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Ricciardo VS Vergne - 2012


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#1 gillesthegenius

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:23

Posted Image

Name: Daniel Ricciardo
Age: 22 years (D/O/B:1/7/89)
Nationality: Australian
Contracted to: Scuderia Toro Rosso
Career Highlight: 2009 British F3 Champion



versus


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Name: Jean Eric Vergne
Age: 21 years (D/O/B:25/4/90)
Nationality: French
Contracted to: Scuderia Torro Rosso
Career Highlight: 2010 British F3 Champion


With the two young pretenders to a possible vacancy at RBR in 2013 both set to go head to head at Toro Rosso in 2012, we might be treated to what could, god willing, turn out to be the hottest team mate rivalry ever in a midfield car.

So here we go then
- Dan vs JEV!!!

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#2 Jaybools

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:35

Well here we go - pretty big team battle here! Hoping Dan comes out on top :D

#3 gillesthegenius

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:43

Well here we go - pretty big team battle here! Hoping Dan comes out on top :D


Im on JEV's side, but only slightly. Would love to see them both develop into world class drivers. :)

#4 gillesthegenius

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:52

Dan:

This is a really big deal for me and something I have wanted ever since I was driving for Toro Rosso on Friday mornings at the races in the first part of last season.

To be honest, I am still jumping up and down with excitement at the news. In the second half of 2011 I learned a lot from the people I worked with, racing in eleven Grands Prix and I want to thank them for the opportunity they gave me.

I have to say that joining Scuderia Toro Rosso was always my real goal, so a big thank you to Red Bull for giving me this fantastic opportunity and now I can't wait to get to work once testing begins.



JEV:

First of all, I must thank Red Bull for all their support so far and for believing I am ready to take on the ultimate challenge of racing in Formula 1.

Christmas has come early for me this year! Having driven for them a few times this year and also testing for Red Bull Racing in Abu Dhabi, I definitely feel ready to make the move, even if I know there is a big difference between testing and actually racing.

I enjoyed working with the guys at Toro Rosso this year and I can't wait to be part of the team for real. Sitting on the grid in Melbourne next March cannot come soon enough.



#5 GregAU

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:56

Regardless of actual talent or real life speed, a Euro driver will always trump an Aussie.

I suspect Dan to initially cream JEV....then, mysterious bad starts, stolen front wings and shithouse pit stop strategy will start creeping in for poor Dan.

/cynical.

#6 senna da silva

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:57

Not impressed by Danny Ricky. JEV will thrash him.

#7 Sakae

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:00

Thanks for warning about what we are to expect in this thread. Bye. :wave:

#8 v@sh

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:08

I'm going to go slightly more JEV over the course of the season but it'll be close. Not sure why fans think JEV will smash Ricciardo.

Didn't Ricciardo beat JEV by a margin when they were both racing in Formula Renault 2.0, with Ricciardo winning the championship. Even though F1 is a different beast altogether, I think mentally Dan will be ahead initially.

#9 Mastah

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:24

Absolutely great pairing, I expect a lot from both. My bet is on JEV, although Dan shouldn't be far off him.

#10 wattoroos

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:39

I dont think one will smash the other, but will be interesting

#11 Jaybools

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:57

I'm going to go slightly more JEV over the course of the season but it'll be close. Not sure why fans think JEV will smash Ricciardo.

Didn't Ricciardo beat JEV by a margin when they were both racing in Formula Renault 2.0, with Ricciardo winning the championship. Even though F1 is a different beast altogether, I think mentally Dan will be ahead initially.


Indeed he did. When they were teammates @ Tech 1 in 2010 FR3.5, Ricciardo beat him there as well (although JEV came in half way through, so how relevant this result is remains to be seen). Unfortunately Dan's ISR car in 2011 was crap compared to the Carlin cars of Wickens + JEV (having car failures in Spa and Hungary, being generally slow...), plus the fact he missed out on races due to STR test driver duties, means no real comparison can be made.

Thankfully they'll have a whole year together so we can find out!

Edited by Jaybools, 15 December 2011 - 04:58.


#12 BCM

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:58

Don't know enough about their speed relative to one another. Would prefer Dan to come out on top as he's from my home town and seems like a nice guy. However irrespective of the final result it's good to see a lot of new faces on the grid this year.

#13 Zava

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:25

bah, can't decide, too much awesome for 1 team. :drunk: Dan is a really nice guy (had a chat at WSR@hungary) and seems to be a smooth&fast driver, and JEV looks to be a ruthless race animal.
well, whoever does well I'll be happy. :)

Edited by Zava, 15 December 2011 - 08:26.


#14 gillesthegenius

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:30

bah, can't decide, too much awesome for 1 team. :drunk: Dan is a really nice guy (had a chat at WSR@hungary) and seems to be a smooth&fast driver, and JEV looks to be a ruthless race animal.
well, whoever does well I'll be happy. :)


:up:

#15 stanga

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:51

Thanks for warning about what we are to expect in this thread. Bye. :wave:


Pot and kettle calling!

Being English, it's difficult to choose between an Aussie or a Frenchman. Hmmm... a coin toss gives it to the Aussie!

Edited by stanga, 15 December 2011 - 08:53.


#16 danstheman

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:07

I'll be supporting Daniel of course. I've followed him since he won the Formula Renault 2.0 series

He's just seemed to be a cut above the rest, and has murdered every team mate so far. He'll have a greater challenge with Verge but I'm confident he'll come out on top.

#17 Jaybools

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:12

Pot and kettle calling!

Being English, it's difficult to choose between an Aussie or a Frenchman. Hmmm... a coin toss gives it to the Aussie!


It's ok, you know deep down us Aussies are really your mates. Unlike those smelly frenchies.. *tongue in cheek, relax*

#18 Youichi

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:31

Not impressed by Danny Ricky. JEV will thrash him.


Is that the same JEV who lost to his teammate in WSR ?

#19 stanga

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:31

It's ok, you know deep down us Aussies are really your mates. Unlike those smelly frenchies.. *tongue in cheek, relax*


Heh... don't worry... the coin toss was just to make it seem like I was being even handed. I don't even have a coin! I'm broke! :up:

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#20 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:37

When they were teammates @ Tech 1 in 2010 FR3.5, Ricciardo beat him there as well


FALSE

In their period as teammates, Vergne scored 53 points, Ricciardo scored 50, despite Vergne stepping into the car 2/3rd through the season.

I'll be supporting Daniel of course. I've followed him since he won the Formula Renault 2.0 series

He's just seemed to be a cut above the rest, and has murdered every team mate so far. He'll have a greater challenge with Verge but I'm confident he'll come out on top.


FALSE

Vergne beat Ricciardo as teammates in 3.5, despite Ricciardo having 12 races more experience of the car.

Edited by jamiegc, 15 December 2011 - 09:40.


#21 GhostR

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:39

It should be an epic battle. My feel at the moment is that both are very fast, talented drivers with differing styles. Will be interesting to see who comes out on top - which may well come down to car characteristics suiting one driver more than the other. Dan with the early advantage thanks to his HRT race starts this year - which will also be an advantage come half season, with Dan knowing the tracks just that little bit better.

As an Aussie I'm predisposed to support Ricciardo. But I also like the personal side he's shown over the last year. He seems quite relaxed with himself, and has a ready smile. Reminds me a bit of the cheeky Vettel that started with STR.

#22 GhostR

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:44

FALSE

In their period as teammates, Vergne scored 53 points, Ricciardo scored 50, despite Vergne stepping into the car 2/3rd through the season.

Only because some knob took Ricciardo out at race 1 start in Silverstone. Ricciardo beat Vergne in the second race. And it must also be taken into account that Vergne had the freedom to go balls-out maximum-risk, maximum-reward - while Ricciardo was in the middle of a title fight.

FR3.5 2010 isn't going to provide any sort of accurate comparison point.

#23 69dude

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:49

Should be a good fight. Both are young and promising,imposible to say at this point which one will be at the top.

#24 corf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:52

Don't like Vergne, will be cheering on Ricciardo.

#25 F1ultimate

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:53

They'll be fighting like their lives are depending on it. To have an Adrian Newey car lined up for you in 2013 is one of the biggest prizes there are in F1. My money and support is behind Ricciardo. He displayed great composure and consistency at HRT.

#26 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:56

Only because some knob took Ricciardo out at race 1 start in Silverstone. Ricciardo beat Vergne in the second race. And it must also be taken into account that Vergne had the freedom to go balls-out maximum-risk, maximum-reward - while Ricciardo was in the middle of a title fight.

FR3.5 2010 isn't going to provide any sort of accurate comparison point.


To be fair, the fact in itself that Vergne could jump straight into the car and gain 4 podiums out of 6 races is very impressive.

Ricciardo missed out on 2010 crown because he was crashed into, Vergne missed out on the 2011 crown because Wickens took him off.

It should be a good close fight, I fancy Vergne to pick up fans with some kamikaze Kobayashi style overtakes, but also to drop points when those moves dont come off.

Vergne is in the 'nicer' position of the two as he doesnt have the 11 races and thousands of KMs race mileage under his belt so carries less expectation.

#27 Jaybools

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:57

FALSE

In their period as teammates, Vergne scored 53 points, Ricciardo scored 50, despite Vergne stepping into the car 2/3rd through the season.



FALSE

Vergne beat Ricciardo as teammates in 3.5, despite Ricciardo having 12 races more experience of the car.


Waaaaah? did you watch the races at all? Ricciardo got punted off at the start of the race, one which he should have won given the race pace of Lancaster. At the end of the year Ricciardo had an oil leak. Don't give me this statistics BS because this is what actually happened that was out of Dans control.

Also whats with the FALSE crap? Are we on a game show?


To be fair, the fact in itself that Vergne could jump straight into the car and gain 4 podiums out of 6 races is very impressive.

Ricciardo missed out on 2010 crown because he was crashed into, Vergne missed out on the 2011 crown because Wickens took him off.

It should be a good close fight, I fancy Vergne to pick up fans with some kamikaze Kobayashi style overtakes, but also to drop points when those moves dont come off.

Vergne is in the 'nicer' position of the two as he doesnt have the 11 races and thousands of KMs race mileage under his belt so carries less expectation.


Far more reasonable post :smoking:

Edited by Jaybools, 15 December 2011 - 09:59.


#28 F1ultimate

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:43

It should be a good close fight, I fancy Vergne to pick up fans with some kamikaze Kobayashi style overtakes, but also to drop points when those moves dont come off.


GP2-esque sperm race driving might score him some cheers in the season openers but I can tell you that half way through the season, teams look at nothing but the drivers and constructors standing. STR are probably set on beating next season if car development will be good enough to keep up. More than anything Red Bull will be looking for consistency in point scoring, i.e finishing within the top ten, which will be a chellenge given that Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes and Red Bull will all be hogging the top ten finishing spots. The mid-field will have to settle for rather low points which will make the really good drivers stand out even more.

#29 dau

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:56

To be fair, the fact in itself that Vergne could jump straight into the car and gain 4 podiums out of 6 races is very impressive.

Ricciardo missed out on 2010 crown because he was crashed into...

Didn't he lose the title in a direct fight against Aleshin in Barcelona in the wet? Been some time, but i think he even spun at some point.

Edited by dau, 15 December 2011 - 10:56.


#30 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:57

GP2-esque sperm race driving might score him some cheers in the season openers but I can tell you that half way through the season, teams look at nothing but the drivers and constructors standing. STR are probably set on beating next season if car development will be good enough to keep up. More than anything Red Bull will be looking for consistency in point scoring, i.e finishing within the top ten, which will be a chellenge given that Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes and Red Bull will all be hogging the top ten finishing spots. The mid-field will have to settle for rather low points which will make the really good drivers stand out even more.


Alguersuari managed 7 top 10's, two 11ths & a 12th and was still dropped.

Marko told Alguersuari they are looking for a driver who can transcend the car and put in a special performance, not a driver who can constantly do 'decent' jobs.


#31 purplejohn

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:58

Ill be supporting Ricciardo out of the two, alought i wouldnt be to botherd becasue either way when they move up to Red Bull Vettel will cream them

#32 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:02

Didn't he lose the title in a direct fight against Aleshin in Barcelona in the wet? Been some time, but i think he even spun at some point.


Correct, the final race of 2010 was a straight race between Ricciardo & Aleshin for the title. Aleshin caught Ricciardo and overtook him right at the end and Ricciardo then spun. His fans will tell you the title was cost by him being taken out in Silverstone.

Equally the final race of 2011 was Wickens v Vergne in a straight race, and Wickens took Vergne and himself out.

#33 Zava

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:07

Didn't he lose the title in a direct fight against Aleshin in Barcelona in the wet? Been some time, but i think he even spun at some point.

I read he had an oil leak there.

#34 vas04614

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:09

Wont Judge until first half is finished...

#35 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:11

I read he had an oil leak there.


He did.

#36 Zava

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:13

He did.

so that's not a straight race then, or is it?
also, I recall him only spinning on the very last corner when it didn't really matter.

Edited by Zava, 15 December 2011 - 11:14.


#37 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:17

so that's not a straight race then, or is it?
also, I recall him only spinning on the very last corner when it didn't really matter.


It was a straight race in the sense that whoever finished infront won the title which ultimately was Aleshin. Aleshin had a delayed pitstop and made an error that cost him some time and Ricciardo had an oil leak which allowed Aleshin to close back in.

#38 krapmeister

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:29

Correct, the final race of 2010 was a straight race between Ricciardo & Aleshin for the title. Aleshin caught Ricciardo and overtook him right at the end and Ricciardo then spun. His fans will tell you the title was cost by him being taken out in Silverstone.

Equally the final race of 2011 was Wickens v Vergne in a straight race, and Wickens took Vergne and himself out.


I read he had an oil leak there.


He did.


:lol:

So going to have fun with you in 2012 - btw Wickens took himself out... :wave: :p

#39 DarthWillie

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:52

will be nice, Ricciardo has some f1 experience so should be quicker in the beginning, but I somehow rate Vergne more. With all the hate going towards Vergne lately I also have no other option than to support Vergne off course :lol:

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#40 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:55

So going to have fun with you in 2012 - btw Wickens took himself out... :wave: :p


Wickens broke his own suspension and damaged Vergne's hence Vergne going further and further backwards until Fauzy put him out of his misery.

Wickens could've avoided colliding with Vergne....but then Schumi could've avoided collisions in 94 & 97 :lol:

#41 krapmeister

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:03

Wickens broke his own suspension and damaged Vergne's hence Vergne going further and further backwards until Fauzy put him out of his misery.

Wickens could've avoided colliding with Vergne....but then Schumi could've avoided collisions in 94 & 97 :lol:


Well that is your point of view, but you could say Vergne broke his own suspension after coming across the front of Wickens, and that was after Wickens gave him room at T1 so as not to let Vergne take them both out there.

I call it a racing incident - but if you want to apportion blame...

#42 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:20

Well that is your point of view, but you could say Vergne broke his own suspension after coming across the front of Wickens, and that was after Wickens gave him room at T1 so as not to let Vergne take them both out there.

I call it a racing incident - but if you want to apportion blame...


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Vergne gets up the inside, has the racing line and gives Wickens plenty of space, Wickens rides over the kerb and into Vergne. Wickens couldve quite easily gotten out of the throttle and slotted in directly behind Vergne.

#43 Sakae

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:23

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Vergne gets up the inside, has the racing line and gives Wickens plenty of space, Wickens rides over the kerb and into Vergne. Wickens couldve quite easily gotten out of the throttle and slotted in directly behind Vergne.


I see Jerez incident all over again...

#44 krapmeister

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:27

Vergne gets up the inside, has the racing line and gives Wickens plenty of space, Wickens rides over the kerb and into Vergne. Wickens couldve quite easily gotten out of the throttle and slotted in directly behind Vergne.


I still see a racing incident, and you could argue that Vergne needed to give more room as you can't assume that the other car won't be there...

#45 noikeee

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:28

My hunch is Dan's going to win it, but it's going to be really really tight.

Now people may say a close battle will just end up with another Speed/Liuzzi or Alguersuari/Buemi situation where the fact nobody stands out hinders their progress, but Red Bull will know if they're good enough to step up. Everything so far points out that both of them are good enough to step up, so now let's what happens when they go through the big test.

Really fun battle coming up here, I think I'm more excited about this than Kimi and Grosjean's comebacks! Even if it means Mark Webber being potentially dropped to whoever wins this, Mark's not been anywhere near his best lately...

Edited by paranoik0, 15 December 2011 - 12:29.


#46 Disgrace

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:31

Blah blah Wickens blah JEV.


Enough of this off-topic rubbish diluting what is going to be a mega-thread already.

#47 krapmeister

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:33

Enough of this off-topic rubbish diluting what is going to be a mega-thread already.


:up:

#48 wattoroos

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:40

Hopefully ricciardo gets it but vergne i think will, marko thinks bigger of him and they would know.

#49 goingthedistance

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 13:04

I think Daniel has a touch more speed in him, but will we see it? Dan sounds like he can drive a little too within himself, a little too safe. Some interesting comments from Torro Rosso's Ascanelli and HRT technical director Jacky Eeckelaert on Dan:

"Ricciardo is a good kid," Ascanelli said, "but I didn't think he was daring enough. Every Friday morning he was within a tenth of his team-mate but every weekend he did, he was lucky because we had a second set of tyres for development and he could get in the groove.

"If you're within a tenth of your team-mate and don't put a foot wrong, that's good. He never put a wheel off the circuit, so he had margin, which was another good sign. Maybe he was targeting doing what he needed without taking risks.

"I don't think he did a bad job and I rate his feedback, I enjoyed his smiling face around the paddock but, on the other side, frankly, I think he missed the chance to do more. I think he had bullets in his belt and simply didn't shoot them.

"He was content with what he achieved, which is wise, but… it was Thomas Edison who said genius was one per cent inspiration and 99 per cent setting high targets. But he's [Ricciardo] bright."

Eeckelaert made a similar point about Ricciardo's spare capacity.

"I was happy we had [Vitantonio] Liuzzi in the car because he's a known quantity. Daniel takes his time to come up to speed but in the end is the same speed or similar – sometimes faster, sometimes slower.

"He got there very quickly for a rookie and without any mistakes; no spins, not even a flat-spot, nothing. That was very impressive. There were lots of others, even those with more experience like Bruno Senna, flying off left and right.

"In India, Daniel was doing a very impressive first stint and then at the pitstop the wheel nut was not fixed properly and he had to come back in. Therefore he finished behind Narain [Karthikeyan], but he had been pulling away. It's hard for these guys because at the back they're not really on the radar and people don't notice.

"But Ricciardo got more out of the car than was really in it - especially in race conditions. I think he has big potential."


Edited by goingthedistance, 15 December 2011 - 13:05.


#50 GhostR

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 13:32

"But Ricciardo got more out of the car than was really in it - especially in race conditions. I think he has big potential."


I think that says a lot. They feel Dan wasn't pushing the envelope in terms of risk, and yet still we get that comment... Makes you wonder how much was left in the tank, and what could have been achieved if he'd put it on the line. Let's hope that 2012 we see him hanging it out there - I'd rather see him pushing the envelope a bit and the occasional error as a result than hanging just short of giving it all. Vergne won't hold back, I'm sure.

Edited by GhostR, 15 December 2011 - 13:34.