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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB


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#1251 GSiebert

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 14:58

There's a rumor in an italien newspaper (il Resto del Carlino) saying that Rossi could quit Ducati before the end of the season to setup his own team for 2013, running a Coca Cola-backed Yamaha M1. :lol:

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#1252 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 15:05

There's a rumor in an italien newspaper (il Resto del Carlino) saying that Rossi could quit Ducati before the end of the season to setup his own team for 2013, running a Coca Cola-backed Yamaha M1. :lol:


Maybe they're trying to put ideas in his head. ;)

Ducati need to sign up Fenati and train him up from birth as the new Stoner. I'm only half-joking!

Edited by Risil, 11 April 2012 - 15:06.


#1253 SteF1an

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 15:06

There's a rumor in an italien newspaper (il Resto del Carlino) saying that Rossi could quit Ducati before the end of the season to setup his own team for 2013, running a Coca Cola-backed Yamaha M1. :lol:

http://www.twowheels...form-a-new-team

#1254 pRy

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 15:08

I get from the comments in the latest AS news item that he is saying to Ducati "give me a bike capable of winning by the end of this season otherwise I walk". Can't really blame the guy, he wants to win. I'd say the chances of him racing next year for Ducati are slim right now.

#1255 slideways

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 15:40

They obviously have problems but it's sad to hear Rossi brush off Stoner's success with them like that, and then demand they basically give him a Jap clone when he supposedly went there for a challenge.

#1256 ViMaMo

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 15:41

Then why not compare the lap times instead of mentioning the gap only? Compare the lap times from previous years vs 2012 times. I want to do it, but I'm browsing on cellphone.


Want to take a fair bit of comfort by that random fast lap? Fastest laps dont win the race.

Edited by ViMaMo, 11 April 2012 - 15:56.


#1257 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 15:46

They obviously have problems but it's sad to hear Rossi brush off Stoner's success with them like that, and then demand they basically give him a Jap clone when he supposedly went there for a challenge.


Trying to explain how Stoner succeeded where everyone else failed isn't "brushing off his success" at all. Rossi himself is currently proof that no amount of talent will make you infallible. If we get blinded with the cult of success we don't learn anything.

#1258 Rob

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 16:04

They obviously have problems but it's sad to hear Rossi brush off Stoner's success with them like that, and then demand they basically give him a Jap clone when he supposedly went there for a challenge.


He went there because his hand was forced. Yamaha practically put all their eggs in the Lorenzo basket, as they were looking towards the future. I don't think even Rossi himself could have predicted how badly he would adapt to the Ducati.

I suspect next year Rossi will have his own team on the grid, maybe with a second bike for Iannone as well.



#1259 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 16:14

They obviously have problems but it's sad to hear Rossi brush off Stoner's success with them like that, and then demand they basically give him a Jap clone when he supposedly went there for a challenge.

He wanted a challenge, but I'm sure he also expected progress of some sort. I mean, you can point at Stoner and say everything is fine at Ducati, its only the people on the bike, but I'd say there's a problem when there's only one person in the entire world who can ride it. There's obviously more to it than just the people on the bike and if Ducati cant do anything about it, then I wouldn't blame Rossi one bit for wanting to leave.

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#1260 Atreiu

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 16:24

They obviously have problems but it's sad to hear Rossi brush off Stoner's success with them like that, and then demand they basically give him a Jap clone when he supposedly went there for a challenge.



Stoner's success probably hurts him much more than Lorenzo sailing on with Yamaha.
His comments on how Stoner was lucky to have been younger and more adaptable are ridiculous. All sorts of riders from all ages have been over Ducatis since 2007 and the results speak for themselves. And shyould Rossi be lucky to have JB on his side or is his age a disadvantage as well?

#1261 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 16:30

Where did Rossi call Stoner lucky? It's indisputable that Stoner's opportunity in 2007 was different from Rossi's in 2011.

Edited by Risil, 11 April 2012 - 16:31.


#1262 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 16:43

I'm not sure what Stoner has to do with Rossi's situation. Has Stoner ridden the current Ducati? Did he ride last year's?

#1263 Ellios

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 17:10

lets be honest, Stoner is the only person to be able to control the Ducati, no one else has come close, who was the last non-stoner rider to win on a Ducati? Loris Capirossi, Japan 2007?

not jumping on the Rossi bashing train, I have my own thoughts on that subject I'll post later on

#1264 Hippo

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 18:15

Stoner could ride Ducati's well until he left. One might assume he could ride the current one too. Yet, to be honest - that's nothing but an assumption. Also there's no point speculating about it. Stoner will never ride this Duc. So it doesn't make any difference.

#1265 SeanValen

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 18:58

I want to see Rossi racing for wins again and compete against Stoner. Ducati look like they don't have deas to how to improve and just hoping things will click and this amount of shock unimprovement is unnacceptable. I don't wanna see Rossi for 5th or 6h place as much as I don't wanna see Kimi and Schumacher M not compeite for wins this year, I want the big names to compete for top honours.

Kimi's renault looks fast and Schumacher's mercedes team have improved, imagine if Kimi or Michael came out with the stuff Rossi has said about his engineering people, I think it'll make fans disappointed, you just don't expect things to get woser when you think these people are capable of winning, and you want a good season with best drivers competiting for wins.

Whatever is happening it's a disappointing start to the motogp season.

Edited by SeanValen, 11 April 2012 - 19:02.


#1266 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 19:02

If Alonso doesn't win the title this year it is going to look pretty disappointing next to Kimi's World Championship.

#1267 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 19:16

They obviously have problems but it's sad to hear Rossi brush off Stoner's success with them like that, and then demand they basically give him a Jap clone when he supposedly went there for a challenge.

And why not?.nobody has win on the Ducati besides loris. Ducati have changed everything but the engine. They won't change that ever. What if Casey never left lrc? Ducati might have never won a race besides a rain race.

#1268 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 19:40

Capirossi also got a few podiums to go with his wins from 2003-2006. Including a second to Casey (in the dry) at Phillip Island. It wasn't a bad performance at all. The GP7 must've been a step away from the 990 iteration, but it must've been a small one because it didn't suddenly baffle Loris. So presumably 1) the Ducati became a Melandri-destroyer incrementally, and Capirossi dealt with it better because he was there at every step, or 2) the Ducati became a Melandri-destroyer under Stoner's watch as lead rider.

Former world champions from Australia like Gardner and Doohan also had a reputation for "riding the unrideable". Not sure what that proves, but it's an interesting coincidence. :)

#1269 chunder27

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 19:43

People seem to forget Troy Bayliss in all this, he came back to GP with Marinelli and Tardozzi as a present for winning the WSB crown, was finally allowed to set the bike up the way HE wanted and smoked the field!

Was quite funny really as he was told he was not required two years before, typical Bayliss really to stick a pair up at Domenicali Prezziosi et al.

Not sure abouw Rossi, I feel given the bike he would be right there again, but his image is tarnished by not being able to sort this bike out. Maybe the Yamaha was not that bad after all in 2003 eh? Biaggi was not that bad on it remember and in 03 the main riders were Checa and Barros who was riding with a broken knee all year! Hardly the best way to prepare.



#1270 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 19:45

Is it Rossi who's lost his magic or is it Burgess, Ducati themselves even or a combination of all 3?

Whatever, the "If we had that issue with Valentino it'd be fixed in 80 seconds," comment from JB in October 2010 didn't do them (JB & VR) any favours, kind of set the bar a tad too high really.

Edited by bigarthurisgod, 11 April 2012 - 19:46.


#1271 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 19:55

People seem to forget Troy Bayliss in all this, he came back to GP with Marinelli and Tardozzi as a present for winning the WSB crown, was finally allowed to set the bike up the way HE wanted and smoked the field!

Was quite funny really as he was told he was not required two years before, typical Bayliss really to stick a pair up at Domenicali Prezziosi et al.


Indeed. Haven't heard much criticism of Ducati's technical team yet, much of the story (justifiably) seems to be about the little, charismatic team from Bologna looking for the "unfair advantage" over the big Japanese conglomerates. Wonder if there's a communication issue (well, more than the usual, healthy amount :cool: ) between Burgess and the factory.

#1272 Atreiu

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 20:02

lol http://www.youtube.c...p;v=ly4m-o9wUIg

#1273 EvanRainer

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 20:39

Obviously Stoner was great on the Ducati but he wouldn't have done jack shit on the 2010 bike.

People seem to forget that Hayden went from constant hovering just off the podium in 2010 to a bloody back marker in 2011. So no, the difference between 2010 and 2011 was not just Stoner leaving.

Edited by EvanRainer, 11 April 2012 - 20:39.


#1274 Zippel

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:05

Obviously Stoner was great on the Ducati but he wouldn't have done jack shit on the 2010 bike.

People seem to forget that Hayden went from constant hovering just off the podium in 2010 to a bloody back marker in 2011. So no, the difference between 2010 and 2011 was not just Stoner leaving.


No way. Hayden was an 8th placed finish away from beating Rossi in the points last year and actually did better than his 2009 year, when Stoner was still winning races.

I'm amazed there are still people who still can't see Stoner was the difference. You may have had a case a couple of years ago but now its beyond reasonable doubt.

Edited by Zippel, 11 April 2012 - 23:06.


#1275 marchi-91

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:07

Where did Rossi call Stoner lucky? It's indisputable that Stoner's opportunity in 2007 was different from Rossi's in 2011.


That Ducatti had no right to win post 2008 and Stoner made it win races.

Perhaps Rossi should pull the wads of cash out of his mouth and take a look at himself and the affect his constant bitching and moaning has on team morale.

If I was Duc, i'd be on the verge of sacking him. Not only is he quite clearly past it, but you're paying him a fair amount to slag off the brand.

He must consider himself lucky though, especially with his last two titles. If Stoner and Ducatti had been capable of matching the Honda and Yamaha's, he'd have wiped the floor with Rossi and CO.

#1276 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:18

Calm down! The Felipe Massa thread is over there!

#1277 marchi-91

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:25

Calm down! The Felipe Massa thread is over there!


Sorry but I don't see how any manufacturer should be happy about somebody constantly pissing and moaning about how inferior their product is, despite performing fairly average as well.

I do like the fact that Rossi has completely embarrassed himself.

#1278 Risil

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 23:38

It's in your head. Rossi stating that he finds the bike unrideable has been clear to see for a long time. What's changed is that Rossi's gone to the press this time: I'm sure every complaint he's made there, he's made dozens of times in private to all sorts of people in the organisation. Evidently he feels he's got more to gain in using his status as "It can't be the rider's fault, do you know who I am?" nine-time world champion Valentino Rossi to lever the team into more radical or costly action. It's not something Nicky Hayden would do (he's been there with Honda) but people like Hayden are very very rare. It could backfire but Team Rossi has made some shrewd moves in the past.

The worst case scenario is that Rossi gets no help and leaves the team with little to show for two years of his career. He gets on a factory-supported satellite team and runs a CRT for Iannone. Ducati's problems are what they had before, Rossi's rep is no more damaged that Lawson's and Mamola's were from riding the Cagiva. At least he tried it.

It's difficult to see the situation being significantly improved this season, and more difficult still to see Rossi staying longer than this season without clear improvement. But it's not impossible to consider that the problem might lie with the team's technical organisation (or its resources, but this would be insurmountable). The works team has employed a lot of World Champions and very few have had success.

Rossi's a long way from Biaggi-ing his relationship with Ducati, put it that way. ;)

Edited by Risil, 12 April 2012 - 01:18.


#1279 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:06

Ducati must be extremely pissed off about the insane about of red and yellow overpriced merchandise that it's selling. Livid I tell you.

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#1280 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:19

Italian media must be the hell for any Italian celebrity. I only hope Rossi and Ducati find success and win the championship, if not part ways in an amicable manner. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, i dont know why Rossi should not have one? And everyone have their own champions in their minds, cant change that. Rossi has nothing else to prove.

#1281 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:31

Sorry but I don't see how any manufacturer should be happy about somebody constantly pissing and moaning about how inferior their product is, despite performing fairly average as well.

I do like the fact that Rossi has completely embarrassed himself.

So they should get rid of Rossi and then put.......who, on the bike exactly? Unless they've cloned Casey Stoner, I'd say it would do them absolutely no good at all.

Rossi isn't embarrassing himself, Ducati are embarrassing themselves for not being able to produce a good bike.

#1282 woftam

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:48

It's not like they haven't tried to get him comfortable on the bike.
How many different versions of frames has he had in a little over a year? It's not like Ducati could afford it either, but they did it.
No other rider (Stoner included) got anywhere near the support Vale has had in his first year from Bologna.
They have bent over backwards. Admittedly it hasn't worked out, but it isn't through lack of effort.
Ducati would have just as much right to be dismayed with his performance as he has with them. It hasn't worked out, shit happens.

Re - 2013 - Would Yamaha even allow another Satellite Yamaha to race with Vale on it? I don't think Lorenzo or Yamaha will let it happen.

#1283 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:10

Any rumors of Ducati parting ways with the other former world champion that they hired?

#1284 goldenboy

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:19

lol http://www.youtube.c...p;v=ly4m-o9wUIg

1min35: But we have Hayden in 5th and Barbera in 8th! :rotfl:

#1285 BMW4life

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:27

For 2007 it did. You remember 2008? Looked like Stoner could still win the title. Then Rossi at Laguna happened. Then all of the sudden Casey couldn't stay on the bike for a couple rounds, because Rossi had gotten into his head. Rossi was still very much alive after Casey went to Ducati.


Never denied that Rossi was alive or valid. My response to the original post was because he suggested that Rossi was dominating until he got injured, and that it was his injury which ended his domination.

As for Casey not staying on the bike... I think that's more to do with the bike, than Rossi being in his head. Rossi found out since last year, just why Casey crashed so much on that bike. If only he could figure out how Casey managed to win so much on it!

As I said earlier, the riders and moto gp insiders know the deal regarding stoner (Pedrosa's alien status has been firmly grounded by stoner's brilliance). The press is slowly beginning to realize the errors of their ways! :kiss:

Unfortunately, not much you can do with fanboys (not referring to you here, btw).

#1286 motorhead

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:52

Rossi isn't embarrassing himself, Ducati are embarrassing themselves for not being able to produce a good bike.


This could be easily turned to a Ferrari 2008 thread  ;) . Hayden getting the most of the bike while Rossi is struggling even if all expected Rossi to beat Hayden easily. Of course this time around it is the team not a driver...

#1287 BMW4life

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:53

Rossis late braking style needs a good front end. If he gets that hell dominate anyone, including Stoner and Lorenzo.

Lets also not forget tnat Yamaha wasnt doing anything special pre-Rossi, despite their big money riders like Biaggi. Rossis team gave Yamaha a nose for winning, wich is what gives Lorenzo these days a superior cornering bike.

Ducati is much smaller with all the changes perhaps its not easy to instantly build a bike capable of fighting that superb Honda and Yamaha.


Ducati has more money now than they did when stoner was there. I wouldn't be surprised if they've spent, in the year and a half that Rossi's been there, 3/4 of the money they spent during stoner's 4 year stint, especially when you consider Rossi's ridiculous salary.

The Yamaha handles so well because of its inherent design. You can read up on the design direction yamaha took for the m1 on Wikipedia.

As for Biaggi, Rossi was on a Honda, which was the class of the field at the time. Now. the fact that the biggest name at the time was Biaggi (who has one WSBK Championship to his name) reinforces the notion that Rossi's competition was below par compared to the competition he faces today. No question about that. It also lends support to my argument that Rossi's domination ended when Stoner moved to Ducati and Lorenzo joined him and immediately started beating him on the same bike... as a rookie. We really shouldn't ignore the significance of that achievement.

IF you browse www.mottomatters.com, you will see that Honda's Moto GP Boss basically stated recently that Honda has NEVER built an excellent handling chassis. That's also inherent to the design of the bike. They've been runnign V4's or V5's since the early 80's I think, 65 degrees between the banks (I think).

#1288 BMW4life

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:02

So they should get rid of Rossi and then put.......who, on the bike exactly? Unless they've cloned Casey Stoner, I'd say it would do them absolutely no good at all.

Rossi isn't embarrassing himself, Ducati are embarrassing themselves for not being able to produce a good bike.


Would I be way off base if I said that Ducati hasn't produced a good bike since 2007 (or 2008 if you want to argue)?

#1289 Andy35

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:05

It's interesting that the WSB Ducati turns on a sixpence whilst the MotoGp bike understeers, both I believe use 90 degree engines. Perhaps Ducati should follow Aprilia and have a "works" CRT bike for Rossi ? :D

I do hope the doctor gets sorted as I am a fan. I wish he would pipe down for the moment and keep his thoughts inhouse though. He's competing with Group Lotus for column inches at the moment :(

Rossi obviously went to Ducati to win on 3 different bikes, even though he knew the bike was tough. Seems to have backfired though. I wonder what would have happened if he instead had offered his services to Suzuki as #1 rider? I think they would have stayed in MotoGP then. The 800cc Suzuki certainly, at the end, handled really well and was more like a Spitfire than the Ducati B29 bomber at turning. I am sure Rossi would have got on well with it, no doubt Suzuki could find more horsepower too if needed. Of course Suzuki are not Italian though.

Fingers crossed for Joan, keep fighting!

Andy



#1290 DS27

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:02

I'd rather Rossi was fighting at the front, but he's lying in the bed he made. Can't see why on earth Honda or Yamaha would be interested in running him in a factory supported team - it would be disruptive.

Rossi's had his time - I'm more interested where Ducati go from here. Who do they put on the factory bike? Ianone, Barbera, Redding (wishful thinking)

#1291 sopa

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:32

So they should get rid of Rossi and then put.......who, on the bike exactly?


Barbera. He seems one of only few guys, who can ride that bike and has been doing very well in satellite teams.

#1292 Disgrace

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:33

He has come on leaps and bounds since his 250cc days when he was a bit of a hot-head.

#1293 piszkosfred

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:35

Is it Rossi who's lost his magic or is it Burgess, Ducati themselves even or a combination of all 3?

Whatever, the "If we had that issue with Valentino it'd be fixed in 80 seconds," comment from JB in October 2010 didn't do them (JB & VR) any favours, kind of set the bar a tad too high really.


You know, I'm fed up with this fixing "bullshit" quote. JB only said that for the heavy rear pumping the Pramac Ducs experienced in 2010. It wasn't meant for the whole bike.

#1294 HoldenRT

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:12

I feel for Rossi..

..but it's a universal motor racing thing. You can have one driver/rider with more talent or more success, being with a car/bike that he doesn't feel comfortable with and he will seem average.. like Schumi in 2005, and then he is said to be losing it. Maybe that's a bad example since the car/tyres were struggling, but there have been many examples like Button with Honda for example, and now doing well against Hamilton the longer he's been in the team. Back to Schumi.. with the media saying he's getting too old, or to never have been that good in the first place. Just in the right place at the right time.

Or you can have someone who isn't thought of highly, or doesn't have the track record or success having a bike/car in their sweet spot, and they can have confidence and push and enjoy every lap they drive/ride and all of the sudden they seem like a champion. And then they have the success and the media jumps onboard and all of the sudden the perception changes and they are a "star" or "one of the greats".

The truth is they are all human with different strengths and weaknesses in different areas. And they all perform at their best when comfortable and at one with their machinery. And that the difference between them all (when they are comfortable) is very small. This is certainly true in F1, less true in MotoGP where it seems the "aliens" are able to shine more.. but it's also a universal motor racing thing.

And then you have people saying "but being adaptable is a part of being a driver/rider too".. yes, and then you can analyse and discuss that one to death as well.

Being at the right team at the right time is everything. As is having the team support you and your direction, to enable you to feel comfortable. And then there is luck and fortunate circumstances like others struggling in the same season, where you are strong. Like Hayden or Button's Brawn championship.

IMO Rossi's tailed off a bit in the last few seasons, but still very very very good. He's just in a bad situation at the moment, with sort of a nightmare set of bike characteristics for his preferences. Put him on a bike that he likes and he'd be as good as ever, or as good as he was at Yamaha the last few seasons. But you could say the same thing about the lesser riders who've never had their chance.

The difference with Rossi is, he HAS had his chance, he has a great track record so the pressure is on and the expectations are high = nightmare situation. Tough situation for him for sure.

#1295 piszkosfred

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:31

Capirossi also got a few podiums to go with his wins from 2003-2006. Including a second to Casey (in the dry) at Phillip Island. It wasn't a bad performance at all. The GP7 must've been a step away from the 990 iteration, but it must've been a small one because it didn't suddenly baffle Loris. So presumably 1) the Ducati became a Melandri-destroyer incrementally, and Capirossi dealt with it better because he was there at every step, or 2) the Ducati became a Melandri-destroyer under Stoner's watch as lead rider.

Former world champions from Australia like Gardner and Doohan also had a reputation for "riding the unrideable". Not sure what that proves, but it's an interesting coincidence. :)


Capirossi may have won one race in 2007, but it was a wet race. And I remember quite good he was constantly complaining about the GP7. With the GP6 he was a championship contender (without the Barcelona crash and injury he may have won the WC that year). Ducati made several changes but nothing worked for him. So he went to Suzuki.

People bitching like Rossi is the only one who has problems, yet the fastest Duc is half a minute behind. Hayden is 6th, but that would be a 9th last year (put Spies, a Suzuki and the 3rd HRC bike ahead of him). Still, I don't think the Ducati-Rossi combination will work out, but who to put on the bike? The Aliens will probably stay where they are, rookies can't take factory rides (thinking about Marquez). I can't see anybody on the earth who could win on that bike. Without a competitive rider there's no point to continue for Ducati.

#1296 THE "driverider"

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:31

I'd rather Rossi was fighting at the front, but he's lying in the bed he made. Can't see why on earth Honda or Yamaha would be interested in running him in a factory supported team - it would be disruptive.

Rossi's had his time - I'm more interested where Ducati go from here. Who do they put on the factory bike? Ianone, Barbera, Redding (wishful thinking)

Kallio?

#1297 Disgrace

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:33

Once bitten...

#1298 Rob

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:35

Kallio?


As much as I like Mika Kallio, he wouldn't be able to tame the Ducati. Nor would he want to get on one.

Edited by Rob, 12 April 2012 - 09:36.


#1299 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:52

It's interesting that the WSB Ducati turns on a sixpence whilst the MotoGp bike understeers, both I believe use 90 degree engines.


Heh, this. I've always been a bit dissapointed in this. I became a fan of Ducati back in the 90s watching them in SBK. One of the main characteristics of the Ducatis has been and still is, how good they handle and how nimble they are. And they were always the most slim and beautiful as well.

On the other hand, the GP bike has from the get go been nothing like what characterizes the superbikes. All around poor handling and looks like crap. (irrelevant but in MotoGP Honda has consistently been the better after the 500cc days IMO). Forgetting their obsession with the L for a second, it's curious how at least some of their design philosophy can't seem to be transferring over.


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#1300 Zippel

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:16

This could be easily turned to a Ferrari 2008 thread ;) . Hayden getting the most of the bike while Rossi is struggling even if all expected Rossi to beat Hayden easily. Of course this time around it is the team not a driver...


And what was Rossi's opinion of Raikkonen during his stint at Ferrari?  ;)

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=116194

But its early days yet. Hayden had the upper hand early 2010 as well.

Edited by Zippel, 12 April 2012 - 10:29.