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Ricciardo VS Vergne - 2012


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#401 jamiegc

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 19:45

P14 & P15. A bad weekend for TR.

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#402 danstheman

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 19:56

Dan had the pace for at around P11 if he had a better start and had some luck with pit strategies. It was very closely fought in the mid-field.

It doesn't help that these days there are so little retirements!!

#403 krapmeister

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 19:57

Good pace from Dan today. A shame about the spin, but he was pushing really hard at the end there, set a purple sector at one point.

He always seems to have poor pit stop strategy. I assume the team tried keeping him out in front of the Force India's on a one-stop, but the problem was he stopped early in the race so it was never going to work given tire degredation shown. They would have been better off pitting him as soon as there was a clear differential in lap times, as he had plenty of clean air to use!!

Ahwell, at least his race pace was better than Verge's this time, I hope he's turned a corner


Oh right so he did pit earlier? I must've missed that - I thought he went 58 laps on one set! :lol:

Weekend to Dan but yeah, P14/15 isn't anything to crow about. Better than Button in P16 though! :D

#404 marcoferrari

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 22:35

You could have said the same after every bad race of Vettel, especially when he took Webber out at Fuji. And two years later he's double WDC.

In contrast with Liuzzi, Speed, Alguersuari, Buemi & others, Vettel and JEV are highly regarded at Red Bull. Only one excellent result from JEV (like Vettel in Monza or Shanghai) and he'll be propelled up the ladder.

It was close to happen in Monaco (had it rained...), but it didn't. Next time it might work.


Yes, we know that. But important are results and at the moment Vergne is very far from being top. Especially his qualis are horrible...

#405 danstheman

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:58

Interesting in depth article about Ricciardo and how his tentative racing is the reason why his starts have been so poor.

http://www.foxsports...l-1226398545785

It's not necessarily his launch control, but more so his positioning and throttle control in traffic in the first few corners

#406 goldenboy

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 12:11

anyone see dan at silverstone motogp? was only on screen for a few seconds but it was long enough for him to crack out the "BIG BALLS!" hands gesture :lol: :lol:

#407 danstheman

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 23:17

Great but ultimately disappointing race for Dan today. He showed some genuine speed against some of the midfield and was definitely on track for some possible points, would have had to overtake Button and Perez etc, but I think his tyres were much more fresh.

I think the reason he didn't pit during the safety car was that JEV was blocking the pit box, as they were trying to fix his car?? Hard to tell what difference it would have made, as maybe it was better that he ended up pitting later and had fresh tyres. The problem was the crash with Petrov which cost him 15 seconds. Maybe he was a bit impatient, but it seemed that he undercut Petrov and looked to be getting ahead but Petrov put in a nice late braking maneuver up the inside and unfortunately they clashed wheels. Probably need an onboard or helicopter angle to see if there was enough room left for Petrov on the inside.

JEV had a poor race and has struggled the last 2 weeks. I hope that Dan can keep the momentum now. Oh and GREAT START for once!!!

#408 Jaybools

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 00:48

Yep, looked like Dan was on for points (passing Perez/Rosberg/Maldo) but his pits were ruined because JEV's car was in the way. What an absolute cock up, why didn't he park it on the circuit? It was totalled by the time he got to the pits. Not really JEV's fault though, more like some extra STR team failure (as usual).

#409 LukeM

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:17

Considering Dan was pitting around Webber/Schumacher he woulda been on for at least 6th-8th today, pity about the pitlane cockup. Positive is Dan is starting to show how good he is, he is dominating JEV in qualifying and is starting to do the same in races. He can take alot of confidence outta this one.

#410 Sardukar

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:13

The difference in Q1 so far has ricciardo beating vergne quite easily at the moment. And this was the first race where ricciardo was more assertive at the start and managed to stay infront of webber and actually pass some people on the first few laps. If he can keep this form during races i think its pretty clear who will win this team battle.

Just watched the crash with petrov on youtube (channel 10 showed it once but otherwise missed it here) and looks like petrov overcooked it whilst ricciardo was going around the outside of him. Dissapointing as he would have gotten some solid points.

Edited by Sardukar, 25 June 2012 - 05:17.


#411 krapmeister

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:16

Certainly looked to me like Dan left enough room for Petrov but unfortunately Petrov wasn't able to keep the tighter line.

Disappointed that he didn't get points in the end but certainly was a positive race weekend in whole - hope that he can keep the momentum going :up:



#412 Jaybools

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:36

Sums up nicely:
http://s13.postimage...ciardo_Copy.jpg

Big shame. Imagine if he got 5th or something (as I doubt he would have held off MSC and Webber at the end, but he was actually outpacing them earlier on so who knows? Podium? Not far fetched to think so..)

Wouldve been massive. Especially in that shit box of a car. Massive, massive shame. I dearly hope he can do well at the next race and keep up similar form. I take comfort in knowing the engineers would have seen this too..

Edited by Jaybools, 25 June 2012 - 13:38.


#413 lbennie

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:35

Danny Ricky is starting to look the goods now.



#414 slideways

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:15

Sums up nicely:
http://s13.postimage...ciardo_Copy.jpg

Big shame. Imagine if he got 5th or something (as I doubt he would have held off MSC and Webber at the end, but he was actually outpacing them earlier on so who knows? Podium? Not far fetched to think so..)

Wouldve been massive. Especially in that shit box of a car. Massive, massive shame. I dearly hope he can do well at the next race and keep up similar form. I take comfort in knowing the engineers would have seen this too..


Liked the pic and yeah looks like he's starting to settle hopefully the results will come.

The petrov collision is off though. I've only seen it from 1 angle but Dan went for the outside and instead of giving room and securing the pass on corner exit he chopped over the apex and Petrovs wing/tyre. IMO Dan could have left more space, Petrov could have ceded position, racing incident.

Edited by slideways, 28 June 2012 - 02:20.


#415 icecream

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:32

The petrov collision is off though. I've only seen it from 1 angle but Dan went for the outside and instead of giving room and securing the pass on corner exit he chopped over the apex and Petrovs wing/tyre. IMO Dan could have left more space, Petrov could have ceded position, racing incident.


from my recollection i'd say it was around a 60/40 incident, with more blame on dan's side.

#416 krapmeister

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:36

Liked the pic and yeah looks like he's starting to settle hopefully the results will come.

The petrov collision is off though. I've only seen it from 1 angle but Dan went for the outside and instead of giving room and securing the pass on corner exit he chopped over the apex and Petrovs wing/tyre. IMO Dan could have left more space, Petrov could have ceded position, racing incident.


I have probably seen the same camera angle as you but to me it looked like Dan was doing just what you said he should do - secure the pass on the exit. It looked like he gave him room pretty much all the way but probably tightened on the corner exit to avoid going onto the kerbs and that is when Petrov tagged him. Surely if he came across the apex as you say they would've tagged each other earlier in the corner, not at the exit? Anyway I agree, a racing incident...

#417 lbennie

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 04:15

collision was definitely on corner exit, not apex.

couldn't really tell who's fault it was though, they only gave us one angle.

chalk it up as a racing incident imo.




#418 Borat

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:59

why Would they keep sending VER out 1st and give him the clear track and a rear gunner when he's got a 10 place drop!

Why would you not give your guy who has the best chance at a good qul the best shot you can... I really can not think of a good reason why you would do that?

#419 goldenboy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 13:37

why Would they keep sending VER out 1st and give him the clear track and a rear gunner when he's got a 10 place drop!

Why would you not give your guy who has the best chance at a good qul the best shot you can... I really can not think of a good reason why you would do that?

maybe they were treating him as a conditions test for ricciardo?

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#420 Borat

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 13:51

maybe they were treating him as a conditions test for ricciardo?



Haha interesting idea..! But I doubt it :)

#421 danstheman

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:17

Grosjean ruined Dan's Q2!!! Dan was quicker than Alonso through S1 and S2 but help back under yellow flags more...annoying!!!

#422 Borat

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:18

Yeh, that sucks balls!!!

#423 goldenboy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:20

thats racin'

shame though, was getting excited, he's been doing bloody well this wkend

Edited by goldenboy, 07 July 2012 - 14:20.


#424 Sardukar

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:43

.6 faster than vergne in Q2 though.

#425 goldenboy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:47

.6 faster than vergne in Q2 though.

not exactly that straightforward though with such a mixed up session

#426 danstheman

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:49

Should have been 1 sec faster

#427 Borat

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:12

Should have been 1 sec faster



Should have been well into the top 10, he was 3 10/s up on Alonso...

#428 krapmeister

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:16

I really thought that the Torro Rosso boys were going to spring a surprise today, shame that the yellows came out for Dan's last sector but Alonso showed his experience in only slowing for the barest margin required - whereas Dan was much more circumspect (although he was also quite close to another car so maybe caught that car at the worst possible time)...

#429 goldenboy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:24

I really thought that the Torro Rosso boys were going to spring a surprise today, shame that the yellows came out for Dan's last sector but Alonso showed his experience in only slowing for the barest margin required - whereas Dan was much more circumspect (although he was also quite close to another car so maybe caught that car at the worst possible time)...

yep since fp1 I had a good feeling about dan for this wkend, his qually result is dissapointing but unlucky

#430 goldenboy

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:24

Should have been 1 sec faster

true hadn't thought how much further he would have been if he didn't get that yellow flag

#431 danstheman

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:33

Dan starts P12 and JEV P23 after penalties to be handed out (assuming no one else gets another)

#432 Sardukar

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:50

poor start from ricciardo, but proved yet again that his race pace is superior to vergne and finished ahead of him.

#433 krapmeister

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:52

poor start from ricciardo, but proved yet again that his race pace is superior to vergne and finished ahead of him.


Yeah Vergne was ahead of Dan by the end of the first lap - despite Vergne being 10 places behind him on the grid...

#434 danstheman

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:57

Dan lost too much time in his second stint on those soft tyres. Would have been better off with the softs at the start and the hards towards the end. His pace at the end was really impressive, even faster than the Mclarens I think.

I'm not sure what happened at the start, dirty side of the grid I think but he only lost a few places at the very start...maybe he lost more when someone overtook during the first lap?

#435 danstheman

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:20

Yes, it seems he got caught up in the first lap on the dirty line (again) and lost some more places

"The start was very poor and off the line, the car just sat there with the wheels spinning, even though it had worked well on the formation lap. It meant I lost several positions off the line. My first lap was a bit of a mess, as another car ran a bit wide going into Turn 7 and I was pushed even further to the outside."

#436 goldenboy

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:42

how many positions did jev make at the start?! :eek:

dan needs to sort these little issues he seems to have out, every time I looked at the laptimes he was spanking vergne about 80% of the time although would be better to compare some stints and evaluate it a little more, but his race pace was damn good.

#437 Borat

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:40

yeah Dan has the old webber problem, he put the car up the grid where it really should not be, then goes backwards, and JEV starts down the order and moves up, they always end up around each other..

#438 Wingcommander

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 20:22

Toro Rosso team boss Franz Tost 'satisfied' with Ricciardo and Vergne so far in 2012

Tost is making a fool of himself. Marko's puppet. A muppet?

#439 goldenboy

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 00:42

Toro Rosso team boss Franz Tost 'satisfied' with Ricciardo and Vergne so far in 2012

Tost is making a fool of himself. Marko's puppet. A muppet?

sounds to me like he was more pissed off maybe with JA or SB

Does anyone know where we can get stint times for the races?

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#440 danstheman

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:43

http://en.mclarenf-1.....iel Ricciardo

http://en.mclarenf-1...h...2&hid=16_17

I'm not sure that Vergne's race in Monaco was so special. A good race that was ruined by an ill-timed stop at the end, yes. But he hugely benefited from having the superior strategy being one of the only cars with clean air. It was almost impossible to overtake. Button spent the whole race behind a Caterham until he got fed up and subsequently damaged his car trying to overtake. Getting clean air was the only way to move up the order. I think many drivers would have done the same. Whereas Dan's special moment was in qualifying when all cars are in clean air and on generally on the same strategy in the same conditions.

#441 danstheman

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:47

Double post

Edited by danstheman, 12 July 2012 - 02:48.


#442 Zava

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:58

sounds to me like he was more pissed off maybe with JA or SB

Does anyone know where we can get stint times for the races?

"To come into Formula 1 means that you are willing to start working very hard. Everything that you've done before is kindergarten (laughs). Being in Formula 1 you must live 365 days a year and 24 hours a day for Formula 1.

DJ Squire, anyone? :drunk:

#443 goldenboy

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:46

DJ Squire, anyone? :drunk:

haha yeah that was the first thing I thought.

Looking at those laptimes on the prev page they were actually a lot closer than I thought.

#444 GhostR

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:51

sounds to me like he was more pissed off maybe with JA or SB


This is what I took away from that article as well. There were rumblings about both of them having been given a bollocking for not working hard enough at various points. And after JA and SB were let go, the reason given was basically that the telemetry proved that neither of them were trying hard enough to get the maximum potential from the car. I get the feeling the STR team value a driver who goes looking for the 100% limit and occasionally pushes beyond and thus bins it occasionally / makes mistakes (something that should decrease with experience) over the sort of driver who only ever takes 9x% of what the car has to offer.

Would also explain the rumours of Marko being unhappy after Dan's first races with HRT last year. Was clear as day over those first 3 races that Dan was playing it safe to start off with. Which was sensible, but probably overdone. Once he kicked it into gear and started dusting up Liuzzi, I'm sure the STR folks were much happier.

#445 GregAU

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 04:08

Well nothing much to see here except just the usual qualifying smackdown by Dan...he was very close to getting into Q3 again as well.

I thought JEV was more impressive at the start of the year, but now Dan seems to have a good 2-4 tenths on him on any given day??? I'm not sure why this is the case.

#446 goldenboy

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:42

was frustrating to see him so close to making it into the top ten.

with penalties vergne is only 2 spots behind him I believe, which means he will be 5 ahead after turn 1! ould be awesome to see dan get a great start for a change and not be on the backfoot from the get go.

Edited by goldenboy, 22 July 2012 - 07:43.


#447 BCM

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:30

Agree. Dan seems to have the wood on Vergne quail wise but rarely seems to get the better of him in the race. Although in some races this year it has been hard to tell how they have performed relative to each other because STR has put them on totally different strategies.

I was surprised to see the STR principal say that Vergne was in a good position in Monaco because he was totally out of sequence on his stops and was never going to finish at his highest position.

Good signs from Dan regarding his overall pace in the last two wet quails though. Just missed out on Q3 this time and was looking very good indeed at Silverstone until he had the misfortune to hit the yellows in S3.

Edited by BCM, 22 July 2012 - 10:34.


#448 InvertedLift

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:48

Agree. Dan seems to have the wood on Vergne quail wise but rarely seems to get the better of him in the race.

Beaten him in the last 3...

And was well on top in Valencia before Vergne being worked on in the pit box stuffed his strategy

#449 goldenboy

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 13:40

2 stopping ricciardo beats 3 stopping vergne by only a tenth in the end!

Dan had a good start for a change though.

Very strange watching these two race each other, almost seems like dan disadvantages himself by qualifying better and taking a less aggressive strategy. Vergne is good with the agressive strategy.

#450 danstheman

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 14:07

Dan was slightly out of sync to make a two stopper work. Although he pitted on the same lap as Maldonado and seemed to be much faster in the last stint, then Pastor had to pit for another set as well.

STR seem to make poor strategy decisions all the time, which usually disadvantage Dan more