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HRT 2012 Thread


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#1951 Myrvold

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:11

Ma Qing Hua cries after testing F1 car at Silverstone.
Got respect there!

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#1952 dau

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:35

Ma Qing Hua cries after testing F1 car at Silverstone.
Got respect there!

Mark Wing Hooray? Really? Couldn't they really just ask someone about the correct pronunciation? Also, why cry? The car can't be that bad...

@mechadaniel: I don't think there was much damage on Heikki's car. He just lost loads of time in his third stint on Primes when Glock was on the Options.

#1953 cbbcisace

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:48

Aren't these individuals all Holzer employees as opposed to contracted HRT design staff?


Yes they are because HRT are keeping them until they bring the whole Design team to Madrid.

#1954 Ulysses777

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:49

Mark Wing Hooray? Really? Couldn't they really just ask someone about the correct pronunciation?


If some people struggled with "Coul-tard", then I wouldn't get your hopes up with this one.

#1955 cbbcisace

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:51

Mark Wing Hooray? Really? Couldn't they really just ask someone about the correct pronunciation? Also, why cry? The car can't be that bad...

@mechadaniel: I don't think there was much damage on Heikki's car. He just lost loads of time in his third stint on Primes when Glock was on the Options.


Tony Fernandes did mention something about loss of downforce on Heikki car..

#1956 Myrvold

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 21:51

Also, why cry? The car can't be that bad...


Far from the first time I've seen that joke! :p

Nah, I guess I would do the same if I was allowed to test an F1 car!

#1957 mechadaniel

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 17:47

@mechadaniel: I don't think there was much damage on Heikki's car.


I've seen no footage of the indecent which happened at turn 6 lap 1, Hekki downplayed it at the time leaving the team pretty confused by the numbers they were seeing, he later reported he became airborne... TF, John Iley and Tom Webb have all since written about extensive damage to the car.


#1958 Petroltorque

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:39

Yes they are because HRT are keeping them until they bring the whole Design team to Madrid.

And therein lies the problem for HRT. Although they have centralised their headquarters they have yet to hire their own design staff. It will take years to acquire F1 expertise unless they attract experienced engineers.

#1959 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 14:24

I would have thought that HRT would be already looking towards 2013 car design by then, considering that they only have a staff of 75, not all of whom are engineers.

!! Great point. :)

Let's assume they have a design department of 15-20 people, with 30 people to build the cars and a race crew that requires some doubling up of duties... while Ferrari and Red Bull have 150 people in their design department (chassis) and 200 people to build the parts, paint them, test them etc and 50 people to put them together and go to the race tracks, drive the trucks, clean and number the wheels/wheel nuts and so on!


Many of those contractors (like for the tubs) will be selling expertise in composite optimisation as well as an actual product to Hispania, so it is less ardous as constructing everything in house, maybe?

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#1960 cbbcisace

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 16:55

!! Great point. :)

Let's assume they have a design department of 15-20 people, with 30 people to build the cars and a race crew that requires some doubling up of duties... while Ferrari and Red Bull have 150 people in their design department (chassis) and 200 people to build the parts, paint them, test them etc and 50 people to put them together and go to the race tracks, drive the trucks, clean and number the wheels/wheel nuts and so on!


Many of those contractors (like for the tubs) will be selling expertise in composite optimisation as well as an actual product to Hispania, so it is less ardous as constructing everything in house, maybe?


Its the only way until HRT get their staffing level to 150+

By the end of this year they will have 110/120 staff.

#1961 MustangSally

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 17:20

By the end of this year they will have 110/120 staff.


By when do you think they will have a competitive car?


#1962 cbbcisace

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 18:10

By when do you think they will have a competitive car?


Depends what you define by competitive? :rolleyes:

They have been close to Marussia this year, so on Caterham level?

Teams like HRT will be limited on what they can do on the size of its employees, Caterham have probably double and maybe web more, Marussia probably 40/50 more at the moment.

Edited by cbbcisace, 16 July 2012 - 18:14.


#1963 cbbcisace

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 20:18

And therein lies the problem for HRT. Although they have centralised their headquarters they have yet to hire their own design staff. It will take years to acquire F1 expertise unless they attract experienced engineers.


Just for info Mark Tatham is HRT's Chief Designer who now is situated in Madrid.

#1964 cbbcisace

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 19:22

Former Williams, Toyota and Lotus Racing designer Mark Tatham has taken up the role of Chief Designer at HRT #F1

#1965 cbbcisace

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 18:51

Rumor is that Narain has only got sponsorship from Tata and new companies for the until the Indian GP.

Its then either Clos or Liuzzi for the last 3 races.

#1966 Disgrace

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 00:13

My God not more Liuzzi, for the love of Christ, no. Clos is, hopefully, more likely to get the seat anyway.

#1967 VARGR

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:56

My God not more Liuzzi, for the love of Christ, no. Clos is, hopefully, more likely to get the seat anyway.


Isn't Liuzzi now long gone? I seen him at the teams first test run, but after that there has been no sign of him and some harsh words about F1 contracts not being honoured. I doubt hel be back. Yea I would love to see Clos in the seat as it would then be an all Spanish team which is nice to see (much as Minardi was always hiring Italian drivers with Alonso being the exception). That said the team would be better of if they can get someone else who can bring in much needed sponsors to allow them to progress better.

#1968 cbbcisace

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:08

Isn't Liuzzi now long gone? I seen him at the teams first test run, but after that there has been no sign of him and some harsh words about F1 contracts not being honoured. I doubt hel be back. Yea I would love to see Clos in the seat as it would then be an all Spanish team which is nice to see (much as Minardi was always hiring Italian drivers with Alonso being the exception). That said the team would be better of if they can get someone else who can bring in much needed sponsors to allow them to progress better.


Liuzzi still is an HRT driver until the end of the year, plus in an interview he said he hoped to drive in F1 in the next 2-3 months.

#1969 pikamoku

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:52

BTW (sorry Liuzzi), we can hear (loudly) Mac-fans/McLaren-it-self complaining about "switching on" the tyres and that kind of stuff, do HRT have such a problem? I mean, they lack of DF (huge diference compare to frontrunners), but they not complain about tyres! I know they have a big ToDo list, and maybe the tyres issue is not their priority.

#1970 Petroltorque

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 18:04

BTW (sorry Liuzzi), we can hear (loudly) Mac-fans/McLaren-it-self complaining about "switching on" the tyres and that kind of stuff, do HRT have such a problem? I mean, they lack of DF (huge diference compare to frontrunners), but they not complain about tyres! I know they have a big ToDo list, and maybe the tyres issue is not their priority.

HRT's car has the worse tyre deg of all the new teams. The natue of Pirelli's rubber means it delivers peak performance over a single lap but over a race stint if you lack downforce they degrade at an alarming rate. I'm afraid Holzer have done a pretty poor job optimising this present chassis.

Edited by Petroltorque, 21 July 2012 - 18:08.


#1971 Prost1997T

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 21:45

Not a bad race from PDLR, mixing it up with the Marussia cars.

#1972 joshb

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 21:48

HRT's car has the worse tyre deg of all the new teams. The natue of Pirelli's rubber means it delivers peak performance over a single lap but over a race stint if you lack downforce they degrade at an alarming rate. I'm afraid Holzer have done a pretty poor job optimising this present chassis.


I noticed early on, the leaders were 1:22s and HRTs 1:25 but within 7 or 8 laps the HRTs were already in the 1:26s whilst those cars with the downforce got quicker (1:21s) as the fuel burnoff outweighed tyre deg at that point.

HRT may as well do a normal stint for 15 laps or so and then once they're within a few seconds of being lapped by the leader(s), pit for new rubber and keep pitting every 10/12 laps to minimise traffic time loss. Like a 3 stopper with a longer than usual 1st stint. Or even a 4 stopper.

#1973 Petroltorque

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:32

I noticed early on, the leaders were 1:22s and HRTs 1:25 but within 7 or 8 laps the HRTs were already in the 1:26s whilst those cars with the downforce got quicker (1:21s) as the fuel burnoff outweighed tyre deg at that point.

HRT may as well do a normal stint for 15 laps or so and then once they're within a few seconds of being lapped by the leader(s), pit for new rubber and keep pitting every 10/12 laps to minimise traffic time loss. Like a 3 stopper with a longer than usual 1st stint. Or even a 4 stopper.

More stops will work only with a short pit lane. The simplest solution is to find more downforce to counterract the tyre slip. HRT are the the only team not using the exhaust to blow the floor or rear wing and their front wing remains years out of date.

#1974 cbbcisace

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 18:49

LPS in an interview to Marca today said the F113 has been in design since June with the new Chief Designer Mark Tatham and his design team.

#1975 HistoryFan

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 21:41

There are rumours about Australian business men Clive Palmer will buy HRT

#1976 wonk123

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:18

Clive also wants to build a new version of the titanic!

I wonder which one will stay afloat longest :rotfl:

#1977 packapoo

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:02

There are rumours about Australian business men Clive Palmer will buy HRT


Go Clive baby, will be a fantastic match up.

With his Titanic project, ore carrier project to carry ore to his sinking refinery, plan to discharge from his tailing ponds at said refinery to the Great Barrier Reef, etc etc Clive likes grabbing publicity.
(I think tho he was the major backer for Dick Johnson Racing, way back when so is motor sport aware. Which I guess is a plus). :rolleyes:

#1978 pikamoku

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:22

doesnt know mr.Palmer how to spend his money? why does he need a F1 team? it makes no sense to me, but TBH, I've no clue about it. It could be some kind of comercial agreement, put some cash, bring his driver, title sponsoring,etc., but a long term deal like buying a team doesnt seem likely. IMO

BTW, thanks for the "tyre management" info ;)

and nice to see Pedro fighting Marussia and ... where was Narain? I respect him, but he's not a F1-level driver. Sorry mate. I know he's there cause of TATA money, but does TATA get some good return (in India, of course) for having him in HRT? I doubt it.

#1979 Wingcommander

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:21

and nice to see Pedro fighting Marussia and ... where was Narain? I respect him, but he's not a F1-level driver. Sorry mate. I know he's there cause of TATA money, but does TATA get some good return (in India, of course) for having him in HRT? I doubt it.


Narain was only 5 secs behind Pedro, so it wasn't that bad. Yes, Pedro beat the struggling Glock, but Pic was a full minute ahead of them. I expected more from the HRTs.

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#1980 cbbcisace

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:36

Narain was only 5 secs behind Pedro, so it wasn't that bad. Yes, Pedro beat the struggling Glock, but Pic was a full minute ahead of them. I expected more from the HRTs.


Was the reason Pic was so at ahead because he didn't have to slow down as much for the blue flags? I mean it can add seconds on to the laptimes.

#1981 Wingcommander

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:52

Was the reason Pic was so at ahead because he didn't have to slow down as much for the blue flags? I mean it can add seconds on to the laptimes.


Laptimes. Looks pretty consistent to me, but sure the blue flags are always a factor. Pedro's 2nd stint with used(!) softs was an...interesting choice.

#1982 wonk123

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:32

Go Clive baby, will be a fantastic match up.

With his Titanic project, ore carrier project to carry ore to his sinking refinery, plan to discharge from his tailing ponds at said refinery to the Great Barrier Reef, etc etc Clive likes grabbing publicity.
(I think tho he was the major backer for Dick Johnson Racing, way back when so is motor sport aware. Which I guess is a plus). :rolleyes:


No, that was Ross Palmer that owned Palmer Tube mills who sponsored Dick Johnson with True Blue and then Red Roo Pipes. I wish Ross had Clive's money and wanted HRT, I would have confidence in it then.

#1983 Petroltorque

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:45

Was the reason Pic was so at ahead because he didn't have to slow down as much for the blue flags? I mean it can add seconds on to the laptimes.

That had nothing to do with it. Pic was lapping at the same level as both Caterhams in the 1:22s. Yes he was lapped later but both HRTs were in the 1:24s at that time. Glock was nowhere and got picked off by De La Rosa but as I suspected Marussia have made a massive gain with their upgrade. Next 2 races don't favour the HRT chassis either, they could even be on the bubble around Spa.

Edited by Petroltorque, 25 July 2012 - 11:47.


#1984 cbbcisace

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:23

That had nothing to do with it. Pic was lapping at the same level as both Caterhams in the 1:22s. Yes he was lapped later but both HRTs were in the 1:24s at that time. Glock was nowhere and got picked off by De La Rosa but as I suspected Marussia have made a massive gain with their upgrade. Next 2 races don't favour the HRT chassis either, they could even be on the bubble around Spa.


HRT have been no where near 107% since Australia what makes you feel they will now?

There are upgrades coming to the car from Spa.

And BTW I acknowledge Marussia have made a gain and it seems to be working.

Edited by cbbcisace, 25 July 2012 - 12:25.


#1985 Petroltorque

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:43

HRT have been no where near 107% since Australia what makes you feel they will now?

There are upgrades coming to the car from Spa.

And BTW I acknowledge Marussia have made a gain and it seems to be working.

One reason is that I don't share your optimism about these 'upgrades'. As for Spa I suggest wait and see...

#1986 BRG

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 19:39

There are rumours about Australian business men Clive Palmer will buy HRT

Good news - what HRT really needs is yet another change of ownership, with a move to new premises timed so that they miss 2013 testing.

#1987 cbbcisace

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 21:19

Good news - what HRT really needs is yet another change of ownership, with a move to new premises timed so that they miss 2013 testing.


There a bit stupid these rumours aren't they? no substance to them what so ever?

#1988 mprtc

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:29

doesnt know mr.Palmer how to spend his money? why does he need a F1 team? it makes no sense to me, but TBH, I've no clue about it. It could be some kind of comercial agreement, put some cash, bring his driver, title sponsoring,etc., but a long term deal like buying a team doesnt seem likely. IMO

BTW, thanks for the "tyre management" info ;)

and nice to see Pedro fighting Marussia and ... where was Narain? I respect him, but he's not a F1-level driver. Sorry mate. I know he's there cause of TATA money, but does TATA get some good return (in India, of course) for having him in HRT? I doubt it.



Karthikeyan has good following in india .... and kartikeyan bein in F1 is benefiial for not only TATA but whole F1 as India is a huge market .... lots of sponsers are from india

#1989 showtime

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 13:46

La Caja Mágica:

And a new floor for this weekend!

#1990 Disgrace

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 17:23

Narain out-qualifying Pedro by a second on what is being considered a "drivers circuit"? ;)

#1991 Prost1997T

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:32

Narain out-qualifying Pedro by a second on what is being considered a "drivers circuit"?;)


PDLR had a gearbox change, so there was no point in him doing a fast lap only to be moved back to 24th anyway.

Edited by Prost1997T, 22 September 2012 - 18:33.


#1992 William Hunt

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:07

Great qualifying performance by de la Rosa today in Suzuka.

#1993 Little Leaf

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:11

Great qualifying performance by de la Rosa today in Suzuka.


:up:

#1994 Myrvold

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:15

One word: YEEEAAAAHHH!!!

#1995 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:35

One word: YEEEAAAAHHH!!!


Good to see the updates work on a high downforce track, bodes well for the rest of the season.

Great qualifying by Pedro though, lets hope next years car is better :p

#1996 showtime

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:17

Very close to Marussia and not so far from Caterham. Nice job by the team.

#1997 William Hunt

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:37

Karthikeyan was very quick too this weekend, he set some excellent times in free practice, but he had technical problems in qualifying.

#1998 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:53

Karthikeyan was very quick too this weekend, he set some excellent times in free practice, but he had technical problems in qualifying.


He did, but is he driving out of his skin so he has a drive next season?

#1999 Prost1997T

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:52

Very close to Marussia and not so far from Caterham. Nice job by the team.


Seems the HRT cannot maintain that pace over a race distance though, and matching Glock's 12th place last time out would require heavy attrition.

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#2000 cbbcisace

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:10

Seems the HRT cannot maintain that pace over a race distance though, and matching Glock's 12th place last time out would require heavy attrition.


Yes that's what the floor has been brought in for... Seemed to be pretty close in free practice long runs.