Edited by retrognome, 01 December 2011 - 10:32.
The Roger Albert Clark Rally 2011
#1
Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:29
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#2
Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:28
#3
Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:52
#4
Posted 01 December 2011 - 16:29
Makes you wonder if this can still be done for historic rallying why the traditional format of the much missed RAC rally as final round of the WRC cannot be re-instated?
Two reasons for it's success, one it's very tough and authentic and b, its not part of a Championship. We will be posting plenty of images at www.retro-speed.co.uk as from Saturday night.
#5
Posted 01 December 2011 - 16:30
Makes you wonder if this can still be done for historic rallying why the traditional format of the much missed RAC rally as final round of the WRC cannot be re-instated?
Well, the format of the R.A.C. (as some of us describe the Roger Albert Clark to separate it from the "real" RAC) is somewhat closer to the modern Rally GB than any "true" RAC (R.I.P.) I did. Sadly, I think we all know why it can't go back (especialy to the "5 days with 1 night in bed" that it once was).
I don't think my pocket would stand the old format on fuel alone (£800 in 1984, I daren't even think about its cost today...)
#6
Posted 01 December 2011 - 16:33
Two reasons for it's success, one it's very tough and authentic.
There's a few service crew from the old days who would dispute that, after seeing enough of Carlisle Airport to last a lifetime and then some on previous modern R.A.C.s!
Incidently, my old car that did 2 "real" RACs in the early 80s is out yet again on the R.A.C. this year, still on its original shell.
Edited by RS2000, 01 December 2011 - 16:36.
#7
Posted 01 December 2011 - 19:35
There's a few service crew from the old days who would dispute that, after seeing enough of Carlisle Airport to last a lifetime and then some on previous modern R.A.C.s!
Incidently, my old car that did 2 "real" RACs in the early 80s is out yet again on the R.A.C. this year, still on its original shell.
Watching the service crews on last year's 'Roger Albert' slaving away in the mud and the snow certainly seemed 'authentic' to me. Let's hope the weather is better this year! it was disappointing not to see more 'historics' out on WRC Wales Rally GB. I'm not sure why?
#8
Posted 01 December 2011 - 20:38
#9
Posted 01 December 2011 - 20:50
it was disappointing not to see more 'historics' out on WRC Wales Rally GB. I'm not sure why?
I've no idea how many were out on the Rally GB "historic" element but I guess, as was debated in various places when they first announced an historic category alongside it, the two events have to be competing for the available total entry and there can't really be room for two events so close together.
I'll refrain from the invective delivered to the MSA at what some see as an attempt to "rob" the Roger Albert of a great idea (and entries) but it is very difficult not to believe some elements in the MSA find the R.A.C. Rally's popularity an embarrassment (a simple case of "not invented here" syndrome or something more sinister?).
The snow last year seemed to upset a lot of people and even those who revelled in that would I'm sure accept the lost stages made it poor value overall. Back in the day, of course, some of the greatest RACs were the snowy ones.
Another factor, which accounts for at least two leading cars that I'm aware of, is that the BHRC has become a very expensive and very competitive series and adding the R.A.C. afterwards to one's programme vastly increases the season's expense. A BHRC Category winner who is an R.A.C. regular wrote his car off in the BHRC campaign and finding a good shell, quite apart from preparing it, is not so easy these days.
I wish the 2011 R.A.C. the best but they certainly do seem to have bad luck - either lower entries than desirable or other problems like the weather.
#10
Posted 01 December 2011 - 22:00
I've no idea how many were out on the Rally GB "historic" element but I guess, as was debated in various places when they first announced an historic category alongside it, the two events have to be competing for the available total entry and there can't really be room for two events so close together.
I'll refrain from the invective delivered to the MSA at what some see as an attempt to "rob" the Roger Albert of a great idea (and entries) but it is very difficult not to believe some elements in the MSA find the R.A.C. Rally's popularity an embarrassment (a simple case of "not invented here" syndrome or something more sinister?).
The snow last year seemed to upset a lot of people and even those who revelled in that would I'm sure accept the lost stages made it poor value overall. Back in the day, of course, some of the greatest RACs were the snowy ones.
Another factor, which accounts for at least two leading cars that I'm aware of, is that the BHRC has become a very expensive and very competitive series and adding the R.A.C. afterwards to one's programme vastly increases the season's expense. A BHRC Category winner who is an R.A.C. regular wrote his car off in the BHRC campaign and finding a good shell, quite apart from preparing it, is not so easy these days.
I wish the 2011 R.A.C. the best but they certainly do seem to have bad luck - either lower entries than desirable or other problems like the weather.
The WRC Wales Rally GB National Catagory is to allow National licence holders a chance to compare their performance with the professionals. Cynics would also add it bumps up the entries and generates income.We supported two cars, a well prepared amateur
Impreza and an Alpine Renault which found the stages to rough. The Impreza crew enjoyed the experience but were disappointed that, this year they were divorced from the main event, with no finish at Cardiff. There is a great atmosphere surrounding the Roger Albert Clark, because, primarily, there are no championship points at stake. And under the current economic conditions, I would have thought fifty four entries is pretty good. Regarding last year, it was my impression that Colin and his team received voluptuous praise from the competitors for retaining ninety per cent of the route and showing great tenacity under huge pressure. bad luck doesn't come in to it. It's North Yorkshire in December! Roll the dice.
Edited by retrognome, 01 December 2011 - 22:02.
#11
Posted 02 December 2011 - 19:52
Co-incidently, and slightly OT, I (almost) bumped into the BHRC Cat3 winner this morning (head on, in a narrow single track country lane) when heading out shopping. Having written off his "historic" car and not having entered the R.A.C. this year, he was still heading north later to support others on the event.
#12
Posted 02 December 2011 - 21:19
I think bad luck does come into it. Yorkshire never stopped the "real" RAC to quite the same extent in the snow as it did the R.A.C. last year. I was there for most of the most snowy RAC visits. The R.A.C. organisers faced exceptional conditions last year, as did the country as a whole. Bad luck for them then as well as bad luck in suffering some low entries and financial losses in earlier years, despite the widespread acclaim for the event. Unfortunately, some who lavish public praise on a magic concept and exceptional efforts of organisation then fail to provide their support in entering when it is most needed.
Co-incidently, and slightly OT, I (almost) bumped into the BHRC Cat3 winner this morning (head on, in a narrow single track country lane) when heading out shopping. Having written off his "historic" car and not having entered the R.A.C. this year, he was still heading north later to support others on the event.
After day one Escorts fill fourteen of the top fifteen places with Gwyndaf Evans leading. David Stokes is not far behind but Stefaan Stoef went off on SS2 and is currently in a lowly twenty ninth place. he Stratos of Steve Perez is going well and starts tomorrow in fifteenth place.
#13
Posted 02 December 2011 - 21:20
I think bad luck does come into it. Yorkshire never stopped the "real" RAC to quite the same extent in the snow as it did the R.A.C. last year. I was there for most of the most snowy RAC visits. The R.A.C. organisers faced exceptional conditions last year, as did the country as a whole. Bad luck for them then as well as bad luck in suffering some low entries and financial losses in earlier years, despite the widespread acclaim for the event. Unfortunately, some who lavish public praise on a magic concept and exceptional efforts of organisation then fail to provide their support in entering when it is most needed.
Co-incidently, and slightly OT, I (almost) bumped into the BHRC Cat3 winner this morning (head on, in a narrow single track country lane) when heading out shopping. Having written off his "historic" car and not having entered the R.A.C. this year, he was still heading north later to support others on the event.
After day one Escorts fill fourteen of the top fifteen places with Gwyndaf Evans leading. David Stokes is not far behind but Stefaan Stoef went off on SS2 and is currently in a lowly twenty ninth place. The Stratos of Steve Perez is going well and starts tomorrow in fourteenth place.
Edited by retrognome, 02 December 2011 - 22:16.
#14
Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:50
#15
Posted 04 December 2011 - 17:35
Bad timing on my part prevented me from seeing anything other than the Croft stage but well worth it. Very atmospheric and took me back to the real thing - which I never missed for 20 odd years. As in period , Escorts everywhere but some of them sounded just magnificent - that aggressive bark is really one of the best sounds ever in motor sport. Stratos sonded lovely too, even if its extreme twitchiness made it easy meat for the quicker Fords, Saab 2 strokes, Lancia Fulvia and the odd 911 (very rare in period actually ) made it agood way to spend a wintry afternoon.
Gwnydaf Evans was holding a five mint lead with just the final stage to run through Twiglees today. the Stratos is up to twelfth while the little 1.3 Fulvia has suffered clutch problems, which have now been rectified. More stages tomorrow morning then into Carlisle for the finish.
#16
Posted 04 December 2011 - 17:53
#17
Posted 04 December 2011 - 19:54
#18
Posted 04 December 2011 - 21:57
Try YouTube. There's already some stuff on there.
It really was a great day in the forests. Heavy snow this morning in Twiglees for around twenty minutes kept things very interesting and really enjoyed the water jump during the afternoon. A daily report and a few images are at www.retro-speed.co.uk
#19
Posted 05 December 2011 - 16:17
#21
Posted 05 December 2011 - 20:06
On one of the early BHRC events in 2011 it was very clear the two fastest cars had "blown out the stuffing" and the 3rd fastest had not.
#22
Posted 05 December 2011 - 23:13
Several comments on this thread about sound. Whatever it is today, it is (largely, no names...) not what it was in the day. Wishful thinking if anyone believes it is. Perhaps the most noticeable is the Fulvia, presumably less powerful than the RAC winning cars of 69/70 but, even allowing for that, the original "bark" has totally disappeared. Current 100Db, sadly, is no comparison, whether it is Escort or Stratos.
On one of the early BHRC events in 2011 it was very clear the two fastest cars had "blown out the stuffing" and the 3rd fastest had not.
Not quite sure what your saying, the Stratos could be heard for miles, it's engine noise rising and falling with each gear change while the Fulvia could be recognised by it's slightly uneven and unusual engine beat. The 2011 Roger Albert Clark was a true test of machinery and service crews. I loved every minute, as did every driver, spectator and marshal I spoke too. Reports and images from each day will be followed by a full report and gallery over the next couple of days www.retro-speed.co.uk
#23
Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:33
We know who has initially failed noise tests in the recent past. Of course no one ever adds "temporary" (MSA wording) material to silencing systems...
Whether or not still running "legal" on the stages, the raw edge has gone from them all, compared to back in the day. (Not entirely a negative if it's what it takes to be allowed to run these days but it's not "just like the old days").
It's a bit like historic racing outside the "unsilenced" events. Last year someone I know running in HSCC Race Saloons was so concerned at what effect the enormous silencer was having that he asked me: "but what does it actually SOUND like on the track?". I thought it sounded OK - but no way was it fully "period".
#24
Posted 06 December 2011 - 18:29
I said: "largely, no names..."
We know who has initially failed noise tests in the recent past. Of course no one ever adds "temporary" (MSA wording) material to silencing systems...
Whether or not still running "legal" on the stages, the raw edge has gone from them all, compared to back in the day. (Not entirely a negative if it's what it takes to be allowed to run these days but it's not "just like the old days").
It's a bit like historic racing outside the "unsilenced" events. Last year someone I know running in HSCC Race Saloons was so concerned at what effect the enormous silencer was having that he asked me: "but what does it actually SOUND like on the track?". I thought it sounded OK - but no way was it fully "period".
I know what you mean. My Fulvia 1.6 HF is marginal on induction noise but in the Alps during the night sections of the Winter Challenge to Monte Carlo a few days ago it sounded absolutely wonderful.
Edited by retrognome, 06 December 2011 - 18:29.
#25
Posted 06 December 2011 - 18:34
Congratulations to Guy Woodcock on 5th overall, in among the BDA/Gs and a staggering 13 minutes ahead of any remotely comparable car - in the car I built for the 1982 RAC from a police car, still on its original shell today.
it may make you smile to know it was Guy who gave me a good face full of mud at the water splash. that image plus more are now in a devoted gallery at www.retro-speed.co.uk.
#26
Posted 10 December 2011 - 14:18
David Stokes/Guy Weaver (Escort RS1600)
Phil Collins/Nicky Grist (Opel Ascona 400)
Lionel Hansen/Johan Jalet (Porsche 911SC)
for RS2000, Guy Woodcock/Graham Dance (Escort RS2000)
Guy Smith/Patrick Walsh (Ford Escort)
Neville Jones/Chris Davies (Ford Escort)
In the supporting Clubman rally, Mark Shaw/Ken Willan (Talbot Sunbeam Ti)
#27
Posted 10 December 2011 - 14:27
Jim Valentine/Jonathan Lodge (Saab 96 2 stroke)
Bob Bean/Malcolm Smithson (Ford Lotus Cortina Mk.1)
Andrew Borthwick/Dave Robson (Talbot Sunbeam Lotus)
Marcus Dodd/Andrew Bargery (Ford Escort)
The ex-works Ford Escort of Dave Watkins/Paul Train
Christophe Jacob/Stephane Prevot (Escort RS)
#28
Posted 10 December 2011 - 14:35
Ian Hildreth/Stephen Stead (Ford Escort)
Terry Nowlan/Ben Giles (Escort RS1600)
Steve Graham/Tony Graham (Lancia Fulvia)
David Thirwell/Dean Grabham (Ford Escort) in the supporting Kall Kwik event
Nick Pinkett/Hugh Myers (Saab 96)
Old fashioned servicing (just as well it wasn't raining, though!) - Charlie Taylor/Steve Bielby (Ford Escort)
And roadside servicing for the glorious Lancia Stratos of Steve Perez/Paul Spooner
#29
Posted 10 December 2011 - 14:52
And there was me, thinking that it was you that was indulging us!And if you'll indulge me, a final set.
Thanks for these, all great shots. Especially Dave Thirwell showing just how sideways you can get a Mk1 (unless he was spinning it, of course)
#30
Posted 10 December 2011 - 16:21
#31
Posted 10 December 2011 - 16:33
#32
Posted 10 December 2011 - 17:34
Fabulous photos ! Thank you for posting, how did Bob Bean finish ?
At the ripe old age of 73 Bob Bean won the pre 1967 Class
#33
Posted 13 December 2011 - 15:14
I must have some more time on the X-box now - Colin McRae 2005 is about the best rallying fun you can get...