48 replies to this topic

[Ralf Pickel]

Edit : it should read 1962 in the title above, not 61!

I found out that in the March, 23 1962 issue of Autosport there should be a report about Reg Armstrong.
Would anyone have that issue at home and could please have a look inside if there is anything mentioned about his car racing in 1961 ?
It might possibly help in the research about my Lotus 20 as mentioned in another topic.

Thank you in advance for anything.

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 21 November 2011 - 16:38.

[Alan Cox]

Ralf, the profile describes his 1961 season thus:

The Lotus 18 was replaced with a Lotus 20 for 1961......Driving the Lotus 20, Armstrong was the best-placed Irish driver-in fourth place-in the Phoenix Park 100 miles FJ race. He was second fastest behind McAlister at Ballylaneen, and in the Calary Hill-Climb he was second fastest behind Pringle (2½ litre Cooper). Reg had a great dice in the FJ race at Kirkistown in July, and finished third behind Mervyn McKinney (Gemini Mk3A) and Maurice Acheson in another Lotus 20.

There is also a photo of Reg with the 20 at Carrick-on-Suir MC's Ballylaneen hill-climb in June 1961.
Hope this helps.

[David McKinney]

It says "The Lotus 18 was replaced with a Lotus 20 for 1961" (my stressing)

It also mentions he borrowed back his 18 for at least one event

[Simon Thomas]

It says "The Lotus 18 was replaced with a Lotus 20 for 1961" (my stressing)

It also mentions he borrowed back his 18 for at least one event

I have just posted on the other Reg Armstrong thread. Ralf, it would be interesting to see how the car emerged from it's long Irish slumber, are there any photos of the great day?. I recall the severity of the accident at Phoenix Park in 1966 and how lucky Cullen was to survive unharmed.
Simon Thomas

[Ralf Pickel]

First of all - thank you for the informations from Autosport - very interesting.
Also - I have to say that I do more and more doubt the story of the two 20s - until proven different...:-)).

As for the rebuild - I have no photos from Michael Hibberd (yet) - but he did promise some.
It was done by him in 2000/01 and consequently had its first successful outing at Goodwood 2001, Hibberd winning the Chichester Cup.
I have photos from the wreck at Phoenix Park - Brian Cullen told me, that frame was bent on the left side but no total writeoff.

I was also told by someone who should know, that most of the frame does look original.
It also still has the bracket for the gearlever/ linkage of the earlier Hewland.

I am hoping to get more from Michael Hibberd some time soon - this might show also what he actually bought.

[Simon Thomas]

First of all - thank you for the informations from Autosport - very interesting.
Also - I have to say that I do more and more doubt the story of the two 20s - until proven different...:-)).

As for the rebuild - I have no photos from Michael Hibberd (yet) - but he did promise some.
It was done by him in 2000/01 and consequently had its first successful outing at Goodwood 2001, Hibberd winning the Chichester Cup.
I have photos from the wreck at Phoenix Park - Brian Cullen told me, that frame was bent on the left side but no total writeoff.

I was also told by someone who should know, that most of the frame does look original.
It also still has the bracket for the gearlever/ linkage of the earlier Hewland.

I am hoping to get more from Michael Hibberd some time soon - this might show also what he actually bought.

Ralf
Yes, it will be good to see what Hibberd collected in Ireland, he must have been very excited with his purchase and the prospect of racing it at Goodwood. Wonder why Cullen sold the wheels off the car in the paddock at Phoenix Park after the accident to Richie Conroy for his Buckler? These remain on it to this day.
Simon Thomas

[Ralf Pickel]

I think the only part which changed hands was the bent frame.
That went from Cullen to a man who wanted to make a grass track racer, but came never around doing that.
I just don't have his name here ( I am away from my computer) - I can post that name tomorrow.
The frame went via Andy Bradshaw to Hibberd .
So , of course, no original suspension or body parts - which would have had to be changed anyhow.
I still think, though, that there must have been some influence from the original body been there - this 20 does have a rather unusual position for the rear view mirrors ( high up and rather close together on the screen) and this is also visible on the old photos I have from Cullen etc.

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 21 November 2011 - 20:04.

[bill p]

Some photos from the Jan/Feb 1967 edtion of Ireland's motor sport magazine of the time, "Wheel" - the photos were part a feature by Brian Cullen giving his account of his 1966 Season.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Ralf Pickel]

Thank you for posting that - I have got this, too, some time ago.

[Ralf Pickel]

The man, who bought the chassis (and probably not much else) from Brian Cullen was Gordon Percy. (Is he still around ? Would anybody have some contact details?)
He had the Chassis until 1999/2000, when it went to Andy Bradshaw.

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 22 November 2011 - 07:45.

[RTH]

Is this the same Reg Armstrong who was Mini Seven champion in 1972 or a different person ?

http://www.mini7.co.uk/honours09.asp

[Ralf Pickel]

Ralf, the profile describes his 1961 season thus:
There is also a photo of Reg with the 20 at Carrick-on-Suir MC's Ballylaneen hill-climb in June 1961.
Hope this helps.

Alan - would the photo show the location of the rear view mirrors ?
As stated before by me, the car had (at least from 63, but probably from the beginning) the mirrors mounted rather high up on the screen and relatively close together.
See photo as they are again on the 20.

Thank you !

[David McKinney]

Is this the same Reg Armstrong who was Mini Seven champion in 1972 or a different person ?

I'd be very surprised if it was the same one

[GD66]

Same Reg Armstrong that won the 1952 Isle of Man Senior TT, wasn't it ?

[Ralf Pickel]

Yes !

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Reg Armstrong had one lOTUS 20 , which then pased to Edmund Gill , and onward to Brian Cullen .

[Ralf Pickel]

Thank you, Eddie !
Any idea, if the stated (by Duncan R.) delivery date of August 61 could be right ?
It still does seem rather late in the season.
On the other hand - they had to many 20s at Lotus etc., so it might be correct.

[Richard Young]

For what it's worth I think I know why the Armstrong Lotus had such oddly-mounted mirrors...... The first time I saw it was at a hill climb on the Old Long Hill (or New Long Hill, there's one of each and I could never remember which was which) in Co. Wicklow. This would have been in '61. The finish was at the end of a long, steep straight approached at quite high speed and the clocks were stopped - not by a light beam but mechanically, triggered by a thread which was stretched across the road before each car passed, and broken, physically, by the car as it passed through. It was a system widely used in Ireland - and elsewhere - at the time.
The Lotus 20, being rather lower than anything else about, slipped under the thread which was eventually broken by Reg's chin, cutting said chin in the process !
As a 15-year-old standing at the finish line I was very impressed by Mr Armstrong's arrival, on foot, down from the holding paddock, bleeding copiously and suggesting to the officials that the thread might be lowered a bit for subsequent runs !
Repositioning the mirrors might well have been a way of preventing further chin damage by putting the mirrors where they would break timing threads in future !
I'm fairly sure Reg finished second that day, behind John Pringle's 2.5 litre Cooper Climax T51.

[Ralf Pickel]

Richard - now that is very interesting !
Thank you for posting the story.
Might well be a possibility !
Ralf

Edit Looking at the photo it really seems possible that the mirrors might have helped breaking the thread (sorry for the bad quality of the photo...)

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 22 November 2011 - 15:05.

[bill p]

Brian Cullen at Ballylaneen Hillclimb in early 1966

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Ralf Pickel]

Thank you very much for posting that.
The first photo I see with the final paint job.
In the beginning of BC ownership he only applied two thin blue lines - similar to the ones on his helmet.
The car also has the different 13" wheels on the rear.

[arttidesco]

For what it's worth I think I know why the Armstrong Lotus had such oddly-mounted mirrors...... The first time I saw it was at a hill climb on the Old Long Hill (or New Long Hill, there's one of each and I could never remember which was which) in Co. Wicklow. This would have been in '61. The finish was at the end of a long, steep straight approached at quite high speed and the clocks were stopped - not by a light beam but mechanically, triggered by a thread which was stretched across the road before each car passed, and broken, physically, by the car as it passed through. It was a system widely used in Ireland - and elsewhere - at the time.
The Lotus 20, being rather lower than anything else about, slipped under the thread which was eventually broken by Reg's chin, cutting said chin in the process !
As a 15-year-old standing at the finish line I was very impressed by Mr Armstrong's arrival, on foot, down from the holding paddock, bleeding copiously and suggesting to the officials that the thread might be lowered a bit for subsequent runs !
Repositioning the mirrors might well have been a way of preventing further chin damage by putting the mirrors where they would break timing threads in future !
I'm fairly sure Reg finished second that day, behind John Pringle's 2.5 litre Cooper Climax T51.

That is an absolutely fabulous insight thanks for sharing it Richard

[Ralf Pickel]

One question again - would anyone know Gordon Percy ?
He supposedly was a grasse track racer and bought the remains of the 20 from Brian Cullen.
If anybody would know more about him, if he still around etc. - that would be highly appreciated - thank you !

Ralf

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

One question again - would anyone know Gordon Percy ?
He supposedly was a grasse track racer and bought the remains of the 20 from Brian Cullen.
If anybody would know more about him, if he still around etc. - that would be highly appreciated - thank you !

Ralf

Gordon died last year .

[Ralf Pickel]

Sad to read this - thank you for letting me know, Eddie.

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Following on from Ricky Youngs memories of Reg tagging the thread at the finish line of the MGCC Hillclimb , the same befel Edmund Gill a year later and is referred to in the programme otes for the Phoenix Park 14/07/1962 , Edmund recieved lacerations to the face and did not compete in the Park , though he is listed in the programme .

[Ralf Pickel]

Seems that those timing threads were quite dangerous !
Thank you for telling this.
What car had he entered ?

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Seems that those timing threads were quite dangerous !
Thank you for telling this.
What car had he entered ?

Edmund was in the Lotus 20.

[Ralf Pickel]

Thank you !
So putting the mirrors in the odd location did not help here...

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 24 November 2011 - 08:41.

[arttidesco]

Is it possible that the second mishap occurred because Edmund was taller than Reg ?

[Simon Thomas]

Is it possible that the second mishap occurred because Edmund was taller than Reg ?

I recall Armstrong was about 5' 9'' and looking at photos of Edmund Gill I would say he was about the same. Both only really dabbled with cars and were predominantly racing motor cyclists.
Simon Thomas

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

I recall Armstrong was about 5' 9'' and looking at photos of Edmund Gill I would say he was about the same. Both only really dabbled with cars and were predominantly racing motor cyclists.
Simon Thomas

it is reasonable to assume the officials setting up the finish tape / thread had not allowed for the sleek Lotus as most of the competitors were driving saloons or cars such as MGA and MGTD . Regarding the height of Edmund Gill , I am 5'11" and I would reckon he was as tall or taller than me .

[Richard Young]

Time for a thread thread ? Or is that a bit too fluffy ?

[larryd]

I recall Armstrong was about 5' 9'' and looking at photos of Edmund Gill I would say he was about the same. Both only really dabbled with cars and were predominantly racing motor cyclists.
Simon Thomas

I'm 5ft 10 1/2in, Simon, and Edmund was slightly taller (1") than me.

[Tim Murray]

Time for a thread thread ? Or is that a bit too fluffy ?

Good idea, though. There are several threads on timekeeping methods, of which this one appears the most comprehensive:

A brief history of timekeeping

but there doesn't seem to be any mention of this particular method.

Edited by Tim Murray, 25 November 2011 - 14:36.

[larryd]

Time for a thread thread ? Or is that a bit too fluffy ?

Oi, St John - lowering the tone again I see

[arttidesco]

Thanks to every one on this thread who unwittingly contributed to this blog about the Lotus 20 #20-J-892 that was first run by Reg Armstrong.

[Simon Thomas]

Thanks to every one on this thread who unwittingly contributed to this blog about the Lotus 20 #20-J-892 that was first run by Reg Armstrong.

I certainly did not contribute unwittingly to this or the other related thread!!!!!
Simon Thomas

[Ted Walker]

Could someone please explain what a "blog" is and how the contents of this forum becomes part of it ??????

[arttidesco]

A blog is a web log a digital space where content can be updated like a diary or note book.

Some of the contents of this forum become a part of my blog because I add, credit and where appropriate link them to my blog.

I hope that helps Ted :-)

Edited by arttidesco, 26 November 2011 - 12:55.

[Bauble]

Could someone please explain what a "blog" is and how the contents of this forum becomes part of it ??????

Ted,
I think The Blog' was a major horror film.

Bauble.

[Ralf Pickel]

With Steve McQueen ?

[arttidesco]

With Steve McQueen ?

and a cast of exciting young people !

[bill p]

Ralf

By the way, your "20" had a mid-blue noseband & stripe with blue wheel centres when raced by Brian Cullen

Bill

[Ralf Pickel]

Bill - thank you for mentioning that.
Brian told me that some time ago.
I am thinking about doing that in the future.
The GRP parts start to crack a little at some points, so a repair/repaint will be necessary one day.

Ralf

[bill p]

............................ so a repair/repaint will be necessary one day.

Ralf

That would be a good Christmas present for "892".

[Ralf Pickel]

Well said - but it is still too good to do it this year.
Plan is to drive it another season and then do everything necessary.
Most people wouldn´t probably think about any work at all at the moment...;-)

By the way - would you have any colour photos of the car ?

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

JUST BEEN LOOKING AT FILM FOOTAGE OF RSG DRIVING THE LOTUS , COLOUR WINE RED , WHITE WOBBLY WHEELS ,

[Ralf Pickel]

Thank you for info, Eddie.

Any DVD s available ?

Ralf