170 replies to this topic

[Pedro 917]

Please sign the petition here

[2Bob]

Please sign the petition here

A worthy cause! I had just signed up and was about to create a thread here to find you had already done so, well done.

[RStock]

Done!

[Stephen W]

Done!

Me too!

[ChrisJson]

+ 1

[Giraffe]

I'm there.


By giraffe138 at 2011-12-31

Edited by Giraffe, 31 December 2011 - 17:36.

[Levin68]

Done.

[dank]

Surely it would be more beneficial to go here and fill in a nomination, rather than complete some pointless online petition?

[Alan Cox]

Surely it would be more beneficial to go here and fill in a nomination, rather than complete some pointless online petition?

Indeed. This is the way to present nominations to the people who are actually in a position to do something about it.

[Pedro 917]

Maybe it's the intention of the guy who started it to send it there ....

[Ross Stonefeld]

Surely it would be more beneficial to go here and fill in a nomination, rather than complete some pointless online petition?

Especially when these things are often just ways to collect email addresses for spam purposes.

[RStock]

Especially when these things are often just ways to collect email addresses for spam purposes.

With folks like Peter Windsor behind it I would think not.

[dank]

With folks like Peter Windsor behind it I would think not.

I think you perhaps have too much faith in what people will unknowningly link to.

Petitionbuzz is an American run website that looks like it was coded by a 13-year-old in his spare time. If, and I emphasise if, any online petition is going to be taken seriously, then it needs to be conducted through the e-petition website.

Edited by dank, 31 December 2011 - 22:26.

[RStock]

I think you perhaps have too much faith in what people will unknowningly link to.

Petitionbuzz is an American run website that looks like it was coded by a 13-year-old in his spare time. If, and I emphasise if, any online petition is going to be taken seriously, then it needs to be conducted through the e-petition website.

There is a space for comments towards the bottom of the page the petition is on. Perhaps you should leave one warning everyone that it is a scam.

[Frank S]

Does anyone reckon that one more "leak" of an email address is injurious at this point in the history of communication? Does anyone apply a useful email address to any of this kind of solicitation?

[RA Historian]

Back to the subject. I see that the list is out, and my local (US) paper mentions Rory McIlroy, actresses, Nobel Prize winners, etc, but made no mention of any racing figure. So, did any racing figure receive an honor?

Tom

[bill p]

Back to the subject. I see that the list is out, and my local (US) paper mentions Rory McIlroy, actresses, Nobel Prize winners, etc, but made no mention of any racing figure. So, did any racing figure receive an honor?

Tom

Adrian Newey awarded an OBE for services to motorsport and Nigel Mansell, already an OBE, a CBE for services to children and young people in his role as president of charity UK Youth.

Edited by bill p, 01 January 2012 - 16:56.

[Amphicar]

I wholeheartedly agree that John Surtees deserved a knighthood for his achievements in two and four wheeled motorsport. However, I note that the guidance notes for honours nominations state that

"Nominations should be made while the nominee is still active and, if possible, at least 12 months before he/she is expected to retire or stand down, because of the timeframe involved."

A knighthood would therefore have to be awarded for John Surtees's current activities not his past successes, great though those are. I note that Nigel Mansell's CBE in today's New Year Honours is for his charitable work as President of UK Youth not his past racing exploits (for which he was previously awarded an OBE). Similarly, John Surtees was awarded an MBE in 1959 for his contributions to motor cycle racing and an OBE in 2008 for services to motorsport and charity.

[Vitesse2]

I wholeheartedly agree that John Surtees deserved a knighthood for his achievements in two and four wheeled motorsport. However, I note that the guidance notes for honours nominations state that

"Nominations should be made while the nominee is still active and, if possible, at least 12 months before he/she is expected to retire or stand down, because of the timeframe involved."

A knighthood would therefore have to be awarded for John Surtees's current activities not his past successes, great though those are. I note that Nigel Mansell's CBE in today's New Year Honours is for his charitable work as President of UK Youth not his past racing exploits (for which he was previously awarded an OBE). Similarly, John Surtees was awarded an MBE in 1959 for his contributions to motor cycle racing and an OBE in 2008 for services to motorsport and charity.

Sporting knighthoods are few and far between. Unless I've missed someone, the only four in motor sport since WW2 are Brabham, Stewart, Williams and Moss. With the greatest respect to Il Grande John, I don't think his career quite reaches the same heights.

Stirling's K was long overdue, but I think I'm right in saying he's the only non-World Champion F1 driver appointed OBE. An MBE is actually par for the course for a World Championship these days (Button, Hamilton). In the 60s, a gong wasn't automatic - I'll need to research it, but I don't think Clark or Hill received their OBEs until after their second titles (both in the Wilson era, when the Honours List was getting more populist). Hawthorn didn't get one at all: possibly because he (like Moss) had come in for much criticism for avoiding National Service?

[kayemod]

Sporting knighthoods are few and far between. Unless I've missed someone, the only four in motor sport since WW2 are Brabham, Stewart, Williams and Moss. With the greatest respect to Il Grande John, I don't think his career quite reaches the same heights.

Without wishing to hijack this thread, there's another racing figure who must surely qualify on every possible count. I know he already has a CBE, but "Arise Sir Ronald Dennis."

[eldougo]

Kayemod........Its the 1st of January not the 1st of April.

[kayemod]

Kayemod........Its the 1st of January not the 1st of April.

Oh alright then, "Arise Lord Ronald of Woking!"

[garoidb]

I wholeheartedly agree that John Surtees deserved a knighthood for his achievements in two and four wheeled motorsport. However, I note that the guidance notes for honours nominations state that

"Nominations should be made while the nominee is still active and, if possible, at least 12 months before he/she is expected to retire or stand down, because of the timeframe involved."

A knighthood would therefore have to be awarded for John Surtees's current activities not his past successes, great though those are. I note that Nigel Mansell's CBE in today's New Year Honours is for his charitable work as President of UK Youth not his past racing exploits (for which he was previously awarded an OBE). Similarly, John Surtees was awarded an MBE in 1959 for his contributions to motor cycle racing and an OBE in 2008 for services to motorsport and charity.

Sporting knighthoods are few and far between. Unless I've missed someone, the only four in motor sport since WW2 are Brabham, Stewart, Williams and Moss. With the greatest respect to Il Grande John, I don't think his career quite reaches the same heights.

Stirling's K was long overdue, but I think I'm right in saying he's the only non-World Champion F1 driver appointed OBE. An MBE is actually par for the course for a World Championship these days (Button, Hamilton). In the 60s, a gong wasn't automatic - I'll need to research it, but I don't think Clark or Hill received their OBEs until after their second titles (both in the Wilson era, when the Honours List was getting more populist). Hawthorn didn't get one at all: possibly because he (like Moss) had come in for much criticism for avoiding National Service?

I have to say I can see why they don't award knighthoods in 2011/12 for achievements in the 1960s and also not purely for sporting achievements. The phrase "services to motorsport" springs to mind, and presumably involves helping others or developing the industry. Certainly, Stewart and Williams would fit this bill, and Brabham too perhaps (awarded in 1978). I don't really see the distinction between Stirling Moss and John Surtees as far as "services to motorsport" go (no doubt I will be corrected), and it seems his was awarded in 2000.

[Vitesse2]

I have to say I can see why they don't award knighthoods in 2011/12 for achievements in the 1960s and also not purely for sporting achievements. The phrase "services to motorsport" springs to mind, and presumably involves helping others or developing the industry. Certainly, Stewart and Williams would fit this bill, and Brabham too perhaps (awarded in 1978). I don't really see the distinction between Stirling Moss and John Surtees as far as "services to motorsport" go (no doubt I will be corrected), and it seems his was awarded in 2000.

Much of it may very well be down to public recognition of the name. I doubt any police officer has ever greeted a speeding driver with: "So 'oo do you think you are - John Surtees?"

Sir Stirling, like the much-missed Sir 'Enery, had achieved "national treasure" status. They both got their Ks in the same list as Norman Wisdom, Sean Connery, Richard Branson and Alan Sugar.

Again, I don't wish to denigrate Il Grande John, but the apocryphal man on the Clapham omnibus would probably not recognise his name. Sir Stirling or Sir 'Enery, on the other hand, had public profiles outside their sports.

Edited by Vitesse2, 02 January 2012 - 13:43.

[kayemod]

I doubt any police officer has ever greeted a speeding driver with: "So 'oo do you think you are - John Surtees?"

I bet lots of them did on the Isle of Man though.

[Giraffe]

Back to the subject. I see that the list is out, and my local (US) paper mentions Rory McIlroy, actresses, Nobel Prize winners, etc, but made no mention of any racing figure. So, did any racing figure receive an honor?

Tom

See the Peter Cates thread for another recipient of an award in this year's honour's list.......

[elansprint72]

If we chucked out the "Monarchy" and the House of "Lords" then there would be no need to give folks badges for doing their day job. I mean no disrespect; JS has been a hero of mine for yonks.

Jamie Oliver- a cook, has an MBE, as has the school dinner lady who inspired him. Apparently.

Mad world.

[Doug Nye]

Your point being...?

DCN

[elansprint72]

Your point being...?

DCN

Doug,
Where should I start? Two of my close friends were in the recent list; one has raised millions for charity without seeking any reward; the other went to work in his over-paid job, going thro' the motions and taking every junket offered. They got the same badge.

Surtees is just one of many who have
not been recognised by the reprehensible system in place, whilst others, of far less merit, slither through...

Edited by elansprint72, 02 January 2012 - 23:14.

[kayemod]

Doug,
Where should I start? Two of my close friends were in the recent list; one has raised millions for charity without seeking any reward; the other went to work in his over-paid job, going thro' the motions and taking every junket offered. They got the same badge.

Surtees is just one of many who have
not been recognised by the reprehensible system in place, whilst others, of far less merit, slither through...

My dear sister is Lady Rosemary XXXXX. My brother-in-law was knighted last year "For services to healthcare", no doubt as well deserved as most honours of this kind, but it could be said that sis was elevated just for washing his socks for around thirty years.

[Amphicar]

Surtees is just one of many who have not been recognised by the reprehensible system in place, whilst others, of far less merit, slither through...

I agree that for most people the honours system is little better than a lottery but it isn't true that John Surtees has not been recognised at all: he was awarded an MBE in 1959 for his contributions to motor cycle racing and an OBE in 2008 for services to motorsport and charity.

I say that for most people honours are a lottery because there is one sure-fire route to a gong - if, like Paul Ruddock, James Wates, James Lupton and Doug Ellis, you give the Conservative Party getting on for £1 million, you can be sure of a knighthood or at least a CBE. Alternatively, like Ron Aldridge, you could secretly lend the Labour Party a million quid and get a knighthood or for just a £330,000 donation like Denise Coates's pick up a CBE.

[Vitesse2]

I say that for most people honours are a lottery because there is one sure-fire route to a gong - if, like Paul Ruddock, James Wates, James Lupton and Doug Ellis, you give the Conservative Party getting on for £1 million, you can be sure of a knighthood or at least a CBE. Alternatively, like Ron Aldridge, you could secretly lend the Labour Party a million quid and get a knighthood or for just a £330,000 donation like Denise Coates's pick up a CBE.

I've often wondered if a certain diminutive ex-car dealer was promised he could expect a letter from Her Maj round about Christmas '97 ...;)

A reasonably senior civil service post - expecially if long-serving - is usually considered a standard route to a gong. However, at least within certain departments it depends on being able to give the right sort of handshake.

Edited by Vitesse2, 03 January 2012 - 14:49.

[David McKinney]

My dear sister is Lady Rosemary XXXXX

Are you both the progeny of an earl, then? Or is she really Rosemary, Lady XXXXX?

[kayemod]

Are you both the progeny of an earl, then? Or is she really Rosemary, Lady XXXXX?

Not sure, I'll check with Her Ladyship.

[Mr Plug]

Is the motorsport contribution of John Surtees (112 GPs, 6 wins, not-very successful race-car manufacturer) SO much higher than that of Ron Dennis, or even of Patrick Head who afaik has no honour at all?

Adrian Newey got an OBE as did Ross Brawn. Even Eric Broadley got an MBE, so I am quite sure Patrick Head deserves a bit of Royal recognition!

[Vitesse2]

Is the motorsport contribution of John Surtees (112 GPs, 6 wins, not-very successful race-car manufacturer) SO much higher than that of Ron Dennis, or even of Patrick Head who afaik has no honour at all?

Adrian Newey got an OBE as did Ross Brawn. Even Eric Broadley got an MBE, so I am quite sure Patrick Head deserves a bit of Royal recognition!

Well, nominate him then!

[BRG]

A reasonably senior civil service post - expecially if long-serving - is usually considered a standard route to a gong. However, at least within certain departments it depends on being able to give the right sort of handshake.

I noticed that a former colleague of mine was honoured in this round. I wouldn't have given her the time of day as she was one of those who felt that the rules didn't apply to people like her. But she seems to have a powerful patron (nothing untoward as she is no oil painting) and that has aided her rise and subsequent gong.

I am sure the same thing happens in every country with an honours system (and most have one).

Edited by BRG, 03 January 2012 - 20:20.

[Ross Stonefeld]

If we chucked out the "Monarchy" and the House of "Lords" then there would be no need to give folks badges for doing their day job. I mean no disrespect; JS has been a hero of mine for yonks.

Jamie Oliver- a cook, has an MBE, as has the school dinner lady who inspired him. Apparently.

Mad world.

Did Oliver get his for selling cookbooks or for all the work he's done to improve the quality of school meals?

[Amphicar]

Did Oliver get his for selling cookbooks or for all the work he's done to improve the quality of school meals?

"For services to the hospitality industry": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2988426.stm

[elansprint72]

Did Oliver get his for selling cookbooks or for all the work he's done to improve the quality of school meals?

Neither. He's done rather well with the first but as to the second; don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail (my wife is a teacher, btw).

[Ross Stonefeld]

I haven't been keeping track, is the Mail overwhelmingly pro-Oliver or trying to get him deported?

[Glengavel]

I haven't been keeping track, is the Mail overwhelmingly pro-Oliver or trying to get him deported?

Depends whether or not he's working for the BBC, and his influence on house prices.

[Barry Boor]

Is it me? I thought we'd been through the 'knighthood for John Surtees' years ago.

It didn't have any effect then and I don't think it will now. If he were going to get one, he'd have had it long ago.

[RStock]

Perhaps we should develop a special TNF Knighthood for those so deserving.

[Collombin]

Perhaps we should develop a special TNF Knighthood for those so deserving.

Not a bad idea. Race game programming maestro Geoff Crammond was knighted by the leading games magazine of the time, and known as Sir Geoffrey Crammond by them and their readership ever after, so there's no reason why John shouldn't be Sir Tees on TNF.

[Frank S]

Not a bad idea. Race game programming maestro Geoff Crammond was knighted by the leading games magazine of the time, and known as Sir Geoffrey Crammond by them and their readership ever after, so there's no reason why John shouldn't be Sir Tees on TNF.

Actually, it seems to me the wealth of esteem and affection shown for John Surtees in these halls is substantial itself, and Sir-ing him might be more likely to diminish than enhance its value.

[cheapracer]

No - If Alan Jones didn't like him then neither do I!

[Derwent Motorsport]

Chris Evans was on about this on his Radio 2 show this morning. he also campaigned a few months back for Adrian Newey to be honoured. I am always impressed that Chris does genuinely know what he is talking about when he mentions racing, as he often does.

[David Lawson]

I was listening to this show, Chris Evans gave a lot of air time to this subject and talked very enthusiastically and knowledgeably about John Surtees quoting a lot of accurate statistics about his racing career and achievements on bikes and in cars.

David

Edited by David Lawson, 12 January 2012 - 09:32.

[Amphicar]

John Surtees has evidently been under-awarded - I've just seen a thread on another site urging people to write to the Vatican asking that Ayrton Senna be canonised!