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Ricciardo VS Vergne - 2012


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#301 iotar

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 16:27

After 3 races they are already matching the best results achieved by the previous duo.Not 3 years 3 races.

Buemi and Algy were not getting the most out of the car and not up to f1 standards.


This thread is full of hopeless battles with reality. I applaud particularly this one. Although the explanation that Vergne knowing that qualifying is not that crucial this year decided not to get out of Q1 on a regular basis is nice, too.

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#302 Snic

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 16:41

Wish we could see an onboard of DR's lap, reckon he was the best performer on the day

#303 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 16:46

Wish we could see an onboard of DR's lap, reckon he was the best performer on the day

I would agree with that, but remember Kovalainen?

Both pretty incredible performances, though. Grosjean's Q1 lap on the mediums was also extremely impressive.

#304 smoothcrim

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 17:46

This thread is full of hopeless battles with reality. I applaud particularly this one. Although the explanation that Vergne knowing that qualifying is not that crucial this year decided not to get out of Q1 on a regular basis is nice, too.




TR have lost nothing by replacing their old drivers,even at this early stage.Algy qualified in 18th in 2010 bahrain race even after having 8 races under his belt the previous year.

They have scored more points after 3 races than the old pairing managed in 2 years together,at the same stage of the season.The scope for improvement is huge

I'll leave u to your "reality".

Edited by smoothcrim, 21 April 2012 - 17:50.


#305 sosidge

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 20:34

Stunning performance by Ricciardo - not just the position, but the laptime in Q3.

Vergne seemed unhappy when interviewed on 5live - and that was during Q2. He's probably bewildered right now. 2 seconds gap (albeit in different sessions) is unheard of in current F1.

#306 krapmeister

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 23:09

Considering how fast the track was evolving I don't think 2secs difference between Vergne's Q1 time and Ricciardo's time in Q3 is too shocking - what was more telling IMO was the 1 sec difference between them in Q1 when the track was pretty much the same for both of them...

#307 smoothcrim

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 23:15

Vergne reverted the car back to the old spec in China were as Ricci stuck with the new spec,got the data and made it work for him in Bahrain.Thats what it looks like to me anyway.I think Ricci may be more comfortable on the technical circuits aswell,very much in the Vettel mold.

Its to early to judge Vergne,give him 10 races.

#308 goldenboy

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 23:24

Vergne reverted the car back to the old spec in China were as Ricci stuck with the new spec,got the data and made it work for him in Bahrain.Thats what it looks like to me anyway.I think Ricci may be more comfortable on the technical circuits aswell,very much in the Vettel mold.

Its to early to judge Vergne,give him 10 races.

yep

#309 Jaybools

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:26

Vergne reverted the car back to the old spec in China were as Ricci stuck with the new spec,got the data and made it work for him in Bahrain.Thats what it looks like to me anyway.I think Ricci may be more comfortable on the technical circuits aswell,very much in the Vettel mold.

Its to early to judge Vergne,give him 10 races.


Vergne used DR's setup (at least post FP2)

#310 faaaz

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:22

Kind of makes Vergne's comment about Webber last year a bit childish... and Ricciardo is pretty much proving that Vergne is still childish in F1 termsl. But yes, I agree...probably need a few more races before we can judge him.

#311 DILLIGAF

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:25

Great performance today by Dan and obviously has the upper hand over Vergne in qualy so far, but it is only 3 and a half races into the season so I wouldn't be writing the frenchie off just yet...


+1

#312 williams96

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:03

After China I certainly wasn't expecting a top ten qualifying result let alone 6th! Can't wait to see the lap.

With the results Vergne has achieved pre-F1 only a fool would count him out so early.



#313 slideways

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:26

Looks like we have another generation of fanboys coming onboard here with Dan.

I have followed him closely the last few years (as I'm sure most Aussies have), and am hoping he'll continue to move forwards with Red Bull but only an idiot would write off JEV's performances so far.

Dan has a year more experience on all of the F1 tracks including a dozen HRT races, and has very quickly gone from a solid place as the goldenboy of Red Bull / upcoming rookies to having a real fight on his hands to stay in F1. If JEV matches or beats him by the end of the year RBR may pull their backing, and I doubt there is a place for him on the grid without them, at least yet.

#314 faaaz

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:46

Yeah too early to call the Ricciardo and Vergne battle...but sufficient evidence to say that Vergne is still primitive, he may yet beat Ricciardo by the end of the year, but atm Dan has his measure. This is the same Vergne who thought he was as good as seasoned professional such as Mark Webber. What a tool...I sincerely hope Dan wipes the floor with this bloke by the end of the year. Probably won't happen, but I still hope. :p

#315 Redback

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:52

Looks like we have another generation of fanboys coming onboard here with Dan.

I have followed him closely the last few years (as I'm sure most Aussies have), and am hoping he'll continue to move forwards with Red Bull but only an idiot would write off JEV's performances so far.

Dan has a year more experience on all of the F1 tracks including a dozen HRT races, and has very quickly gone from a solid place as the goldenboy of Red Bull / upcoming rookies to having a real fight on his hands to stay in F1. If JEV matches or beats him by the end of the year RBR may pull their backing, and I doubt there is a place for him on the grid without them, at least yet.

What :rolleyes: ever...

#316 krapmeister

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 13:58

Jesus - Dan dropped like a stone on the first lap. Shades of Webber at Valencia a couple of years ago.

Hero to Zero today, Vergne again ahead at the finish - but both cars still finishing only 14/15th. Obviously yesterday the car had pace, perhaps the lower temps worked against them a bit?

#317 goldenboy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:01

honestly, I feel sorry for the team after that.

#318 TFLB

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:07

So, Vergne beat Ricciardo in the race (where it matters) for the third time in four races. Where are all the Ricciardo fanboys now?

#319 smoothcrim

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:15

Looks like they had a good car over 1 lap but no race pace.Also Ricci damaged his car.Shit happens,look for improvement next race.

Look forward to hearing what ricci said.

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#320 marcoferrari

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 14:33

Now 4:0 for Ricciardo in qualifying and 3:1 for Vergne in race... :lol:
Today was really tragic from both... I guess battles with Petrov in Caterham were not expected...
Such a shame that Alguersuari couldn t stay to battle with Ricciardo... :|
Beating him in race doesn t look too difficult... :)

#321 Disgrace

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 15:31

Ricciardo blew it unfortunately. His start wasn't good but not terrible, but he was absolutely beaten up afterwards. He was already behind Vergne by the end of lap one, and he was also the one who clipped the Caterham on that first lap. Hero to zero.

Edited by Disgrace, 22 April 2012 - 15:32.


#322 Jaybools

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 00:15

I'm sure Ricciardo has an issue in the races and isn't just slow. Last year his race performances far outshone his qualifying.. Weird.

Edited by Jaybools, 23 April 2012 - 00:15.


#323 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 00:20

Last year his race performances far outshone his qualifying.. Weird.

It is a bit weird. I think after all the pressure from qualifying so high and then having a bad start while having less fresh tires at his disposal compared to his teammate really combined to make a disasterous race for the guy.

#324 Meanbeakin

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 00:21

Daniel Ricciardo - 15th
"That was not what I was hoping for after starting from sixth on the grid. The opening lap changed my whole race. My initial launch off the line wasn't great and after that I seemed to go backwards, which made for a very frustrating afternoon. The front wing damage also made matters worse. I had a good chance to have a strong race today, but losing all those places at the start cost me dear. I need to be hard on myself now and find out what I did wrong to make sure I don't do it again. It was a race to forget."

Sounds like it was just a Webber in Valencia 2010 kind've thing. Regardless his Q3 lap shows the potential is there, he just needs to put it all together in the race.

#325 packapoo

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:05

Aussies are traditionally slow to wake up. :rotfl:

#326 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:19

Aussies are traditionally slow to wake up. :rotfl:

Really though, he got up-to-speed incredibly quick last year in HRT. And like JayBools said, he was actually most impressive in the race. I dont think a lot of people actually payed attention cuz of the lack of coverage, but Ricciardo was pretty phenomenal for a rookie thrown in mid-season. There were a few races where he made Liuzzi look like the rookie.

#327 AdHoc

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:07

Vergne said very realistically that he knows he's too slow in qualifying. Once he'll have fixed this, then it will be perfect driver-wise.

Edited by AdHoc, 23 April 2012 - 07:07.


#328 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 14:03

Now 4:0 for Ricciardo in qualifying and 3:1 for Vergne in race... :lol:


Racecraft you can learn, speed's either there or it isnt.

Vettel failed to finish his first 4 races in 2008 through incidents....

#329 jamiegc

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 20:12

Vergne said very realistically that he knows he's too slow in qualifying. Once he'll have fixed this, then it will be perfect driver-wise.


Vergne has over his career to date never been particularly sparkling qualifying wise and said that the car was all over the place in Qualifying for Bahrain. Car seemed pretty decent in the race so god knows what setup wise wouldve caused that.

Certainly looks an interesting battle between them.

To add to this I still dont personally buy into either of them getting a RB seat for next season barring something phenomenal like a race win. RB have nobody ready yet to step up to the TR seat, Tost has repeatedly stated you need 2 years to properly evaluate any driver and Webber is a very safe pair of hands for the 2013 development before throwing a 'rookie' in for the new 2014 regs as they did with Vettel in 09.

Edited by jamiegc, 23 April 2012 - 20:18.


#330 williams96

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:39

Another disaster of a race! Ricciardo is too used to starting from towards the back and being cautious (perhaps after events of Australia?), but plenty of drivers have struggled at the start after their best qualifying result.

I personally don't understand why being unable to put together a competitive qualifying lap is any more forgiveable than being unable to put together a clean start. They are both rookies and it's these very weekends which will give them the experience and opportunity to learn and mature as drivers.

Reading some comments you'd think Vergne was constantly binning it in qualifying and Ricciardo was consistently being lapped by him in the race. Reality is take away Vergne's qualifying problems and Ricciardo's start issues and you have two drivers who are currently very close on pace.

#331 GhostR

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:10

Ricciardo got a shocker off the line and just went backwards. Assuming at some point he got hung out to dry on the dusty parts of the track, which would explain where the front wing damage came from as well.

He'll learn from this, I think, and become a much stronger driver through the rest of the season. He'll need to, as he can't keep throwing away his better qually results and giving Vergne the better race results.

#332 Pamphlet

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:48

Ricciardo had a horrible start and had to pit for a new front wing, so a combination of those ruined his race.

Barring that, they're pretty much evenly matched, with JEV being a little more consistent and Daniel having the potential to do better.

Edited by Pamphlet, 24 April 2012 - 09:49.


#333 danstheman

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:24

Worthwhile reading Dan's blog with his thought on the race...seems really gutted to me and determined to make amends.

http://www.redbull.c...021243200326794

It seems he was stuck on the inside to the first corner and hit the brakes slightly too early, which meant have the field shot around the outside. He also makes the point that in gunning for Q3 he burned up his tyres whilst those behind had better tyres, which makes a difference on that first lap I guess

#334 Cavani

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 13:41

Posted Image

i watched the start of bahrain and noticed that ricciardo has "Kullna Khalifa" which is a campaign to celebrate national day at UAE , didnt know that toro rosso is that Emirates-ish ,

Edited by Cavani, 04 May 2012 - 13:42.


#335 krapmeister

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:01

Posted Image

i watched the start of bahrain and noticed that ricciardo has "Kullna Khalifa" which is a campaign to celebrate national day at UAE , didnt know that toro rosso is that Emirates-ish ,


I don't know if has officially happened or not but TR was rumoured to be bought by or perhaps a percentage of the team bought by UAE based Aabar Investments, who own Falcon Private Bank...

#336 Cavani

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:12

I don't know if has officially happened or not but TR was rumoured to be bought by or perhaps a percentage of the team bought by UAE based Aabar Investments, who own Falcon Private Bank...

i knew that UAE has a percentage of the team but with that advertising i think we can classify torro rosso as an emirati team , which is a first i think that a team whose majority percentage of ownership belongs to the middle east

#337 krapmeister

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:44

i knew that UAE has a percentage of the team but with that advertising i think we can classify torro rosso as an emirati team , which is a first i think that a team whose majority percentage of ownership belongs to the middle east


Well I don't know about that - on signage alone you would think that TR is an Austrian or Thai F1 team... ;) :lol:

FWIW Aabar own 40% of Mercedes GP as well, and Bahrain's Mumtalakat own 50% of Mclaren - it may be that they own a large percentage or share ownership 50/50 with Red Bull. TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see a small sticker like that on the car/helmet in deference to a part owner or major sponsor if a race is effectively in their own backyard...

Edited by krapmeister, 05 May 2012 - 11:44.


#338 Cavani

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:58

Well I don't know about that - on signage alone you would think that TR is an Austrian or Thai F1 team...;) :lol:

FWIW Aabar own 40% of Mercedes GP as well, and Bahrain's Mumtalakat own 50% of Mclaren - it may be that they own a large percentage or share ownership 50/50 with Red Bull. TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see a small sticker like that on the car/helmet in deference to a part owner or major sponsor if a race is effectively in their own backyard...


that might be it


#339 jamiegc

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:42

If I am correct (which there is every chance im not) its now 4-1 Vergne in races and 3-2 Ricciardo in qualifying?

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#340 GregAU

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 23:16

DR is fast blowing his chances here...Vergne seems to now have him completely covered off.
5 races in and we all expected DR to have the initial advantage. He needs to lift his game.

#341 Brandz07

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:14

@GregoryHainesF1

'Okay regarding Vergne, it's nothing about his future. Possible tyre mix-up during the race yesterday. Looking into it now. #F1'

---

Not sure if this is related but yesterday on the SkySportsF1 app twitter feed someone mentioned that it looked like Vergne was on 3 of one compound and 1 of the other..

#342 Brandz07

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 13:17

Indeed it was..

Posted Image

@PaulHembery -

“@surbjitzyphro: Torro Rosso mis-matched tyres. http://i38.fastpic.r...4ba4f0245b9.jpg NOT ALLOWED!” Our systems say no mixing just checked with @Mario_Isola

So a little confused.

Edited by Brandz07, 14 May 2012 - 13:18.


#343 sosidge

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:17

Indeed it was..

Posted Image

@PaulHembery -

“@surbjitzyphro: Torro Rosso mis-matched tyres. http://i38.fastpic.r...4ba4f0245b9.jpg NOT ALLOWED!” Our systems say no mixing just checked with @Mario_Isola

So a little confused.


Perhaps he got a big rub somewhere that took the paint off the tyre (or covered it with someone elses rubber).

I was pleased to see JEV put in a decent qualifying performance at last, but not much to learn from the race. Once again the two TR drivers seem quite evenly matched in a car that spends most of the race at the back of the established field. Plus ca change...

#344 Alarcon

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 14:45

Ricciardo had a horrible start and had to pit for a new front wing, so a combination of those ruined his race.

Barring that, they're pretty much evenly matched, with JEV being a little more consistent and Daniel having the potential to do better.



We must consider JEV is a rookie while Ricciardo isn´t... and he´s beating him. I expect next season JEV will be much confident and will beat DR.




#345 jamiegc

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 17:11

@GregoryHainesF1

'Okay regarding Vergne, it's nothing about his future. Possible tyre mix-up during the race yesterday. Looking into it now. #F1'

---

Not sure if this is related but yesterday on the SkySportsF1 app twitter feed someone mentioned that it looked like Vergne was on 3 of one compound and 1 of the other..


Hembery has confirmed it was softs all round and that teams put their own markings on the tyres after being given them so its a soft with the wrong markings on.

#346 Brandz07

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 17:27

Hembery has confirmed it was softs all round and that teams put their own markings on the tyres after being given them so its a soft with the wrong markings on.


Awesome, makes more sense. It'd be a pretty stupid mistake otherwise.

#347 krapmeister

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 22:40

Not sure what Vergne's form is like at Monaco, but considering how well Dan has gone there in the past if he is going to have a good weekend then it has to be here...

#348 Afterburner

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:10

Posted Image

A bit off-topic, but was I the only one who noticed that, in addition to the supposedly mis-matched tyres, the telemetry across the bottom of the screen is showing Vettel as the leader while he's running in seventh? :drunk:

#349 Zava

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:15

A bit off-topic, but was I the only one who noticed that, in addition to the supposedly mis-matched tyres, the telemetry across the bottom of the screen is showing Vettel as the leader while he's running in seventh? :drunk:

it is because the telemetry is used to Vettel leading the pack and is confused.

#350 jamiegc

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:50

A bit off-topic, but was I the only one who noticed that, in addition to the supposedly mis-matched tyres, the telemetry across the bottom of the screen is showing Vettel as the leader while he's running in seventh? :drunk:


The telemetry was all over the shop all weekend. The support races didnt have any telemetry.

Not sure what Vergne's form is like at Monaco, but considering how well Dan has gone there in the past if he is going to have a good weekend then it has to be here...


Vergne has only driven at Monaco once, qualified and finished down the grid so would expect Ricciardo to outqualify and outfinish him there.