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2012 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSP, AMA, BSB


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#2301 Ellios

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 07:53

Rossi said in his press conference he intended to stay in MotoGP for another two years, you'd think he'll want a contract to back up that statement - if there is no one bigger in the sport than Rossi, and no team bigger than Honda then as a betting person he's got to be installed as favourite to take Stoners seat again

Potentially Pedrosa could loose his seat to Márquez after the youngster does his rookie year?

or how about Maverick Viñales skipping Moto2 and going straight into MotoGP - lol ok perhaps not..

it's fun to debate it though.... should write down an accumulator and get down the bookies!

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#2302 goldenboy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:03

Such a shame, so many more championships still in him.

he is the GOAT imo.

he is the fastest currently and arguably greatest in the last few years but not of all time.

I have absolutely loved following stoner for a long while now, it really got me into motorcycle racing. However pair him in a team with lorenzo and who knows who would be fastest. A real shame to not see stoner vs lorenzo or rossi on equal machinery.

#2303 goldenboy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:27

karel is a rider who interests me, would be good to see him do well out of any rider changes next year. Not saying he deserves it more or not over any of the other guys, just that he interests me more for some reason.

#2304 chunder27

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:18

You cant be the GOAT unless you have won championships in every class in my opinion!

At least these days you cant, as nowadays that is THE way you progress.

I dont rank many of the riders above the Lawson,Schwantz,Rainey era. But Rossi and Stoner are definately up there, as they seem to be able to ride around problems and issues.

Jorge is the most consistent, the most assured and clean, but you get the impression he has the same issues as Sarron,Cadalora and Biaggi, if it aint quite right he cant push past and win still?

I have no beef with Stoner, he has explained everything perfectly in my view and can retire happy in the knowledge he has won ttles on two maybe three different bikes, and is only bettered in the current generation by perhaps Rossi in terms of achievements as he has won titles in all classes and dominated all classes, Stoner didnt do a lot in 125, and was quick in 250 but often crashed and was beaten by pedrosa all the time on a slower Honda

#2305 SteF1an

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:20

Ouch!!!

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#2306 HPT

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:52

A previous poster planted an image of MGP racing of faceless riders - like "The Stig" on Top Gear. Not bad really, except we have to have personality involvement to SOME degree. It's that degree which varies wildly from one fan to another.

Or does it? Maybe it's the style of personality projection that hits people different ways. For me the Rossi and Lorenzo theatrics were just so incredibly gay, juvenile, and appeared disrespectful to all the traditions, officials and fellow competitors as it overshadowed the unwinding slow down and arrival in pitlane, walk to the podium ceremony etc. To others. I guess it brought colour and personality, drama or whatever to the show. I'm pleased to see that spectacle gone - good riddance!

I have always liked (apart from the great racing) riders who are professional and sporting, generous in their praise of their opponents. And apart from the uncharismatic Pedrosa who is always glum, all the top riders largely fulfill those attributes. And that includes Stoner and Rossi. I have seen no less criticism of bike and package from Rossi than I have with Stoner. I want to know what they honestly think was the situation for them. If that grates with people then I suspect it's because they have offered an "excuse" for not being able to defeat that fan's favourite rider.

I think it's glaringly obvious what Stoner had to wrestle with at the red team now, so the "excuses" he made were very real. The illusion that the Ducati was a great MotoGP bike have been well swept away now that Rossi is fighting with his teammate Hayden to get the bike in the top 10.

All that aside, it seems sad that a guy at the peak of his powers and with the world at his feet should grow disenchanted with the sport. The parallels with Kimi in F1 are there at surface level so maybe there is hope of him making a comeback, or more likely, being persuaded by HRC to reconsider. That not being the case I would be happy that at least he wasn't going the other way like Rossi and becoming a shadow of his former self as Vale most definitely is. Embarassing in fact.

Finally, I find sad that race fans should post comments like "good riddance". I wish Rossi would retire out of respect to a pretty stellar career which he is now eroding in mediocrity, much like Michael Schumacher is doing. If you wish a top flight rider who is at the pinnacle to retire then IMO you are no true race fan. We need more, not less, riders on the top step and there are currently really only two.


+1

Excellent post.


#2307 FPV GTHO

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:17

During FP2 they talked about it on the Eurosport commentary, something about how Dorna waved it once before for Bautista and Suzuki because Suzuki were threatening to quit. Though they quit anyway and this really pissed off Dorna, and apparently someone from Dorna has said they want wave this rule again. Got no sources for this other then hearing what Ryder and Moody were talking about but they did sound pretty certain that Marquez wont be on a factory Honda next year. On top of that they also claimed Nakamoto has said they wont have two Spanish riders.


Suzuki didnt have a 2nd team to put him with, thats why it was waved. I thought as well the rule was brought in after Lorenzo's string of crashes in his debut year.

#2308 Mackey

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:41

I thought as well the rule was brought in after Lorenzo's string of crashes in his debut year.


No. It was brought to give the satellite teams the chance of better sponsorship.

#2309 Option1

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:56

Interview with Carmelo Ezpeleta, boss of Dorna.
http://plus.autospor...e-in-his-hands/



I personally think the rule should stay, it does help the independant teams get better rider and equipment, which helps them get better sponsors. Look at Tech3 having Spies got them loads more publicity, and now they've got a huge sponsor.

What this means for Honda though, is that they need a rider on a one year contract, as Marquez will arrive in 2014, and I can't see them dumping Dani.

Cheers Youichi, thanks for that. :up:

Neil

#2310 DrProzac

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:18

Red Flag? I wonder why. (NW200)

Edited by DrProzac, 19 May 2012 - 12:20.


#2311 piszkosfred

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:30

There was a talk in preseason that if the factories agree on the rules Dorna wants for next year and beyond, the rookie rule will be scraped. So Carm could change his mind any time.

#2312 milestone 11

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 14:26

Great win for Michael Rutter from the second wave. :up:

#2313 BMW4life

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 15:33

For me the Rossi and Lorenzo theatrics were just so incredibly gay, juvenile, and appeared disrespectful to all the traditions, officials and fellow competitors as it overshadowed the unwinding slow down and arrival in pitlane, walk to the podium ceremony etc.
.
.
.
.
I wish Rossi would retire out of respect to a pretty stellar career which he is now eroding in mediocrity, much like Michael Schumacher is doing. If you wish a top flight rider who is at the pinnacle to retire then IMO you are no true race fan. We need more, not less, riders on the top step and there are currently really only two.


1) Just thought I'd point out that your use of the word gay is also disrespectful.

2) Rossi retiring now would be the worst thing he could do. I would try to get stoner's seat or Lorenzo's if he moves to Honda. He can't ride the Duc, and with his direction, the team is the worst it has ever been. If that didn't work out, I'd soldier on for one more year because giving up now would make him look like a quitter. He should have done it at the end of 2010, by which point Lorenzo had already shown him up. It was clear he was no longer head and shoulders above everybody. I believe that to be one of the main reasons Schumacher retired. He said it many times that when he felt he would struggle to beat the young'ens he'd retire. He retired Coming back at his ripe old age does nothing to diminish his prior accomplishments. Rossi, on the other hand... :confused: ?

#2314 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 15:40

There was a talk in preseason that if the factories agree on the rules Dorna wants for next year and beyond, the rookie rule will be scraped. So Carm could change his mind any time.

The rookie rule wont be scrapped the factories used it as a bargaining tool with Dorna and the FIM when they pushed the rev limits out to 2014.

#2315 Risil

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 16:35

The rookie rule wont be scrapped the factories used it as a bargaining tool with Dorna and the FIM when they pushed the rev limits out to 2014.


Something to think about with the "Rookie Rule", from Motomatters.com:

The other major fly in the ointment is one Marc Marquez, regarded by one and all as a future alien. That Marquez will be moving up to MotoGP in 2013 is certain, but the rookie rule - which is certain to stay, after Carmelo Ezpeleta postponed the rev limits for an extra year to satisfy the factories, in exchange for keeping the rookie rule - prevents Marquez from going to a factory team. But the Spaniard is not an easy fit in a satellite team either, as it will not just be him moving up, but his entire Monlau Competicion team. Satellite teams such as Tech 3, Gresini or LCR are assembled over many years, with personnel largely remaining the same from year to year. If Marquez goes to a satellite team, they would have to sack a bunch of people to make way for the group surrounding Marquez, knowing that it would be just for a single season as the Spaniard is a shoo in for a factory ride in 2014, and will be taking all of his team with him again when he leaves.

Speaking with someone close to Marquez at Estoril, I learned that their preference is for a separate team for Marquez, but that would cause a number of problems. If the number of prototype bikes is limited by regulation to two in the factory team and two in satellite teams, then one bike would have to be taken from an existing team. However, if such a rule is not adopted, then Marquez, Repsol and Monlau will simply be provided with a factory-spec machine (just as Simoncelli had at Gresini) and the team will run itself.


The rule will either be ignored, or it'll hurt the teams it was written to help.

#2316 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 18:20

Red Flag? I wonder why. (NW200)


http://www.bikesport...amp;newsid=7050

:(

#2317 Dispenser89

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 18:23

:(

#2318 Risil

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 18:57

Damn. :( Rest in peace, Mr Buckley.

Whenever there's a red flag in road racing and the live broadcasters don't say much about it, you know there's bad news.

Edited by Risil, 19 May 2012 - 18:57.


#2319 Jambo

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 19:22

Sad end to a great days racing.

Seeley seems to have lost himself some fans as well.

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#2320 Hippo

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 19:26

:(

#2321 ehagar

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:27

Such a shame, so many more championships still in him.

he is the GOAT imo.


Disagree. To be the GOAT requires longevity. Riders of his ilk of popped up before. To me, the most obvious compariable rider would be Freddie Spencer. Domination for a short period of time and then gone.

However... I think there is a case to be made for him being the greatest 800cc era... doesn't he have the most wins in that class?


#2322 Hippo

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:33

Who cares about an attribute as "GOAT". That's so artificial, because you can't compare riders of different eras. If Stoner wins 2012 he will quit as the dominating rider of HIS time (2006 - 2012). Anything else is merely interpretation.

#2323 Ellios

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:41

Who cares about an attribute as "GOAT". That's so artificial, because you can't compare riders of different eras. If Stoner wins 2012 he will quit as the dominating rider of HIS time (2006 - 2012). Anything else is merely interpretation.


seems about right to me with a footnote that says he was the only rider to tame a pretty wild Desmosedici, I think for me that is his standout success achievement, if he is true to his word and retires in my mind Stoner will always be wearing red on a Ducati

Edited by Ellios, 19 May 2012 - 20:51.


#2324 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 21:26

Loris Capirossi missed out on a championship by 23 points in 2006.

#2325 EvanRainer

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 21:50

i don't know about greatest of all time...maybe fastest of all time? the fact that rossi can't get anywhere on the ducati and stoner won on it has pretty much cemented his reputation no matter what else he does

he's a faster rider than rossi is and probably ever was


I really wish people would stop repeating this crap. Yes, Stoner would probably have been faster than Rossi on the 2011 bike but you are nuts if you think he would have won on it. The Ducati hasn't been the same competitive from 2007 till now.

Why do people keep conveniently forgetting the fact that the one constant, Hayden, went from getting 4th positions in 2010 to almost a backmarker in 2011?

I'm neither a Rossi nor a Stoner fan, I am more of a Ducati fan. Don't freaking tell me Stoner would be "winning" on the GP11. He certainly would be better on it than Rossi was, but he wouldn't even be sniffing the podium let alone wins.

#2326 ehagar

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 23:07

Who cares about an attribute as "GOAT". That's so artificial, because you can't compare riders of different eras. If Stoner wins 2012 he will quit as the dominating rider of HIS time (2006 - 2012). Anything else is merely interpretation.


Of course it is... but it never stops the comparisons and lists.

#2327 Option1

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 23:30

RIP Mark Buckley. :(

Neil

#2328 Zippel

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 23:43


Loris Capirossi missed out on a championship by 23 points in 2006.


And considering where he was in 2007 it goes to show what an amazing year Stoner could have had on a 2006 Ducati.

I really wish people would stop repeating this crap. Yes, Stoner would probably have been faster than Rossi on the 2011 bike but you are nuts if you think he would have won on it. The Ducati hasn't been the same competitive from 2007 till now.

Why do people keep conveniently forgetting the fact that the one constant, Hayden, went from getting 4th positions in 2010 to almost a backmarker in 2011?


Hayden did better in 2011 than he did in 2009, when Stoner was still winning races. Also Hayden almost beat Rossi's point score last year when he was no where near Stoner's as teammates.

#2329 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 23:57

Or Hayden has simply come to understand how to ride it after a few years of riding it. Let's give the guy some credit.

Hayden will be close to Rossi again this year as there's only 1 point separating each position from 5th-15th.

#2330 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 00:15

You cant be the GOAT unless you have won championships in every class in my opinion!

At least these days you cant, as nowadays that is THE way you progress.

I dont rank many of the riders above the Lawson,Schwantz,Rainey era. But Rossi and Stoner are definately up there, as they seem to be able to ride around problems and issues.

Jorge is the most consistent, the most assured and clean, but you get the impression he has the same issues as Sarron,Cadalora and Biaggi, if it aint quite right he cant push past and win still?

I have no beef with Stoner, he has explained everything perfectly in my view and can retire happy in the knowledge he has won ttles on two maybe three different bikes, and is only bettered in the current generation by perhaps Rossi in terms of achievements as he has won titles in all classes and dominated all classes, Stoner didnt do a lot in 125, and was quick in 250 but often crashed and was beaten by pedrosa all the time on a slower Honda


Winning championships is dependent on your ride. Rossi on the Duke totally shows that.

Obviously someone unfancied like Stoner would never have gotten the right bike in 125's.

#2331 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 00:19

Unusual situation at Tech3: http://www.motomatte...ound_up_a_.html

Reminds me of Jos' sponsors at Minardi directly paying for power steering... except Tech3 is the 3rd best team at the moment.

#2332 Andromeda

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 03:39

I'd like to a see a close neck and neck fight today between Pedrosa and Stoner instead of the usual Stoner and Lorenzo. But something tells me Stoner will take that lead from Pedrosa in the first couple of laps and cruise to an easy victory.

#2333 Andy35

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 07:22

I'm looking forward to Moto2, Iannone is up there for once and of course the best people in the championship are up there. As you know I am not keen on Marquz but he is a speedy devil, as is Luthi.

Andy

#2334 Ellios

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 07:41

chances of rain during the race time period, could rustle up a few surprises

wet warm up for the riders this morning

Crutchlow takes a tumble: http://photos.motogp...w_slideshow.jpg | http://photos.motogp...preview_big.jpg

Edited by Ellios, 20 May 2012 - 08:04.


#2335 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:46

RIP Mark Buckley

#2336 DrProzac

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:07

http://www.bikesport...amp;newsid=7050

:(

RIP :(

#2337 Bleu

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:12

Moto3 having a very wet race just now.

#2338 GSiebert

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:38

Come on Louis stay on your wheels !

#2339 PEW

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:38

Moto3 having a very wet race just now.

Stay on and you'll get a point :eek:

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#2340 Amin

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:55

Great win for the Frenchman!

#2341 Andy35

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:05

Great Moto3 race, was proud to almost be a Frenchman watching the podium :cool:

Moto2 will be mayhem.

The grid girls and other ladies are earning their money today, not only wet but looks very cold, I admire their fortitude wearing such short skirts in such weather from the warmth of my sofa.

Andy

#2342 Hippo

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:07

Rossi wins Le Mans! That must make for a great marketing headline for all his team's sponsors. :lol:

Funny how all the championship contenders managed to crash.

#2343 Ellios

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:30

oh man Alex de Angelis! that was scary to watch!

#2344 Amin

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:37

oh man Alex de Angelis! that was scary to watch!


The other riders did a great job to avoid him.

#2345 bigarthurisgod

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:49

Bit of a tough move by Zarco on the impressive Gino Rea, IMO.

Moto3 was plain crazy, great win for Louis Rossi, but I had to have a giggle at Spalding's "he'll probably get struck by lightning" comment with a few laps to go.

#2346 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:10

So many lucky escapes in the Moto2 race... man!...

#2347 GX390

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:14

Wtf Smith :mad:

#2348 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:17

in the last lap....

#2349 Risil

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:19

If Johann Zarco continues this habit of coming close to getting his first win and then not achieving it it's going to get really tiresome.

Great ride from Luthi. In the Moto3 race you got the feeling that all the leaders were going to crash until one rider could be left alone to dial it back, but Luthi looked in control throughout. Le Mans in the wet looks treacherous. :eek:

Kallio sixth in the championship standings!

Edited by Risil, 20 May 2012 - 11:21.


#2350 Raifosa

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:19

what happened to Simon? crash or run out of fuel?