Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 8 votes

Caterham F1 - 2012


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
2169 replies to this topic

#1701 alexSun

alexSun
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:38

Great job by Vitaly in Q and race!!! He was faster and made best use of tyre. Heikki also well done, but the work by Vitaly is better - very master and super!
If for this two pilots to give a quick car - they will always be on the podium (if the equipment does not fail).

Advertisement

#1702 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:45

Do you know what happened between them in the last laps? I think Heikki was ahead but somehow dropped 10 secs in a couple of laps. Vitaly's last laptime was 1.45 and Heikki's 1.51...


Heikki's tires probably gone, along with Glock towards the end. One can sense from the times, that Petrov managed his tires better.

Heikki already throwing SOS messages to the team;

"Thought (tough) race today, we were simply too slow. We gotta keep pushing tho there's no other way."

And with him sounding so desperate, I think he'd signed for the team for 2013.

For Tony, there's simply no excuse not wanting Petrov, unlike Trulli where he was dominated by Heikki. For me, the team has to absorb all the shortcomings this year.
Its going to be difficult, but the benefits of having Pic, with Renault and TOTAL (if true) will be too good to turn down.




#1703 awizul

awizul
  • Member

  • 64 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 October 2012 - 13:56

Heikki's tires probably gone, along with Glock towards the end. One can sense from the times, that Petrov managed his tires better.

Heikki already throwing SOS messages to the team;

"Thought (tough) race today, we were simply too slow. We gotta keep pushing tho there's no other way."

And with him sounding so desperate, I think he'd signed for the team for 2013.

For Tony, there's simply no excuse not wanting Petrov, unlike Trulli where he was dominated by Heikki. For me, the team has to absorb all the shortcomings this year.
Its going to be difficult, but the benefits of having Pic, with Renault and TOTAL (if true) will be too good to turn down.


And Pic's Marussia is the fastest amongst the 'new' team without KERS.. :drunk:

15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 48 1:43.517
16 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 52 1:44.462
17 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 43 1:44.955
18 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 50 1:45.013
19 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 42 1:45.236
20 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 3 1:47.066
21 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 39 1:47.068
22 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 9 1:49.861


#1704 alexSun

alexSun
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:05

And Pic's Marussia is the fastest amongst the 'new' team without KERS.. :drunk:

15 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 48 1:43.517
16 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 52 1:44.462
17 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 43 1:44.955
18 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 50 1:45.013
19 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 42 1:45.236
20 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 3 1:47.066
21 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 39 1:47.068
22 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 9 1:49.861

Pic was very slowly compare with Timo Glock. In this table only one Fast laps :)
Pic fly one lap and what??? He did not lose. Race was broken him.
More important to be stable and be able to keep the tires!!!
Very bad race from Pic (not first). I think that if Pic will be in Caterham - it's will very very bad news (he does not go to any comparison whith Vitaly or Heikki! they more best!!!).

What about KERS (so for thought... not for it's GP, example - GP Japan 2012) - if KERS not work - it's more more badly for balance car than on those car where KERS do not install.

Edited by alexSun, 15 October 2012 - 03:40.


#1705 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 860 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:16

And with him sounding so desperate, I think he'd signed for the team for 2013.

I don't think Heikki will be on the grid next year, imo. No better seats available, I can't see him staying at Caterham after making so many noises to move away. Plus, if Bottas is going to be on the grid next year, then history counts against him as there's never been three Finns on the F1 grid.

#1706 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,232 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:19

well, EJ predicting kovalainen may leave caterham seeing the competitiveness of the car. in the pre-show, kovalainen said he's getting old (30s) and if he wants to win a race again, he may have to move.

honestly though, i don't get what's the issue with caterham actually is ... you have the same engine, gearbox,KERS as RBR ... yet the pace is no better than Marussia ... i believe they have chased a blind alley with coanda exhaust without optimizing rear brake duct aero devices and the diffuser. also the FW of CT01 looks very similar to last years car, the overall feeding of air from front to rear seems to be the main trouble, also their rear tire wear is pretty bad. marussia made a good stride after debuting new floor. caterham should get their shits together and produce something par with Toro Rosso's

#1707 skywing

skywing
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:20

then history counts against him as there's never been three Finns on the F1 grid.

Hmm that's not true actually, in 1994 season's last two races we had Häkkinen, Lehto and Salo on the grid. :p

#1708 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 860 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:21

My bad :blush: should've checked the facts lol.

#1709 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 860 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:27

honestly though, i don't get what's the issue with caterham actually is ... you have the same engine, gearbox,KERS as RBR ... yet the pace is no better than Marussia ... i believe they have chased a blind alley with coanda exhaust without optimizing rear brake duct aero devices and the diffuser. also the FW of CT01 looks very similar to last years car, the overall feeding of air from front to rear seems to be the main trouble, also their rear tire wear is pretty bad. marussia made a good stride after debuting new floor. caterham should get their shits together and produce something par with Toro Rosso's

I think Caterham have the same problem Fernandes' football club, QPR, have. All this promise and money thrown around, yet there's still nothing really to show. It is a shame though, I just hope 2013 is better for Caterham.

#1710 TudorMiron

TudorMiron
  • Member

  • 211 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:18

I just don't understand why one would pay several mils in salary to a driver when their pay driver is just as fast or often faster.



#1711 alexSun

alexSun
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:02

I just don't understand why one would pay several mils in salary to a driver when their pay driver is just as fast or often faster.

Because they are both very good drivers! They are fighting among themselves, and show consistent results under pressure! -it's very important!
Whats for "Pay" :) - it's Modern F1 and modern world with new rules!!!!
Almost all pilots are pay divers directly on indirectly (Take the same Alonso with Santander) and those who came before in "Big circus" them luck.
It's understood and known. Justice and truth not!!!

Edited by alexSun, 15 October 2012 - 04:02.


#1712 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:05

I think Caterham have the same problem Fernandes' football club, QPR, have. All this promise and money thrown around, yet there's still nothing really to show. It is a shame though, I just hope 2013 is better for Caterham.



Very true. QPR also in the same situation. I think Tony is a guy who likes an idea, then throws money, get 1 or 2 highly regarded but past their prime people.
In return, this 1 or 2 people would then gather "his or her" gang, Tony would listen and throws more money based on their recommendations. He would then
place 1 person he really trusts to oversee the project. Sit back and hope for the best.

Nothing wrong of this, but Tony is easily swayed and influenced guy if he likes a certain thing.

For example, QPR, he has Mark Hughes who is influenced by Joorabchian. The latter is known to reap profits out of transfers of players.

I hope Caterham is not in the same situation.

Edited by CatInTheBag, 15 October 2012 - 15:17.


#1713 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:43

I just don't understand why one would pay several mils in salary to a driver when their pay driver is just as fast or often faster.



Here's an excerp from Joe Saward's blog;
http://joesaward.wor...f1-pay-drivers/

"When one understands the prize fund, one sees that it is more logical for a smaller team to take a risk and pay a half-decent driver a couple of million in order to be in a position to score points, rather than taking a pay-driver with a $10m budget.
This is why Sauber had Kamui Kobayashi, Caterham has Heikki Kovalainen, Marussia has Timo Glock and HRT has Pedro de la Rosa. These men MUST prove their value against pay-drivers or face paid dismissal. Right now Glock’s future is
not very bright as pay-driver Charles Pic has done a very decent job and Kovalainen needs to watch out as well because Vitaly Petrov has matched him all year."

Exactly like you mentioned.

But Heikki is more than a driver to Tony, he is a friend, one of a few who along with MG, started the F1 project. One of very few who was willing to put trust on the team to succeed, at its infancy.
In short, he has sentimental value, in my opinion. I could be wrong, though.  ;)



#1714 jals99

jals99
  • Member

  • 782 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:37

Exactly like you mentioned.

But Heikki is more than a driver to Tony, he is a friend, one of a few who along with MG, started the F1 project. One of very few who was willing to put trust on the team to succeed, at its infancy.
In short, he has sentimental value, in my opinion. I could be wrong, though.;)

You are right, Michael Andretti will not fire his son Marco from his team in Indy, in the same way Tony will never fire Heikki himself, as he is like son or brother for him, though Vitaly is leading him in races 7-6 this year despite coming after first tests and not being in the team for two years

Edited by jals99, 15 October 2012 - 09:38.


#1715 hippie

hippie
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:24

well, EJ predicting kovalainen may leave caterham seeing the competitiveness of the car. in the pre-show, kovalainen said he's getting old (30s) and if he wants to win a race again, he may have to move.

honestly though, i don't get what's the issue with caterham actually is ... you have the same engine, gearbox,KERS as RBR ... yet the pace is no better than Marussia ... i believe they have chased a blind alley with coanda exhaust without optimizing rear brake duct aero devices and the diffuser. also the FW of CT01 looks very similar to last years car, the overall feeding of air from front to rear seems to be the main trouble, also their rear tire wear is pretty bad. marussia made a good stride after debuting new floor. caterham should get their shits together and produce something par with Toro Rosso's

There doesn't seem to be any other seats available for next year, so continuing at Caterham is the most likely option for Kovalainen.

That coanda exhaust still appears to be one of the avenues that Caterham is exploring while trying to find more pace. Tony Fernandes told the Finnish F1 broadcaster MTV3 yesterday that Caterham hopes to bring an update to their exhaust system in Abu Dhabi. If the update works, Caterham should take a step closer to the midfield. The first point apparently still remains Caterham's target for this season.

#1716 Sanman59

Sanman59
  • Member

  • 268 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:21

Very true. QPR also in the same situation. I think Tony is a guy who likes an idea, then throws money, get 1 or 2 highly regarded but past their prime people.
In return, this 1 or 2 people would then gather "his or her" gang, Tony would listen and throws more money based on their recommendations. He would then
place 1 person he really trusts to oversee the project. Sit back and hope for the best.

Nothing wrong of this, but Tony is easily swayed and influenced guy if he likes a certain thing.

For example, QPR, he has Mark Hughes who is influenced by Joorabchian. The latter is known to reap profits out of transfers of players.

I hope Caterham is not in the same situation.




I think QPR is at least part of the problem. TF is no longer fully attentive to Caterham and QPR is a cash drain on him too. The possible signing of Charles Pic is proof of that and a lack of ambition.

:cry:



#1717 Jon83

Jon83
  • Member

  • 1,956 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:26

Great job by Vitaly in Q and race!!! He was faster and made best use of tyre. Heikki also well done, but the work by Vitaly is better - very master and super!
If for this two pilots to give a quick car - they will always be on the podium (if the equipment does not fail).


Easy tiger!

#1718 alexSun

alexSun
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:15

Easy tiger!

You know perfectly well what I mean. Just do not say that this pilots are not able to stand on the podium in a good car. Also level of this pilots is really increased compared to the past. Pilots and has nothing to prove - they were there!!! For small example, Lotus (Reno) in 2011 made ​​it possible to be on the podium, but in the first races. Then there was the fact that everyone knows: the technical restrictions, and the car in 2011 will not do another concept is not true - in fact, work began on E20 for 2012 - we are now and see! (behind the scenes dirt will not comment).

Edited by alexSun, 15 October 2012 - 19:17.


#1719 EagleEyes

EagleEyes
  • New Member

  • 12 posts
  • Joined: October 05

Posted 16 October 2012 - 00:31

...Also the FW of CT01 looks very similar to last years car, the overall feeding of air from front to rear seems to be the main trouble, also their rear tire wear is pretty bad. marussia made a good stride after debuting new floor. caterham should get their shits together and produce something par with Toro Rosso's


Really..? Looks pretty different to me!

Korea 2012: http://www.f1fanatic...-kore-20121.jpg
Korea 2011: http://www.f1fanatic...n_kore_2011.jpg

Granted, the 2011 pic is of Chandhok, but even comparing a slightly blurred photo of Trulli from the race, it's not exactly a stark change from that in the phot of Chandhok. http://www.f1fanatic...kore_2011-3.jpg

Advertisement

#1720 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:53

Just goes to show, having a 'fast' name - whether it's the current one or the the theft job they tried to pull originally, doesn't make for a fast car.

#1721 Jon83

Jon83
  • Member

  • 1,956 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:54

You know perfectly well what I mean. Just do not say that this pilots are not able to stand on the podium in a good car. Also level of this pilots is really increased compared to the past. Pilots and has nothing to prove - they were there!!! For small example, Lotus (Reno) in 2011 made ​​it possible to be on the podium, but in the first races. Then there was the fact that everyone knows: the technical restrictions, and the car in 2011 will not do another concept is not true - in fact, work began on E20 for 2012 - we are now and see! (behind the scenes dirt will not comment).


I think they are both decent enough drivers, nothing more.

#1722 alexSun

alexSun
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:43

I think they are both decent enough drivers, nothing more.

It is your right to think.....
But If the pilot has the following properties: stability, concentration, working with the engineers, the potential for progress, able to keep the tires, technical competence and understanding of the physical processes. Then it can be called a pilot - master!!! of these pilots are top - pilots (Unless of course the world has any chance of justice).
Your "decent" - is not that category, I think!
Maybe let's stop offtop, with respect for you!

Edited by alexSun, 16 October 2012 - 09:45.


#1723 Jon83

Jon83
  • Member

  • 1,956 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:46

It is your right to think.....
But If the pilot has the following properties: stability, concentration, working with the engineers, the potential for progress, technical competence and understanding of the physical processes. Then it can be called a pilot - master!!! of these pilots are top - pilots (Unless of course the world has any chance of justice).
Your "decent" - is not that category, I think!
Maybe let's stop offtop, with respect for you!


Fair enough :up:

By decent, I meant within F1. Obviously their driving ability is way above "decent"

#1724 InSearchOfThe

InSearchOfThe
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 18 October 2012 - 19:47

Is Alexander Rossi getting the friday drive in Austin? I haven't heard anything. He's had a below par season in 3.5 compared to his team mate, but I think it would give us yanks something to look forward to as far as U.S. hopefulls go.This Texas race needs to be a success the first year, and him driving friday couldn't hurt.

Edited by InSearchOfThe, 18 October 2012 - 19:49.


#1725 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 26 October 2012 - 14:07



Rossi I think will drive in the Young Drivers Test In Abu Dhabi.

The prospect of having 2 pay drivers may be coming true, according to Heikki.

http://www.f1zone.ne...y-driver/16370/

Not sure what this means;
The implication is clear: if Caterham’s budget falls short due to the lost Concorde earnings, the team will be tempted to replace the money with a ‘pay driver’.

I thought they will still receive 30mil for 2013. As for losing 10th this year, Caterham will still have a chance to get another 30mil in 2014, should they achieve 10th in 2013.

#1726 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,911 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:19

Rossi I think will drive in the Young Drivers Test In Abu Dhabi.

The prospect of having 2 pay drivers may be coming true, according to Heikki.

http://www.f1zone.ne...y-driver/16370/

Not sure what this means;
The implication is clear: if Caterham’s budget falls short due to the lost Concorde earnings, the team will be tempted to replace the money with a ‘pay driver’.

I thought they will still receive 30mil for 2013. As for losing 10th this year, Caterham will still have a chance to get another 30mil in 2014, should they achieve 10th in 2013.

They will get around $30 million usd as that is what eleventh and twelth spots get from the present Concorde agreement. They have lost $17 million us from falling out of Column 2 of the prize fund. Earnings for 2014 depend on the allocations for the new Concorde in addition to where they finish.

Edited by Petroltorque, 26 October 2012 - 16:20.


#1727 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,900 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 26 October 2012 - 21:24

They will get around $30 million usd as that is what eleventh and twelth spots get from the present Concorde agreement. They have lost $17 million us from falling out of Column 2 of the prize fund. Earnings for 2014 depend on the allocations for the new Concorde in addition to where they finish.


Uhm? 10th for 2 of the three last seasons, isn't that Column 2?

#1728 hippie

hippie
  • Member

  • 286 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 October 2012 - 22:44

Uhm? 10th for 2 of the three last seasons, isn't that Column 2?

I think that's Column 1. It seems that half of the prize fund is divided between the teams that have earned their Column 1 status by being in the top 10 two times in the past three years. In 2011 the Column 1 money was $34 million per team. The 11th and 12th teams get $30 million apiece, and they are in Column 3.

The other half of the prize fund is divided up based on performance. That's apparently the Column 2 money, which Caterham will lose if they finish 11th in the WCC this season. The team finishing in the 10th place gets 4 percent of the Column 2 money, and in 2011 it was about $13.6 million. But even if Caterham finishes 11th this year, they would still get the Column 1 money because they were 10th in the WCC in 2010 and 2011.

Source

There's four races left in this season, so it's a bit premature to say where Caterham will finish in the WCC this year. :)

Edited by hippie, 26 October 2012 - 22:45.


#1729 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:29

Fund 1 will provide $34m each for top 10. The Fund 2 is where they stand to lose money - approx $17.6m between 10th and 11th.

That's a lot of money. No wonder Tony is considering 2 pay drivers. Not only they screwed themselves, they screwed Heikki as well. He thought he was safe even if
he's not able to get a better team, because Caterham is the safety net. Now, not sure anymore.

As for the coanda exhaust for Abu Dhabi, not too sure about progress either, because it needs track time to tweak and evaluate, furthermore it degrades the engine's
HP. Not only will it show where the team stands before the season is out. It will more or less, give a glimpse of what to expect for 2013.

Caterham was about 1.0s behind midfield at the end of 2011 w/o KERS and RB gearbox. Many stories later, the gap stands at 1.0-1.5s behind.

So what can we expect for 2013 ?

+
1) Leafield (enhanced facility)
2) Mark Smith and John Iley
3) Cyril Abitaboul
4) ???

-
1) Possibly 2 pay drives who have no experience of the car.
2) A loss of $17.6m


Edited by CatInTheBag, 27 October 2012 - 10:41.


#1730 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,578 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:58

They will get around $30 million usd as that is what eleventh and twelth spots get from the present Concorde agreement. They have lost $17 million us from falling out of Column 2 of the prize fund. Earnings for 2014 depend on the allocations for the new Concorde in addition to where they finish.

I don't think Saward's $30m for 11th and 12th are correct. Why would they receive more money than the teams finishing ahead? $10m sounds more believable to me:

Posted Image

That would mean they'd "only" lose a few million bucks and probably some benefits.

Edit: Guess who wrote the article where i found that graphic.
http://www.hindustan...le1-949214.aspx

Edited by dau, 27 October 2012 - 11:00.


#1731 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:06

If JS is right, or telling the truth this time, then the team won't lose much yet. Approx $3.6m only. :clap:

No excuse for 2 pay drivers, Tony !

But this confuses me;
Tenth place in the Constructors' right now is dependent on a 12th place. If Narain Karthikeyan was to finish 11th in his HRT this weekend, that would be worth something like $12 million to the team.

HRT already got $10m, and 10th place will only get $13.6m

Previously, the teams won't get freight expenses, if any of the drivers fail to score a point. Does it still stand now ?

Edited by CatInTheBag, 27 October 2012 - 13:12.


#1732 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,911 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:47

I don't think Saward's $30m for 11th and 12th are correct. Why would they receive more money than the teams finishing ahead? $10m sounds more believable to me:

Posted Image

That would mean they'd "only" lose a few million bucks and probably some benefits.

Edit: Guess who wrote the article where i found that graphic.
http://www.hindustan...le1-949214.aspx

I agree. I thought $30 million is overly generous but I think that refers to the total amount of money they have received from FOM over the past 3 seasons. I'm sure I read that ecclestone allowed each of the new teams a payment for their first 3 seasons.

#1733 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,911 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 October 2012 - 15:52

If JS is right, or telling the truth this time, then the team won't lose much yet. Approx $3.6m only. :clap:

No excuse for 2 pay drivers, Tony !

But this confuses me;
Tenth place in the Constructors' right now is dependent on a 12th place. If Narain Karthikeyan was to finish 11th in his HRT this weekend, that would be worth something like $12 million to the team.

HRT already got $10m, and 10th place will only get $13.6m

Previously, the teams won't get freight expenses, if any of the drivers fail to score a point. Does it still stand now ?

Column 1 payments are dependent on Historical positions. Column 2 is dependent on performance in the present season. Thus Caterham stand to lose $13.f million. They still will accrue a column 1 payment.

#1734 skywing

skywing
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 27 October 2012 - 16:36

Column 1 payments are dependent on Historical positions. Column 2 is dependent on performance in the present season. Thus Caterham stand to lose $13.f million. They still will accrue a column 1 payment.

:confused: 13,6 million - 10 million = 3,6 million

#1735 TudorMiron

TudorMiron
  • Member

  • 211 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 27 October 2012 - 16:37

Great job by Vitaly - he was behind Kova in Q first half of the season but was beating him in races. Lately he's outpacing Heiki in Q. As I said the guy is still clearly progressing.
I still wonder why one would pay billions to one driver if his pay driver is as fast and often faster. Not much point talking about FOM money gain/loss when here's easy money on the table. Stop paying Kova and keep Petrov for free or with some healthy sponsorship package. He performs as good or arguably better than highly rated, highly paid Kovalainen but press still doesn't seem to notice it.

Thanks
Ted

Edited by TudorMiron, 27 October 2012 - 16:38.


#1736 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 27 October 2012 - 16:54


QPR looking like suicidal to me. If they don't stay up this season, Tony will lose even more millions !!! They are last and they always play with 10 men.

Caterham needs as much money as possible the way I see it now. So 2 pay drivers with substantial backing are critically needed.





#1737 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,911 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:11

:confused: 13,6 million - 10 million = 3,6 million

They're not getting $10 million. That was only for the first 3 years as a start up payment. Ther is no mention as to whether this payment continues foe 2013.

Edited by Petroltorque, 27 October 2012 - 17:54.


#1738 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 860 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 27 October 2012 - 17:47

QPR looking like suicidal to me. If they don't stay up this season, Tony will lose even more millions !!! They are last and they always play with 10 men.

Caterham needs as much money as possible the way I see it now. So 2 pay drivers with substantial backing are critically needed.

At the moment I don't think QPR are financially impacting Caterham as much as you'd expect, as the Mittal family are bankrolling Fernandes' Premier League dream. But if QPR are relegated and the Mittals lose interest, then Caterham could be in serious trouble in 2014 if Fernandes then has to bankroll both sports teams :well: .

If Petrov and Pic bring serious money, then Fernandes would be a fool to turn them down especially as Petrov has matched Heikki. I know van der Garde has been in FP1s but I can't see him in a race seat next year, as he hasn't convinced any team before with his sponsors so why would that change.

Edited by TheUltimateWorrier, 27 October 2012 - 17:47.


#1739 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,578 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 27 October 2012 - 18:05

They're not getting $10 million. That was only for the first 3 years as a start up payment. Ther is no mention as to whether this payment continues foe 2013.

2012 is the third of those 3 first years and the CA runs until Dec 31, so i don't see why they won't be eligible for the $10m this season?

Edited by dau, 27 October 2012 - 18:06.


Advertisement

#1740 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:35

At the moment I don't think QPR are financially impacting Caterham as much as you'd expect, as the Mittal family are bankrolling Fernandes' Premier League dream. But if QPR are relegated and the Mittals lose interest, then Caterham could be in serious trouble in 2014 if Fernandes then has to bankroll both sports teams :well: .

If Petrov and Pic bring serious money, then Fernandes would be a fool to turn them down especially as Petrov has matched Heikki. I know van der Garde has been in FP1s but I can't see him in a race seat next year, as he hasn't convinced any team before with his sponsors so why would that change.



Hope you are right. Not sure about the Mittal family bankrolling the QPR. But I've seen reports indicating that Mittal (the link man between QPR and Mittal) may think of leaving QPR. Players budget I think is Tony's. But the new stadium
project needs the Mittals fortunes. http://www.dailymail...QPR-future.html

As for Petrov for Caterham, not too sure about backing since Joe Saward had mentioned he may only have it in March. Can the team wait for so long ?

He's proven to be capable, no doubt, and I would prefer him than anyone else at this juncture.

#1741 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 1,911 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:52

2012 is the third of those 3 first years and the CA runs until Dec 31, so i don't see why they won't be eligible for the $10m this season?

Agreed. There's no doubt that HRT and Marussia would be in line for the $10 millin payout. What I'm unsure about is whether you'll get that payment once you've achieved column 1 status?

#1742 jals99

jals99
  • Member

  • 782 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 27 October 2012 - 19:59

As for Petrov for Caterham, not too sure about backing since Joe Saward had mentioned he may only have it in March. Can the team wait for so long ?

He's proven to be capable, no doubt, and I would prefer him than anyone else at this juncture.

They should sign him as first driver without money, and then wait for March. He will not ask for a large salary unlike Kovalainen, and could be taken without money with new teammate bringing money. If he is matching Heikki in first year after joining team before second tests with the car not build for him, then next year with proper preparation, he will be a lot stronger and he clearly has better potential than Heikki.
The problem is that Heikki is like son or brother for Tony - he is vey close with him, and he said it multiply times, so it will not be easy to sack him, even if it will cost millions euros for team.


#1743 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:39


Lap 42.

Good drive by both drivers. But Petrov is flying, and at the moment already ahead of Heikki and extending his advantage.



#1744 CatInTheBag

CatInTheBag
  • Member

  • 322 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:50

Lap 47.

Petrov driving for his F1 career. Heikki simply has no answer for his pace. Petrov's S2 pace keeps him ahead of Toro Rosso and Maldonado.
Although both the latter have had incidents earlier. But not sure he'll able to hold them for much longer.

Its a bit embarassing for Heikki at the moment.

Pic very good as well. Warrants a serious consideration from the team. Money, talent, well balanced.

Edited by CatInTheBag, 28 October 2012 - 10:59.


#1745 TFLB

TFLB
  • Member

  • 1,616 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:07

Kovalainen well beaten by Petrov. Again.

#1746 Wingcommander

Wingcommander
  • Member

  • 739 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:11

Not looking good for Heikki atm.

#1747 skywing

skywing
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:20

Honestly dissappointed with Heikki today... Vitaly did great though.

#1748 Zedderick

Zedderick
  • Member

  • 31 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:35

Have to see whether Heikki had a car problem, not that I'd say that to take away from Vitaly's performance. Does seem to follow a common trend though (well, one or both having cars problems seems a trend too... <_< >_>) - Heikki will usually be quite a distance ahead of Vitaly in the first stage of the Grand Prix, regardless of qualifying position, but Vitaly almost inexorably hunts him down and passes him, on the track, by the end of the race; sometimes long before the end of the race.

#1749 Francesc

Francesc
  • Member

  • 2,395 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:41

At every race it looks more likely that Kovalainen will be left out of F1.

#1750 jals99

jals99
  • Member

  • 782 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:43

At every race it looks more likely that Kovalainen will be left out of F1.

He would be great new driver for Merc in DTM, but he has to quit F1, has not impressed in 6 years, time to go now

Edited by jals99, 28 October 2012 - 11:43.