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Ricciardo VS Vergne - 2012


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#551 Sardukar

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:46

pickup problem or ran out of fuel on final corner...damn thats devestating. Good drive though and i hope vergne is ok after his off.

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#552 danstheman

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 21:20

Really disappointed for Dan! But he was fighting in the midfield and deserved P10, shame about the last corner. At least STR have a purpose now rather than racing on their own between the midfield and Caterhams

#553 Sardukar

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:56

Ricciardo qualified ahead of vergne again and then went on to finish 9th. Solid race and held his nerve infront of webber. Vergne was pretty unlucky again, getting taking out by schumi.

#554 goldenboy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:59

something strange was going on in the early part of the race, ric was in front by a bit then all of a sudden 10 secs behind and slow for awhile, anyone see what happened? Was hard to make sense of his times early on. shame for jev, but happy ric kept webber behind. I'm starting to look forward tot he day one of them take over from webber now..

#555 marcoferrari

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 18:38

Vergne was yet again better in race then Ricciardo... But in general both were lucky to run in points after so many retirements... Still waiting for a showing like Alguersuari did last year in Valencia - 8th place from 18th, while nobody retired...

#556 goldenboy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 18:45

Vergne was yet again better in race then Ricciardo... But in general both were lucky to run in points after so many retirements... Still waiting for a showing like Alguersuari did last year in Valencia - 8th place from 18th, while nobody retired...

we all see your point and most now agree with you that JA should have been kept, but you need to let it go now! Sounds like he may get a seat in F1 so may have been the best thing to happen to him anyway  ;)

#557 marcoferrari

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 18:49

we all see your point and most now agree with you that JA should have been kept, but you need to let it go now! Sounds like he may get a seat in F1 so may have been the best thing to happen to him anyway ;)


Hmm, I was reading and hearing from everywhere how extremely good Ricciardo and Vergne are, so I am just waiting for a comfirmation of these claims...  ;) At the moment, I am still not convinced...  ;)

#558 goldenboy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 18:56

Hmm, I was reading and hearing from everywhere how extremely good Ricciardo and Vergne are, so I am just waiting for a comfirmation of these claims... ;) At the moment, I am still not convinced... ;)

fair enough but remember this is the ric vs jev thread not the ric and jev vs alg thread. maybe you should make one :lol: jk
And anyway there is no way to compare jaime to either of these 2 - different car - they could even be better!  ;) but I won't make that assumption, just saying

#559 LukeM

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:24

Hmm, I was reading and hearing from everywhere how extremely good Ricciardo and Vergne are, so I am just waiting for a comfirmation of these claims... ;) At the moment, I am still not convinced... ;)


you have no effing clue how good they are or not as they have not been directly compared to there predecessors.

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#560 Sardukar

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:34

you have no effing clue how good they are or not as they have not been directly compared to there predecessors.


pretty much this ^^

any talk of how good or bad the previous STR drivers were needs to be kept out of this thread. Not only is it offtopic but its slightly pathetic to keep bringing them up.

#561 pistonfree

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:29

Did it look to anyone else like the team split the guys on strategy? They both stopped on about lap 13 but Vergne was back in about 25 while Ricciardo was out until about 32. So looks like JEV might have been on a 3-stopper?

#562 karne

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:56

Did it look to anyone else like the team split the guys on strategy? They both stopped on about lap 13 but Vergne was back in about 25 while Ricciardo was out until about 32. So looks like JEV might have been on a 3-stopper?


They did and as usual Dan got screwed in the strategy. Somehow the strategy always seems to stick him behind Vergne.

#563 Watkins74

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:59

They did and as usual Dan got screwed in the strategy. Somehow the strategy always seems to stick him behind Vergne.

Hmmm..karne thinks there is a conspiracy against an Australian driver. Shocking. :p

#564 Zava

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:59

They did and as usual Dan got screwed in the strategy. Somehow the strategy always seems to stick him behind Vergne.

you've got some serious "mydriverisalwaysf*ckedbyhisteam" issues...

#565 goldenboy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:02

you've got some serious "mydriverisalwaysf*ckedbyhisteam" issues...

it's becoming nauseating. At least she didn't use 65 of the same emoticon in a row this time...

#566 karne

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:03

Hmmm..karne thinks there is a conspiracy against an Australian driver. Shocking. :p


An observation from season 2012 people. Jeezus. Go back and look. STRs strategies this year have been downright stupid at times for both drivers. Remember Vergne getting that stupid call to pit for inters at Monaco?


#567 goldenboy

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:07

An observation from season 2012 people. Jeezus. Go back and look. STRs strategies this year have been downright stupid at times for both drivers. Remember Vergne getting that stupid call to pit for inters at Monaco?

that is not what you said/implied.

#568 Sardukar

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:12

Karne is actually right. STR almost always split strategy, which means one of their drivers is always at a disadvantage. It works both ways, there have been times when DR was on the better strat.

#569 pistonfree

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:41

Karne is actually right. STR almost always split strategy, which means one of their drivers is always at a disadvantage. It works both ways, there have been times when DR was on the better strat.


Makes sense to be honest. They're off the pace this year and both drivers are there or there about for race pace so why not split the strategy? You've got to try something when you're that far down the grid.

I wasn't trying to start a 'my guy's hard done by' debate. I was hoping to help people realise that comparing on-track performance between these guys this year is pretty hard when they're almost always on vastly different strategy.

#570 InvertedLift

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:58

Makes sense to be honest.

It also makes this thread somewhat pointless. There is almost never a direct in-race comparison that can be made due to the split strategy. It's pretty much only qualy where you can compare them directly this year.

#571 Sardukar

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:05

It also makes this thread somewhat pointless. There is almost never a direct in-race comparison that can be made due to the split strategy. It's pretty much only qualy where you can compare them directly this year.


its not completely pointless though, its pretty clear that this year Ricciardo has quite a bit more raw speed than Vergne. Qual is important and team bosses will be paying attention.

#572 GhostR

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:48

its not completely pointless though, its pretty clear that this year Ricciardo has quite a bit more raw speed than Vergne. Qual is important and team bosses will be paying attention.

I think it's fair to say that the expectation for the start of the season was that DR would have the upper hand initially, and then Vergne would come good as the season progressed. But I think what we've seen is that early doors running on circuits that neither driver had F1 knowledge of, Vergne hung in there very strongly and even got the better of DR at times. But since we've got the tracks that DR got to race on last year, he's stamped a definite qually advantage in place.

#573 krapmeister

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:01

Seems also that Ricciardo has improved his starts/first laps as the season has gone on - as although he generally has had the upper hand wrt qualifying, earlier in the season he was almost always behind Vergne by the end of the first lap. As an example, after that astonishing 6th in Bahrain qualifying he was behind Vergne - who had qualified 19th - after lap 1...

#574 RedOne

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:09

Seems also that Ricciardo has improved his starts/first laps as the season has gone on - as although he generally has had the upper hand wrt qualifying, earlier in the season he was almost always behind Vergne by the end of the first lap. As an example, after that astonishing 6th in Bahrain qualifying he was behind Vergne - who had qualified 19th - after lap 1...


Maybe he loves looking at Vergne's gearbox

#575 Sardukar

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:57

Ricciardo in the points again and .4 faster than vergne in q2. Fairly dominating weekend.

#576 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:01

Vergne isn't good enough for F1 yet.

#577 InvertedLift

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:06

Vergne isn't good enough for F1 yet.

He is. They both are. But Vergne is still pretty raw and needs more time to develop.

#578 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:06

Great defence by Danny Ric on Schu too!

#579 goldenboy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:06

excellent job from ric, particularly keeping schumi on softs at bay.

As for vergne, I don't have anything bad to say, but you have to wonder whats better for him: an extra year experience in FR3.5 or the experience in F1 even though a struggle. Pretty hard to say as I don't feel he is ready for F1 but also don't feel he would have gotten much more out of FR3.F!

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#580 Anderis

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:13

It's always better to be in F1 and learn, as long as you aren't going bo be dropped by the team too quickly. Being in F1 you can learn more than elsewhere. Vettel was pretty uninspiring in his first couple of F1 races, many times outpaced by Liuzzi. But his early F1 experience got him a big advantage in later stage of his career.

#581 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:16

He is. They both are. But Vergne is still pretty raw and needs more time to develop.


I disagree I think he needs a year in a lower formula, whilst Ricciardo was racing against Maldonado and then Schumacher, Vergne was racing against Kovalainen he was behind him for God knows how many laps.

#582 goldenboy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:04

It's always better to be in F1 and learn, as long as you aren't going bo be dropped by the team too quickly. Being in F1 you can learn more than elsewhere. Vettel was pretty uninspiring in his first couple of F1 races, many times outpaced by Liuzzi. But his early F1 experience got him a big advantage in later stage of his career.

yeah, I agree actually, it's better for him to be in F1 as long as he gets another year, which I hope he does. Team wise though they would have been better keeping JA for another year.

Although, and I'm trying to not sound like a fanboy here, but maybe DR is actually worth some of the hype he received recently (undeserved at the time I must admit though).

#583 Yhamm

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:11

I think Vergne did a good race. Was stuck behind Kova for a while but Vergne had hard tyre and Kova soft I think. At the end, he was fighting with Di Resta, which is good to me

it was his first race on this track, so good result

It's still his first year, still learning, and on this, Ricciardo still has the advantage of his last year with HRT

#584 krapmeister

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:59

Great race for Dan :up: Really good defending against Schumi as well, also obviously helped by the fact the STR was one of if not the quickest in a straightline according to a speed trap graphic I saw. Obviously got a good bit of luck in how the field played out after T1 but grabbed the opportunity and didn't disappoint.

Vergne certainly deserves to be in F1 and another year in a lower formula won't do him any good - he has shown quite a bit of promise IMO and a year's experience of being in F1 and racing on the tracks will be invaluable for next season.

It's just a shame we don't have a known quality alongside either of these two so that we can actually guage how good either of them are in this years car.

Edited by krapmeister, 07 October 2012 - 10:01.


#585 wattoroos

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:09

Great race for Dan :up: Really good defending against Schumi as well, also obviously helped by the fact the STR was one of if not the quickest in a straightline according to a speed trap graphic I saw. Obviously got a good bit of luck in how the field played out after T1 but grabbed the opportunity and didn't disappoint.

Vergne certainly deserves to be in F1 and another year in a lower formula won't do him any good - he has shown quite a bit of promise IMO and a year's experience of being in F1 and racing on the tracks will be invaluable for next season.

It's just a shame we don't have a known quality alongside either of these two so that we can actually guage how good either of them are in this years car.

:up: Dan had a good race and Vergne deserves to be in F1, although as you said, having a known quantity would help determine how good they really are.

#586 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:55

Someone should sign Ricciardo fast. Driver of the race in Suzuka and has been excellent all season.

Future WDC material based on his racecraft and speed fighting against Koba, Button, Massa and MSC under enormous pressure yesterday.

Hopefully Red Bull sign him up if he is to do another Toro Rosso drive next year.

#587 marcoferrari

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:29

Someone should sign Ricciardo fast. Driver of the race in Suzuka and has been excellent all season.

Future WDC material based on his racecraft and speed fighting against Koba, Button, Massa and MSC under enormous pressure yesterday.

Hopefully Red Bull sign him up if he is to do another Toro Rosso drive next year.


Oh, not this hype again... He is doing solid, but clearly nothing spectacular yet...

#588 krapmeister

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:09

Someone should sign Ricciardo fast. Driver of the race in Suzuka and has been excellent all season.

Future WDC material based on his racecraft and speed fighting against Koba, Button, Massa and MSC under enormous pressure yesterday.

Hopefully Red Bull sign him up if he is to do another Toro Rosso drive next year.


I think you are being a little OTT there. He had a very good race, benefitted a bit from the first lap chaos but made the most of it, and showed good defensive skills to keep Schumi behind him for the last point.

I think he has definately shown enough to keep his seat for next season, and has definately got the upper hand on his teammate as the season has gone on.

Oh, not this hype again... He is doing solid, but clearly nothing spectacular yet...


Bahrain qualifying was a pretty amazing effort, unfortunately he threw that opportunity away with a terrible first lap. But he has definately improved overall as the season has gone on - first laps/starts especially. But lets be honest, unless he gets a win you won't be impressed anyway... :lol:

#589 goingthedistance

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:22

Daniel has been impressive lately. His racecraft and race pace have both improved. Unlike Grosjean he appears to be correcting his weaknesses. JEV is no slouch either, his race was ruined yesterday by getting stuck behind Heikki in the first stint. Still at the moment Daniel looks like the more complete driver - a better qualifier, excellent with tyre management and now adding in better starts and more consistent race pace.

#590 wattoroos

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:29

Daniel has been impressive lately. His racecraft and race pace have both improved. Unlike Grosjean he appears to be correcting his weaknesses. JEV is no slouch either, his race was ruined yesterday by getting stuck behind Heikki in the first stint. Still at the moment Daniel looks like the more complete driver - a better qualifier, excellent with tyre management and now adding in better starts and more consistent race pace.

I think once JEV improves his qually he will be in a much better position, I thought that JEV was going to be the better qualifier before the season started, maybe it will come with experience. America will be a good track to see how they go on a track that is very unknown but as usual TR will probably split strategies in the race and make any comparisons rather meaningless. Next year will be an interesting one between these two (If RB decides to keep them)

#591 Jimisgod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:52

Dan looks good, but I fear the TR won't be getting better next year. Can't see him satisfying the perverted desires of Helmet Marko, that car isn't getting near a podium unless we get like 8 finishers. I think he can become a regular points finisher, but he should try to get a 2014 contract in hand with somewhere not TR by mid way through next year if they aren't making noises that he should move up to the big team.

He doesn't look like a WDC straight off the bat, but he is now blowing Vergne into the sand and pushed Liuzzi out, who wasn't all that poor in his many F1 chances.

#592 krapmeister

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:14

Autosport has apparently given Ricciardo a 10 for the Suzuka weekend, and Vergne only a 4... :drunk:

Edited by krapmeister, 08 October 2012 - 12:15.


#593 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:29

I called it. This is one rating Autosport got right. Ricciardo was a master in the race yesterday.

#594 Ravenak

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:15

Vergne 8 points
Ricciardo 7 points

Facts. Let's have a look again in 5 races.

#595 bub

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:36

Seriously impressed with DR all season.

#596 lbennie

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:27

Vergne 8 points
Ricciardo 7 points

Facts. Let's have a look again in 5 races.


Points are a ridiculous way to judge driver pairings relative performance when the car is more often than not no where near the top ten on pace.

Ricciardo is bossing it at the moment.

Edited by lbennie, 09 October 2012 - 03:31.


#597 goldenboy

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:15

As for the STR, the finish to this year and in particular next year are going to be really interesting having james key on board now. Dan quoted as saying some pretty good things about him on autosport today. Also, may want to watch his words a little, came across as a bit of a rag on the team.

#598 olliek88

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:29

I think once JEV improves his qually he will be in a much better position, I thought that JEV was going to be the better qualifier before the season started, maybe it will come with experience. America will be a good track to see how they go on a track that is very unknown but as usual TR will probably split strategies in the race and make any comparisons rather meaningless. Next year will be an interesting one between these two (If RB decides to keep them)


Its only from Silverstone onwards that RIC has had the advantage of knowing the circuits, even then JEV has experience of Monza, Spa, Hungary & Silverstone so its not that big of an advantage.

Thought it'd be very, very close but RIC has been consistently the quicker of the two and since his balls up on lap 1 in Bahrain got much better during races (starts in particular). RIC's defence Vs Shumi at the weekend was very intelligent. Been very impressed with the kid.

#599 Ravenak

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:16

Points are a ridiculous way to judge driver pairings relative performance when the car is more often than not no where near the top ten on pace.

Ricciardo is bossing it at the moment.


In the end, points are often the only way to judge a driver. JEV has scored more points than Ricciardo and I expect it to continue.

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#600 goldenboy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:39

In the end, points are often the only way to judge a driver. JEV has scored more points than Ricciardo and I expect it to continue.

think we wil have to agree to disagree on that one :lol:

would be really impressed if vergne outquallied and beat DR in this race, with Dan having last year here.