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Ricciardo VS Vergne - 2012


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#351 krapmeister

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:31

Vergne has only driven at Monaco once, qualified and finished down the grid so would expect Ricciardo to outqualify and outfinish him there.


Well although it is expected, I hope he doesn't put too much pressure on himself to perform in Monaco - I would like to see him have a good weekend there...

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#352 aifol

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 15:11

@GregoryHainesF1
'Okay regarding Vergne, it's nothing about his future. Possible tyre mix-up during the race yesterday. Looking into it now. #F1'
---
Not sure if this is related but yesterday on the SkySportsF1 app twitter feed someone mentioned that it looked like Vergne was on 3 of one compound and 1 of the other..


Same thing on Senna's car, you can see it on the pictures of the accident with Schumacher.
Must be just the result of a contact with another car, it's just fragile paint.

#353 AdHoc

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:11

Vergne has only driven at Monaco once, qualified and finished down the grid so would expect Ricciardo to outqualify and outfinish him there.


This is really NOT significative. You look like you're just discovering F1 now, which I'm sure you're not.

#354 RF1 fan

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:20

The telemetry was all over the shop all weekend. The support races didnt have any telemetry.



Vergne has only driven at Monaco once, qualified and finished down the grid so would expect Ricciardo to outqualify and outfinish him there.


Well he finished 8th on track but he had a 10 sec penalty.

Moreover he had to go back on thursday to friday for simulator work.

Edited by RF1 fan, 15 May 2012 - 16:21.


#355 jamiegc

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:21

This is really NOT significative. You look like you're just discovering F1 now, which I'm sure you're not.


I'm probably the biggest Vergne fan on here and of course in theory it shouldn't make a difference, but a driver who has won at a track their last two visits is likely to come into a weekend more confident than one whose only experience at the same track wasnt great.

#356 AdHoc

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 16:45

I think on the other hand that a) JEV is the kind of guy not giving a single s*** about the conditions he races in, he just drives, and b) if someone is less confident it must be Ricciardo, who doesn't seem able to get the upper hand on his teammate.

Anyway, having won here before or not doesn't change that the car is slow, so it's gonna be mid-pack racing @Monaco anyway.

Edited by AdHoc, 15 May 2012 - 16:45.


#357 goldenboy

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 19:56

I think on the other hand that a) JEV is the kind of guy not giving a single s*** about the conditions he races in, he just drives, and b) if someone is less confident it must be Ricciardo, who doesn't seem able to get the upper hand on his teammate.

Anyway, having won here before or not doesn't change that the car is slow, so it's gonna be mid-pack racing @Monaco anyway.

take it easy he was just pointing out the facts. It's probably ricciardos best track historically and vergne has only been here once with so so results.

#358 AdHoc

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:52

I just thought it is unfair to judge JEV on a "so so result" after only one race there.

My opinion: he will smash Ricciardo on this circuit even more than on the traditional venues.

Sorry for being so blunt, just defending my favourite under any circumstance :)

#359 BCM

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:56

I'm an aussie so I'm keen to see Dan get the upper hand on Vergne, but credit where credit is due. At the moment to me Vergne is looking like the better racer. Dan needs a good result in Monaco.

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#360 Disgrace

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:43

I'm an aussie so I'm keen to see Dan get the upper hand on Vergne, but credit where credit is due. At the moment to me Vergne is looking like the better racer. Dan needs a good result in Monaco.


This appears to be the case. At least Ricciardo has a lot of speed in qualifying, and it's only a question of refining his racing skills. The way I see it, is that JEV needs to get his qualifying act together in Monaco to stand any hope of beating Ricciardo in the race. Track position is still king.

Edited by Disgrace, 16 May 2012 - 14:43.


#361 jamiegc

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 14:39

Vergne faster in FP1 & FP2.

Set up perfectly for his usual Qualifying collapse :lol:

Edited by jamiegc, 24 May 2012 - 14:41.


#362 marcoferrari

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 17:54

Vergne faster in FP1 & FP2.

Set up perfectly for his usual Qualifying collapse :lol:


Exactly. :lol: He is always very close to say goodbye in q1... :)

Edited by marcoferrari, 26 May 2012 - 17:55.


#363 mdaclarke

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:41

Apart from first race Vergne has comfortably had the edge over Ricciardo.

#364 jamiegc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:52

Robbed today of 6 points. He changed off supersofts on lap 17 so would've had to reach the edge of the soft window at 61 laps but he had a decent gap and so no need for the team to put him on inters.

Ps Ricciardo lucky boy as he passed 6 cars at T1 by cutting the corner.

Edited by jamiegc, 27 May 2012 - 17:54.


#365 AdHoc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:03

Like I said, Ricciardo's experience won't make the difference against Vergne's raging skills.

He's just that kind of driver who feels in a natural environment in any car.

I predict he will rule Formula One in three years from now.

#366 jamiegc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:24

I'm a big fan of Vergne but it's far too early to say that.

#367 Zava

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:54

the tacticians are f*cking geniuses. I mean, seriously...

#368 AdHoc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:01

the tacticians are f*cking geniuses. I mean, seriously...


Actually, they were: he had to stop and wasn't going to score any point, so putting the inters was the right decision.

He basically could have won the race had it rained. But it didn't.

But what's important today was his race pace around Monaco: perfect.

#369 joshb

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:08

Actually, they were: he had to stop and wasn't going to score any point, so putting the inters was the right decision.

He basically could have won the race had it rained. But it didn't.

But what's important today was his race pace around Monaco: perfect.


was there any hope of him doing what Vettel did last year and just having a very wide car to defend. After all it would've needed 4 cars to pass him to deprive him of points

#370 jamiegc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:23

Actually, they were: he had to stop and wasn't going to score any point, so putting the inters was the right decision.

He basically could have won the race had it rained. But it didn't.

But what's important today was his race pace around Monaco: perfect.


No he didn't have to stop. He had used both tyres and had a huge gap to Di Resta.

Edited by jamiegc, 27 May 2012 - 19:23.


#371 AdHoc

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:47

No he didn't have to stop. He had used both tyres and had a huge gap to Di Resta.


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99949

#372 Sardukar

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:25

So vergne killed his tyres and was forced to 2 stop, yet apparently his monaco drive was perfect? come off it.

#373 danstheman

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:03

Dan did really well to run for the first 40 or so laps on super soft tyres!! But STR kept him out for a few laps too long which ruined his race as he lost many seconds per lap as they fell of the cliff...The same thing happened to Button.

The early stop and getting some clean air to put in faster laps was the best strategy with only 1 stop and no overtaking possible really

#374 GregAU

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:38

I'm not sure about the tacticians at STR at the moment.

The decisions being made seem to be skewing the results a bit towards Vergne...I'm not calling any favoritism conspiracies etc, but they seem to employ these radical race strategies because Vergne is usually qualifying so poorly. Then Dan gets owned by TERRIBLE strategy (his starts arent helping although Monaco was a decent start). I mean...why the heck keep him out for so long on SS tyres!!!! And then put JEV on Inters???? They seem to be trying TOO hard to take risks.

It really is ruining a possibly great inter team battle. I honestly dont know who is faster because both drivers (Dan more often than JEV) are being affected by these shithouse race strategies.
Really does suck for Dan though...no one cares about HOW a race result actually happened...they only care about the result itself and so far JEV is destroying DR's career in F1 pretty quickly.

FWIW at this stage I think that Dan still has a raw speed advantage....you just cannot ignore the qualifying results (unless you are Adhoc). JEV seems to be reaping the benefits of some pretty risky strat calls but how long can that last???

Edited by GregAU, 28 May 2012 - 03:42.


#375 AdHoc

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 04:50

So vergne killed his tyres and was forced to 2 stop, yet apparently his monaco drive was perfect? come off it.


Yeah, that's usually how Formula One works, mate.

#376 goldenboy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:49

I'm not sure about the tacticians at STR at the moment.

The decisions being made seem to be skewing the results a bit towards Vergne...I'm not calling any favoritism conspiracies etc, but they seem to employ these radical race strategies because Vergne is usually qualifying so poorly. Then Dan gets owned by TERRIBLE strategy (his starts arent helping although Monaco was a decent start). I mean...why the heck keep him out for so long on SS tyres!!!! And then put JEV on Inters???? They seem to be trying TOO hard to take risks.

It really is ruining a possibly great inter team battle. I honestly dont know who is faster because both drivers (Dan more often than JEV) are being affected by these shithouse race strategies.
Really does suck for Dan though...no one cares about HOW a race result actually happened...they only care about the result itself and so far JEV is destroying DR's career in F1 pretty quickly.

FWIW at this stage I think that Dan still has a raw speed advantage....you just cannot ignore the qualifying results (unless you are Adhoc). JEV seems to be reaping the benefits of some pretty risky strat calls but how long can that last???

theres no bias I feel, it's just that the more agressive strategy vergne has to take due to being behind in qually has more often than not worked out better than dans strategy. I still don't think there's anything between them.

I'm kinda waiting/hoping for dan to mess up his next qually and take the agressive approach!

#377 goldenboy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:51

Like I said, Ricciardo's experience won't make the difference against Vergne's raging skills.

He's just that kind of driver who feels in a natural environment in any car.

I predict he will rule Formula One in three years from now.

this kind of crap is just unneccessary. Most people here are a fan of both these guys, no need for ridiculous statements, you are just making yourself look stupid.

#378 goldenboy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:52

anyone know why dan had to retire?

also, I kinda like the gamble STR took with vergne at the end, go for gold!!

Edited by goldenboy, 28 May 2012 - 06:53.


#379 icecream

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:04

anyone know why dan had to retire?


the results page lists a steering issue.

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#380 slideways

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:05

this kind of crap is just unneccessary. Most people here are a fan of both these guys, no need for ridiculous statements, you are just making yourself look stupid.


Bit harsh ... he's entitled to his opinion, maybe he's even right who knows.

#381 danstheman

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:11

JEV was stuck behind Pic during the start of the race and was losing time. Pretty much exactly like everyone else stuck behind others e.g. Dan behind Di Resta, Button behind Kova etc.

Crucially the early pit stop gave him free air and he made up so much time that once everyone else pitted he jumped up into the top 10.

Granted, he showed good pace when he had clean air, but I have no doubt that Dan would have also put in a similar performance if he had the same strategy.

#382 goldenboy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:17

Bit harsh ... he's entitled to his opinion, maybe he's even right who knows.

as he really only praises his driver rather than tear other drivers down, I'll apologise.

sorry for being an a-hole, ad hoc :kiss:

#383 icecream

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:22

sorry for being an a-hole, ad hoc :kiss:


yeay, group hug!

for my money, ricciardo has been showing better raw pace, and i think this will count for more in the long term as he learns to keep his race together. vergne is certainly no slouch though, so will be interesting to see who comes out on top at the end.

#384 AdHoc

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:23

You're all right, I understand that taking such a radical position might be viewed as annoying, but I really believe Vergne is the next BIG star.

Just as some thought H├╝lkenberg or Vettel would be, for example ;)

I love Australia (I live in Melbourne) and I like Dan very much (he was very nice to me and even took some time to talk to me in the paddock), but I think he will get crushed. It happens sometimes in F1: a driver gets in the path of another monster and his career gets shaken up.

But you're right, I should be more careful, maybe I'm even wrong, who knows.

Edited by AdHoc, 28 May 2012 - 07:25.


#385 goldenboy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:25

:rotfl: maybe, who knows :lol:

#386 marcoferrari

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:14

Very poor showing from Vergne yesterday... His one lap pace is very often similar to drivers of Caterham. Ricciardo looks much much better on Saturday, but I wonder where dissapears his strong pace, when it matters at most - on race day...

#387 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:42

I predict he will rule Formula One in three years from now.


I predict if he keeps messing up his qualifying and ending up behind a pair of Caterhams, he wont be in Formula One in three years from now.

I'd rather have a fast driver that needs some racecraft coaching, than a slow driver who can reliably bringing the car home below where it should be.

You cant teach speed - you've either naturally got it, or you dont.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 10 June 2012 - 09:45.


#388 jamiegc

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:56

Very poor showing from Vergne yesterday... His one lap pace is very often similar to drivers of Caterham. Ricciardo looks much much better on Saturday, but I wonder where dissapears his strong pace, when it matters at most - on race day...

I predict if he keeps messing up his qualifying and ending up behind a pair of Caterhams, he wont be in Formula One in three years from now.

I'd rather have a fast driver that needs some racecraft coaching, than a slow driver who can reliably bringing the car home below where it should be.

You cant teach speed - you've either naturally got it, or you dont.


Vergne had no chance in qualifying yesterday after crashing of his own error in FP3. Might as well start from the pitlane and actually set the car up.

#389 icecream

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:02

Vergne had no chance in qualifying yesterday after crashing of his own error in FP3. Might as well start from the pitlane and actually set the car up.


besides less running time, what difference does it make to his car setup?

#390 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:55

^ exactly. I would have thought he'd have a workable baseline from FP1 & FP2, plus Ricciardo's data.

#391 krapmeister

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:04

Vergne looks like he is trying to overdrive the car all the time, whereas I suspect Dan isn't and this is playing out in qualifying - but at the start of the races the fact that Vergne hustles the car and isn't afraid to stick his nose in places has resulted in him gaining spots while Dan isn't as assertive and willing to risk it...

Edited by krapmeister, 10 June 2012 - 12:05.


#392 jamiegc

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:23

besides less running time, what difference does it make to his car setup?


Track was washed clean by a torrential downpour overnight and the temperatures greatly increased from friday to saturday so you would require setup changes, which clearly he could not work on due to having crashed.

#393 AdHoc

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 13:03

I predict if he keeps messing up his qualifying and ending up behind a pair of Caterhams, he wont be in Formula One in three years from now.

I'd rather have a fast driver that needs some racecraft coaching, than a slow driver who can reliably bringing the car home below where it should be.

You cant teach speed - you've either naturally got it, or you dont.


It's only his seventh GP on a shitty car, hard to say what his true level really is. Qualifying wasn't a problem for him before F1, so he's likely to be back at his true racing level once he's solved this particular problem.

Anyway, he finishes in front of his team mate at every race basically, and he still leads him in the standings and was close to score points in the last race, so don't worry, he'll be there in three years :kiss:

Edited by AdHoc, 10 June 2012 - 13:04.


#394 krapmeister

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 13:10

It's only his seventh GP on a shitty car, hard to say what his true level really is. Qualifying wasn't a problem for him before F1, so he's likely to be back at his true racing level once he's solved this particular problem.

Anyway, he finishes in front of his team mate at every race basically, and he still leads him in the standings and was close to score points in the last race, so don't worry, he'll be there in three years :kiss:


Not trying to take the piss with you but the history of Torro Rosso and the Red Bull driver scheme is littered with drivers who were thought to be The Next Big Thing™...

#395 AdHoc

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 13:24

You could have said the same after every bad race of Vettel, especially when he took Webber out at Fuji. And two years later he's double WDC.

In contrast with Liuzzi, Speed, Alguersuari, Buemi & others, Vettel and JEV are highly regarded at Red Bull. Only one excellent result from JEV (like Vettel in Monza or Shanghai) and he'll be propelled up the ladder.

It was close to happen in Monaco (had it rained...), but it didn't. Next time it might work.

#396 jamiegc

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 13:24

Not trying to take the piss with you but the history of Torro Rosso and the Red Bull driver scheme is littered with drivers who were thought to be The Next Big Thing™...


With the history of Toro Rosso, its about another 10 years before they're due another graduate! :lol:

#397 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 13:50

Just as some thought H├╝lkenberg or Vettel would be, for example ;)

I love Australia (I live in Melbourne) and I like Dan very much (he was very nice to me and even took some time to talk to me in the paddock), but I think he will get crushed. It happens sometimes in F1: a driver gets in the path of another monster and his career gets shaken up.


We now know Hulkenberg is more Kovalainen than Raikkonen or Hakkinen, of course, being regularly outqualified by di Resta and Barrichello is not a good look! :)

Besides, the notion of Riccardio being crushed like Pizzonia is utterly absurd, he has outqualified Vergne after all.

My concern is how forgettable they have both been - they have shown absolutely nothing to say they are better than the old duo, awaiting "unlocking of potential" or otherwise. Obviously the better drivers like Schumacher, and even solidly upper-midfield types like Kobayashi or indeed Grosjean's latest appearence - did not need time to find speed in f1, the innate ability to drive an f1 car is there. If they were indeed beating a Sutil or Raikkonen in the other car, then of course the assessment, even given a lowly 8th best car, would be far easier.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 10 June 2012 - 13:51.


#398 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 13:55

It's only his seventh GP on a shitty car,

Ferrari would look terrible if Massa x 2 was driving. Same for McLaren if Button was numero uno and struggling with those awful tyres not heating up.

If both are underperforming, the car may in fact not be that bad... Funny how an a-list driver might be able to do compared to b-lister like say Senna. So far, they have not demonstrated themselves to be better than Bruno Senna, Nakajima, Sato, Speed, Liuzzi, de la Rosa... etc etc etc etc so it is quite possible the car is better than this? Remains to be seen.

#399 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 14:25

Track was washed clean by a torrential downpour overnight and the temperatures greatly increased from friday to saturday so you would require setup changes, which clearly he could not work on due to having crashed.


So dont crash?

I suspect DannyRic's speed has surprised JEV, and he's been a bit careless trying to match the Australian.

JEV may well have gotten the better of DR in the races so far, but it's been more by good luck and tyre strat than good racing. Once DR turns a few of his qualifying wins into 9th or 10th places, JEV's going to be really scrambling to maintain equality in that team.

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#400 danstheman

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 19:44

Good pace from Dan today. A shame about the spin, but he was pushing really hard at the end there, set a purple sector at one point.

He always seems to have poor pit stop strategy. I assume the team tried keeping him out in front of the Force India's on a one-stop, but the problem was he stopped early in the race so it was never going to work given tire degredation shown. They would have been better off pitting him as soon as there was a clear differential in lap times, as he had plenty of clean air to use!!

Ahwell, at least his race pace was better than Verge's this time, I hope he's turned a corner