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#1 Tonka

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:05

Plans have been submitted to the local council for Graham Hill Bend to be altered out of all recognition

http://www.stevespla...brandshatch.pdf



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#2 paulhooft

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:12


Idiots...

Plans have been submitted to the local council for Graham Hill Bend to be altered out of all recognition

http://www.stevespla...brandshatch.pdf



#3 fil2.8

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:14

Idiots...



I agree , why , oh why :confused: :mad:

#4 exclubracer

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:15

Plans have been submitted to the local council for Graham Hill Bend to be altered out of all recognition

http://www.stevespla...brandshatch.pdf

A travesty to one of the UK's most famous and historic circuits!

Question: Why?

Answer: So that BH can then join the rest of the UK sanitized circuits i.e. Mallory Park, Silverstone, Snetterton et al.

:cynic mode on: perhaps it's for better positioning of the cameras for coverage of BSB/WSB diesel events. :cynic mode off:

crap. :mad:

Edited by exclubracer, 12 December 2011 - 18:19.


#5 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:24

Imagine a brake failure to say a fast truck as it hammers down the hill from Druids. The new hairpin means it could cross over to Paddock and collide with other competitors.

#6 Tonka

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:43

According to Palmer, it will benefit the bikes !

http://www.thebikein...h-changes-2012/

Jonathan Palmer, Motorsport Vision boss: “At the moment, Graham Hill is neither fast enough to be a real challenge on a Superbike or slow enough to be a place for a safe overtake. The plans we have submitted will make the track between Druids and it totally straight and the actual corner a contstant radius left.

“It will maximise overtaking on the Indy circuit but that will also affect laptimes on the full GP circuit and we are due to come here three times in 2012. Nothing will move on it until the end of next year, subject to the plans being approved by the local authority.”
Any Comments?




#7 tonyed

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 18:59

Imagine a brake failure to say a fast truck as it hammers down the hill from Druids. The new hairpin means it could cross over to Paddock and collide with other competitors.



Yeh :clap:

Great TV- blazing inferno- death - great for the Sun front page.

If they could build a ramp to take the blazing truck into the crowd at Paddock even better :stoned: :stoned:

It's got my vote could take over from 'Strictly Cum Wa**ing', 'Britains Got Sh*g All Talent', 'Rabbits got Myxomatosis on Ice'. :smoking: :smoking: :smoking: :smoking:

I want to promote 'Death Race 2012' :cool: :cool:

If we could get the Scottish idiot Junky Stewart to build a 100 foot high armco barrier between the down hill plunge and the paddock tunnel and give the punters the oppotunity to vote for the best attempt at clearing it then 'quids in'. :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

I haven't been so excited since Carmelo Expletive sunk his sword into the heart of GP racing when he announced MotoLawnmower to replace the 125s. :kiss:

Had to reduce the emotions to post - What a load of bollocks - I'm so 'xcited



#8 fil2.8

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 19:05

Yeh :clap:

Great TV- blazing inferno- death - great for the Sun front page.

If they could build a ramp to take the blazing truck into the crowd at Paddock even better :stoned: :stoned:

It's got my vote could take over from 'Strictly Cum Wa**ing', 'Britains Got Sh*g All Talent', 'Rabbits got Myxomatosis on Ice'. :smoking: :smoking: :smoking: :smoking:

I want to promote 'Death Race 2012' :cool: :cool:

If we could get the Scottish idiot Junky Stewart to build a 100 foot high armco barrier between the down hill plunge and the paddock tunnel and give the punters the oppotunity to vote for the best attempt at clearing it then 'quids in'. :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

I haven't been so excited since Carmelo Expletive sunk his sword into the heart of GP racing when he announced MotoLawnmower to replace the 125s. :kiss:

Had to reduce the emotions to post - What a load of bollocks - I'm so 'xcited



Perxactly , Tony :clap: :clap: , another well thought out statement .................. :wave:

#9 fastfitter

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 19:19

Ye Gods :eek: :confused: :cry:

#10 exclubracer

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 19:32

Yeh :clap:

Great TV- blazing inferno- death - great for the Sun front page.

If they could build a ramp to take the blazing truck into the crowd at Paddock even better :stoned: :stoned:

It's got my vote could take over from 'Strictly Cum Wa**ing', 'Britains Got Sh*g All Talent', 'Rabbits got Myxomatosis on Ice'. :smoking: :smoking: :smoking: :smoking:

I want to promote 'Death Race 2012' :cool: :cool:

If we could get the Scottish idiot Junky Stewart to build a 100 foot high armco barrier between the down hill plunge and the paddock tunnel and give the punters the oppotunity to vote for the best attempt at clearing it then 'quids in'. :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

I haven't been so excited since Carmelo Expletive sunk his sword into the heart of GP racing when he announced MotoLawnmower to replace the 125s. :kiss:

Had to reduce the emotions to post - What a load of bollocks - I'm so 'xcited


Calm down Tony, you're on the money yet again :kiss:

Although I agree with you 100%, don't be giving yourself a dose of the vapours!! :D

#11 mp025004

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 22:44

That was one of the best left-handers for a sidecar, but sidecars aren't taken seriously anymore.

#12 sterling49

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 22:59



I saw the plans recently, words fail me, just awful, how can this be for real? :confused:

#13 rd500

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:55

corporate madness :evil:

to consider ripping up a track and changing a complete corners for television purposes and to see the spectactle of 2 droneathones passing each other is thick to say the least, its not just the bikes that are going to the dogs they are doing it to the circuits aswell!

the problem is most of the people on the comittee who will have "decided" this most likely have never been on a track or tried to race on one, what they dont realise is you actually change the whole nature of the circuit, not just one or two corners.

look at donington - what a success that was, or mallory park where they added those chicanes for rider safety then dont go there anymore because they made it worse and they claim its unsafe. :confused:

its not enough now to just get extra drive onto a straight or to be quicker mid corner as this wont be picked up on tv by knee down man, it seems the only way you can pass these days is making lunges on the brakes then have an inquiry afterwards about what went wrong when the 5 bike accident occurs.

then you have to either blame the bike or the rider with the teams running about half assaulting each other as the new style of the sport has no morals, then after the 4th big accident happens at the same modified corner you ban the circuit as its too dangerous and shift it to magny cours in france so the tv and the money plush teams can enjoy the holiday after going to assen.

remember the only track they have to get rid of is knockhill and you no longer have the BRITISH championship, what youll have is a money driven, tv enhanced championship where half the rounds will be at one or two tracks and the rest scattered around mainland europe.

you think it cant get worse then it happens, you really cant script all this

#14 dixie

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:37

A bus stop at bottom bend. Speechless. How can we make our thoughts known to the powers that be?

#15 Yendor

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 14:51

Why can't these idiots stick to what they do best, propping up a bar with their buddies, and leave the serious business
to those that know best. This plan really is a disaster waiting to happen and the ruination of one of the last half decent circuits
left in the UK. :mad: :mad: :mad:


#16 fil2.8

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 15:21

Why can't these idiots stick to what they do best, propping up a bar with their buddies, and leave the serious business
to those that know best. This plan really is a disaster waiting to happen and the ruination of one of the last half decent circuits
left in the UK. :mad: :mad: :mad:



How true , and very well said , Rod :up:

#17 picblanc

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 15:43

Its still got to go before the local planners, I presume Kent county council? if enough people write to them email them etc it might get thrown out?
That corner was only altered about 5 years a go, there was nothing wrong with how it was then!! :well:

#18 Tonka

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 17:14

Its still got to go before the local planners, I presume Kent county council? if enough people write to them email them etc it might get thrown out?
That corner was only altered about 5 years a go, there was nothing wrong with how it was then!! :well:



Sevenoaks Council, the application is here

http://pa.sevenoaks....l=LTCRIABK8V000



You can make a comment on the application on that page.


Edited by Tonka, 13 December 2011 - 17:17.


#19 picblanc

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 17:43

Sevenoaks Council, the application is here

http://pa.sevenoaks....l=LTCRIABK8V000



You can make a comment on the application on that page.


Thanks for that, have made my objection known, please do the same guys. :up:

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#20 picblanc

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 17:45

I saw the plans recently, words fail me, just awful, how can this be for real? :confused:


Sterling can you mobilize the troops on the TNF forum, & lets let the planning department know how we feel? :up:

#21 dixie

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 19:19

Would it not be better to let Motorsport Vision know how we feel? :down:

#22 Pink Snail

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 19:42

I will go along with the general concencus of opinion here. With regards to the car racing that I have witnessed at Brands, the bottom bend in it`s current guise the does not need changing or modifying. There has been some great action down there in the last few years. To watch some of the Historic F1 guys and the drivers in the Derek Bell Trophy (F5000) power sliding through there is awesome. If it aint broke - don`t fix it! To sanitise it will kill it off and some drivers will just not turn up.
The modification to the esses at Donington were necessary to meet the MSA safety requirements for run off in front of the hospitality units there. It made the pit straight quicker and Redgate entry slightly faster (catching a few out!) but the changes have been met in general with satisfactory remarks.
If Brands/MSV carry out this plan of change I am sure it will take out the enjoyment of that particular part of the track where the drivers are going at it balls out sometimes 2 or 3 abreast.... oh well! :well:

#23 sterling49

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 20:29

Sterling can you mobilize the troops on the TNF forum, & lets let the planning department know how we feel? :up:



Hi Graham, it is not just 7Oaks Council ( usually pretty strict !) but MSV and Dr Jonathan Palmer...................that has to be a good way to let the company know that competitors and enthusiasts for 40/50 years object to the changes, but then.........maybe we just are not the target audience anymore....................

#24 Russell Burrows

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 21:42

Late this afternoon I contacted English Heritage as it seems reasonable to me that they at least should have a view on this. I made the case that Brands, with its open bends and undulating swervery, was almost the last of the 'old fashioned' circuits now left in Britain. I reminded them too that the circuit is world famous for these characteristics, has been a mecca for motorsport in this guise for much of the last six decades, and millions of people in this country and around the world know and love the place. They may respond positively, I'll let you know.

in the mean time , can I suggest that the planing department are bombarded with communications that emphasise the character of Brands and how the proposal, if approved, will radically alter the character of this now almost lone old style circuit. I think too that the safety issue can be shown to be bogus since there is nothing but a substantial expanse of grass on the outside of Bottom Bend.

Remember, he has to get it past the planners. Please do get emailing/writing.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 13 December 2011 - 22:11.


#25 Leggy

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 22:56

Ello people not been on here for a long while.... :wave:

shocking idea to alter Graham hill bend out of recocnition like that.... I have however heard via other sources that the plug has been pulled on the idea...lets hope so.. :well:

#26 exclubracer

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:14

Plans have been submitted to the local council for Graham Hill Bend to be altered out of all recognition

http://www.stevespla...brandshatch.pdf

Suitable comment submitted!! :up:

#27 rd500

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:55

have added comments also to the site

Edited by rd500, 14 December 2011 - 10:55.


#28 Russell Burrows

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:03

Strange thing is, despite telling us they'll make comments available for public view, the council site says there's been no public comment. Tonka's Brands alert on the car thead can't be accessed and a rumour has started that its all been dropped anyway. A man could become suspicious.

#29 tonyed

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:12

Suitable comment submitted!! :up:


I posted a comment on the Sevenoaks planning website yesterday, but presumably it is nailed on the back of a toilet door down in the Municiple Office Dungeons, 'cause it aint on their website.

Bigger Bastards than Palmer :down:

#30 Ronaldo

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:15

O dear, this is really sad. The history of the place is being totally destroyed.

Sadly this proposed "improvement" will obliterate the sole remaining tarmac from the original pre-Druids layout.


#31 wrighty

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:32

comment duly posted:

Brands Hatch has a worldwide reputation for the sweeping and flowing nature of the circuit layout and, while i'm not one to normally disagree with progress for the sake of worthy evolution, i'm disgusted by the short-sightedness of this design proposal. The nature of the circuit as a whole (especially the short 'Indy' circuit) will be fundamentally altered by this stop-start-stop-start section which is out of character with the rest of the circuit as a whole in any configuration, and sending traffic back toward the Paddock Bend entry on this new section would be positively dangerous.
I have no good points to raise in terms of this proposal aside of more camera time for sponsors at low speed through this section, and if this is deemed 'a good thing' then i fear we have forgotten what 'racing' means in 'motor racing'.


Yours, disgusted of Aycliffe

#32 Tonka

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 14:46

It may be possible to send complaints about this *upgrade* to Palmer himself or at least his company

http://www.motorspor...contact-us.aspx

I don't know if he or any of his companies are on Twitter. I can't find them.



#33 mfd

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:20

Tonka's Brands alert on the car thead can't be accessed and a rumour has started that its all been dropped anyway. A man could become suspicious.

Not much point on RC - better on TNF. Anyone want to start it or...


#34 sterling49

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:25

Not much point on RC - better on TNF. Anyone want to start it or...



Go for it Mike :up:

#35 mfd

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:38

Go for it Mike :up:

Done! If it has been dropped I wonder why the story where Palmer was commenting was in the press last Friday the 9th

#36 picblanc

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:39

Done! If it has been dropped I wonder why the story where Palmer was commenting was in the press last Friday the 9th


Nice one Mike, hope the car boys that don't like the plan can register their objections too. :up:

#37 exclubracer

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:18

Added this to the main TNF thread.

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry5449529


#38 exclubracer

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:15

Sevenoaks Council, the application is here

http://pa.sevenoaks....l=LTCRIABK8V000



You can make a comment on the application on that page.

The page has been taken down.

#39 picblanc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:19

Interesting, hopefully its dead & buried? But I don't trust these planners & high flying business people with the funny handshakes. :rolleyes:

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#40 mfd

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:58

with the funny handshakes. :rolleyes:


D'you mean the one where you count your fingers after?

#41 picblanc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:00

D'you mean the one where you count your fingers after?


And check your pockets for your wallet after! :D

#42 Russell Burrows

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:20

Interesting, hopefully its dead & buried? But I don't trust these planners & high flying business people with the funny handshakes. :rolleyes:

It's back up now. I wouldn't believe its been knocked on the head until it comes from the council.

#43 IanDalziel

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 20:48

Imagine a brake failure to say a fast truck as it hammers down the hill from Druids. The new hairpin means it could cross over to Paddock and collide with other competitors.


After they build the tarmac staircase, I suppose? Have you been to Brands Hatch? There's a bit of an elevation difference, you know! :rotfl:

#44 tonyed

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:38

D'you mean the one where you count your fingers after?


And your watch :evil:

Edited by tonyed, 16 December 2011 - 06:39.


#45 exclubracer

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 00:14

QUOTE (WhiteBlue @ Dec 16 2011, 09:56)
I don't see a great significance in this issue. If the owners think the re profiling of the corner will be beneficial they probably have given it some thought.

For the wider public Brands Hatch is of no concern since it lost F1 status. It remains a fairly dangerous old track which seems to be unsuitable even for F2 as the Surtees death indicates. Several crash zones are deadly for open wheel race cars. Cars leaving the track due to driver or technical faults will hit the barriers at high speed levels raising concerns that drivers will be exposed to massive impact shocks and that wheels can be separated and return to the circuit.
QUOTE

Erm...F1 status??...F2?...open wheel race cars?...driver or technical faults?...wheels can be separated...blah blah blah

Do you you seriously believe that you 'four wheeled johnnies' are the only ones who have any interest in the configuration of the UK's most historic race circuit?

With the greatest respect... get a life.

To add...FFS :rolleyes:


Edited by exclubracer, 17 December 2011 - 00:17.


#46 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 00:42

Do you you seriously believe that you 'four wheeled johnnies' are the only ones who have any interest in the configuration of the UK's most historic race circuit?
With the greatest respect... get a life. To add...FFS :rolleyes:


Mick, that's one of the posts from the Racing Comments thread about Brands?

#47 exclubracer

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 00:47

Mick, that's one of the posts from the Racing Comments thread about Brands?

Correct Mike, I just copied over here for info...

Just to add... Mike, did you see my comment re Rob Gourlay on the 'career moves' thread?

O/T, sorry! :blush:

Edited by exclubracer, 17 December 2011 - 00:53.


#48 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:26

Just to add... Mike, did you see my comment re Rob Gourlay on the 'career moves' thread?
O/T, sorry! :blush:

I hadn't seen it Mick & you could very well, be right...

#49 Tonka

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 09:43

There are now a dozen public comments about the proposed changes on the Sevenoaks council site.

Has anyone heard any comments from Palmer in the last week?



#50 mfd

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 12:51

Has anyone heard any comments from Palmer in the last week?


Not recently but this earlier...I guess "a contstant radius left" is another way of saying hairpin - btw. the spelling error is theirs, not mine!

Jonathan Palmer, Motorsport Vision boss: “At the moment, Graham Hill is neither fast enough to be a real challenge on a Superbike or slow enough to be a place for a safe overtake. The plans we have submitted will make the track between Druids and it totally straight and the actual corner a contstant radius left.