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New circuit to be built in Wales [merged]


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#1 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:08

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-15806133

No planning application yet but talks ongoing backed by "London financiers".

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#2 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:50

Wales could be a great opportunity for a track with a lot of gradient changes. However the industrial estate named in the article appears to be relatively flat, and a dead cert for noise abatement orders from the residents of Ebbw Vale.

#3 Pharazon

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:11

never gonna happen

#4 Peat

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:36

Wales already has the finest race circuit in the British Isles - Glan-Y-Gors!

Don't think you'd get a MotoGP bike around it very fast though....



#5 BRG

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:42

Wales already has the finest race circuit in the British Isles - Glan-Y-Gors!

Don't think you'd get a MotoGP bike around it very fast though....

I got a Renault van round it quite fast (well it seemed fast to me, and all the stuff in the back fell over).

I liked this bit from the BBC article "delivering a low carbon automotive centre of excellence in Blaenau Gwent" - how much BS can people deliver with a straight face? It will certainly be low carbon as I doubt it will ever happen. What about Pembrey or Llandow anyway? Why not develop Llandow and save a fortune over using a greenfield site?

Edited by BRG, 21 November 2011 - 11:42.


#6 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:48

For one thing, it'd be nice to have another circuit that isn't a flat ex-airfield conversion.

#7 Bloggsworth

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:12

The circuit 5th Gear use in North Wales ain't flat.

#8 Sakae

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:13

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-15806133

No planning application yet but talks ongoing backed by "London financiers".



No kidding; where is money coming from again, and moreover, is this is to be in addition or in lieu of Silverstone?

#9 Burtros

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:15

Rassau Estate is a bit like a race track anyway. Wide roads and lotsa of straights, very funny place. Am a regular visitor to a customer on there.

Its also pretty flat, although the road links are pretty good with dual carriage ways.

#10 windoesnot

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:28

Wales already has the finest race circuit in the British Isles - Glan-Y-Gors!


I could not agree any higher with this statement :clap:

One of the best kart tracks anywhere

#11 BRG

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:28

So are they proposing to evict all the commercial tenants from the Estate? That's not going to generate jobs! And with a large housing estate right next door, there are definitely never going to be any noise issues....

#12 johnmhinds

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:39

So are they proposing to evict all the commercial tenants from the Estate? That's not going to generate jobs! And with a large housing estate right next door, there are definitely never going to be any noise issues....


Sounds like they just want to extend the commercial estate and this under funded circuit that will never happen is just a carrot to waggle in front on the local nimbys as a distraction.

Something for the nimbys to score a victory and get cut from the development while the developers build what they really want.

#13 jonnoj

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:38

When we read Bernie supports the application, we'll know it's doomed.



#14 Luca Pacchiarini

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 20:31

Anglesey is very fun to drive (at least in racing sims) so I'm looking forward to another track of that calibre...
It would be nice to see international races in Wales... have there ever been one?

#15 BRG

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:03

British F3 has raced at Pembrey.

#16 Rob29

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 09:40

British F3 has raced at Pembrey.

A British national meeting I think?
Seriously this project does not sound very promising.How about the centre of Cardiff?

#17 tifosiMac

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 09:44

My wife is from Ebbw Vale and I'm up there quite alot visiting. The place needs some form of industry and fast, and this would be excellent. I hope it becomes a reality. :)

#18 BRG

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:25

A British national meeting I think?

It is an international series, with non-UK drivers and with races held outside the UK (eg Spa).

#19 BRG

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:27

My wife is from Ebbw Vale and I'm up there quite alot visiting. The place needs some form of industry and fast, and this would be excellent. I hope it becomes a reality. :)

What about the current Rassau Industrial Estate (which was built with WDA money, I understand)? Surely that is more useful to the area than a race track used four or five weekends a year?

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#20 tifosiMac

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:01

What about the current Rassau Industrial Estate (which was built with WDA money, I understand)? Surely that is more useful to the area than a race track used four or five weekends a year?

The old steel works site would have been a better area IMO, but I suppose with hills on either side, the noise would be awful for residents. A very flat area though. There are so many empty industrial units up there its difficult to weigh up IMO. Unemployment is about as worse as it gets up there and its not just a case of having a few units to house businesses, the area is also in need of something inspirational IMO. Kids up there just don't see the point in working in many cases. Cardiff seems like worlds away and people just don't have the money to travel for work. Parents have brought their kids up on benefit money and the kids are now at an age where they are able to look for jobs and factories like UK Can, and Corus are either gone or downgraded. In the early 90's the Garden Festival site provided alot of work and hope. Ron Skinner's has done alot for the area providing sales and driver jobs, but its not enough in the grand scheme of things. I admit a track is not going to be the answer to everybodies prayers but it has promised to bring over a thousand jobs and its just what the area needs IMO. :)

Edited by tifosiMac, 22 November 2011 - 11:01.


#21 BRG

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:12

Well, if it brought 1000+ jobs, then I agree it would be a good thing, but I don't really see how a new track in this location is going to attract jobs. Even major tracks like Silverstone, in the heart of the UK's motorsport valley, probably barely manages that. A track in Blaenau Gwent isn't going to achieve that, or anything like it. This claim, like the one of "delivering a low carbon automotive centre of excellence in Blaenau Gwent" is just PR puff nonsense with zero substance.

A depressed area needs REAL investment, not this sort of fluff. Maybe if governments thought about reducing the fixed costs to business and the obstacles to employing people, we might make some progress in generating jobs and economic growth. But perhaps that's a topic not suited to this forum!

#22 FlatOverCrest

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:21

A depressed area needs REAL investment, not this sort of fluff. Maybe if governments thought about reducing the fixed costs to business and the obstacles to employing people, we might make some progress in generating jobs and economic growth. But perhaps that's a topic not suited to this forum!


SILENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You speak too much sense here!

#23 FredrikB

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:55

If laws and regulations in Wales is anywhere near the Swedish ones, i wouldn't hold my breath.
These guys has been at it since 1998, and they have the local community behind them.
http://www.vikingmotorpark.com/

But its not a dead project afaik.
They are finalizing the environmental permits right now according to the website.
The city council voted for it this may (they voted 47-4 in favour of it).

#24 Risil

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 13:13

Well, they seem to have secured enough investment to go on with the planning. Building an international-standard racetrack and automotive cluster (gotta have your automotive cluster) in the Brecon Beacons seems a bit wtf, but Cardiff, Swansea and the West Country (you can drive from Bristol to Ebbw Vale in an hour) aren't served too well with big circuits. Pembrey and Castle Combe only hold club-level events now.

And as a spectator I find Silverstone immensely unlikeable. I prefer to drive about an hour further to visit Donington Park when I have the choice, and I'd probably do the same with a nice circuit in South Wales.

I don't know much of the funding details, but infrastructure spending should be a priority in Wales. In many parts it's almost like another country.

Edited by Risil, 15 August 2012 - 13:20.


#25 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 14:02

Wales could be a great opportunity for a track with a lot of gradient changes. However the industrial estate named in the article appears to be relatively flat, and a dead cert for noise abatement orders from the residents of Ebbw Vale.


Why? They have very loud choirs down that way...

#26 David1976

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 15:02

never gonna happen


I have some inside information that it might.

#27 thiscocks

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 15:21

Atleast they wont have to worry about allocating dry tyres

#28 Tonka

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 16:22

In a country where town hall clocks are muted because their chimes are upsetting incomers, who in their right mind is going to put money into a circuit that sits in a valley surrounded by high hills? The noise is going to echo down the valley for miles.

No way will there be work for 1,000 on race weekends. Most of the people involved at the track will be volunteers - like they are at all other motor events.

Course, it might be the first race track with a shepherd in residence !



#29 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:08

They have a website up, with a higher resolution image of the layout
http://circuitofwales.com/
http://circuitofwale...image-large.jpg

Using google earth, it's clearly less flat than Silverstone, but it's shame they're not aiming a mile north.

#30 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 17:10

At least it looks fairly flowing.

#31 bub

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 20:00

Atleast they wont have to worry about allocating dry tyres



:lol: True.

#32 grandmastashi

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:35

My Dad worked at the site up until last year before the company he works for relocated... just told him about the news and he said this:

I have heard talk about that before but cannot understand why anyone would want to invest in such a thing in that location. As it rains or snows 90% of the time it would be an awful place to stand and what motorsport. I would really be surprised if it actually happens.



#33 Risil

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:33

Yeah, having a circuit in an economically-deprived region, up in the hills, constantly threatened by rain, it'll never work. Where's F1 racing next weekend again? Oh.

#34 BRG

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 16:42

Yeah, having a circuit in an economically-deprived region, up in the hills, constantly threatened by rain, it'll never work. Where's F1 racing next weekend again? Oh.

So all they have to do in Wales is build an iconic, charismatic race track with major elevation changes, a series of testing and demanding fast and ultra fast corners, as well as the most legendary corner in motor sport, and they will be alright. Instead, they are proposing a Tilkedrome (http://circuitofwale...image-large.jpg) but without even Tilke's flair for circuit design.

Actually, when you said "a circuit in an economically-deprived region, up in the hills, constantly threatened by rain", I thought at first you were referring to Knockhill.

Edited by BRG, 24 August 2012 - 16:43.


#35 Risil

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 17:27

So all they have to do in Wales is build an iconic, charismatic race track with major elevation changes, a series of testing and demanding fast and ultra fast corners, as well as the most legendary corner in motor sport, and they will be alright. Instead, they are proposing a Tilkedrome (http://circuitofwale...image-large.jpg) but without even Tilke's flair for circuit design.


Well obviously there's no excuse for that. Uninspiring, mediocre circuit design must be ridiculed wherever we find it.

But I like the idea of a circuit in South Wales anyway. We need more Knockhills.

Edited by Risil, 24 August 2012 - 17:27.


#36 Longtimefan

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 19:31

a Welsh circuit?

I'd like to suggest they name it 'Circuit Pryce' or something similar if it got built.

#37 Risil

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 19:42

Wrong end of Wales, but it'd be a nice gesture.

The late Gary Hocking was born in nearby Caerleon, though.

#38 pingu666

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 19:44

wonder if that property in that cutout on the lefthand side is already there. if it isnt they missed a trick, could of had a circuit layout which skipped that section which would be faster an more flowing, plus u could use that squarish shape for some oval racing...

#39 grandmastashi

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:01

Yeah, having a circuit in an economically-deprived region, up in the hills, constantly threatened by rain, it'll never work. Where's F1 racing next weekend again? Oh.


I think it's a bit of a stretch to liken a circuit as historical and beloved as Spa to this.

Personally I think anything that grows motorsport in Wales is a good thing.

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#40 billm99uk

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 13:47

Be interesting if they could get F3 or BTCC level maybe? Not so sure about local clubbies.

What's the accommodation like around there? Always wondered how you were supposed to stay for somewhere like Pembrey if you don't live nearby, or like getting up really early.

#41 blackhand2010

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:02

Money aside, it's been given the go-ahead...
http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-23246491

Whilst I would never knock additional racing in the UK, I do wonder if a new circuit is actually needed...

#42 wj_gibson

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:16

It appears to be dependent on getting MotoGP.

I don't see the point of building a new circuit only for sub-F1 4-wheel events in this day and age, there's a plethora of them already.

#43 DN5

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:31

There is a special Council meeting today at 1 pm to consider the issue. It is a complex case that has a recommendation to accept the application with conditions.

On reading the report it looks an interesting decision especially considering the section on noise.

http://democracy.bla...ages/att232.pdf

Geoff

#44 billm99uk

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:57

I don't see the point of building a new circuit only for sub-F1 4-wheel events in this day and age, there's a plethora of them already.


I think its mostly about creating jobs in an area of high unemployment, like Rockingham/Corby.

That said, I wonder how they intend to get large numbers there? The infrastructure ain't great (which is part of the reason there are no jobs!). Must read the report.

#45 BoschKurve

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 13:04

They should name the circuit after Tom Pryce.

#46 billm99uk

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 13:06

They should name the circuit after Tom Pryce.


Pryce was from North Wales though, that's like another country  ;)

#47 BoschKurve

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 13:22

Pryce was from North Wales though, that's like another country ;)


Oops. :lol:

#48 billm99uk

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 17:44

Oops. :lol:


Fine by me, I'm in mid-Wales, so I'm a neutral  ;)

Note the planning report says they expect to host FIA Formula 2 though. Might have a bit of a wait there...

#49 BRG

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:29

This new circuit is going ahead. 

 

But the Motor Sport Vision group and Silverstone are up in arms about it, as they feel that public money from the Welsh government* is being used to develop a competitor to their tracks, when they have been denied any public financial support.  Especially as the new track is explicitly aiming to take the MotoGP away from Silverstone.  They also pick holes (and not without reason) in the over-optimistic claims for the new track, pointing out that Rockingham , the last new track to be built n the UK, used only 200 workers rather than Wales's claim for 3000, and that the claimed 6000 jobs after construction compares to only 600 at Silverstone.

 

* and therefore ultimately from the UK Treasury; ie. all our taxes



#50 rhukkas

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:50

This new circuit is going ahead. 

 

But the Motor Sport Vision group and Silverstone are up in arms about it, as they feel that public money from the Welsh government* is being used to develop a competitor to their tracks, when they have been denied any public financial support.  Especially as the new track is explicitly aiming to take the MotoGP away from Silverstone.  They also pick holes (and not without reason) in the over-optimistic claims for the new track, pointing out that Rockingham , the last new track to be built n the UK, used only 200 workers rather than Wales's claim for 3000, and that the claimed 6000 jobs after construction compares to only 600 at Silverstone.

 

* and therefore ultimately from the UK Treasury; ie. all our taxes

 

If they are getting tax payers money you can almost guarantee the figures will be massaged. If there isn't sufficient demand in the market place to attract private investment then this whole project could go bellies up. Motorsport in the UK is on a downward trajectory. Even despite the economy, general interest in motorsport is on the wain.

 

I don't know how much money they are getting of the government, but one penny is too much.