here. They have major engineering shortfalls and could barely put together two cars for the first race.


But could produce a special wing for Canada?  ;)

Dont forget Glock retired for the same reason.

#1869 cbbcisace

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 05:57

Didn't Sky say that HRT knew this already on Friday, but kinda gave **** about it, and got a good quali.


Big mistake by SKY to assume this btw ;)


#1870 Prost1997T

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 00:18

But could produce a special wing for Canada? ;)


One upgrade, several races into the season, and the old wing was basically a cheap copy of the 2009 Brawn...

Still, the team's somehow managed to make it this far so we'll see what happens at Valencia (last year's performance was pretty poor).

Dont forget Glock retired for the same reason.


His car lasted twice as long at least :p

#1871 cbbcisace

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:51

One upgrade, several races into the season, and the old wing was basically a cheap copy of the 2009 Brawn...

Still, the team's somehow managed to make it this far so we'll see what happens at Valencia (last year's performance was pretty poor).



His car lasted twice as long at least :p


But still retired???? :rotfl:

I'm on about the rear wing that the team made.


Edited by cbbcisace, 14 June 2012 - 07:31.
Removed " Anyway I'm guessing your not a fan so why post in here?" All threads are open to all members.


#1872 SirRacer

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:15

I was surprised by how Pedro missed this. He was all boasting about the top speed on Saturday and everyone knows that its going to be hard on braking if there is less rear wing. May be his experience in good teams did not help here since they wouldn't leave up to the driver to decide on these things.

It's not like they didn't know canada was hard on brakes; they brought their biggest break cooling intakes, they didn't have anything bigger designed for that car. So yes, it's an engineering mistake, they should have known this by the data they had and design a bigger cooling intakes for the brakes. Nothing to do with Pedro.

#1873 Prost1997T

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:41

I'm on about the rear wing that the team made.


Sorry, I misinterpreted. It's still disappointing that the good qualifying runs of late have turned into DNFs.

#1874 cbbcisace

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:54

Sorry, I misinterpreted. It's still disappointing that the good qualifying runs of late have turned into DNFs.



That's ok ;) the team will be very disappointed but clearly and improvement has/is being made so they just have to battle on!

#1875 Muulka

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:07

The thing is that nobody really cares if a backmarker team retires halfway through the race- normally we don't even see it, and often we're not even told about it.

What will get HRT sponsors is showing in qualifying; it's hard facts that they can use.

They can go up to Mr. Spanish CEO and say, "Look, we've got no money, we're barely afloat, but look at how we're faster than a team with a comparatively huge budget! The championship standings mean nothing; it's all about who gets lucky..."

And lo and behold, there is some more writing on the HRT.

You mark my words, HRT will win a championship! (Maybe.... eventually..... possibly.... probably not...)

#1876 Calorus

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:15

As Frank Williams would say, "You can make a fast car reliable, but you can't [usually] make a reliable on fast" HRT really need to be aiming to get basic speed. What's garnered Caterham coverage and fans is duking it out with the big boys, because everyone loves a plucky upstart.

HRT really do have almost the worst imaginable driver line-up, though.

#1877 4MEN

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:11

As Frank Williams would say, "You can make a fast car reliable, but you can't [usually] make a reliable on fast" HRT really need to be aiming to get basic speed. What's garnered Caterham coverage and fans is duking it out with the big boys, because everyone loves a plucky upstart.

HRT really do have almost the worst imaginable driver line-up, though.

So PDLR is the worst imaginable driver? :down:

#1878 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:23

The thing is that nobody really cares if a backmarker team retires halfway through the race- normally we don't even see it, and often we're not even told about it.

What will get HRT sponsors is showing in qualifying; it's hard facts that they can use.

They can go up to Mr. Spanish CEO and say, "Look, we've got no money, we're barely afloat, but look at how we're faster than a team with a comparatively huge budget! The championship standings mean nothing; it's all about who gets lucky..."

And lo and behold, there is some more writing on the HRT.

You mark my words, HRT will win a championship! (Maybe.... eventually..... possibly.... probably not...)

I don't think any Spanish CEO will be parting with their euro's anytime soon. The money stream will have to come from elsewhere. If the team are now developping their own super DRS to qualify higher up, they'll still have to work on race pace to stay ahead.

#1879 Calorus

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:55

So PDLR is the worst imaginable driver? :down:


Okay that's unfair, but they are I think relatively uncontroversially, the two least able drivers in the field, although de la Rosa wasn't so bad when he was younger.

Edited by Calorus, 14 June 2012 - 12:56.


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#1880 cbbcisace

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 13:50

Okay that's unfair, but they are I think relatively uncontroversially, the two least able drivers in the field, although de la Rosa wasn't so bad when he was younger.


They need to get rid of Narain pretty quickly though :(

#1881 Prost1997T

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 00:21

Okay that's unfair, but they are I think relatively uncontroversially, the two least able drivers in the field, although de la Rosa wasn't so bad when he was younger.


Who else would you have had them put there? Algersuari?

#1882 Calorus

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:00

Who else would you have had them put there? Algersuari?


Alguesuari & Buemi are almost undoubtedly faster than either, but there's Valsecchi, Chandok and more than a few others who have a lot less cash, but a lot more talent. If they want to move forward, they will need some drivers with a little more than just financial backing.

#1883 Petroltorque

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:18

Alguesuari & Buemi are almost undoubtedly faster than either, but there's Valsecchi, Chandok and more than a few others who have a lot less cash, but a lot more talent. If they want to move forward, they will need some drivers with a little more than just financial backing.

Adding Chandok to your list must be an oversight. The guy is slower than molasses.

#1884 Calorus

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:22

Adding Chandok to your list must be an oversight. The guy is slower than molasses.


Never more than a tenth (faster or slower) than Bruno Senna? Bruno's no Ayrton, but he's quicker than molasses.

#1885 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 22:43

Never more than a tenth (faster or slower) than Bruno Senna? Bruno's no Ayrton, but he's quicker than molasses.


Very true. His one race drive for Lotus at the Nurburgring last year was dreadful though.

#1886 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 23:52

and fastest yesterday :p


HRT for the win in Monza!!!

#1887 Prost1997T

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 00:23

Alguesuari & Buemi are almost undoubtedly faster than either, but there's Valsecchi, Chandok and more than a few others who have a lot less cash, but a lot more talent. If they want to move forward, they will need some drivers with a little more than just financial backing.


Putting the likes of Alguersauri and Valsecchi in the car is fine, but there's only so much they can do with the equipment as it stands. You're talking as though they're 3 seconds faster or something :p

#1888 Calorus

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:58

Putting the likes of Alguersauri and Valsecchi in the car is fine, but there's only so much they can do with the equipment as it stands. You're talking as though they're 3 seconds faster or something :p


No, I'm talking as though getting some genuine feedback from people who weren't utterly appalling in relatively passable machinery, and showing the sponsors and the engineers that you want to push forward and making just enough money to stay on the grid isn't enough.

None of the above are 3 seconds faster, but most are 0.5 - 1 second faster.

#1889 cbbcisace

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:50

No, I'm talking as though getting some genuine feedback from people who weren't utterly appalling in relatively passable machinery, and showing the sponsors and the engineers that you want to push forward and making just enough money to stay on the grid isn't enough.

None of the above are 3 seconds faster, but most are 0.5 - 1 second faster.


Narain is roughly 1.0s slower than Pedro in every session, in the race he becomes further behind, HRT need a driver like Marussia and Caterham have got, that is on the pace of his team mate or at most 0.4 or 0.5 behind in every session.

Edited by cbbcisace, 16 June 2012 - 09:59.


#1890 Prost1997T

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:53

No, I'm talking as though getting some genuine feedback from people who weren't utterly appalling in relatively passable machinery, and showing the sponsors and the engineers that you want to push forward and making just enough money to stay on the grid isn't enough.


Arrows and Jaguar were passable? I don't think so, and PDLR scored points in them. Hell, he ran 3rd for almost half of Austria 2000 before yet another mechanical DNF. If you mean 2006, well if he was as bad as you imply why didn't McLaren run Hamilton early?

If you mean Karthikeyan, then I've been banging on about that in this thread for some time.

None of the above are 3 seconds faster, but most are 0.5 - 1 second faster.


Valsecchi I believe is tied to a Lotus contract, I don't know what Jaime's long term plans are though. Seems to be DJ'ing right now :lol:

#1891 cbbcisace

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:16

Arrows and Jaguar were passable? I don't think so, and PDLR scored points in them. Hell, he ran 3rd for almost half of Austria 2000 before yet another mechanical DNF. If you mean 2006, well if he was as bad as you imply why didn't McLaren run Hamilton early?

If you mean Karthikeyan, then I've been banging on about that in this thread for some time.



Valsecchi I believe is tied to a Lotus contract, I don't know what Jaime's long term plans are though. Seems to be DJ'ing right now :lol:


I can see someone like a Jonny Ceccotto Jr joining HRT, young and has sponsorship.

It be pretty interesting if Valsecchi is tied in at Lotus.

#1892 jals99

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:48

Karthikeyan is a lot better than Chandhok, Chandhok is rubbish, Narain was a lot faster in lower formulas, and was not bad in Jordan. And Chandhok was a lot slower than Bruno in HRT, Bruno just had a lot of car problems. And his drive in German 2011 was awful, no surprise his contract as Caterham reserve was not extended, despite his family being Tony's friends, and now he continues to crash cars in Le Mans

Edited by jals99, 16 June 2012 - 10:53.


#1893 cbbcisace

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:00

Karthikeyan is a lot better than Chandhok, Chandhok is rubbish, Narain was a lot faster in lower formulas, and was not bad in Jordan. And Chandhok was a lot slower than Bruno in HRT, Bruno just had a lot of car problems. And his drive in German 2011 was awful, no surprise his contract as Caterham reserve was not extended, despite his family being Tony's friends, and now he continues to crash cars in Le Mans


jals99 is right, Bruno in 2010 had all the sub standard parts in the F110 because he didn't pay for his ride, where as Chandhok did.


#1894 midgrid

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 14:08

Valsecchi I believe is tied to a Lotus contract, I don't know what Jaime's long term plans are though. Seems to be DJ'ing right now :lol:


I know the Lotus name situation is confusing, but I think you mean Caterham (although the deal may have expired since last year). Alguersuari is the Pirelli test driver and he is also doing radio commentary for the BBC, so I think he is trying to get back into a race seat (unlike his old team-mate Buemi, who has become a firm sportscar convert with Toyota).


#1895 Calorus

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 15:53

Arrows and Jaguar were passable? I don't think so, and PDLR scored points in them. Hell, he ran 3rd for almost half of Austria 2000 before yet another mechanical DNF. If you mean 2006, well if he was as bad as you imply why didn't McLaren run Hamilton early?

If you mean Karthikeyan, then I've been banging on about that in this thread for some time.



Valsecchi I believe is tied to a Lotus contract, I don't know what Jaime's long term plans are though. Seems to be DJ'ing right now :lol:


I've been clear about PdlR having had reasonable pace in his youth, but even before arriving at Sauber in 2010, it had deserted him.

McLaren not running Hamilton early was clear from what they said and what they did: they wanted to protect him and give him a proper pre-season and induction, and refused point blank to risk it -- if you dust off some old Autosports, you'll notice Hamilton was already faster at test sessions.

de la Rosa was a solid reasonable-to-okay in his youth. He's now 41 and while Schumacher has gone from exceptional to good, PdlR was barely if ever truly good.

ETA: Just to note, I got bored going through stats, but I invite you to find an occassion in 2006 when he was with 0.6 seconds of Raikkonen.

Edited by Calorus, 16 June 2012 - 16:00.


#1896 Calorus

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 16:03

Arrows and Jaguar were passable? I don't think so, and PDLR scored points in them. Hell, he ran 3rd for almost half of Austria 2000 before yet another mechanical DNF. If you mean 2006, well if he was as bad as you imply why didn't McLaren run Hamilton early?

If you mean Karthikeyan, then I've been banging on about that in this thread for some time.



Valsecchi I believe is tied to a Lotus contract, I don't know what Jaime's long term plans are though. Seems to be DJ'ing right now :lol:


Jaime's always DJing.
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#1897 Petroltorque

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 16:30

It's possible that Toto Wofle might place Bottas in the seat in exchange for the transmission.

#1898 Calorus

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 16:44

jals99 is right, Bruno in 2010 had all the sub standard parts in the F110 because he didn't pay for his ride, where as Chandhok did.


My main issues with this: HRT did almost no substantive development from the start to the end of that season, Senna was also a pay driver (Embratel, Senna Foundation and the Senna Family) in fact Senna's funding was strong enough to last the season while Chandhok was bumped once the cheques started bouncing. I've never seen anything with objectively separated the two, in fact if you analyse their 2008 seasons at iSport you notice that it was more Chandhok's proclivity to find an accident than any major lack of pace that separated them.

Edited by Calorus, 16 June 2012 - 16:48.


#1899 cbbcisace

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 18:26

It's possible that Toto Wofle might place Bottas in the seat in exchange for the transmission.


Thats if HRT continue with the Williams deal, it runs out at the end of the season.

Edited by cbbcisace, 16 June 2012 - 18:31.


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#1900 Petroltorque

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:27

Thats if HRT continue with the Williams deal, it runs out at the end of the season.

I was refering to the possibilty of Bottas replacing Karthikeyan THIS season.