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Nurburgring 1950 Rheinland race


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#1 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:54

The race was run on 20.8.50 . I am looking for an entry list or as many as possible names on entrants/teams/owners , please.

http://wsrp.ic.cz/gerscc1950.html



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#2 D-Type

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:09

As it was a support race for the German Grand Prix the information will be in a programme for the meeting.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:59

As it was a support race for the German Grand Prix the information will be in a programme for the meeting.

..assuming they listed entrants. Not all organisers did

#4 D-Type

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 23:21

Several of the drivers in the Rheinland Cup also raced in the Grand Prix. 200km of sports car race plus 500km of Grand Prix is a lot of racing!

#5 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:25

To get on with it , I need a program then . Has anyone a program , please ?

#6 D-Type

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:47

To get on with it , I need a program then . Has anyone a program , please ?

But Bjorn, surely you don't want me to open a fresh thread to comment on the drivers competing in the race in the thread title? Which thread would people need to open in the future?

#7 uechtel

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 10:19

..assuming they listed entrants. Not all organisers did


Well, one might doubt that perhaps for the British GP...

In Germany there was a programme for every little round-the-houses-race. Selling them was a way for the organizers to make some additional money...

But you have of course to look for the correct event. I never found reference to anything like a race called "Rheinland-Pokal" in 1950, always only the description as "Internationales Sportwagenrennen im Rahmen des Großen Preis von Deutschland", which means it would have been a more or less "nameless" race in an event which was called "Großer Preis von Deutschland" as a whole.

The weekend consisted of the Formula 2 race, supported by a Formula 3 / Kleinstrennwagen and a sports car race, which was itself divided into three classes (1100 cc, 1500 cc and 2000 cc), starting from separate grids with a time distance. This makes it more complicate to decide whether it was a single race or three different races run at the same time.

Therefore at the end it was quite a sensation and perhaps a little bit unnerving to the crowd to see Trintignant in his Gordini (from the 1500 cc category) chasing Rieß in the 2 litre Veritas down the line, making up almost 3 minutes. Also very impressive must have been Manzon with his 1100 cc Gordini being only two seconds slower in practise than Trintignant and faster than all the 2 liter cars.

2000 cc category
Pos No. Driver					Car					   Entrant			 Laps Time		 Practise Time
1   20  Fritz Rieß (D)			Veritas-BMW RS								9 1:52'18.0	   6  12'27.1
2   36  Karl-Günther Bechem (D)   BMW 328									   9 1:53'17.3	   4  12'19.9
3   38  Kurt Adolff (D)		   Veritas-BMW RS								9 1:54'56.0	   5  12'19.0
4   30  Jacques Swaters (B)	   Veritas-BMW RS								9 1:56'58.0	   13 13'25.6
5   14  Per-Gunnar Wahlberg (S)   BMW 328									   9 1:57'26.3	   15 13'54.1
6   4   Peter Staechlin (CH)	  Ferrari 166 MM								9 1:57'42.0	   7  12'32.2
7   8   Cos van der Tuyn (NL)	 Cotura-BMW									9 1:59'13.8	   12 13'23.1
8   16  René Simone (F)		   D.B.			  Automobiles Deutsch&Bonnet  9 2:02'22.1	   11 13'20.8
9   26  Willi Krakau (D)		  BMW 328									   9 2:04'58.4	   16 14'01.5
10  37  Yvonne Simone (F)		 Ferrari 166 MM								8 1:54'02.2	   17 14'17.9
11  24  Theo Helfrich (D)		 Veritas-BMW RS								8 1:54'42.8	   1  11'49.4
12  34  Arthur Rosenhammer (D)	ARO-Veritas								   8				 18
Retired:
DNF 10  Johann Westhof (NL)	   Veritas-BMW RS								3				 14
DNF 12  André Pilette (B)		 Veritas-BMW RS								3				 10
DNF 18  Toni Ulmen (D)			Veritas-BMW RS								2				 3
DNF 28  Walter Assenheimer (D)	BMW-Eigenbau (Touring)						2				 8
DNF 32  Helmut Niedermayr (D)	 Reif-BMW									  0				 2
DNF 2   Willy Daetwyler (CH)	  BMW 328 (Touring)		 Hans Waeffler						 9	   
Did not appear:
DNA 6   Kurt Halter (CH)		  Veritas-BMW RS
DNA 22  Fritzgeorg Martin (D)	 Veritas-BMW RS
DNA 39  Fred Widenmeyer (D)	   BMW

1500 cc category
1   54  Maurice Trintignant (F)   Simca-Gordini			 Equipe Gordini	  9 1:49'18.1	   2  12'02.0
2   42  Helm Glöckler (D)		 Veritas-BMW RS								9 1:56'13.8	   5  13'13.0
3   40  Hans Schuler (CH)		 Veritas-BMW RS								9 2:04'37.1	   4  13'11.7
4   52  Willy Spindler (D)		Neumaier-BMW Spezial						  7 1:54'32.0	   7  14'04.0
Retired:
DNF 44  Paul Pietsch (D)		  Veritas-BMW RS								4				 1  11'36.6
DNF 50  Hermann Kathrein (D)	  BMW (Neumaier)								2				 6  13'16.6
DNF 48  William Lucas (USA)	   Expediter									 0				 8  15'15.4
DNF 56  "Ernst Ring" (D)		  Veritas-BMW RS								0				 3  12'24.2
Did not appear:
DNA 46  Hanns Roth (D)			Veritas-BMW RS

1100 cc category
1   100 Robert Manzon (F)		 Simca-Gordini			 Equipe Gordini	  9  1:53'31.0	  1  12'04.5
2   60  Elie Bayol (F)			D.B.			   Automobiles Deutsch&Bonnet 9 1:54'39.1	   3  12'52.4
3   66  Walter Glöckler (D)	   VW Eigenbau								   9 1:59'24.3	   5  13'10.8
4   86  Huschke von Hanstein (D)  Petrix-VW-Eigenbau							9 2:00'47.8	   6  13'01.3
5   70  Richard Trenkel (D)	   VW-Eigenbau								   9 2:01'00.6	   4  13'16.2
6   98  Hans Finke (D)			VW-Eigenbau								   9 2:03'45.8	   8  13'42.4
7   62  Michel Aunaud (F)		 D.B.			   Automobiles Deutsch&Bonnet 9 2:06'33.0	   12 14'10.0
8   84  Petermax Müller (D)	   VW-Eigenbau								   9 2:06'49.6	   11 14'02.5
9   88  Paul Dübbers (D)		  AF											8 1:53'00.4	   13 14'14.6
10  90  Rolf Gschwend (CH)		Crosmobile				Ecurie Crosmobile   8 2:00'46.8	   18 15'43.4
11  92  Fritz Feierabend (CH)	 Crosmobile				Ecurie Crosmobile   8 2:04'39.8	   19 15'56.5
retired:
DNF 78  Gustav Hennig (D)		 AFM										   5				 2  12'41.2
DNF 64  Maurizio Crivelli (CH)	Mille Miglia								  4				 9  13'58.8
DNF 76  Willy von Müller (D)	  Fiat/AFM									  3				 16 15'20.2
DNF 80  Frits van Erp (D)		 AFM										   2				 20 16'15.6
DNF 82  Gottfried Vollmer (D)	 VW-Spezial									1				 7  13'21.0
DNF 104 Erich Lüttkemaas (D)	  AFM										   1				 17 15'35.6
DNF 72  Alex von Falkenhausen (D) AFM										   0				 10 13'59.0
DNF 94  Oviedo Bernasconi (CH)	Crosmobile				Ecurie Crosmobile   0				 14 14'55.2
DNF 68  Josef Kulzer (D)		  Fiat										  0				 15 15'03.2
Did not appear:
DNA 74  Helmut Polensky (D)	   Fidelitas
DNA 96  Jean Wagner (CH)		  Crosmobile				Ecurie Crosmobile

Edited by uechtel, 24 November 2011 - 13:40.


#8 uechtel

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 10:22

Hm, the table format seems not to work as I assumed... :evil:

#9 David McKinney

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:37

Well, one might doubt that perhaps for the British GP...

In Germany there was a programme for every little round-the-houses-race. Selling them was a way for the organizers to make some additional money...


I didn't doubt for a moment that there would have been a programme. What I was saying was that not all programmes, at that time, listed entrants as well as drivers

#10 uechtel

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:54

Ok, lack of understanding the finer points of the English language on my side.

Anyway most entries in Germany at that time were usually self entrants. For the rare cases when there were other entrants there was not usually a separate column, but it was noted like

"Scuderia ABS:
Diver Mr. X"



#11 ReWind

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:28

@uechtel: Use codebox (instead of code) & do NOT use tab stops! Then it will look like this:
[codebox]Pos No. Driver Car Entrant Laps Time Practice Time
1 20 Fritz Rieß (D) Veritas-BMW RS 9 1:52'18.0 6 12'27.1[/codebox]


#12 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 19:45

Swaters and Pilette would be in Ec.Belgique Veritas cars.

#13 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 08:27

Then I have Herman Roosdorp participating in the GP with his 166 MM under #76. Uechtel you list a Mueller under &76. Had the organisers issued two times that number, or is something incorrect?

#14 uechtel

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:09

Roosdorp started in the Formula 2 race. Unusual for Germany, the organizers did note use the normal season-long numbers for this race, perhaps because it was of such outstanding importance then. As a consequence the numbers are not unique for this one event.

#15 uechtel

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:10

Swaters and Pilette would be in Ec.Belgique Veritas cars.


Probably, but they had not entered like this, according to the programme.


#16 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 00:43

Where is such a program to see ?