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Radial Internal Combustion Wave Rotor


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#1 Murl

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 22:25

Following on from that old saying, competition improves the breed". Should F1 get into something different, like this?


http://www.zdnet.com...-efficient/1887

I know it would probably sound dreadful.
The part that appeals to me is seeing a return of engine manufacturer competition.

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#2 24gerrard

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 23:00

Why bother with an engine, use a fuel cell stack.
Hydrogen, Ethanol or LPG.
There are cell systems for any of them.

#3 bigleagueslider

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:17

Murl,

That Wave Rotor engine relies on propagation of acoustic waves and detonation type combustion for operation. Detonation combustion is a very efficient and low emissions process since it occurs at constant volume conditions. But controlling the combustion is very difficult to do, so this Wave Rotor engine would likely only operate reliably over a very narrow range of speeds and loads. Not good for an F1 engine candidate.

As for the sound it would make, the exhaust noise from detonation combustion engines is tremendously loud. Turbine engine companies have been experimenting with Pulse Detonation Engine (PDE) combustors for several years. The PDE test rigs make such an extreme amount of noise that special precautions must be take to protect the test personnel.



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#4 Murl

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:37

Cheers for that Slider.

We can call this one a brain fart instead of a brain wave... :cat:

The sentiment remains. It was amazing to witness the development during the turbo years, and after. BHP per litre went up and up. Now we have the engine as not really a contributing factor to the race. Shame.





Murl,

That Wave Rotor engine relies on propagation of acoustic waves and detonation type combustion for operation. Detonation combustion is a very efficient and low emissions process since it occurs at constant volume conditions. But controlling the combustion is very difficult to do, so this Wave Rotor engine would likely only operate reliably over a very narrow range of speeds and loads. Not good for an F1 engine candidate.

As for the sound it would make, the exhaust noise from detonation combustion engines is tremendously loud. Turbine engine companies have been experimenting with Pulse Detonation Engine (PDE) combustors for several years. The PDE test rigs make such an extreme amount of noise that special precautions must be take to protect the test personnel.



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#5 24gerrard

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:42

Cheers for that Slider.

We can call this one a brain fart instead of a brain wave... :cat:

The sentiment remains. It was amazing to witness the development during the turbo years, and after. BHP per litre went up and up. Now we have the engine as not really a contributing factor to the race. Shame.



It is a shame and I am certain that most on here would echo your sentiments, even more so those of us who had a direct involvment.
However, the days of the internal combustion engine are numbered and if F1 is to survive it must embrace the new technologies if it is to retain its position at the top of motorsport.

#6 jatwarks

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 16:54

The sentiment remains. It was amazing to witness the development during the turbo years, and after. BHP per litre went up and up. Now we have the engine as not really a contributing factor to the race. Shame.

Since the motor manufacturers took over control of F1 technical regulations they became ultra conservative; none of them want to invest large amounts in innovative technology that ultimately proves to be uncompetitive. That's why engine regulations now demand identical specs, and even performance, from the different engines.

Everyone in F1 has to have their share of financial returns, prize money, or subsides paid to them 'for the good of the series', to justify their place in F1.

Don't expect the manufacturers to invest in new technology unless they are assured that they will receive their share of success.

#7 rory57

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 21:46

Following on from that old saying, competition improves the breed

Trouble is the improvements are defined by the formula. Until there is a really free formula for top level racing, the nature of those improvements will be limited, and if, God forbid, something really improving turns up, it will be banned in order to protect the status quo.
If the F1 competition had allowed improvement, we would be looking back at forty odd years since gas turbines displaced Petrol engines and then who knows what after that.

A real " unlimited" formula anyone? (safety rules and track rules only)

Edited by rory57, 23 December 2011 - 21:47.


#8 24gerrard

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 22:52

Safety rules and track rules?
That is not an unlimited formula then.