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Formula 1 could return to Argentina from the 2014 season [merged]


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#101 ezequiel

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 15:33

Looks like it's in the ass end of nowhere from a quick scan on google maps, how the heck are they going to be able to afford a race.


Mar del Plata has around 600 thousand inhabitants and it goes up to almost one million counting the metropolitan area in the General Pueyrredón partido and it's one of the most important touristic destinies in Argentina. It's "just" 400 km away from Buenos Aires City and 350 km away from La Plata (capital city of the Buenos Aires Province). Hardly in the middle of nowhere.

Errr... why do we have two threads for this?

Edited by ezequiel, 05 April 2012 - 15:35.


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#102 Myrvold

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 18:19

For some reason, if they keep it "naval" down there. With still using safety requirements - if the keep the essense of the place, it might just be awesome!
I would've loved to sit on top of a container in the middle of the naval area, and watch F1. It would've been unique, and brilliant!

EDIT: No, I'm not smoking or drinking anything :)

Edited by Myrvold, 05 April 2012 - 18:20.


#103 nimbus111

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 18:27

wow i love the scenery out there, looking forward to it.

#104 Cavani

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:11

oh no street circuits again please . valencia is just enough , we cant be bored more than that , another thing replacing korea gp ? the circuit that has been built specifically for F1 and only 3 races happen on it before it was sacked ?

#105 fastlegs

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:26

What's wrong with going back to the Autódromo Juan y Oscar Gálvez?

#106 highdownforce

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:32

Errr... why do we have two threads for this?

No idea, i've suggested a merge earlier but, anyways...

I've have a few things for you to dig in. I've read that this has already mentioned on Olé yesterday.

I've said before that T4F is involved in this project and that is particularly interesting for two reasons:

(1) It's a Brazilian company; STC2000 has just realized a successful street race in Buenos Aires but a brazilian company was chosen, that at least weird.

(2) T4F is better know for another race series. This company controls the other Brazilian company Vicar. Vicar is the organizer and promoter of Stock Car Brasil.

I've heard that there is another partner in this equation that I was totally unaware of: SPTuris (São Paulo Turismo S/A) the City of São Paulo owned Tourism and Event promoter. SPTuris is behind São Paulo Indy 300 and most notably Interlagos (lack of) management besides all sort of sport and cultural events. One of the requisites for this Argentinian GP is for it to be always the last race of season, just after the Brazilian round.

If you're aware of Brazilian motorsport discussions, specially about Interlagos, you'll know that SPTuris and Vicar are not exactly the most competent nor most transparent organizations out there. I'd keep an eye on the development of this event.


Oh, and CVC would also be a partner, obviously.


Edit: Some Brazilian reporters are already asking SPTuris and T4F for confirmation of this, I'd say T4F is dead centain, but SPTuris if confirmed could cause some upsets on the public opinion here in Brazil.

Edit2: The cynic in me would say that Cacá Bueno is racing also at STC2000 because of this deal.

Edited by highdownforce, 05 April 2012 - 22:02.


#107 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:37

More pictures

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Link

It seems from the pictures it looks as if there plans to be a tunnel from turn 2 to the turn 3 chicane, like Monaco. And looks like the land must be extended for turns 3, 4 & 5. We'll see if this is going to happen soon.

#108 Disgrace

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:38

I bloody hope there's a new generation of F1 architects coming up sooner rather than later. A little competition is perhaps needed.

#109 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:46

Oh. So the pits are on the pier section. Very novel. That is if that has any resemblance to the actual circuit. Still, it can't be more bland that the Valencia container port.

Though I do wonder if anyone like Tilke will be brave and suggest a new F1 circuit that winds it's way through the countryside, like they used to once upon a time. I'm not holding my breath.

#110 jee

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:51

This track seems to be great for spectators though.

#111 highdownforce

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 20:54

It seems from the pictures it looks as if there plans to be a tunnel from turn 2 to the turn 3 chicane, like Monaco. And looks like the land must be extended for turns 3, 4 & 5. We'll see if this is going to happen soon.

I guess this is not a tunnel, just a bridge. Everything else in black would be only the shadow of the building.
Btw, it's a shame that those temporary stands on the main straight will obstruct the view of the scenery.

It amazes me that the race would start with hairpin (T1) on such a confined space.

#112 midgrid

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 21:57

I count three unnecessary chicanes. Hopefully this design will be reworked before it reaches its final specification.

#113 Baddoer

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:09

Wow, Argentinian gp on new track... Oh wait its 2012, lets just throw a few 800m straights joined by bunch of chicanes. And here we go! 25 DRS zones and a fancy hairpin around some lamp post. Another amazingly crappy ciruit somewhere in nowhere!

Edited by Baddoer, 05 April 2012 - 22:11.


#114 Atreiu

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:21

A track that is nothing but hairpin bends and low speed chicanes? Pass...


Street tracks are supposed to be tough and demanding with slow corners and short acceleration bursts. That is their character, not fast and flowing as other circuits. It worked for Singapore, IMO, and didn't for Valencia. I'll hold judgement on this one but I hope it works.

#115 ezequiel

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 22:23

What's wrong with going back to the Autódromo Juan y Oscar Gálvez?


It's in a horrible state and would require a lot of investment. I understand there's a group of people who's working to convince the Argentine government to use the money not to build a street circuit in Mar del Plata but to invest it in the Buenos Aires autodrome. The thing is that the State is not putting all the money so even if they wanted to maybe the private investors wouldn't agree. Another possibility would have been Termas de Río Hondo in the province of Santiago del Estero (north of the country) which has the best circuit in Argentina (in terms of infraestructure, I find the course quite boring indeed) along with Potrero, but they're hosting MotoGP from 2013 also with National government support, so I suppose they don't want to hold every international racing meeting in the same place.

Edited by ezequiel, 06 April 2012 - 00:38.


#116 Dalin80

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:04

Somehow I just cant see all the British based teams, drivers and personnel rushing to go racing in Argentina, especially with the current atmosphere and the Argentine attempts to starve out the population of the Falklands.

#117 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:10

This circuit/street course looks bad. If F1 was going to go to Argentina they should go here, to Potrero de los Funes. Much better and could actually produce a good grand prix.

Posted Image

#118 Markn93

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 23:18

This circuit/street course looks bad. If F1 was going to go to Argentina they should go here, to Potrero de los Funes. Much better and could actually produce a good grand prix.

Posted Image


I have no initial problems with the street circuit, as I'm prepared to see it in actuality before judging it, but that track would be amazing :up:

Edited by Markn93, 05 April 2012 - 23:18.


#119 ezequiel

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 00:38

Somehow I just cant see all the British based teams, drivers and personnel rushing to go racing in Argentina, especially with the current atmosphere and the Argentine attempts to starve out the population of the Falklands.



Don't want to be rude, but don't start again with these silly things, please. We had enough in the other thread. Let's stick to what we (are supposed to) know, which is motor racing and let's not embarrass ourselves with our poorly informed and crass political statements.

Edited by ezequiel, 06 April 2012 - 00:38.


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#120 Les

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:18

This is a very rough sketch I've done on Google Earth. Surely if all the chicanes and pointless crap were left out we could have a decent circuit? Surely the aim should be to build a challenging race track? If they are having to put in chicanes every 800m to stop it being dangerous then they should go and race somewhere else instead?

Of course its probably more about business and politics with another marina race to make a government look good.

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And the roundabout section... seriously its the worst bit of race track design I've ever seen! A roundabout for goodness sake!

Edited by Les, 06 April 2012 - 01:21.


#121 johnmhinds

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:42

And the roundabout section... seriously its the worst bit of race track design I've ever seen! A roundabout for goodness sake!


Exactly what I was thinking, looks like the worst track design i've seen in quiet a while, even for a street track it's really half assed.

The layout isn't even adequate for a tin top race.


#122 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:24

A roundabout would work if the track was going down one side of the dual carriageway and then had to return down the other, like at Birmingham IIRC. The way it's suggested it just looks to slow and fiddly.

But going by that google imagine, I can't even see why there is a roundabout there. It only has one exit :confused:

#123 D.M.N.

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:50

Buenos Aires, Potrero de los Funes or nothing. Don't need yet another street circuit.

#124 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:14

What happened to Velociudad Speedcity? It was meant to be a purpose-built F1-ready circuit about 80km from Buenos Aires and I thought they had actually started building it.

#125 BRG

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:28

Buenos Aires, Potrero de los Funes or nothing. Don't need yet another street circuit.

Agreed. Argentina should have a GP - it is a core motor racing country, unlike Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Singapore etc.

But not this ridiculous seaside idea. If they must have a street circuit, surely Buenos Aires would be the place? Maybe near the university and La Recoleta?

#126 Les

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:18

A roundabout would work if the track was going down one side of the dual carriageway and then had to return down the other, like at Birmingham IIRC. The way it's suggested it just looks to slow and fiddly.

But going by that google imagine, I can't even see why there is a roundabout there. It only has one exit :confused:


Yeah I agree completely. Birmingham worked as it was a corner connecting two long straights. This seems to exist with the sole purpose of allowing extra grandstand space.

Anyway the contract isn't signed yet and I'm pretty cynical about this whole thing. It sounds like nonesense. It would be good to have a Grand Prix in Argentina but not here!

#127 Faupa

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:52

AutoSprint reports the 3 year deal will be signed in May and take the place of the Korean GP. This will be a street circuit, but Tilke will be responsible for the layout. GP count will still be at 20 GP's for 2013.

Posted Image

http://www.auto.it/a...entina nel 2013!

Argentinian GP. Sorry for mis-spelling in the title.



Yeah Team. a real street circuit, not another Tilke Monotomy drone

#128 One

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 13:08

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Look slike another NYC GP strategy where organizer lay no single m2 new asphalt.

#129 ezequiel

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 13:34

What happened to Velociudad Speedcity? It was meant to be a purpose-built F1-ready circuit about 80km from Buenos Aires and I thought they had actually started building it.


Indeed, they are building it, though I understand it won't be complete until 2015 or so. The contract for the Mar del Plata race would be for three seasons (2013-2015).

#130 THE "driverider"

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 13:48

This circuit/street course looks bad. If F1 was going to go to Argentina they should go here, to Potrero de los Funes. Much better and could actually produce a good grand prix.

Posted Image

If only, I can't see how it wouldn't be safe.

#131 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 14:52

Indeed, they are building it, though I understand it won't be complete until 2015 or so. The contract for the Mar del Plata race would be for three seasons (2013-2015).


So do you think they'll hold the race at Mar del Plata and then switch to Velociudad?

#132 ezequiel

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 14:57

So do you think they'll hold the race at Mar del Plata and then switch to Velociudad?


There's nothing that indicates that. We could speculate but the contract for the 2013-2015 GPs is not even signed yet so I say, let's not rush. Even if there's a GP for the next 3 years it could be none after that.

#133 Henrik B

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 15:14

Look slike another NYC GP strategy where organizer lay no single m2 new asphalt.


Looking at earlier pictures on how the existing roads look on the ground, Argentina is going to lay quite a lot of new asphalt.

#134 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 22:51

Autosprint update hoje
LA F.1 TORNERÀ IN ARGENTINA NEL 2013!
Su un circuito cittadino a Mar del Plata. Salteranno Valencia e Corea

Nel 2013 tornerà il Gp di Argentina. L’accordo triennale sarà firmato a maggio tra il ministro del Turismo, Enrique Mayer e Bernie Ecclestone, e prevede la costruzione di un circuito cittadino di circa 5 km di lunghezza, a Mar del Plata, una delle località più suggestive del paese Sud Americano. La F.1 è assente dall’Argentina dal 1998, quando per l’ultima volta si corse sul circuito permanente di Buenos Aires. Il Ministro Enrique Mayer ha dichiarato: "Il Governo nazionale accetta la sfida di organizzare il GP di Argentina per promuovere l’immagine del nostro paese nel mondo. A maggio sarà firmato il contratto triennale tra tutte le parti coinvolte”.

Herman Tilke sarà responsabile del progetto della pista che dovrebbe prevedere 18 curve e svilupparsi in buona parte dentro una base navale dell’esercito. Fermo restando immutato il numero di 20 Gp all’anno, e con l’arrivo nel 2013 dei Gp di New Jersey e Argentina, a cedere il posto sarà il Gp di Europa, con il Gp di Spagna che si alternerà sui circuiti di Montmelò e il cittadino di Valencia; e dovrebbe saltare pure il Gp di Corea, che non sembra più in grado di onorare gli impegni economici assunti con Ecclestone.

Link:
http://www.auto.it/a...entina nel 2013!

Posted Image

Edited by Repco von Brabham, 06 April 2012 - 22:52.


#135 Dalin80

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:38

While Enrique Meyer, Minister of Tourism, said the state would pay for "20 to 22 million dollars" for each of the three races, the newspaper reports that BAE would test a very affordable rent.



Kind regards



BAE seem to have their fingers in a lot of pies now considering this is BAE's latest product.

Unless its a different group of course but the media really should be a lot more careful with abbreviations etc.

#136 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:14

The F1 race in Argentina IS A FACT!!

#137 Fastcake

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 15:11

The F1 race in Argentina IS A FACT!!


Is it?

I think we ought to wait for Bernie to say that first.

#138 August

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:50

I understand there's a group of people who's working to convince the Argentine government to use the money not to build a street circuit in Mar del Plata but to invest it in the Buenos Aires autodrome.


By improving facilities and layout, I think BsAs autodrome could be a good venue for F1, its obviously quite close to Buenos Aires city centre. And improving it would have more value for the motorsport people.

Another possibility would have been Termas de Río Hondo in the province of Santiago del Estero (north of the country) which has the best circuit in Argentina (in terms of infraestructure, I find the course quite boring indeed) along with Potrero, but they're hosting MotoGP from 2013 also with National government support, so I suppose they don't want to hold every international racing meeting in the same place.


Would the area of Termas de Río Hondo have enough hotel capacity?

If they must have a street circuit, surely Buenos Aires would be the place? Maybe near the university and La Recoleta?


First of all, I don't think it has to be a street circuit necessarily. But were there political reasons favouring Mar del Plata over BsAs when it comes to F1, as well as Davis Cup final in 2008?

What happened to Velociudad Speedcity? It was meant to be a purpose-built F1-ready circuit about 80km from Buenos Aires and I thought they had actually started building it.


Well, neither the latter proposal looked good for F1, the straights were too short.

Buenos Aires, Potrero de los Funes or nothing. Don't need yet another street circuit.


+1

Edited by August, 08 April 2012 - 11:56.


#139 spacekid

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 14:10

This circuit/street course looks bad. If F1 was going to go to Argentina they should go here, to Potrero de los Funes. Much better and could actually produce a good grand prix.

Posted Image


If only, what a great looking track. I'd love to see F1 have a race there.

The more I see the proposed street circuit layout the more I dislike it. Hope F1 doesn't go there.

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#140 Disgrace

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 15:05

That's not a street circuit, it's a faux contemporary circuit in the docks of a city in the mould of Valencia. It needs to be comprised of actual streets to qualify, like Monaco and Singapore.

#141 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 16:25

This circuit/street course looks bad. If F1 was going to go to Argentina they should go here, to Potrero de los Funes. Much better and could actually produce a good grand prix.

Posted Image


Corrrrr :up:

#142 ezequiel

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 21:28

This is the first simulation of how would be a lap on the possible Mar del Plata street circuit. It's made by a fan, so don't take it as something definitive.

#143 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 21:37

Obviously taking that sim with a pinch of salt, but there does seem to be potential there. The "Golf Club" chicane and the "Playa Grande" roundabout section would be terrible. OTOH, the final corner would be epic.

#144 Les

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 21:55

This is interesting as this track uses part of the proposed circuit http://www.youtube.c...feature=related.

#145 Repco von Brabham

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 22:12

Is ready now the simulation of Mar Del Plata circuit!

The car is a Hispania F112






regards