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Ricciardo VS Vergne - 2012


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#51 purplejohn

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 14:37

Its going to be really interesting watching these two this season, March cant some soon enough!

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#52 Alfisti

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 14:48

Those are very interesting quotes and makes you wonder what role the tyres will play.

#53 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:38

Vergne says Ricciardo will have the early edge:

Jean-Eric Vergne has conceded that Scuderia Toro Rosso team-mate Daniel Ricciardo may have the edge on him at the start of next year, but hopes he can develop quickly to catch him up.

The Frenchman has been handed his Formula 1 chance by Toro Rosso, after the outfit announced on Wednesday that it was dropping Jaime Alguersuari and Sebastian Buemi.

But with new team-mate Ricciardo already having half a season of racing for HRT until his belt, Vergne is realistic about his expectations for the start of his grand prix career.

"In Formula 1, you only get one team-mate, so you have to make the best of it, working together to do as good a job as possible for the team," said Vergne in a Q&A issued by Toro Rosso on Thursday.

"We have similar driving styles and we get on well and that will be a positive factor for us next year.

"Dan could probably have a slight edge over me at first as he has done 11 races this year, but let's see how it develops, as we have all the winter testing ahead of us before we start racing.

"I know that I have a lot to learn, so I hope I can do that quickly. I am conscious it could be very tough, but I also know that in general, I learn and I adapt very quickly: certainly that was the case in every category that I have raced in so far. Formula 1 is different, tougher than all the rest, but I feel confident."

Vergne has already done some running in Red Bull Racing's simulator to get himself more acquainted with F1, while he plans to spend some proper time at Toro Rosso's Faenza factory after the Christmas holidays.

"I've got quite a few questions going round in my head, so it will be good to get to Italy and discuss everything calmly before it's time to get in the cockpit again," he said.


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96760

What is obviously to be expected.

#54 goingthedistance

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:21

I don't know. With a full pre-season of testing under his belt I'm not sure he can say that. The key thing with the races is to learn how the different tyres feel and behave in long-run conditions. The only difference will be pressure situation of a race and driving wheel to wheel in an F1 race. The main thing Daniel seemed to learn at HRT was how to deal with constantly being lapped, which won't be as relevant at STR.

Edited by goingthedistance, 15 December 2011 - 16:21.


#55 nimbus111

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:23

this is gonna be a hamilton-alonso mclaren on steroids.

#56 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:28

We're 3 months away from next season and already we have an "at each other's throats" thread - Can't we wait at least till the end of the first practice session before the two factions start slagging each other off...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 15 December 2011 - 16:29.


#57 senna da silva

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:28

Vergne says Ricciardo will have the early edge:


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/96760

What is obviously to be expected.


Very astute political comments by JEV. He's lowering expectations on himself and pushing Danny Ricky to the forefront and pumping up the Australian before tearing him down. The head games begin.

#58 Jaybools

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:33

Reminds me of a quote from a senna clip where they were talking about the charity race in a bunch of 190e's at nurburgring. He basically said, that everyone else was ragged, cutting the track, getting right up high on the kerbs. Compared to senna who was just using a little bit here and there and leaving a bit on the table, yet still outshone everyone.

Sorry to start the senna comparisons, but all im saying is that ascanellis view can be right and wrong - the "ragged" should be tempered, and is by no means a guarantee of success

#59 Jaybools

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:36


We're 3 months away from next season and already we have an "at each other's throats" thread - Can't we wait at least till the end of the first practice session before the two factions start slagging each other off...


I laughed unreasonably hard at this because I know it's true :rotfl:

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#60 senna da silva

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:50

Vergne gets up the inside, has the racing line and gives Wickens plenty of space, Wickens rides over the kerb and into Vergne. Wickens couldve quite easily gotten out of the throttle and slotted in directly behind Vergne.


Vergne had already hit Wickens twice in the first corner and then squeezed Robert off the track in the second corner. Vergne's fault, but can be chalked up to a racing incident. The right guy won the Championship.  ;)

It will be a good fight between Danny Ricky and JEV in 2012, if either stands out they should be able to expect a 2013 ride with RBR.

#61 Kvothe

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 17:06

If these two pages, are anything to go by this thread is going to be hot, and by the end of the season undoubtedly bitter, I can't believe someone's already posted pictures lol
The excitement and talk that is being generated already seems to be exceeding that of Seb and Jaime, which sadly indicates that the right decision was made.


As for who i'll be supporting? I'm leaning towards Daniel if only because he seems like a genuinely nice and grounded guy, and since I support Lewis and KK, i don't want to be a fan of another aggressive driver and wonder if said driver will finish said race. In reality, whichever one impresses me the most in Melbourne i'lll no doubt end up clinging to, and defending/making excuses :D

Edited by Kvothe, 15 December 2011 - 17:08.


#62 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:46

I don't know. With a full pre-season of testing under his belt I'm not sure he can say that. The key thing with the races is to learn how the different tyres feel and behave in long-run conditions. The only difference will be pressure situation of a race and driving wheel to wheel in an F1 race. The main thing Daniel seemed to learn at HRT was how to deal with constantly being lapped, which won't be as relevant at STR.


Pre-season testing isn't going to provide Vergne with the racing experience, even lapping endlessly in a simulator in 'races' can't provide that, he will of gain that once they reach Melbourne whereas Ricciardo has 11 races experience of what little racing can be done in an HRT.

That added experience for Ricciardo will only buy Vergne a short amount of goodwill. If he's still talking about Ricciardo's extra experience in Canada, he's in trouble.

#63 jamiegc

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:55

The real question now is how will Coulthard slaughter Vergne's name.

Weve already had:

Vet-ell
Bwem-eee
Alg-urr-swa-ree
Rich-ee-arr-do

Its surely going to be Vurr-nay

#64 PNSD

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:57

Ricciardo being slow at getting up to speed was something pretty clear last year... Hopefully he has learnt enough though to be about to get out there in the STR and be quick.

Ive seen a few races of JEV, and I was more impressed with what I saw than I ever was with Ricciardo. I think ill be tending toward JEV.

Either way, neither look like the next Vettel or Lewis. On that, you have to say Lewis has raised the bar for rookies. Lewis was as quick as Alonso after 4, 5 races? Lewis has made judging rookies a whole lot harder for us, and for themselves. Likewise Vettel from the get go was visibly quick and you knew he would be big. If these guys are going to be anywhere near as good we will know it fairly soon IMO.

Edited by PNSD, 15 December 2011 - 18:59.


#65 stanga

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:58

The real question now is how will Coulthard slaughter Vergne's name.

Weve already had:

Vet-ell
Bwem-eee
Alg-urr-swa-ree
Rich-ee-arr-do

Its surely going to be Vurr-nay


Who cares.

#66 hammibal

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:29

Regardless of actual talent or real life speed, a Euro driver will always trump an Aussie.

I suspect Dan to initially cream JEV....then, mysterious bad starts, stolen front wings and shithouse pit stop strategy will start creeping in for poor Dan.

/cynical.

Nice to see the gratitude you're showing to Red Bull for sponsoring your compatriat all the way to F1 even sacking 2 euro drivers to get him there :confused:

Also how stupid is Webber to resign with a team that is deliberately sabotaging him?

:down: :down: :down:

#67 GregAU

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:15

Nice to see the gratitude you're showing to Red Bull for sponsoring your compatriat all the way to F1 even sacking 2 euro drivers to get him there :confused:


haha yes you have a fair point putting it that way :)

#68 JimmyRecard

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 02:23

Im leaning towards Ricciardo in this battle although that may be pure patriotism. There's nothing wrong with being mega quick without being ragged, Button has made a very nice career out of it.

#69 gillesthegenius

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 03:40

Q & A with Daniel Ricciardo
Q & A with Jean-Eric Vergne

#70 senna da silva

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:22

Is that the same JEV who lost to his teammate in WSR ?


Yes, and I'm pissed that Robert won't be on the grid next year!

#71 faaaz

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:40

Dan certainly seems nicer bloke to have around than JEV lol.

#72 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:51

Marko told Alguersuari they are looking for a driver who can transcend the car and put in a special performance, not a driver who can constantly do 'decent' jobs.

Marko might have quite a collection of "idiot of the month" awards indeed. I wonder if DM has created the award specifically? One "Red Bull extreme sportsperson of the month" award for you, and one "idiot Red Bull bureaucrat of the month" for you ol' chap. :)


Even the mighty Schumacher failed to do this all season long... Not a single bleeding podium let alone a win and in a better car. How exactly is JA supposed to fare...
Rubens "smashed" Schumi on this point. Rubens took a podium in a bleeding backmarker Honda car usually glued to P18 for Pete's sake. HM considers Rubens a better driver than Schumi I guess...

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 16 December 2011 - 04:54.


#73 Mastah

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 05:49

PaulHembery Paul Hembery
“@Jake_PFC12:what do you think of the new STR line up?” impressed with Vergne at young driver , Ricciardo need to believe in himself IMHO



#74 goingthedistance

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 13:40

Hembrey seems to have an opinion about everyone in F1. But he's a tyres guy, how much can he really know?

I don't think Ricciardo's problem is self-belief, I think it's more the need to develop a killer instinct. He's too nice. Marko doesn't like nice, he likes super aggressive.

#75 GregAU

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 06:17

Alot of people seem to think JEV is the better choice of the 2 new drivers but (and I'm being serious here)...what has he done?

Lots of talk of a potential Senna v2 if Dan can overcome some sort "mr nice guy" disorder, but Vergne...never heard of him until the last YDT, and his results there weren't even as dramatic as DRs the year before.

#76 FTATRWeSaluteYou

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 06:24

Paul Hembery what an idiot.

Does he remember the young driver test the year before? Clearly he doesnt have a clue.

I hope both of them are around for a long time. Can see these two having some epic title fights with Perez and Vettel.

#77 Jaybools

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 07:35

Either way I hope Dan gives an absolute walloping to Vergne, however I expect it to be tight...

Plus Hembrey would probably know quite a bit, as he would have access to ALL teams telemetry, their thoughts etc. so its not so far fetched to think this is the truth. However I do remember reading an interview with Dan prior to the 2011 season, where he said his number one aim was to not crash in FP1. Thus I don't think his pace in those FP's were really indicative of true pace since he would've been taking some margin to not crash, which is a respectable decision. Hopefully we'll see him rag on it a bit in the first quali, especially after all the pre-season tests. Unfortunately we cannot tell if he was really going 100% in quali at Hispania since we have shithouse coverage of the backmarkers.. But I'm sure he was trying pretty hard.

Edited by Jaybools, 17 December 2011 - 07:38.


#78 jamiegc

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:02

Alot of people seem to think JEV is the better choice of the 2 new drivers but (and I'm being serious here)...what has he done?

Lots of talk of a potential Senna v2 if Dan can overcome some sort "mr nice guy" disorder, but Vergne...never heard of him until the last YDT, and his results there weren't even as dramatic as DRs the year before.


Vergne won British F3, then runner up in WSR last season - basically an identical career path as Ricciardo. Vergne also outscored Ricciardo in his 6 race stint as Ricciardo's Tech 2 teammate.

I dont think anyone is going to honestly try and big up Vergne or Ricciardo as the new Senna, theyre both decent young drivers though.

As for YDT, you cannot read anything into times achieved there.

#79 Jaybools

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:51

Vergne won British F3, then runner up in WSR last season - basically an identical career path as Ricciardo. Vergne also outscored Ricciardo in his 6 race stint as Ricciardo's Tech 2 teammate.

I dont think anyone is going to honestly try and big up Vergne or Ricciardo as the new Senna, theyre both decent young drivers though.

As for YDT, you cannot read anything into times achieved there.


You need to stop using that example as a reason Vergne may be superior. Ricciardo had a DNF in Silverstone, where Vergne inherited that win due to his DNF and Guerrieri DQ'd, plus Ricciardo's oil leak in the final race.
Agree with the rest, however.

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#80 jamiegc

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 09:37

You need to stop using that example as a reason Vergne may be superior. Ricciardo had a DNF in Silverstone, where Vergne inherited that win due to his DNF and Guerrieri DQ'd, plus Ricciardo's oil leak in the final race.
Agree with the rest, however.


I dont recall saying it made Vergne better than Ricciardo, someone asked what Vergne had accomplished and ultimately it is a fact that he outscored Ricciardo as a teammate.

Paul di Resta outscored Vettel in 06 and spends his days telling everyone who will listen about it, so we know that it means little what happened a few years back.

#81 v@sh

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:25

You try to big up Vergne by stating that he outscored Ricciardo as a team-mate but you don't mention prior series. It is also a fact then that Ricciardo also outscored Vergne in Formula Renault 2.0 when they were team-mates.

Ultimately who cares. Former series means little when it comes to how good you are in F1 even if you are team-mates. Find out what next year holds before giving impressions that Vergne may be superior purely based on a WSR stint.

#82 marcoferrari

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 13:08

Now they both know how the Young Driver Programme operates... I guess, if they won't achieve a win or a podium in two-three years, they will be in a same situation as the recent duo... Marko's expectations are simply unrealistic and he seems to ignore the facts about speed of the car... But if one of these two should replace the already useless Mark Webber, I wouldn t mind to see Daniel there... But I suspect the new wonderboy of Mr. Marko is called Jean-Eric Vergne... He has the same sort of arrogance as Helmut and that s probably what he likes on him...

Edited by marcoferrari, 17 December 2011 - 13:10.


#83 Bloggsworth

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 13:31

Vergne wasn't good enough to win the World Series by Renault - Guess Wickens is wondering what he has to do to get a seat, he's wasting his time, life ain't fair...

#84 TeamSideways

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 16:05

Vergne wasn't good enough to win the World Series by Renault - Guess Wickens is wondering what he has to do to get a seat, he's wasting his time, life ain't fair...


he should be more presentable ,more corroborative and more cash magnet to be a F1 driver this will help him a lot in races

#85 Szoelloe

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 16:13

I hope JEV falls flat on his face, and will be owned by DR. He is an arrogant ****. Just so I can have a good laugh at Marko.

#86 noikeee

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 18:20

Vergne wasn't good enough to win the World Series by Renault - Guess Wickens is wondering what he has to do to get a seat, he's wasting his time, life ain't fair...


Robert Wickens is a very good driver, I have had an eye on him since his A1GP days where he impressed me a lot, he did well to recover from a bad stint in F3 Euroseries and subsequently being dumped by Red Bull, to go to win such a prestigious series like WSR.

But the fact is he has tons more experience than Vergne as he has been around at that level for much longer - yet they were nearly equal in points this year. He should be in F1, but certainly not at Vergne's expense.

#87 jamiegc

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 18:39

Vergne wasn't good enough to win the World Series by Renault - Guess Wickens is wondering what he has to do to get a seat, he's wasting his time, life ain't fair...


Wickens did some commentary for the BBC and said that it's incredibly difficult to get Canadian companies to back him.

Ultimately with him not being in any teams network albeit with minimal Marussia support he needs to put together a large financial package to gain a seat.

As said above, Wickens had 21 WSR race starts (with Carlin) compared to Vergne's 6 (Tech 2) entering the WSR season.

#88 goingthedistance

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 19:41

I'm a big fan of Wickens, would love to see him in F1.

#89 gillesthegenius

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 03:11

Dan on JEV:

He's got potential and he's quick. We drive quite similar but he has probably what I don't have in the aggressive side. So maybe I can learn from him, at least in the junior categories that's been his style.



#90 dau

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 13:24

Vergne wasn't good enough to win the World Series by Renault - Guess Wickens is wondering what he has to do to get a seat, he's wasting his time, life ain't fair...

No it isn't. But as has been noted a number of times already, Wickens was in his second full WSbR season while Vergne was in his first. So while your statement is correct in itself, it is also useless to prove Wickens' worth over Vergne's.

Edited by dau, 29 December 2011 - 13:25.


#91 gillesthegenius

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 13:28

No it isn't. But as has been noted a number of times already, Wickens was in his second full WSbR season while Vergne was in his first. So while your statement is correct in itself, it is also useless to prove Wickens' worth over Vergne's.


Yup. Thats right.

#92 Bloggsworth

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 13:32

Ricciardo owned Vergne today. Oh no, of course, nothing happened, there's been no racing yet, but let not that fact stand in the way of a good slanging match...

#93 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 14:14

Ricciardo being slow at getting up to speed was something pretty clear last year...

This just isn't true at all. By his 2nd race, Ricciardo was matching Liuzzi for qualifying pace. By the ItalianGP, he was starting to outqualify him.

This wouldn't mean much on its own, but his race pace was where he really shined. There's no comparison to be made in Monza, where Liuzzi didn't complete the race, but in Singapore, Ricciardo just plain blew Liuzzi away in the race(as well as outqualifying him by 4 tenths). In Suzuka, Ricciardo was again miles faster in the race. He was much quicker in Korea. In India, Karthikeyan took over Liuzzi's seat(and finished ahead due to Ricciardo needing an extra stop).

In Abu Dhabi, the times were much closer between Liuzzi and Ricciardo, though Dan was ahead in the race when he retired.

In Brazil, Ricciardo had Glock in front of him for the whole first stint, slowing him up. After Glock retired, though, Dan resumed being the quicker out of he and Liuzzi, although Liuzzi would be ahead when he retired.

Still, all in all, you can hardly say this is 'slow to get up to speed'. By the end of the season, I think Ricciardo showed to be the better driver. In fact, he probably showed this by Monza/Singapore. Apart from the first race, Dan was ahead everytime they both finished a GP, too.

I'd been hearing Dan talk about how he was quicker than Liuzzi in Autosport articles and everything, but didn't quite pay it much attention because it was kinda hard to follow the HRT's in the race. But I went back and looked at the FIA timing and when Dan says he was quicker than Liuzzi, he's being modest. The times suggest he was a good deal quicker on many occasions.

For somebody who was thrown in mid-season to a terrible car, I'd say he's done a magnificent job and I think Vergne will have to be on top of his game to beat Dan this coming season.

#94 goingthedistance

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 16:19

I see Berger is in the press talking up Vergne today, as the special one of the two. If I didn't know better I'd think the Austrian connection had deliberately paired Vergne with another rookie to give him a better chance to shine and nab that RB9 seat.

Not sure why but it annoys me the way Marko and Berger always talk up the drivers that are aggressive rather than looking at the whole package.

#95 jamiegc

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 17:35

I see Berger is in the press talking up Vergne today, as the special one of the two. If I didn't know better I'd think the Austrian connection had deliberately paired Vergne with another rookie to give him a better chance to shine and nab that RB9 seat.

Not sure why but it annoys me the way Marko and Berger always talk up the drivers that are aggressive rather than looking at the whole package.


If Marko desperately wants to put Vergne into Red Bull then he will do so, regardless of his results at STR.

#96 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 17:41

If Marko desperately wants to put Vergne into Red Bull then he will do so, regardless of his results at STR.


I am not so sure about that, he is n fan of Webber, and MW is still there. If it was up to Marko, Webber would not be there by now.


#97 goingthedistance

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 17:54

Marko cannot place a driver at RBR at will IMO, they need to show they deserve it, and build a reputation. I can't imagine Newey accepting any old driver, for example. Marko can facilitate that display, however. Having Marko's emotional support is a big deal IMO, though Buemi had it for a while and failed to capitalise on it.

I could be incorrect, but my perception is that Horner is partial to Ricciardo (I suspect the product of his strong setup reputation, smooth driving style and laid-back personality - Horner hates public conflict) and Marko is more of an advocate of Vergne. Marko has more say, but he's not the absolute power.

Edited by goingthedistance, 29 December 2011 - 17:54.


#98 Aqualung

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 17:59

IMO those of you who already hate one or the other before they've even really come to F1 should probably be watching soap operas instead.

#99 jamiegc

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 18:05

Marko cannot place a driver at RBR at will IMO, they need to show they deserve it, and build a reputation. I can't imagine Newey accepting any old driver, for example. Marko can facilitate that display, however. Having Marko's emotional support is a big deal IMO, though Buemi had it for a while and failed to capitalise on it.

I could be incorrect, but my perception is that Horner is partial to Ricciardo (I suspect the product of his strong setup reputation, smooth driving style and laid-back personality - Horner hates public conflict) and Marko is more of an advocate of Vergne. Marko has more say, but he's not the absolute power.


If Marko was truly desperate for Vergne to be the next RB driver, he wouldve kept Buemi or Alguersuari (drivers he deemed not good enough) and if he beat them use their experience as proof of Vergne's ability.

As it is, Marko has given both their young drivers a chance to show what they can do. Personally I dont think Webber will be going anywhere in 2013 though.

As for Horner, ultimately he wants to win the WCC and to have the drivers to do so from within the programme. Despite people's belief that Vettel is the be all and end all for RB, I highly doubt Horner would turn down a young driver that looked like they could trouble him.

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#100 goingthedistance

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 18:21

IMO those of you who already hate one or the other before they've even really come to F1 should probably be watching soap operas instead.


I like both of them. Hate Helmut Marko though.