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The most significant person from each F1 decade?


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#1 Bauble

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:09

Shopping days to Christmas are fast running out, and the festive season is almost upon us, so in a spirit of jollity I invite like minded Posters to enter my latest wheeze.

We all have trouble when it comes to 'the greatest', 'the best', most 'versatile' even, and it is of course impossible to compare peaches with coconuts, so how about trying to limit the argument to a decade?

I propose that we put forward a case for the 'Most Significant Personality' in two categories, for each of the 10 year periods that the current Formula 1 Championship has run since 1950 (please let us ALL accept that there is only one Championship, despite any name, rule changes over the intervening years.), the idea is to avoid lengthy and pointless arguments concerning the merits of drivers from different era's.

So who would you name as the 'Personality' of Grand Prix Racing, and the 'Most Significant Person of the era? The MSP could be from any discipline or indeed none.
Each decade requires two answers. Capische?

1950 -59

1960 - 69

1970- 79

1980 - 89

1990 - 99

2000 - 2009

For those so inclined I also invite nominations for a special category, Pre 1950;

There are three divisions to cater for most of the likely entrants.

Europe.

The Americas

The Antipodese

I sincerely hope that there will be no controversy, and I acknowledge that the 'rules' are open to criiticism of being 'loose', however I would emphasise that this is a 'bit of Christmas fun and not World War Three.


Example' 1960 - 69 GP personality: Graham Clark. MSP: Jean Marie Balustrades.

It is not neccessary to enter names in each era, you may be selective.

NB: No doubt some grizzled veteran will tell us that "It's all be done before" back in 1998 or such, but with new members joining all the time and changing perceptions, who cares?
It's worth another go.

Guileless Bauble.

Edited by Bauble, 29 November 2011 - 11:11.


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#2 BRG

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:13

Is it permissible to nominate Edgar Jessop for all categories?

#3 kayemod

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:30

Is Bauble pulling all his recent questions out of an early Christmas cracker?

#4 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:50

I sincerely hope that there will be no controversy,

I sincerely hope there will!

#5 Bauble

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 13:29

Is it permissible to nominate Edgar Jessop for all categories?


If that's what turns you on!!!

#6 Bauble

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 13:30

Is Bauble pulling all his recent questions out of an early Christmas cracker?


Maybe, your crackers?

#7 Bauble

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 13:31

I sincerely hope there will!


There's always one ....!

#8 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 13:40

Sorry I took this seriously, I can see I should not have. So post removed.

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 29 November 2011 - 15:26.


#9 Roger Clark

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 15:17

Was there any motor racing before 1950?

#10 Bauble

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 16:51

Sorry I took this seriously, I can see I should not have. So post removed.


Humble apologies, quite out of order, thank you for what was a most appropriate post. :o

#11 GMACKIE

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 20:18

Isn't the idea a bit loose/controversial?

#12 Charlieman

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:03

I don't have a strong enough opinion to nominate for all six periods. For example, I found the drivers for the 1960 - 1979 to be very colourful but declining thereafter. So I would feel happy remarking on three periods -- the ones that make me spark -- but it would be a chore (possibly self educational) to comment on 2000 - 2009.

#13 jj2728

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 21:56

Only one personality springs to mind......Toto Roche.

#14 Sharman

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:06

Bauble
We are approaching what is usually term the "Season of Peace and Goodwill". Your sheer effrontery in posing such contentious questions leaves me (almost) speechless. I have crossed you off my Christmas Card List

#15 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:24

Isn't the idea a bit loose/controversial?



Ah! But is it loosely controversial or controversionally loose? That is the question.

#16 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:26

I don't have a strong enough opinion to nominate for all six periods. For example, I found the drivers for the 1960 - 1979 to be very colourful but declining thereafter. So I would feel happy remarking on three periods -- the ones that make me spark -- but it would be a chore (possibly self educational) to comment on 2000 - 2009.


Chas Man!,
Just do the best you can, even a limited reply is better than the blithering of idiots. (they know who they are)

Give it a lash mate.

Cheers

bauble.

#17 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:27

Only one personality springs to mind......Toto Roche.



JJ You may need a stronger spring! ):

#18 GMACKIE

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:30

Ah! But is it loosely controversial or controversionally loose? That is the question.

Yes.


#19 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:33

Bauble
We are approaching what is usually term the "Season of Peace and Goodwill". Your sheer effrontery in posing such contentious questions leaves me (almost) speechless. I have crossed you off my Christmas Card List



Christmas Card! Humbug!

PS; If the breathtaking sweep of the intellect required to concieve and put into effect such an elegant plan, is beyond your comprehension, may I respectfully suggest that you take lessons at a suitable educational establishment on 'Higher Philosophical Semantics'.

Merry Chris ..........................

The Bauble.

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#20 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 08:36

Yes.



Correct. Go to the head of the class. :)

#21 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:05

Heck I give it a whirl anyway.

The premise of 'Most Significant Personality' is thankfully ambiguous, thus I can use it as I am seem fit. To me each era of F1 racing have to an extent been defined by a few specific drivers, and non-drivers. So for the drivers my 'Most Significant Personality' is the driver who defined F1 publically, for good and bad for contention and glamour.

1950 - 1959 - Driver Most Significant Personality - Juan Manuel Fangio.

There was Fangio on a planet all by himself, other winners were measured against Fangio, he was the undoubted and unqualified best driver in the world.

1960 - 1969 - Driver Most Significant Personality - Jim Clark.

Personified F1 racing when he was alive, not on the level of Fangio compared to other drivers, he was however the driver whom every was racing apart from racing for wins.

1970- 1979

1980 - 1989 - Driver Most Significant Personality - Ayrton Senna.

Brought the win at all cost, diabolical and angelical to F1, at a time when F1 was exploding in to the mass media he was more than any other driver the personification of F1.

1990 - 1999

2000 - 2009 - Driver Most Significant Personality - Michael Schumacher.

Before his return, from 2000 through 2006 he was Fangio'esque in his dominance. Taking almost half the wins, racing for Ferrari and fully excelling in the persona created by Senna of the dark side / white side in the public visage.

I am not nominating drivers in 1970 - 79 and 1990 - 99, as with my definition no single driver stand out in a way which can be matched by my nominies.

1990 - 1999 - Non driver most Significant Personality - Bernie Ecclestone
2000 - 2009 - Non driver most Significant Personality - Bernie Ecclestone


He have single-handedly made F1 into one of the biggest sports in the world, he is also a very polarizing personality, however as much as the Fans have decided to loathe him, he have made multi millionaires out of a hundreds of people over the past 2 decades.

:cool:

#22 Bloggsworth

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:19

If it's personality you're talking about, then 60 to 69 would have to be Graham Hill.

#23 mikeC

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:25

If it's personality you're talking about, then 60 to 69 would have to be Graham Hill.


My sentiments, too :up:

#24 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:40

While I launched this exciting topic to revive drooping spirits, and enliven the humdrum lives of my fellow TNF's, and not to postulate any particular answers to the questions posed, I wondered if the Significant Other of the 1960's might not be Colin Chapman? Just a thought.

Organiser.

#25 GMACKIE

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:43

Yes.

#26 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:44

I can not see how personality is of interest. This is a racing forum, we are discussing F1 racers why does it matter if they have personality or not? In todays media world, we see less and less of the true personality of athletes anyway.

"I would like to thank Team KWSN - DSM xyz sprockets powered by Lada for giving me a great car"

"No more questions"

Senna whom I nominate as a personality, and who have been almost deified since his dead, was a petty, petulant, arrogant sob. But he was also the best driver in world, and arguably the best ever. Does his personal faults and virtues matter to me? No not one iota, does his racing matter? Yes a lot.

But that is then how I chose to read the OP.

:cool:

#27 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:45

While I launched this exciting topic to revive drooping spirits, and enliven the humdrum lives of my fellow TNF's, and not to postulate any particular answers to the questions posed, I wondered if the Significant Other of the 1960's might not be Colin Chapman? Just a thought.

Organiser.


Yes would make sense to have Chapman somewhere.

:cool:

#28 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:03

I can not see how personality is of interest. This is a racing forum, we are discussing F1 racers why does it matter if they have personality or not? In todays media world, we see less and less of the true personality of athletes anyway.

"I would like to thank Team KWSN - DSM xyz sprockets powered by Lada for giving me a great car"

"No more questions"

Senna whom I nominate as a personality, and who have been almost deified since his dead, was a petty, petulant, arrogant sob. But he was also the best driver in world, and arguably the best ever. Does his personal faults and virtues matter to me? No not one iota, does his racing matter? Yes a lot.

But that is then how I chose to read the OP.

:cool:



As always terminology can be confusing, the object of having two categories is allow persons other than the then current Grands Prix drivers to be recognised for their contribution to the sport.* In the case of the '50's Fangio is a pretty obvious choice for the driver, but Enzo Ferrari may well figure as the person(ality). It is not about the individuals 'personality, more profile within motor racing. Rally driver, team owner, official, designer or even another driver say. In the '50's Stirling Moss might well be the most highly recognised personality yet not the best Grand Prix driver.

Hope this clears up your point.

Cheers,

Bauble.

* Hence my earlier blunder! Clark may well have been 'just another driver' without Colin Chapman and Lotus.

Edited by Bauble, 30 November 2011 - 10:07.


#29 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:08

Yes.


You,Sir are the soul of brevity.

#30 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:19

Contribution comes in many ways, as I wrote I am looking for the angle of 'who is F1' to the world outside the inner workings of F1 forums like this. And will argue that the drivers I selected were 'F1' to anyone not following the sport as such.

Chapman is a good suggestion, I am not certain that Enzo Ferrari ever at one time was as iconoclastic as that. He were involved from the early 1920ies, and by virtue of creating a brand which in time became an icon in itself, took on mythical importance. The story of Enzo Ferrari can not be hanged on a hook in any of the decades he were involved.

If looking aside from the drivers I suggested, and placing more on your idea of contribution, then Stewart for his safety campaign, Moss for his gentleman driver never winning the ultimate championship fit in. I do not think that we see a lot of true contribution in these modern times from the drivers, they have become the paid pilots, and are distancing themselves more from the overall sport.

As there are unique drivers, there are unique personalities but only in hindsight can we truly appreciate how much, or how little they gave to the sport. The sport have changed a lot over the years, and what was once a clique is now a billion dollar enterprise, making for the paradigm shift is less and less likely to occur, we are like it or not in an era where the sport is being dumbed down towards the lowest common denominator, and we will see less and less of individuals standing out and above the general populace of the sport.

:cool:

#31 wenoopy

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:25


No Enzo Ferrari? Not anywhere? Are we still exacting revenge for World War II?

Stu

#32 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:45

No Enzo Ferrari? Not anywhere? Are we still exacting revenge for World War II?

Stu


I gave my reasons for not adding him in a single decade.

But seems I am the only one really posting, rest is light commentary.

:cool:

#33 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:52

I gave my reasons for not adding him in a single decade.

But seems I am the only one really posting, rest is light commentary.

:cool:


And I commend your efforts, as you say they are the only attempt so far to take a real stab at it.

I do enjoy a bit of whitty banter as well.

#34 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:33

I can go OOT on personalities, and impact on F1 / rest of world.

Enzo Ferrari may arguably be THE personality when talking F1 racing, having started in the 1920ies, he were an integral part of the F1 championships prior Second World war, and when he created Ferrari as a car manufacturer, supposedly to bank roll his racing team, he created an automotive icon, which for the world at large = F1.

As anyone who does not follow F1 to name 2 F1 teams, and Ferrari will be one of them. Go to a race, and see the different teams garb the spectators are wearing, and 50% are in some sort of Ferrari wear, the legend that became Ferrari also became Enzo Ferrari "il Commendatore", his spanning the decades, the last many years of his life he stopped attending the F1 races, and became a living icon running the team behind dark glasses from Maranello.

Few individuals can be mentioned as important to F1 and it's success than Enzo Ferrari.

:cool:

#35 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 15:21

Naming drivers is easy, it is just a matter of statistics and personal opinion, but when it comes to sigmificant others, as I will call them, it seems to be less so, therefore I offer up just a few names that spring to mind who may justify such a description;

John Barnard
Jean Marie Balestre
Max Mosely
Adrian Newey
Frank Williams
Lofty England
Alfred Neubauer
Maserati Brothers
Rob Walker
Michelle Mouton
Sir Alfred Owen
Louis Stanley
Raymond Mays
Tony Vandervell
Jano
Ghia
Briggs Cunningham
Herman Tilke

Not exhaustive, just some that come instantly in to mind.

#36 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:22

Naming drivers is easy, it is just a matter of statistics and personal opinion, but when it comes to sigmificant others, as I will call them, it seems to be less so, therefore I offer up just a few names that spring to mind who may justify such a description;

John Barnard
Jean Marie Balestre
Max Mosely
Adrian Newey
Frank Williams
Lofty England
Alfred Neubauer
Maserati Brothers
Rob Walker
Michelle Mouton
Sir Alfred Owen
Louis Stanley
Raymond Mays
Tony Vandervell
Jano
Ghia
Briggs Cunningham
Herman Tilke

Not exhaustive, just some that come instantly in to mind.


All note worthy persons in their own right, but I am not in agreement that they fall into:

I propose that we put forward a case for the 'Most Significant Personality' in two categories, for each of the 10 year periods that the current Formula 1 Championship has run since 1950 (please let us ALL accept that there is only one Championship, despite any name, rule changes over the intervening years.), the idea is to avoid lengthy and pointless arguments concerning the merits of drivers from different era's.


:cool:


#37 elansprint72

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:35

Bill Boddy. Every year.

#38 Richard Young

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:58

DSJ ?

#39 Bauble

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:59

All note worthy persons in their own right, but I am not in agreement that they fall into:


Surely at least one or two might be worthy of inclusion? John Barnard was the premier designer of his time and came up with the 'Coke Bottle' design, Tony Vandervell formed a Grands Prix team which won many races and had a driver line up at one time of Stirling Moss, Tony Brooks and Stuart Lewis-Evans!

You are very hard to please. :)

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#40 GMACKIE

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 20:01

You,Sir are the soul of brevity.

Ahh, soul.........I believe you are not the first to call me that.

Edit.......Apologies to KWSN - DSM.

Edited by GMACKIE, 30 November 2011 - 20:03.


#41 Charlieman

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 20:24

...I wondered if the Significant Other of the 1960's might not be Colin Chapman? Just a thought.


My thoughts were on Black Jack and Ron.

#42 jj2728

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:21

JJ You may need a stronger spring! ):


My spring as sprung....

#43 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:22

Surely at least one or two might be worthy of inclusion? John Barnard was the premier designer of his time and came up with the 'Coke Bottle' design, Tony Vandervell formed a Grands Prix team which won many races and had a driver line up at one time of Stirling Moss, Tony Brooks and Stuart Lewis-Evans!

You are very hard to please. :)


Your rules do not allow me to argue for or against any of them.

;-)

:cool:


#44 pizzakrap

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 06:56

50-59 fangio maybe ascari
60-69 clark from a f1 enthusiasts point of view g hill from the public point of view
70-79 stewart and lauda for driving hunt for for being the recognisable figur to the masses
80-89 prost as a driver mansell (i know i know but dispite his faults when he was running interest in the sport at least in the uk skyrocketed) for personality which in it'self is ironic as by all accounts he didnt have one
90-99 senna and schumi not a senna fan but he was the fastest out there and you could argue that what happend at imola had a direct effect on the type of racing we see today. ( safety regs track standards etc)
2000-2009 like him or hate him the stats are there

as for non drivers
50-59 ferrari
60-69 chapman
70-79 montezemelo or hesketh
80-89 barnard and murray
90-99 newey and brawn
2000-2009 ditto

honerable mention goes to bernie and balestre with max heading up the rear (or was it taking it up the rear) for shaping the sport and inviting controversy at exactly the right moments


#45 mikeC

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:32

...as for non drivers
50-59 ferrari
60-69 chapman
70-79 montezemelo or hesketh
80-89 barnard and murray
90-99 newey and brawn
2000-2009 ditto...

I cannot disagree with these, but would like to add Tony Vandervell, Rob Walker and Ken Tyrell to the list.

#46 Bloggsworth

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:32

That's sneaky, changing the title of the thread...

#47 Bloggsworth

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:34

I can not see how personality is of interest. This is a racing forum, we are discussing F1 racers why does it matter if they have personality or not? In todays media world, we see less and less of the true personality of athletes anyway.

"I would like to thank Team KWSN - DSM xyz sprockets powered by Lada for giving me a great car"

"No more questions"

Senna whom I nominate as a personality, and who have been almost deified since his dead, was a petty, petulant, arrogant sob. But he was also the best driver in world, and arguably the best ever. Does his personal faults and virtues matter to me? No not one iota, does his racing matter? Yes a lot.

But that is then how I chose to read the OP.

:cool:


If you had ever attended a talk by Graham Hill you would not say that personality does not matter.

#48 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:14

If you had ever attended a talk by Graham Hill you would not say that personality does not matter.


I am too young, and I am not saying that personality does not matter. I am saying that how I read the OP, personality does not matter. I would prefer that the drivers showed more of them selves, and that both teams and fans would not class that as 'throwing toys out of the pram'.

:cool:

#49 sterling49

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:26

I think that the multi titled driver of the red car nominated for personality, puzzles me more than a little :confused:

Agree entirely Bloggs............

Edited by sterling49, 01 December 2011 - 11:27.


#50 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:44

I think that the multi titled driver of the red car nominated for personality, puzzles me more than a little :confused:

Agree entirely Bloggs............


I tried to explain where I came from, and why I chose whom I chose.

:cool: