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Sauber C31 - 2012 [merged]


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#901 dau

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:36

Horrible strategy for Koba, i agree. But i'm not sure a point would've been in reach anyway - maybe if he could've gone past Ricciardo early on. Weird he was stuck there, the car wasn't exactly slow on the straights.

Perez could've got some points, but he was a bit too aggressive vs. Ricciardo. Unnecessary. Should've waited for a better chance, but stuff like that happens. At least Merc didn't score either, so it's still 21pts for the final three races. Still possible considering Merc is clearly struggling with pace. Force India is getting stronger and stronger though.

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#902 muramasa

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 14:01


Looked the car had issue particularly on heavy fuel load. Both cars struggled badly in early part of the race. Bit puzzling.

Also it looked to me that the car again struggled on traction. S1 not as fast as S2&3, and not able to close in on the car in front even with DRS open.

#903 mich

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 18:30

Horrible strategy for Koba, i agree. But i'm not sure a point would've been in reach anyway - maybe if he could've gone past Ricciardo early on. Weird he was stuck there, the car wasn't exactly slow on the straights.

Perez could've got some points, but he was a bit too aggressive vs. Ricciardo. Unnecessary. Should've waited for a better chance, but stuff like that happens. At least Merc didn't score either, so it's still 21pts for the final three races. Still possible considering Merc is clearly struggling with pace. Force India is getting stronger and stronger though.


Where can they finish in front of Mercedes and Force India?
Yas Marina Circuit and Circuit of the Americas are the same type as Yeongam and Buddha designed by Hermann Tilke, with long straight after the very slow corner and same number of fast and slow corners.
it is conceivable that Sauber is slower than FI and Merc in these circuit.
IMO only in Interlagos they can get some points but it means they can hardly beat Merc.

Edited by mich, 28 October 2012 - 18:32.


#904 Collective

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 20:23

Horrible strategy for Koba, i agree. But i'm not sure a point would've been in reach anyway - maybe if he could've gone past Ricciardo early on. Weird he was stuck there, the car wasn't exactly slow on the straights.

Perez could've got some points, but he was a bit too aggressive vs. Ricciardo. Unnecessary. Should've waited for a better chance, but stuff like that happens. At least Merc didn't score either, so it's still 21pts for the final three races. Still possible considering Merc is clearly struggling with pace. Force India is getting stronger and stronger though.


I think by that point his race was destroyed too due to the switch to two stops. Apparently one of the front tyres had blisters. Bummer.

#905 Vickyy

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:14

appaling.. even the likes of James Allen uttering such uninformed, ignorant opinion. I'd even say disgusting. Do F1 not have proper "journalists" and "analysts"? :rolleyes:


Now, even Monisha acknowledges this fact : http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103930

#906 Collective

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 13:57

Now, even Monisha acknowledges this fact : http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103930

It's funny how she slams the drivers when the team has also f'ed up big time in strategy, and even bigger time in qualy sessions. They were 4th and 6th in Germany, imagine if they had sent them at the proper time in Q2. Same thing in Silverstone, didn't send them out to make a lap when the track was dry.

Pit stops have been an absolute mess too. All season. Yes, Checo overran a kerb in Malaysia, but he would have been ahead of Alonso way before that moment if they hadn't messed up his pit stop. Missed the points in Korea for the same reason.

And I don't even need to mention how they have messed up Kobayashi's races, it's well documented here and on his thread.

The team as a whole was caught by their own competitiveness by surprise, putting it all on the drivers only tells me they aren't growing at all.

#907 Slowinfastout

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 15:47

Now, even Monisha acknowledges this fact : http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103930


Yep, true or not, absolutely none of this sounds good for Kobayashi.. she's basically saying he's inconsistent like a rookie.

(same applies to Perez but he's gone so it's irrelevant.)

Edited by Slowinfastout, 02 November 2012 - 16:08.


#908 DracoN

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 17:01

Team is more inconsistent than drivers

#909 Slowinfastout

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 17:10

Team is more inconsistent than drivers


That might be true but the fact remains the team boss is pitching Hulkenberg as the experienced, safe pair of hands compared to her own current drivers.

You'd expect her to say that in the context of a departing 22yrs old Perez, but to bundle Kobayashi in that is pretty much the kiss of death, or even the bite of death..

#910 XOR

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 17:48

I believe all this bs is nothing but a preparation to signing another mexican driver.

#911 amarelo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 17:54

I believe all this bs is nothing but a preparation to signing another mexican driver.


It seams that way. Just PR talk to justify the exchange.

#912 Bunchies

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:02

Oh look, Kobayashi brings home the points again to close down Merc in the WCC late in the season.

Just as expected, and as solid as always.

What sort of bullshit excuses is Sauber going to come up with now? I follow Sauber because Kobayashi provides the most excitement on screen. They are worth nothing to me without Kamui behind the wheel. Kobayashi had the chance to win at Spa.

Edited by Bunchies, 04 November 2012 - 15:06.


#913 mich

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:10

Crazy guy have committed a huge blunder again!
He was fast enough to overtake slower FI and Grosjean without such a attack! He was fastest excepting top 3 teams and Raikkonen.
Team lost about 5 points! It was very critical for constructors championship.
Only his contribution was Schumi's puncture for debris made by him.

Kamui Kobayashi was slower than Perez about 0.5sec/lap in sector 2; it was same in qualify. What is wrong?
But he completed his task, good start and good job!

#914 Bunchies

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:37

Kamui Kobayashi was slower than Perez about 0.5sec/lap in sector 2; it was same in qualify. What is wrong?
But he completed his task, good start and good job!


What is the straight line speed comparison between the 2? Sector 2 is long straights.

#915 dau

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:59

What is the straight line speed comparison between the 2? Sector 2 is long straights.

Max. speeds in intermediate 2:

KOB 298.8
PER 309.1

Koba suffered from understeer the whole weekend and he was incredibly slow in the first stint. But the start was great and he brought the points home at least - Perez would probably have finished 5th, but he threw it away. I hope they can get better setups for the final two races, they only need 13 more points over Merc.

Edited by dau, 04 November 2012 - 16:00.


#916 muramasa

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 16:18

Crazy guy have committed a huge blunder again!
He was fast enough to overtake slower FI and Grosjean without such a attack! He was fastest excepting top 3 teams and Raikkonen.
Team lost about 5 points! It was very critical for constructors championship.
Only his contribution was Schumi's puncture for debris made by him.

ey hey, it was not that crazy, just tad naive to come back to take apex from off-track like that. in such track layout, full of 90 degree corners and pointy apex corners, such kind of accident is waiting to happen. He wasnt alone, Maldo done it, Webber done it too, Vettel had some comical moments as well.

Kamui Kobayashi was slower than Perez about 0.5sec/lap in sector 2; it was same in qualify. What is wrong?
But he completed his task, good start and good job!

Sauber is slow on straight, which probably made Perez try harder there to some degree.

as for Kamui, sth was wrong with his car for whole weekend certainly. Yesterday he said the car had simply horrible balance and suggested setup issue.
in comparison to Massa for the final 20 laps or so for example, Kamui was 0.2sec faster at S1, whopping 0.4 slower at S2 alone, just a touch faster in S3.
Overall, he was quite fast in S1, really awful in S2, quite ok in S3.


#917 midgrid

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:56

In the team's press release, Kobayashi says that his KERS was not working properly throughout the race, which would explain his lack of pace in S2. Nevertheless, great result for him, fortunate but deserved considering his problems in earlier races. PĂ©rez was quick but he hasn't had a clean race since he signed for McLaren...

#918 dionisi

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:08

Two more races like this (with out di restas) and mercedes can wave goodbye to their 5th place at constructors championship

#919 muramasa

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:44


Kamui's post race interview (in Japanese)
http://www.f1-stinge.../05/042399.html

rough translation;

had KERS trouble, could not fully use KERS
the clutch slip when downshifting
hence caused severe instability to brake balance, especially tough on hard braking
those issues affecting lap time badly, so quite tough race overall

communicate with engineers to control the issue as much as possible
kept adjusting various settings

had the trouble from very early stage of the race
timing of the 1st safety car helped alot as that point of the race the issue was at its worst state

was saving tyres actually when closed in on by Massa before 2nd safety car came out. that he could control and open the gap to Massa after SC in was positive point of the race



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#920 One

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:14

Great focus from Kamui. Looking back, Kamui is a lot mroe focued in geting points than Perez, who seems to play the role of emotional protagonis who fails. Guyss Mac had made some wrong choice here.

Got to say I am exited to see Sauber coming very close to Merc. Two car point finish in the remaining two races might do the work, even for just one points, win is a win!

#921 Talisman

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:23

Great focus from Kamui. Looking back, Kamui is a lot mroe focued in geting points than Perez, who seems to play the role of emotional protagonis who fails. Guyss Mac had made some wrong choice here.

Got to say I am exited to see Sauber coming very close to Merc. Two car point finish in the remaining two races might do the work, even for just one points, win is a win!


Perez seems to go for glory or nothing. With a bit of patience he'd have found a way past Di Resta/Grosjean without difficulty IMO.

Anyway the points gap has been cut by 1/3 with Merc and Brazil at least should be more favourable for Sauber. They can still do it.

As for Monisha's comments, if Kamui was out of the picture they'd have formally announced Gutierrez ages ago or at least with Hulkenberg anyway. Kobayashi still has a chance for securing a drive with them next season. Or maybe he should target Grosjean's seat (who should also have been confirmed again for next year ages ago but hasn't) so they can form the first Japanese driver/engineer pairing.

#922 One

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:32

Perez seems to go for glory or nothing. With a bit of patience he'd have found a way past Di Resta/Grosjean without difficulty IMO.

Anyway the points gap has been cut by 1/3 with Merc and Brazil at least should be more favourable for Sauber. They can still do it.

As for Monisha's comments, if Kamui was out of the picture they'd have formally announced Gutierrez ages ago or at least with Hulkenberg anyway. Kobayashi still has a chance for securing a drive with them next season. Or maybe he should target Grosjean's seat (who should also have been confirmed again for next year ages ago but hasn't) so they can form the first Japanese driver/engineer pairing.


True this is what I mean, and say Perez is a true opportunist who is actually depended on wicked strategy, which paid of big time this year. Good for him.
Koba on the contrary is much more calf guy off te track, but I still love the way he race on track. great asset.

#923 race addicted

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:42

I didn't expect points for Sauber today, or a very competitive performance, but Kobayashi was very awake at the start and put himself an amazing 8th after lap one!
Perez had a little more pace, but I'm not too surprised to see him DNF.
Sauber should do well I think, on the last two tracks, so there's a chance of catching Mercedes.

#924 mich

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:24

Oh! Kobayashi lost his KERS and had a problem of downshifting!
This is the reason of very slow S2!

#925 shonguiz

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:52

Although the steep hill on the approach to Turn 1 has caught many people's attention, Sauber's Kamui Kobayashi believes there is not much to it.

"For me, this is nothing. It's nothing like Spa," he said. "It's just higher uphill. Nothing special really. In Portugal there's a circuit where we did one test, Algarve, that's like that, but this is higher.

"All the journalists are very excited, but for me we've driven more exciting ones."


You gotta love him.

#926 BetaVersion

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 18:39

Car looks ok in Austin, hopefully it allows Sauber to pass Mercedes in WCC

#927 DracoN

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 18:44

Oeh :mad:

#928 Talisman

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 18:46

Sauber really suffering from these overly conservative tyre choices by Pirelli... I think tomorrow the pace will be better just as it was in Abu Dhabi.

#929 BetaVersion

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:14

Pace was rubbish today, but what matter is that we need crazy races and good race pace in order to get the points to jump Mercedes in WCC. That's all I care now, really

#930 DracoN

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:46

Kobayashi is nowhere.
Go perez take some good points.

#931 dau

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:35

There were both nowhere to be honest. Need a lot of luck to get that 5th place now.

#932 BetaVersion

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:58

The eternal crappy mechanical grip of Sauber cars made impossible to jump Mercedes despite W03 being pathetic and a joke :cry:

#933 mich

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:09

2nd pitstop timing was perfect but...

Sauber F1 Team ?@OfficialSF1Team
#Kamui on Inters now. It was a long stop. Problem front left wheel

Sauber F1 Team ?@OfficialSF1Team
Just in case... We have put the full wets to the front of the garage

Was it very interesting joke or a team order to block Vettel for Alonso as a second team of Ferrari?
Also was overtaken by Alonso after overtaking him?

Edited by mich, 25 November 2012 - 20:32.


#934 amarelo

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:45

Once again Sauber cost one of their drivers a great result, Koba should have been in front of Webber and was behind Vettel??? And then they say their drivers let them down. Pfff.

With a normal stop they would had pass Mercedes in the championship and it would have been an excellent farewell from the great fighter.

#935 Bunchies

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:30

Once again Sauber cost one of their drivers a great result, Koba should have been in front of Webber and was behind Vettel??? And then they say their drivers let them down. Pfff.

With a normal stop they would had pass Mercedes in the championship and it would have been an excellent farewell from the great fighter.


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