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Marussia F1 - 2012


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#1 olliek88

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 14:06

Marussia F1 (Formerly Virgin Racing) really need to kick on in 2012 after a disappointing 2011 which showed little progress.

Hopefully having ditched Wirth Research and a new tie up with McLaren, which includes use of their wind tunnel, they can really start to move up from the back of the grid and start to show some progression.

Having Timo Glock in the line up is a massive boost again, a very good, underrated driver and essential if they want to start getting serious. Charles Pic is a decent driver too, his record in GP2 doesn't really do justice to how well he actually performed at times last season, he had good speed but the consistency lacked a bit.

So, how will they get on in 2012? Personally i think the Mclaren deal will be a massive boost, they really needed the use of a wind tunnel and that has to be one of the best around but i fear it has come a bit too late for this year, i'm not sure they can challenge the midfield just yet but i hope i'm wrong!


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#2 Anderis

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 14:10

Having Timo Glock in the line up is a massive boost again, a very good, underrated driver

I would rather say overrated. He couldn't really match Trulli at Toyota, and when you look at lap times lap by lap from this season, d'Ambrosio was matching his pace more often than not.
Glock is good solid driver, good enough to be in F1, but not good enough to lead the team with ambitions IMO. He's lacking pure speed a little, although it doesn't matter when the car is 4-5 seconds off the pace, and it's certainly better for Marussia to have him, than inexperienced mediocre pay-driver.

I hope that they will be closer to older teams next season, and so will other teams which joined in 2010. There are some signs showing that they can do a solid progress, but the question is if the better teams won't do as well.

#3 lambylamby

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 14:29

I would rather say overrated. He couldn't really match Trulli at Toyota, and when you look at lap times lap by lap from this season, d'Ambrosio was matching his pace more often than not.
Glock is good solid driver, good enough to be in F1, but not good enough to lead the team with ambitions IMO. He's lacking pure speed a little, although it doesn't matter when the car is 4-5 seconds off the pace, and it's certainly better for Marussia to have him, than inexperienced mediocre pay-driver.

I hope that they will be closer to older teams next season, and so will other teams which joined in 2010. There are some signs showing that they can do a solid progress, but the question is if the better teams won't do as well.


Poppycock! He is good, and I believe the initial posts view, good enough to be a top 10 driver. Was it the biggest gap between drivers in Quali's between Glock and D'ambrosio?

I'm hoping for them to be 2.8 seconds off, but that may be wishful thinking. I'm waiting with anticipation with this tie up, but how close and how much great development will happen from this?

Anyhow, it's time to bury the HRT team this year, they openly admit that their year is going to be transitional, it's time to get back up with Caterham in terms of performance...

#4 phil1993

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 14:43

Timo is a quick, solid driver. I think his problem in 2011 was being a little disillusioned at times. He was expecting to challenge Lotus, but had some awful luck in the worst car on the grid.

#5 jamiegc

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 14:54

They need a massive push. If Marussia dont have the funding to push them on then they will end up being another Spyker/Midland

Edited by jamiegc, 01 January 2012 - 17:21.


#6 lambylamby

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 14:56

i would like a points structure change to make 11th and 12th positions grabable, to give smaller teams a chance to prove their points scoring possibilities.

#7 DanardiF1

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 15:54

i would like a points structure change to make 11th and 12th positions grabable, to give smaller teams a chance to prove their points scoring possibilities.


Surely proving their points scoring possibilities would be them getting a 10th place, not just shifting the structure backwards... they wouldn't have to prove anything then, just that they can finish a race.

#8 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 16:45

I like that logo, but somehow think the stripey thingies should be red white and blue like the Russian flag? Needs a bit o'colour.

#9 Clatter

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 16:52

i would like a points structure change to make 11th and 12th positions grabable, to give smaller teams a chance to prove their points scoring possibilities.


They already did that when they extended the points to 10th place. If they went to 11th, 12th there would still be complaints that the lower teams couldn't score points. If they were to change the system again then it would make more sense to have points all the way down the grid with only the last car scoring zero.

#10 olliek88

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 16:54

I like that logo, but somehow think the stripey thingies should be red white and blue like the Russian flag? Needs a bit o'colour.


 ;)

Heres another version of their logo!


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#11 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 17:01

Timo is an OK driver,way better than DiGrassi was,for instance.

The deal with Macca IMO should be a very interesting step foward to that team,hopefully they can challenge Caterham.

Meanwhile,Hispania only seems to be getting worse,this year will be very difficult to them,since they had lost the young Ricciardo and replaced him with 40 years old De La Rosa.I only expect HRT to fight for points in five or six years ahead.

#12 TURU

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 17:15

;)

Heres another version of their logo!


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Uhm, I don't think the Russians would like this logo. :lol:

#13 Fastcake

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 19:33

Well I am hoping for the team to be moving forward this year. It was a great shame that the CFD project did no pay off, but the new design team - are they still involved with Symonds? - will hopefully learn from Wirth's mistakes and become more competitive, at least to reach with whoever is on the bottom of the midfield. I don't have much faith in HRT next year, Caterham will probably be in the midfield and with the late technical team changes there won't be to much Marussia can do - but the McLaren technical partnership really helped Force India, so hoping for the same.

Glock is a decent driver, they are still on the back foot by employing the third new second driver in as many years, but having at least one experienced driver remains a positive.

#14 Francesc

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 20:16

This season they will be much, much better. Nick Wirth and his stupid only CFD aproach are gone, Symonds is helping them, they have a deal with McLaren, and the ban of hot blowing all of them will be a massive boost for them.

They will still be at the back, but less than half a second off the slower midfield teams.

But they seem to have a big problem with funding.

#15 g1n

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 20:22

;)

Heres another version of their logo!


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that is not a Russian flag :stoned: :rotfl:

#16 dau

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 21:37

that is not a Russian flag :stoned: :rotfl:

http://marussiamotors.ru//

#17 Massa

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 21:26

By Scarbs

More on the Mercedes hydraulic suspension...

The engineer most likely responsible for it is Rob Tuluie, he was at Renault when they developed their hydraulic interlinked suspension in 2009. His work on the front to rear interlinking lead to the discovery of the inertance of the fluid in the long lines and hence to the Fluid Inerter patent. Tuluie has since left Renault for Mercedes.

Renault as well as Ferrari and Marussia have these systems. While I know Williams other teams are looking at this, as are other teams if they do not already have it.

It interlinks front to rear, the main gain is the reduction in nose down pitch from aero loads or under braking. something not achievable in a practical way with mechanical suspension links. This gain is to allow lower static front wing ride heights, that do not degrade with speed or weight transfer.


In other words, it's ride heigh control.

#18 Disgrace

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:00

The lack of posts (of which the majority are about the logo) and the late entry of the thread says it all really, there isn't much of interest here. No real team-mate battle either. Their only aim seems not to come behind HRT for the third year running.

#19 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:26

I think that they will have a tough year in 2012, battling with HRT over which team will be the last in the standings, and filling the last 4 spots on the grid most of the season. Apart from Symonds and the Mercedes tie-in I see little to be positive about, I do not share the thread starters view on Pic, and expect that his seat may come under pressure quite early in the season, unless Petrov finds a seat somewhere else.

:cool:

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#20 Wingcommander

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:38

I think that they will have a tough year in 2012, battling with HRT over which team will be the last in the standings, and filling the last 4 spots on the grid most of the season. Apart from Symonds and the Mercedes tie-in I see little to be positive about



McLaren. ;) I very much doubt they could have a tougher year than what was in 2011. HRT are just starting the process of building a proper f1 team. Marussia already have all the pieces in place, now it's just the matter of putting them to good use. With better facilities and the McLaren deal i'm expecting them to pull clear from HRT, and start closing on the midfield. While no one really knows how far back they're going to be at the start of the season, i'd really like to see them actually making some progress during the season. We haven't seen that in the first two years.

I like to follow these three "new" team, and see if they are catching the oldtimers. So far Caterham has been doing the right thing. A solid technical team, buying the rear of the car from Red Bull, enough financial backing etc... they are on their way of becoming a respectable f1 team. Wirth tried to do things differently, and now the whole team is paying the price for that. They've been left behind by Caterham, and the next two years will be critical for the team's future. They need to catch the others. HRT have been a mess ever since Campos started the team. Kolles kept it afloat, and with the new owners it's starting to look like they could eventually make it.

#21 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:28

...

I like to follow these three "new" team, and see if they are catching the oldtimers. So far Caterham has been doing the right thing. A solid technical team, buying the rear of the car from Red Bull, enough financial backing etc... they are on their way of becoming a respectable f1 team. Wirth tried to do things differently, and now the whole team is paying the price for that. They've been left behind by Caterham, and the next two years will be critical for the team's future. They need to catch the others. HRT have been a mess ever since Campos started the team. Kolles kept it afloat, and with the new owners it's starting to look like they could eventually make it.


I like to follow them as well, in the past we have had many teams struggling in scoring points, the points proliferation does nothing for me, I was happy with first 6 scoring points. But the new teams need to show progress, and none of them have done anything substantial the first 2 seasons.

Minardi was a lovable minnow, scoring a grand 38 points in 340 races over 20 years those were the 'right' points, a small team actually making it to the finish among the first 6 in the race. With 10 spots getting points, just staying in the race is gifting points away, if someone sat down and allotted points for first 6 only both drivers and teams, there will be some who really have not done very well.

Reliability is too good.

If only all could be as when I was young.

:cool:


#22 jrg19

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:52

;)

Heres another version of their logo!


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Looks great better than Lotus and Caterhams attempts

#23 olliek88

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:08

I like to follow them as well, in the past we have had many teams struggling in scoring points, the points proliferation does nothing for me, I was happy with first 6 scoring points. But the new teams need to show progress, and none of them have done anything substantial the first 2 seasons.

Minardi was a lovable minnow, scoring a grand 38 points in 340 races over 20 years those were the 'right' points, a small team actually making it to the finish among the first 6 in the race. With 10 spots getting points, just staying in the race is gifting points away, if someone sat down and allotted points for first 6 only both drivers and teams, there will be some who really have not done very well.

Reliability is too good.

If only all could be as when I was young.

:cool:


I think the point allocation is about right now days to be honest, back in the day reliability was so bad that it was probably easier for the "lesser" teams to score points than it is now. If Marussia or HRT were to score a point next season you still suspect it would need to be in a race of quite high attrition, maybe Caterham too but i suspect they'll get a few points on merit alone next season.

#24 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:40

I think the point allocation is about right now days to be honest, back in the day reliability was so bad that it was probably easier for the "lesser" teams to score points than it is now. If Marussia or HRT were to score a point next season you still suspect it would need to be in a race of quite high attrition, maybe Caterham too but i suspect they'll get a few points on merit alone next season.


Since they are intent on the cost capping being an issue for the regulatory body to be part of, the engines basically never break any more, they have capped the cost, they have capped the number of cylinders. One of the arguments of F1's being is 'forefront of technology' but capping the engines is not doing that, they are making bespoke standard engines instead.

Make the rules.

Make an engine, have 1, 2 or 100 cylinders, make it atmospheric, turbo, compressor, wankel what ever you want - Rules can be written so they will produce more or less same power to the road. No capping of revs, you want to rev 1000000 go ahead, that will start breaking engines again. Get rid of the paddle shift, make it a real gear with clutch and meal gears. The drivers will on occasion muff a shift, possibly only once every 3 seasons, but they will. The gear shift will be in their hands, and their hands only electronics should not take over. Ban carbon brakes, ban all pit to car telemetry and car to pit telemetry, make tire stops optional, give them 'x' square centimeters of wing for the whole car, no wings, flaps, aerofoils between front and rear axel. Flat bottom mean flat bottom, no slants, holes, indentions anything, and raise the unsprung height of the car.

Make it more a drivers championship, and less a tech championship.

Then we will see more teams actually score points, and we will see heartbreak towards end of races for some.

But I am a luddite.

:cool:


#25 g1n

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 13:05

http://marussiamotors.ru//


yeah, it still does not mean it is a Russian flag! blue and white are the wrong way round )

#26 lambylamby

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 13:26

The lack of posts (of which the majority are about the logo) and the late entry of the thread says it all really, there isn't much of interest here. No real team-mate battle either. Their only aim seems not to come behind HRT for the third year running.


A goal is a goal. As much as what you state I don't 'disagree' with, I still find the team interesting, and think they will surprise more now it isn't an unfortunate-not-to-work Wirth-led project. Clean slate for this team, and they have had a long time to develop, and the ties with McLaren give me hope for an improvement.

#27 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 14:39

Marussia should've hired Petrov for the 2nd seat and used Pic as a reserve driver to gain experience. Again, money making moves that the brain should make. :confused:

#28 dau

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 15:24

yeah, it still does not mean it is a Russian flag! blue and white are the wrong way round )

Of course, but it's still their official logo and i'm pretty sure they are aware the russian flag looks different.

#29 olliek88

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 19:49

Marussia should've hired Petrov for the 2nd seat and used Pic as a reserve driver to gain experience. Again, money making moves that the brain should make. :confused:


Pic was hired way before Petrov was a free agent.

Also Pic was at the factory today for his seat fit, it amazes me that it hasn't generated the same sort of interest that Kimi's seat fit has. :p

#30 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 20:07

Pic was hired way before Petrov was a free agent.

Also Pic was at the factory today for his seat fit, it amazes me that it hasn't generated the same sort of interest that Kimi's seat fit has. :p

Maybe that's why Virgin/Marussia will always be a terminal backmarker.

#31 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 20:17

Because they can't predict the future?

#32 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 20:57

Because they can't predict the future?

No. Because they hurried with their decision. They could've had experience + THE MONEY.What was the rush to hire Pic? They know better than us how silly season works! To be honest, i know very little about Charles Pic. Between Wickens, Petrov, Sutil, Rubens, hell even Bruno would be a better choice imo. I'm just a fan who watches F1. Marussia can hire whom ever they want.

#33 Pilla

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 21:40

yeah, it still does not mean it is a Russian flag! blue and white are the wrong way round )


It's Yugoslavian

#34 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 21:55

Marussia can hire whom ever they want.


I think they'll be very pleased to learn that.




#35 MustangSally

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 13:13

Pic was hired way before Petrov was a free agent.


Petrov would have been a natural of course.

There's a big F1 following in Russia. Vitaly is very popular - he was even voted sexiest man of the year by some magazine - and he's very well connected. His sponsor package could be even bigger with Lukoil, but that part clashed with Total at Renault.

Virgin made a 35m loss last year, so a few roubles would come in handy. Virgin will also need a decent budget for a proper engine in 2013, when Cosworth exits.

Pic has serious backers too, so one wonders if Glock is entirely safe.


#36 lambylamby

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 13:38

Petrov would have been a natural of course.

There's a big F1 following in Russia. Vitaly is very popular - he was even voted sexiest man of the year by some magazine - and he's very well connected. His sponsor package could be even bigger with Lukoil, but that part clashed with Total at Renault.

Virgin made a 35m loss last year, so a few roubles would come in handy. Virgin will also need a decent budget for a proper engine in 2013, when Cosworth exits.

Pic has serious backers too, so one wonders if Glock is entirely safe.


Glock is safe. I know it. I feel it in my fingers, I feel it in my toes.

And Yes, Hindsight is a bitch, but the young frenchman could be the 'Pic' of this years rookies.....

#37 Petroltorque

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 17:16

Glock is safe. I know it. I feel it in my fingers, I feel it in my toes.

And Yes, Hindsight is a bitch, but the young frenchman could be the 'Pic' of this years rookies.....

No he won't. Mark my words Pic will be woeful. His times at the young drivers test were woeful. I predict De La rosa, Pic and Verne will all be shown up as not up to standard.

#38 olliek88

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 17:35

No he won't. Mark my words Pic will be woeful. His times at the young drivers test were woeful. I predict De La rosa, Pic and Verne will all be shown up as not up to standard.


Testing times mean squat. We have no idea what sort of program he was running, (high fuel, low fuel, tyre compound, testing new stuff for next year like the periscope exhausts)not to mention it was his first time in an F1 car.

GP2 is probably a better judge at the moment and last year he was quick, inconsistent yes but he had good speed which for a rookie is the most important thing. He'll struggle against Glock for the first half i'm pretty sure of that but i'll be very surprised if he is "woeful".

#39 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 18:07

Testing times mean squat. We have no idea what sort of program he was running, (high fuel, low fuel, tyre compound, testing new stuff for next year like the periscope exhausts)not to mention it was his first time in an F1 car.

GP2 is probably a better judge at the moment and last year he was quick, inconsistent yes but he had good speed which for a rookie is the most important thing. He'll struggle against Glock for the first half i'm pretty sure of that but i'll be very surprised if he is "woeful".


I agree that testing is not proof of anything, but from watching GP2 I'd say that Pic was fast, but erratic. He was more impressive than the veteran (of GP2) Van der Garde though.

I'd be surprised if he was any worse than Di Grassi or D'Ambrosio, who were both solid IMO. I do think he has the potential to be better than those two though, so perhaps this was key in Marussia choosing him over retaining their 2011 lineup...



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#40 Sanman59

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 18:10

Testing times mean squat. We have no idea what sort of program he was running, (high fuel, low fuel, tyre compound, testing new stuff for next year like the periscope exhausts)not to mention it was his first time in an F1 car.

GP2 is probably a better judge at the moment and last year he was quick, inconsistent yes but he had good speed which for a rookie is the most important thing. He'll struggle against Glock for the first half i'm pretty sure of that but i'll be very surprised if he is "woeful".



He will not set the world on fire but he will not be that bad. He was well beaten by Grosjean in GP2 2011 but was only 2 points off second place and only 1 point behind Bianchi.

His main problem is that he will be driving the only car without KERS on the grid.

:well:

Edited by Sanman59, 06 January 2012 - 18:12.


#41 MustangSally

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 18:15

No he won't. Mark my words Pic will be woeful. His times at the young drivers test were woeful. I predict De La rosa, Pic and Verne will all be shown up as not up to standard.


Besides Grosjean, none of the GP2ers this year were in any way consistent. Pic and Van der Garde had the most backing . . . but not even Williams seems interested in Van der Garde, despite him being a protege of sponsor McGregor. Maybe Pic is hired for money plus a Renault engine in 2013?

Vergne is at a real disadvantage against Ricciardo . . . no F1 or Pirelli experience. He may be OK, who knows, but a Friday role this year would have made so much more sense.

De la Rosa isn't being hired for his driving skills . . . and McLaren has valued him for years for his all-round experience which the revamped HRT is largely missing. I think it's the lack of testing that necessitates Pedro actually driving the car in races. Who else could reliably develop the car?

Back on topic, the same applies to Marussia. It needs Glock as a benchmark.


#42 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 18:20

Uhm, Vergne did do some Friday driving. Not much, but he also tested this year and last at Abu Dhabi, so he knows both the cars and the tires.

#43 lambylamby

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 18:20

He will not set the world on fire but he will not be that bad. He was well beaten by Grosjean in GP2 2011 but was only 2 points off second place and only 1 point behind Bianchi.

His main problem is that he will be driving the only car without KERS on the grid.

:well:


I'm wondering about this. I think IF they are in a situation to be overtaking anyone other than HRT, how much would kers put pressure on helping overtake/defend a situation. I would have thought even though Nick wirth and the doomed MVR-02 project he summed up something quite well. it was along the lines of 'we aren't looking for 3 tenths, we are looking for 3 seonds'. If they feel that's the direction to go, I think they must know what they are looking for without too much kers distraction...

#44 MustangSally

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 18:33

His main problem is that he will be driving the only car without KERS on the grid.


Is that confirmed?

They could have bought a Williams KERS to go with the Cosworth, surely. If HRT can afford this kit, surely Marussia can?


#45 dau

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 18:39

Is that confirmed?

They could have bought a Williams KERS to go with the Cosworth, surely. If HRT can afford this kit, surely Marussia can?

I think Booth was quoted as saying KERS would be a waste of money for them.

#46 cbbcisace

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 19:58

I think Booth was quoted as saying KERS would be a waste of money for them.


Yes Marussia will have no KERS next year.

Something when you think logically, HRT as supposed to have "no money" and yet can afford KERS for next year!

Edited by cbbcisace, 07 January 2012 - 19:59.


#47 Clatter

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 19:27

Yes Marussia will have no KERS next year.

Something when you think logically, HRT as supposed to have "no money" and yet can afford KERS for next year!


Don't confuse "waste of money" with having "no money". KERS will bring at best a few tenths of a second, if they get the chassis right they could find 5-6 seconds. The money, time and effort is simply better spent on the car.

#48 MustangSally

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 19:47

Don't confuse "waste of money" with having "no money". KERS will bring at best a few tenths of a second, if they get the chassis right they could find 5-6 seconds. The money, time and effort is simply better spent on the car.


It's not the only measurement, however. As shown in 09, KERS cars were making up 3 - 5 grid places at the start against non-KERS. And KERS plus DRS can make the difference between overtaking or being stuck behind a slower car.

The other flaw in this argument is that Marussia is racing Lotus and HRT, cars which are not, and not likely to be, seconds ahead. So tenths matter.


#49 Clatter

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 19:51

It's not the only measurement, however. As shown in 09, KERS cars were making up 3 - 5 grid places at the start against non-KERS. And KERS plus DRS can make the difference between overtaking or being stuck behind a slower car.

The other flaw in this argument is that Marussia is racing Lotus and HRT, cars which are not, and not likely to be, seconds ahead. So tenths matter.


Seconds matter more.


#50 Petroltorque

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:16

Seconds matter more.

How do you achieve seconds? On an incremental basis. You don't magic a 3 second gain out of the ether. There are certain factors involved in running KERS;
Do you want to carry the extra 20kg of mandated weight as ballast or an 80 bhp power boost. One saw the largest effect of KERS during qualifying where it was combined with DRS effectively squeezing the pole time.
The argument that Marussia need seconds as opposed to the tenths KERS provides was used by Nick Wirth, a failed design engineer.