Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 8 votes

Caterham F1 - 2012


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
2169 replies to this topic

#1 CrashTestDummy

CrashTestDummy
  • Member

  • 151 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 28 November 2011 - 15:11

The season is over, as well as Team Lotus in its current incarnation, so I guess it is now time to begin a new thread - complete with a brand new name.

In the words of Tony Fernandez:

We have been talking for some time now about our plans for Caterham in all its guises, from the road car company to Formula 1 and GP2, and in the technology, design and innovation fields. Now, with the announcement we made last week about the rebranding in Formula One to Caterham F1 Team for 2012 and beyond, we are in a position to give a much more in-depth explanation of how the Caterham Group is taking shape.
...

Caterham F1 Team is the new and permanent incarnation of our Formula One investment. On and off track we continue to invest in people, infrastructure and technology and 2012 is a critical year in our development. Underneath the F1 team sits Caterham Racing, the new name for our GP2 team, and then we have our driver development programme that encompasses various motor racing formulae from karting, GP3, World Series by Renault and right up to F1 - a staircase of talent that gives opportunities for drivers, engineers, mechanics and all the associated skill-sets across the motorsport industry the chance to learn, develop and reach the top. This is also complimented by the various Caterham Cars racing series, currently with approximately 700 cars competing in series around the world and now given a new impetus by the direct links to the F1 team and all our associated motor racing interests.
...

With those four arms in place, and more to be announced in due course, we have a dynamic group of businesses already working together that gives a clear vision of what our long-term strategy is in their respective fields, and as one entity under Caterham Group. The group will be based across a number of centres of excellence - Caterham Cars, Caterham F1 Team and our motorsport interests will be based in one location that we are close to announcing, and our technology and composites interests will be based in Norfolk. With those plans now complete we have the foundations in place for long-term growth and success, and now we are in complete control of our own destiny. We have a very exciting future ahead of us and are all looking forward to seeing the rewards of our hard work pay off for many years to come.



Have to admit, Tony's plans for Caterham Group look almost like smaller scale McLaren Group of sorts. Impressive.

So, a respectable automotive brand, with sporting image and history but no involvement in Formula One as of yet, will be on the grid next year.

Personally, I can say that I'm glad the Lotus/Lotus situation was resolved the way it did, because it allowed for Caterham name to step into Formula One - and that sure is a good thing. Good luck to the team and let's hope the progress of last two season continues!


Now, discuss away!

Advertisement

#2 T-Mobile

T-Mobile
  • Member

  • 665 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 28 November 2011 - 15:28

I agree. Tony Fernandes looks like he is serious about F1, and I really hope the team makes some serious improvement for next year.

Kovelainen is a lock, but it looks like Truli's seat is still in doubt?

#3 Lennat

Lennat
  • Member

  • 486 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 28 November 2011 - 15:32

This is cool, gives him some proper Lotus heritage, in a sense, without claiming the right to something that no longer exists.

#4 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 8,176 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 November 2011 - 15:33

Caterham have to score points regular in 2012, they have the drivers, the tech staff, engines. Failing to make the step up and mixing it with Sauber, Toro Rosso and Williams will designate them a failure.

I personally do not really care for Fernandez public image, his leeching on to the Lotus name, however he have fielded the team which have far and above been the better of the new teams, he went for the known quantities on both tech and driver side, and he is the team owner who took the challenge the most serious for the new ones.

With the iron clad reliability in modern F1, scoring points will be the scraps from the table of the the best. I expect

Red Bull
McLaren
Ferrari
Mercedes

To be the top 8 cars next season as well, leaving only 2 spots at the lower end to regularly battle for, and if Force India can keep their steam up, they will for the most part be gone as well. Predictions are hard, especially when trying on the future will be tough breaking through for the teams under the 4 front runners, unless someone catches lightning in a bottle.

:cool:

#5 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 28 November 2011 - 15:40

I agree. Tony Fernandes looks like he is serious about F1, and I really hope the team makes some serious improvement for next year.

Kovelainen is a lock, but it looks like Truli's seat is still in doubt?

Trulli's seat is always in doubt. Would be nice to see Ricciardo or Vergne alongside Kova in 2012, but it doesn't look like they are too eager to get rid of Trulli anytime soon. Maybe for some races.

#6 jals99

jals99
  • Member

  • 778 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 28 November 2011 - 15:45

Trulli's seat is always in doubt. Would be nice to see Ricciardo or Vergne alongside Kova in 2012, but it doesn't look like they are too eager to get rid of Trulli anytime soon. Maybe for some races.

Probably they will see how 2012 power steering will fit Jarno before making final decision.
Judging Tony's words from Sunday it looks like situation can not changed in nearest future ( as they send their entry list with Jarno and Kovalainen already ), but it may change later, may be at first they want to understand situation with power steering, even to wait for first tests/races

Edited by jals99, 30 November 2011 - 06:17.


#7 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 November 2011 - 16:13

Ted Kravitz video blog:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/15913125.stm

He says that TF was underplaying the cash from the move to Column 1, Ted gives it as $40,000,000!

#8 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 8,176 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 November 2011 - 16:37

Ted Kravitz video blog:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/15913125.stm

He says that TF was underplaying the cash from the move to Column 1, Ted gives it as $40,000,000!


That may be true, but really does not 'sound' correct. Supposedly you can run a team at Usd 50 million per year, once you have the infrastructure in place, so they only need to find Usd 10 million to be home for the needed budget?

Or are the budget numbers thrown about in the RAA not correct?

:cool:

#9 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 4,014 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 28 November 2011 - 16:45

TF was super happy about making it to 10 place yesterday, and should be. There's not much better than achieving your goals. I hope that Caterham makes a step up next year to challenge SFI & Sauber. Will be interesting so see if they can.

#10 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,317 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 28 November 2011 - 16:45

Poaching one of McLaren's top aero managers and already having Mike Gascoyne are positive signs for the team going forwards. Great to see new teams putting this kind of strategic effort in. Hope they do well.

#11 Sanman59

Sanman59
  • Member

  • 268 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 28 November 2011 - 16:50

Trulli's seat is always in doubt. Would be nice to see Ricciardo or Vergne alongside Kova in 2012, but it doesn't look like they are too eager to get rid of Trulli anytime soon. Maybe for some races.


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96560

Apparently not..........This story (Ricciardo for Caterham) now has credibility. :up:

#12 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:02

Speaking as someone who has not only owned a Caterham but used it as daily transport I honestly think they should spend money on improving their product quality rather than advertising! I'd have another one, if I had the money, but boy it was irritating and poorly built!

#13 olliek88

olliek88
  • Member

  • 4,048 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:10

BIG year for the team next season, really have to push on into the midfield, slightly disappointing start to the year but they have really improved and only 4 tenths off of Q2 in Brazil with the new DRS wing is promising. Having KERS alone would of made that gap up so i expect them to be Q2 on a regular basis next season, maybe, if they're lucky the odd Q3 might be possible. Fingers crossed!

#14 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:13

I hope they're not impatient! Williams disaster season won't be repeated (I hope!). STR aren't too shabby, Sauber are solid, ditto FI - basically they've got a hell of a lot of good teams to fight.

#15 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 4,014 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:17

Here's BBC interview with TF & MG. KOV shows up in latter part. Looks and sounds like they're moving forward. Time will tell.

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

#16 hippie

hippie
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:19

Ted Kravitz video blog:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/15913125.stm

He says that TF was underplaying the cash from the move to Column 1, Ted gives it as $40,000,000!

Apparently it's $28 million of prize money for securing the 10th place for the second year in running, plus $8 million of "new team money" from Bernie. So it's around $36 million in total.

#17 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:21

I don't get Caterham Cars at all. What do they bring to the party? Ultra-low-tech welded spaceframe and rivets.

I can't imagine the facilities and skills will be any use at all with a new F1-promoted sportscar, and with an F1 team they could overtake the pretty minimal brand value of Caterham with their first model launch.

If he'd bought Noble or Jensen or something that might have made sense.

#18 Saturnus

Saturnus
  • Member

  • 282 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:39

I don't get Caterham Cars at all. What do they bring to the party? Ultra-low-tech welded spaceframe and rivets.

Caterham build 'cheap' sportscars with good handling. Their vision is not to be the most high tech car-manufacturer, but to bring a similar performance and feeling for a much lower price.


#19 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:50

but boy it was irritating and poorly built!


So who built it - you?

:)
Mine is extremely well built.

I don't get Caterham Cars at all. What do they bring to the party? Ultra-low-tech welded spaceframe and rivets.


Well to start of with, Caterham have an existing sucessful race series. And TF wants to get into car manufacturing, and Caterham gives him a successful existing motorsport brand without the baggage he has had to deal with for the last two years.

Advertisement

#20 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:01

I don't get Caterham Cars at all. What do they bring to the party? Ultra-low-tech welded spaceframe and rivets.

I can't imagine the facilities and skills will be any use at all with a new F1-promoted sportscar, and with an F1 team they could overtake the pretty minimal brand value of Caterham with their first model launch.

If he'd bought Noble or Jensen or something that might have made sense.

http://life.caterham...-sp300-r-update

Caterham was already breaking ground before Fernandes came along, hopefully they will be able to reinforce their image and expand their product range.

#21 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:23

Caterham build 'cheap' sportscars with good handling. Their vision is not to be the most high tech car-manufacturer, but to bring a similar performance and feeling for a much lower price.

Yes absolutely. But do you promote cars like that with F1? No. Well, not until now!

#22 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,058 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:23

Never heard of Caterham until this name change thing. For me (native Japanese) the name looks funny somehow, coz I find it hard to recognize it other than "cater"+"ham", catering ham :p

Edited by muramasa, 28 November 2011 - 18:25.


#23 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:26

Well to start of with, Caterham have an existing sucessful race series. And TF wants to get into car manufacturing, and Caterham gives him a successful existing motorsport brand without the baggage he has had to deal with for the last two years.


Yeah they have a great race series. So what's F1 for?

My question is why not start from scratch? It would make a lot more sense that paying for a load of engineering you're not going to use. It's one step up from Morgan.

http://life.caterham...-sp300-r-update

Caterham was already breaking ground before Fernandes came along, hopefully they will be able to reinforce their image and expand their product range.

Well if Tony had bought Lola then that would have had synergy!

#24 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 440 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:40

Never heard of Caterham until this name change thing. For me (native Japanese) the name looks funny somehow, coz I find it hard to recognize it other than "cater"+"ham", catering ham :p

:) I'm only just getting the hang of pronouncing it right. I used to think it was "kat-er-um" but since the purchase I discovered its a lot posher than that and "cater-ham".

All the best for the team in '12 and beyond, they certainly deserve it. Regardless of what anyone thought of the naming rights saga the team has certainly proved that they deserve to be in F1 and are here to stay.

On the subject of Ricciardo joining them, I'm all for it. Plus I'm sure Tony would be happy to have a bit of exposure for the brand in the Aussie media. :p

#25 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,817 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 November 2011 - 20:51

Caterham announces ambitious plans

Makes a lot of sense to me. Gas will only become more expensive and efficiency more important (both by law and culturally, in the minds of people), but at the same time there will always be a desire for cars that are fun to drive. Lightweight small sports cars should be a growing market. Caterham has legacy (even if not that well known atm, a good marketing department will take care of that while building on the legacy) and F1 is a good platform for marketing and technologically (carbon, composites).

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 29 November 2011 - 11:30.


#26 peacockantony

peacockantony
  • Member

  • 1,343 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 28 November 2011 - 23:12

:) I'm only just getting the hang of pronouncing it right. I used to think it was "kat-er-um" but since the purchase I discovered its a lot posher than that and "cater-ham".

All the best for the team in '12 and beyond, they certainly deserve it. Regardless of what anyone thought of the naming rights saga the team has certainly proved that they deserve to be in F1 and are here to stay.

On the subject of Ricciardo joining them, I'm all for it. Plus I'm sure Tony would be happy to have a bit of exposure for the brand in the Aussie media. :p

I guess it is down to your nationality and accent. A say Caterham as Kay-ter-um, this is how I have heard it pronounced on the TV before, but others do pronounce the H more and say Kay-ter-hum.

#27 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,577 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 November 2011 - 23:13

I think the changeover to Caterham from Team Lotus is happening on December 14th... as that's when the @teamlotus.co.uk email addresses get changed to @caterhamf1.com

#28 GhostR

GhostR
  • Member

  • 2,631 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:52

Yeah they have a great race series. So what's F1 for?

My question is why not start from scratch? It would make a lot more sense that paying for a load of engineering you're not going to use. It's one step up from Morgan.


Well if Tony had bought Lola then that would have had synergy!

Part of it will be the history: Caterham only exists because of Lotus, and their flagship car is still a Lotus design. Lotus -> Caterham ... Team Lotus -> Caterham F1. And, if my reading-between-the-lines of the Group Lotus / Team Lotus deal was correct, there's going to be another Lotus design changing hands and becoming a Caterham in the future.

#29 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:09

So who built it - you?

:)
Mine is extremely well built.


Well to start of with, Caterham have an existing sucessful race series. And TF wants to get into car manufacturing, and Caterham gives him a successful existing motorsport brand without the baggage he has had to deal with for the last two years.

No - mine was factory built. But that wasn't really the frustration - the problem lies in the design detail. Things like the rear lights filling up with water, the hood poppers breaking, water surging under the sidescreens, switchgear flopping about.

Don't get me wrong, it was a fantastic experience and I loved every second of driving it. But - they could sort out so many problems on a design level (without adding weight) if they really wanted to. Seems to me that their current plan is to add price without adding value - that's the wrong way round really.

#30 Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast
  • Member

  • 4,425 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:19

No - mine was factory built. But that wasn't really the frustration - the problem lies in the design detail. Things like the rear lights filling up with water, the hood poppers breaking, water surging under the sidescreens, switchgear flopping about.

Don't get me wrong, it was a fantastic experience and I loved every second of driving it. But - they could sort out so many problems on a design level (without adding weight) if they really wanted to. Seems to me that their current plan is to add price without adding value - that's the wrong way round really.

A Colin Chapman designed car that isn't absolutely 100% reliable and durable? I'm sorry, I just don't believe that for one second!

#31 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:27

Seems to me that their current plan is to add price without adding value - that's the wrong way round really.


Well you seem to know a lot more about it than the rest of us then :)
I don't understand that comment at all - how can planning to release a all new sub 30K sports car be described as a "plan is to add price without adding value".
Right now we know absolutely nothing about the new car apart from it is not an Elise S1, and it has a Renault Sport powertrain.

As for how to pronounce Caterham, Caterham is a town in Surrey and only has one pronunciation - and if Kovi can get it right so can the rest of you :lol:

#32 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:44

Well you seem to know a lot more about it than the rest of us then :)
I don't understand that comment at all - how can planning to release a all new sub 30K sports car be described as a "plan is to add price without adding value".
Right now we know absolutely nothing about the new car apart from it is not an Elise S1, and it has a Renault Sport powertrain.

As for how to pronounce Caterham, Caterham is a town in Surrey and only has one pronunciation - and if Kovi can get it right so can the rest of you :lol:

I wasn't referring to the new car (in fact, I didn't know about it at all). I was referring to the ever increasing price of the proper Caterham.

Maybe a new car will hail a sea-change in quality and a totally different way of designing and building a car for them?

#33 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:50

Ricciardo to Caterham appears to be a done deal..........

#34 krapmeister

krapmeister
  • Member

  • 5,568 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:06

Ricciardo to Caterham appears to be a done deal..........


Who What Where When How... :D

#35 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:13

Ricciardo to Caterham appears to be a done deal..........


So would he count as a "pay" driver?

:lol:

#36 GhostR

GhostR
  • Member

  • 2,631 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 29 November 2011 - 13:29

So would he count as a "pay" driver?

:lol:

Only if Alonso at Minardi counted as a pay drive as well.

The black-and-white thing that some members have here re: pay / non-pay drivers is a bit tiresome really. And here's why:

* A driver like Webber is a paid driver: he brings some personal sponsorship, but he draws a full salary+bonuses from Red Bull. Lots of other drivers on the grid do as well: Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Massa, Rosberg etc etc.
* A driver like Karthikeyan is a pay driver: he only had his seat because he brought the biggest sponsor package to be able to buy the seat.
* Then you have the Alonso's of this world: Ferrari wanted him. But they don't have to pay him, because the sponsor Alonso brought with him does that instead. But no way would you describe Alonso as a pay driver - he's at Ferrari on merit, and the sponsor $s are a bonus.
* Then you have the guys like Ricciardo: the team they are contracted to doesn't have a seat for them, so they buy a seat elsewhere and loan out the driver. He's not bringing sponsorship to the team that 'owns' him; rather it's the other way around, the team that owns him is paying out to give him a drive.

Edited by GhostR, 29 November 2011 - 13:33.


#37 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,701 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 16:24

Even the late great Ayrton Senna was a pay driver in that he had to bring sponsorship to secure his initial drive in F1. IIRC his family was seriously wealthy. What people seem to be confusing is pay driver; someone with talent who brings funding with a rentadriver; someone with no talent, but brings the absolute motherload of money. Taki Inoue, Ricardo Rosset are examples of the latter.


#38 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 19:46

Part of it will be the history: Caterham only exists because of Lotus, and their flagship car is still a Lotus design. Lotus -> Caterham ... Team Lotus -> Caterham F1. And, if my reading-between-the-lines of the Group Lotus / Team Lotus deal was correct, there's going to be another Lotus design changing hands and becoming a Caterham in the future.

Ah well if they get hold of the Elise or something then that can only help.

But it just seems like Tony went for as you say the historical Lotus 7 connection and ended up in a rather silly place, with no useful infrastructure and a brand that's a small town in Kent.

#39 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:13

But it just seems like Tony went for as you say the historical Lotus 7 connection and ended up in a rather silly place, with no useful infrastructure and a brand that's a small town in Kent.


/facepalm

No, he went for a solvent small sports car manufacturer than has a existing affluent customer base, and great potential. He has a clean sheet of paper and can do whatever he wants with it (as long as he keeps making 7's to keep people like me happy).

Your suggestions of Jenson or Noble, both like Lotus come with a huge amount of negative baggage, he has been there and done that the last two years.

Most people have never heard of Caterham Cars so he has complete control of the brand, oh and most who have heard of the company know that Caterham is not in Kent, but Surrey...


Advertisement

#40 peacockantony

peacockantony
  • Member

  • 1,343 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:21

Ah well if they get hold of the Elise or something then that can only help.

But it just seems like Tony went for as you say the historical Lotus 7 connection and ended up in a rather silly place, with no useful infrastructure and a brand that's a small town in Kent.

Actually it was Caterham that approached Tony, they had been looking for investment, and Tony, with the only Lotus F1 team on the grid, would have been a good person to offer it too.

#41 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:24

But it just seems like Tony went for as you say the historical Lotus 7 connection and ended up in a rather silly place, with no useful infrastructure and a brand that's a small town in Kent.

Caterham said they were the ones who went for Fernandes.

It's quite odd that you say the 7 is a unknown car. I have heard about the 7 for many years and it was always along the lines of being a fun little car.

Also:
http://www.carpages....in_21_04_03.asp

Perhaps the design team should ditch the would be 129 and build the next car from a 7.

Edited by Red17, 29 November 2011 - 21:39.


#42 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:38

/facepalm

No, he went for a solvent small sports car manufacturer than has a existing affluent customer base, and great potential. He has a clean sheet of paper and can do whatever he wants with it (as long as he keeps making 7's to keep people like me happy).

Your suggestions of Jenson or Noble, both like Lotus come with a huge amount of negative baggage, he has been there and done that the last two years.

Most people have never heard of Caterham Cars so he has complete control of the brand, oh and most who have heard of the company know that Caterham is not in Kent, but Surrey...

Facepalm?

I just proved how SMALL Caterham the town is :lol: .

As for the rest - how useful is 'solvent'? Not at all is the answer.

He has the Formula 1 Team to promote his road cars. That's the whole idea. He could have started a new brand without the baggage, as you point out, of a totally different kind of car to what he's going to be making.

Or started with a brand that at least has some relevant values.

I'm not putting down Caterham in the slightest BTW. Once upon a time I too had a little spaceframe/fibreglass car with a Crossflow in it, and fantastic it was, but made around 1964. And like Caterham its 'brand values' included primitive, barely usable in the wet, extreme discomfort, and don't-even-think-about-it crashworthiness.

Anyway Tony's heart is in the right place so I really hope it works out.

#43 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:39

Here's BBC interview with TF & MG. KOV shows up in latter part. Looks and sounds like they're moving forward. Time will tell.

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


Really likeable guys, all of them and in light of today's news about Kimi I have to say Heikki is easily my favourite Fin. I hope they can make a big leap forward next year, with the addition of kers and the new regs levelling the playing field somewhat.

It would be outstanding if they finished ahead of Lotus next year. :lol:

#44 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:49

Caterham said they were the ones who went for Fernandes.

It's quite odd that you say the 7 is a unknown car. I have heard about the 7 for many years and it was always along the lines of being a fun little car.

Also:
http://www.carpages....in_21_04_03.asp

Perhaps the design team should ditch the would be 129 and build the next car from a 7.

Well Caterham may have asked but Tony still had to say Yes.

The Lotus 7 is famous, absolutely, maybe even the Caterham 7 is fairly well-known, and yes I remember the "Too fast to race" business. but the thing is the fit between Caterham and what Tony wants to do.

Because Caterhams look very expensive for what they are. The production processes will be useless for anything modern. The workforce will be entrenched in inapplicable practices. The brand has all kinds of unwanted values with a low cost theme.

So on the face of it I don't get it. But hopefully I'm wrong or it doesn't matter.

#45 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 November 2011 - 22:18

Because Caterhams look very expensive for what they are.


You are not the first to make that mistake :lol:


#46 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 22:36

You are not the first to make that mistake :lol:

You're not going to change any minds with that kind of posting.

Caterham 7 Classic 105 BHP £16,650

Honda Civic 1.4 i-VTEC SE - £16,495

Care to compare the specs, as in what you get for the money? Do you even get a roof on the Caterham? No. Heater? No

PAINT is an optional extra :stoned:

#47 davemsc

davemsc
  • Member

  • 44 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 29 November 2011 - 22:40

Because Caterhams look very expensive for what they are. The production processes will be useless for anything modern. The workforce will be entrenched in inapplicable practices. The brand has all kinds of unwanted values with a low cost theme.

So on the face of it I don't get it. But hopefully I'm wrong or it doesn't matter.

I think having a formula 1 team will benefit Caterham immensely. Remember Honda used F1 to feed into their road car business, and there is no reason why the same will not happen here. Their plans look pretty exciting, and as someone else has said, I'd love to see Heikki in a Caterham (the true Lotus team on the grid) beating Raikkonen's once again-rebadged Toleman :)

#48 Saturnus

Saturnus
  • Member

  • 282 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 29 November 2011 - 22:56

You're not going to change any minds with that kind of posting.

Caterham 7 Classic 105 BHP £16,650

Honda Civic 1.4 i-VTEC SE - £16,495

Care to compare the specs, as in what you get for the money? Do you even get a roof on the Caterham? No. Heater? No

Honda Civic:
100 BHP
1247 kg
62 mph (secs) 13.4

7:
105 BHP
525 kg
0-60mph: 6.5 Seconds

Are you really trying to make us belive those specs are comparable?
I don't think Caterham buyers will be pleased by the Honda and vice versa.

Edited by Saturnus, 29 November 2011 - 23:02.


#49 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 22:58

I think having a formula 1 team will benefit Caterham immensely. Remember Honda used F1 to feed into their road car business, and there is no reason why the same will not happen here. Their plans look pretty exciting, and as someone else has said, I'd love to see Heikki in a Caterham (the true Lotus team on the grid) beating Raikkonen's once again-rebadged Toleman :)

I agree totally!!! It's a huge shot in the arm for Caterham.

But starting from the point of view of Tony Fernandes wanting a car company to go with his F1 team, how much sense did Caterham make?

The brand is a fun brand but cheap and not that strong anyway. Kit cars. The infrastructure is for welding, riveting alloy and bolting parts together. Slowly.

He could have started from scratch, built a new brand with F1 and started in a new factory in the right place with the right facilities.

#50 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 29 November 2011 - 23:04

Honda Civic:
100 BHP
1680 kg
62 mph (secs) 13.4

7:
105 BHP
525 kg
0-60mph: 6.5 Seconds

Are you really trying to make us belive those specs are comparable?
I don't think Caterham buyers will be pleased by the Honda and vice versa.

No of course not.

I'm talking value not performance, obviously. Cost of production. If Honda were making a car that did the 7's job, it would be £4999 or something, tops.

My point being the value of Caterham's infrastructure to TF - nil at best.