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1966 Sadler-Alfa (not the Canadian Bill Sadler)


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#1 Revival

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 08:37

We are in the final stage of purchasing a 1966 Sadler-Alfa (GTA 1600 cc powered) sports racer from New Zealand. It was built around 1965/66 by Mike Sadler who passed away a few years back before we could get any information on this special and I might add very attractive racer.
Our plan is to import it and restore the Sadler-Alfa for next years Goodwood Revival.
The car has it's original alloy body work and molds for fiberglass replacements that are on the Sadler at present. We are looking for any information or photos of this Sadler-Afla that the Nostalgia members can share.

I'll see if I can get some photos loaded here?

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#2 E1pix

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 08:41

I'll see if I can get some photos loaded here?

Welcome to the Forum.

I take it you're unsure how to load photos? This should help, and what may here use:
http://forums.autosp...showtopic=70638

#3 Revival

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:12

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#4 Revival

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:56

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#5 MalcolmC

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 19:29

We are looking for any information or photos of this Sadler-Afla that the Nostalgia members can share.


Here's a couple of photos from 1999. The driver is listed as Tony Bowman for the Pukekohe event.
http://i1179.photobu...04_Pukekohe.jpg
http://i1179.photobu...08-08_Taupo.jpg

I might have some more recent photos. I'll keep looking.

Malcolm

#6 Revival

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 22:10

Here's a couple of photos from 1999. The driver is listed as Tony Bowman for the Pukekohe event.
http://i1179.photobu...04_Pukekohe.jpg
http://i1179.photobu...08-08_Taupo.jpg

I might have some more recent photos. I'll keep looking.

Malcolm


Hello Malcolm..
Fantastic shots!
We are really trying to find information from the early days...if you know of anything? trying to locate the person or company who built the alloy body, or any people who actually worked with Mike Sadler on the design and original build...The history and provenance is important as well to try to get a invitation to Goodwood and other important events next year. do you know anything about Mike Sadler?...did he build other race cars?
tThank you, I look forward to anything else you can offer...


www.HistoricRacing.co.nz

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 22:58

Where was the car built?

#8 Revival

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 19:21

Where was the car built?

Somewhere in New Zealand during 1965 & 1966 by Mike Sadler..That's all I know so far.

#9 David McKinney

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 21:28

I was following sportscar racing in NZ very closely in that period and don't remember the name of either builder or car. That suggests it was either used in very minor local events or - more likely - raced under another name

The front of the car - back to the rollover bar - is very reminiscent of a Wellington-built car which raced with 650 BSA engine first under the name of BSA Special in 1965, then Cougar, and after being fitted with a Hillman Imp engine, as the Imperell. It was being raced in vintage events in Canterbury about 20 years ago



#10 opplock

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 22:19

It also looks similar to the Condor. According to Vercoe's book, Historic Racing Cars of New Zealand, this was built around 1966 by David Broad, with alloy body by Steve Roberts. The car was powered by a 1340cc Ford engine. It appeared on the entry list for the Levin meeting on 26 November 1966 to be driven by D Broad.

"Believed to have gone to Canada around 1974", Vercoe.

Several NZ built sportscars were built to be ultra low. As well as Condor and Imperill there was also the Mirage 1. That was also Ford powered. None of them appear to have been successful on the circuits.

#11 David McKinney

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 23:01

It also looks similar to the Condor

Not similar enough, I didn't think :)


#12 MalcolmC

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 04:57

... do you know anything about Mike Sadler?...did he build other race cars?
Thank you, I look forward to anything else you can offer...


I've had a good look through my references without any luck, sorry.
I'd just assumed it was one of Bill Sadler's cars or a copy of one (if you squint it looks a bit like the Mk.V) but if you say it's not, I'll believe you.

I notice that in the programmes for the two NZFMR events at Hampton Downs, the Sadler is listed as a 1969 car.

Here's a couple more photos from 1999.
http://i1179.photobu...-28_Taupo-a.jpg
http://i1179.photobu...-28_Taupo-b.jpg

Malcolm

#13 Ted Walker

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:37

Dont want to p... on anyones bonfire, but does this device have an International comprtition history in order to obtain an HTP ?????

#14 hiteknz

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:49

In the past I have also looked at this car and tried to get some information for the then owner ,but like David I have been around the motor racing and Sports Car scene here for a good number of years ,and I can't remember it in the past ,if some one comes up with a bit more of a timeline for its movements ,it might help

#15 David McKinney

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:50

If, as I suspect, it's the BSA Special/Cougar/Imperell, it would have appeared mainly in Wellington area hillclimbs, with occasional appearances at Levin race meetings

See photo on p.154 of Vercoe's book

#16 Revival

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:51

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#17 Revival

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:54

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Remains of a old Log Book

#18 Revival

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:58

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#19 Revival

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 11:11

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Old New Zealand Log Book

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#20 Revival

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 11:22

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This was just sent to me...looks like it was owned once by a Grant Martin in Auckland in 2002

#21 Ted Walker

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 16:09

Is this an NZ HTP ???? Mr Red Socks ???????????

#22 Revival

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 17:04

MR. REDSOCKS?
The address on the right hand corner is New Zealand Motorsport Inc.
I don't think this Sadler ever left NZ..

#23 David McKinney

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 18:16

But is it an HTP?

(Also, it looks like 'Motor Sport New Zealand Inc' to me :) )

#24 opplock

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 18:50

Whatever the origins of this car the engine must be a later addition. I think it unlikely that a Kiwi special builder would have used such an exotic engine in the 1960's even if one were obtainable. It is even more unlikely that an Alfa powered car would have gone unnoticed.

#25 hiteknz

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 19:04

The Red Document is The earlier NZ motorsport log book which all cars had to have ,I still have the original one for my car that was built 1982
The COD is a later Document that you have to apply for,which gives the vehicle a clasification of what class it fits in
What are the description and the scrutineering dates and comments in the Red Book ?

#26 Red Socks

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 19:06

Is this an NZ HTP ???? Mr Red Socks ???????????

No it is the NZ national equivalent.
No doubt the proud new owner will be trying to blag it throught the system any minute now.
But for Goodwood who gives a ...., they don't!

#27 MalcolmC

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 19:41

If, as I suspect, it's the BSA Special/Cougar/Imperell, it would have appeared mainly in Wellington area hillclimbs, with occasional appearances at Levin race meetings

See photo on p.154 of Vercoe's book


I haven't got Vercoe's book with me at the moment, so the following info might be redundant.
The Nov '65 issue of the Hutt Valley Motoring Club Magazine mentions a Cougar, driven by Basil Jones, placing first equal at the Te Maire Rd Straight Sprint on 2 Oct (the win was shared with T.G.Turtill in his V8 Mercury Special). The magazine also states the Cougar was powered by a 2504cc Holden motor.

Malcolm

#28 David McKinney

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 21:35

Different Cougar :)

(though Basil Jones did also drive the 650)

#29 richardspringett

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:02

There are many versions of Alfa Romeo race engines and others more knowledgeable can surely reply. Dry sumped types were comparatively rare - post #4 - with which I am not particularly familiar but the inlet manifold would appear to be much later as is the breathing system.

However, the single distinguishing characteristic of the GTA is the twin plug head and from what I can determine from the plug leads of the engine in question is single plug.

Richard

#30 Revival

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:15

Hello Richard,
Well spotted.. yes you are right, the engine in the photo is a 1600cc single plug Alfa engine but we have the original twin-plug GTA engine with the Sadler that is being rebuilt and it is confirmed by the tuning company to be the proper type with correct ID numbers on the block and head etc. The GTA engine that will go in the Sadler once restored was built in 1965.

#31 ROGETS10

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 04:45

This car was built in Christchurch, New Zealand. Originally powered with a Ford V4, I think.

My good friend Grant Martin purchased the car some years back with a Toyota engine fitted and replaced it with the Alfa motor. Most certainly not a Canadian Sadler.

#32 Revival

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:44

This car was built in Christchurch, New Zealand. Originally powered with a Ford V4, I think.

My good friend in New Zealand knows Grant Martin, he purchased the car some years back with a Toyota engine fitted and replaced it with the Alfa motor. Most certainly not a Canadian Sadler.


We know Grant Martin well. My friend in NZ pits with him with his F2 against his Formula Atlantic.
(He has just bought a Talon F5000 project.)

Grant did refit the V4, and he also built the fibreglass mould and body, to save the original alloy one.
But he knows less about the early history than we do. It has nothing to do with Bill Sadler in Canada.
The V4 was not the original motor in the car, that was fitted in the early '70s

#33 ROGETS10

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:56

I'll provide a little more history when time allows.

Suffice to say this is a car with very little pedigree.

NZ is a small country and as such it's fairly easy to track histories of locally built cars.

#34 David McKinney

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:35

... which is why I'm surprised I haven't come across any previous reference to it :)

#35 ROGETS10

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:25

... which is why I'm surprised I haven't come across any previous reference to it :)


Watch this space my friend and I'll provide a little more history - there isn't much. I believe the bodywork was done by Auto Restorations
in CH.CH.

You really have to come back and chew the fat over a few fine NZ ales & NZ reds. Our boutique brewers have beers that will make you forget all about pommie brews. Joy may even cook you a good NZ roast.

#36 ROGETS10

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:35

David,

Did not want to leave you in suspenders any longer. "Ye Gods!" Morrie croft was the guy who had the car built and the Sadler family acquired it fron him.

No real racing history that I can substantiate until Grant Martin bought it.

A reasonably attractive car but?

#37 David McKinney

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:52

Afraid I've got a taste for the pommie brown stuff now...

The question about the Sadler remains, was it actually built around 1966?

#38 ROGETS10

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:01

Afraid I've got a taste for the pommie brown stuff now...

The question about the Sadler remains, was it actually built around 1966?


Will do a little more homework and let you know.

Wait until you try "Harringtons Wobbly Boot". Nothing to do with Roy by the way.

#39 ROGETS10

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:25

Probably not 1966. No doubt you remember the name "Arthur Moffat"?

Would take me a few phone calls to verify the build year but really I don't give a stuff. Frankly I find it odd that the chap proposing to buy the car states he knows my mate Grant Martin, well, yet seems to know less than I do about the car.

Too many "replicas & fakes, cars predated, etc" makes me want to throw up. Might ignore these forums in future. Guess that depends on spare time available and whether I can actually be bothered. Too many "old woman" and not enough realists.

Cheers,

Russ