13 replies to this topic

[doomofdesire]

Ok, i was searhing on a forum talking to a good friend of mine, and he dug out some old footage with turned out to be never before seen

The full post here

This is very close to reporting a barn find, hope you guys like it

This Christmas one of my cousins decided to offer to many family members a DVD containing very old footage, from the 1960's, mostly containing family scenes in special occasions (marriages, birthdays, baptisms, family gatherings, trips to interesting places, etc.). The quality is very poor and since all of it was taken from old reels in 8mm, many segments of film became sadly lost or damaged beyond repair. Oh and there's no sound also.


Anyway, within that DVD filled with scenes from long-departed and missed family members, and also with many of the ones still living, but 40 years younger, I found, with great amazement, a scene of ... OVAL RACING ... with rally cars of old ... in a location that lloked to me like a football stadium.

A bit of research got me the truth about that footage. The cars you see are the participants of the 1969 International TAP Rally (later to become the WRC portuguese rally). The first two cars are Citroen DS 21 Proto(types). You'll also see Tony Fall in his Lancia Fulvia HF. And lots of other great cars.

Apparently, after the cars arrived to Portugal (coming from starting points located in their driver's own countries, like it was done in that era of rallying), the first "stage" was a oval showdown between two cars (much like it happens nowadays, but with both cars racing each other) . Not sure how it was done, or what rules applied but it sure looked like a lot of fun.

Another curious fact. I looked, and looked, and looked ... and found NOWHERE any other footage from the 1969 edition of the "Rally de Portugal". Of course, in private collections, and maybe at Citroen, you must have something. But there's nothing publicly viewable that I know of.

So, here you have it, fresh from Youtube publication last night ... 1969's Portuguese Rally footage.

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

NOW, i warn u that this was my friends video, not MINE

Edited by doomofdesire, 06 January 2012 - 00:46.

[RS2000]

Interesting. It was not two cars actually racing each other (as it is, albeit on separate tracks, with the ludicrous WRC "Superspecials" inflicted on us in more recent years) but a further car lined up at the start by the time the previous car had been released. The Swedish ran a similar stage on a snow-covered (horse) trotting ring.
London starters were numbers 164 to 175 (that information passed to me a few years ago courtesy of JRally on here). 167 is the Bob East 911 and I think it's Adrian Boyd's Escort lined up as next car.
The early TAPs, despite the long road mileages of Monte-style multiple starts, were relatively cheap to do, as they had some reasonable deals on offer to UK competitiors.
Not sure if that was the year Tony Fall won but was then excluded for carrying his wife in the car for the last few yards of the event.

[doomofdesire]

i think it was the year because my friend had a call up by a PR of the organiser of the Portuguese rally saying thanks

anyway

Thanks! Is anyone able to identify car #25? It shows up at about 0:25 into the video, paired against what I think is a Triumph TR6 (#22), and I can't figure out what car that one is (Maker/Model). Lotus?

UPDATE!!

After consutlation with the rest of the obscure old car fans here at work....

It's a Matra 530.

[doomofdesire]

With the car maker/model sorted out, a quick research (Matra; Rally; TAP; Portugal; 1969) got me to the other info I was looking for, and a close-up pic of the car. In the link below

http://www.forum-aut...4.htm#t15060675

Here (some amazing pics of Matras in rallying to be found there, share with your old car fans buddies! ^^^^

[doomofdesire]

I'd like to ask the help of Autosport here to identify the Ford Taunus seen at around 1:25 and again at 1:30. It seems the driver was a belgian called Gilbert Staeplaere (not confirmed) and I already found a lot about this old belgian rally legend on the internet, but no word or picture of him using a Taunus, only Cortinas and Escorts. And can't find, ANYWHERE, a picture of a Taunus Rally car, no matter the driver.

Any belgians out there willing to help?

ps, i got a reply on another forum from a friend but i am not sure if he is right. Becuase he does not watch rally that often but his Dad is into it.

REPLY
Great footage!

Not a Belgian, but did some searching for you and I can confirm his career here
Gilbert Staepelaere took part in that rally. His co-driver was N. Sol and the car is officially called Ford Taunus 20M RS. They didn't finish the rally.

A large amount of great pics from his personal collection can be found here

Worth watching!! Just click on 'klik hier' and you'll be directed to the album. Couldn't find a picture of the 1969 rally, but the Taunus is there..

[RS2000]

...this old belgian rally legend...

Not so much of the "old"! Gilbert was still driving the first time I rallied in Belgium. Later he managed the Ford (part time) supported "Belga Team" entries of Robert Droogmans in Tony Maslen and Jeff Churchill works-spec "hire car" Escorts.

The Belgian Championship then allowed a couple of non-Belgian rallies to be counted for points and Portugal seemed a popular choice.

The Taunus was resonably successful, including on the Safari.

Gilbert was involved in playing down ("covering up" are not words I would imply) the Droog's serious practice shunt (on open public roads, with his girlfriend riding in the back of the practice RS2) the night before the 1983 Tour of Flanders. I was in the same cafe shortly before and can confirm he was only drinking coffee...

[doomofdesire]

Wow rs2000! You were actully there and rallied in the 70's and 80's So do you ever remember speaking g to him? (Gilbert)

So is it true that all the competitors came from a series of starting points located in their home country and raced to the location of the rally?

[Hun200kmh]

Hi RS2000, I am the owner/publisher on YT of that video, indeed you are right about the starting numbers of the drivers departing from London in the '69 TAP, I have been given their details and they were these:

164 A. J. l. Boyd GB R. McBurney GB Ford Escort TC
165 Antonhy Fowkes GB D. Jones GB Ford Cortina Lotus
166 H. D. Boos GB D. A. Boos GB MG B
167 Robert East GB M. Gilles GB Porsche 911 S
168 C. Callow GB A. McDougall GB Hillman Imp
169 John Bloxham GB R. Harper GB Ford Escort TC
170 David Huges GB M. Waller GB Ford Cortina Lotus
171 Michael Hofman GB S. Davey GB Ford Escort TC
172 Andreas Michalidis GB Greenwood GB Sunbeam Imp
173 ????????
174 Elisabeth Barlow GB P. Clowes GB Morris 850
175 R. Maunsell GB N. Hencerson GB Sunbeam Imp


#173 is missing, I have asked ACP (organizer club) to provide a full entry list and I've been promised one, maybe I'll get to complete the list.


About what exactly happened in that "oval" I'm not sure, you have bits of video when you see two cars running close to each other. I read somewhere that all cars were supposed to do 5 laps (and this should mean one at a time) but the images are there and even if it is evident that the cars aren't released together, anything else about how that was run I simply don't know.

About Tony Fall, indeed this is the year when he was disqualified on arrival because his wife (girlfriend?) was in the car. Now, make of this what you will, but the "unofficial" truth only spoken, but never written, here in Portugal and especially within the ACP is that this formal cause for his disqualification was in fact a way to hide a more serious breach made by this competitor or by his team (works Lancia) the day or night before. In short, it was a honorable way out. "Fall was a experienced works driver, winner of the previous edition of the TAP (1968), he knew better, and it would be a very stupid act from him (to take a passenger to the last checkpoint in front of everybody), with serious consequences for his drive with Lancia if this wasn't all staged"

I do not know, the guys involved are dead and whatever happened won't be changed. But I just thought I should share this info I got.

Cheers, I'm glad these images, from a litle reel stored away 40+ years in an old case, were not entirely lost forever as it was so possible to happen (every time, in the last 40 years, my mother had one of those "rages" about all the trash accumulated in the attic that should be disposed of) LOL

[wenoopy]

By coincidence, my wife and I were travelling through Spain and Portugal in September and October 1970 at the time of the 1970 TAP rally. As recently-married New Zealanders we were touring Europe in a van/motor home, as many other young Australasians, North Americans and others did in those years .

We were aware of the Rally, having waited at the border entry post with some UK support crew folk (Spain & Portugal were not in European Community in in those days, so a long customs rigmarole could occur), and a few days later found ourselves sharing the road from Guarda to the Spanish border with the rally "convoy" on presumably a road section of the route which then passed into Spain. All the locals were out to greet the rally cars (and us) so we did our bit by waving back as we were passed by Porsches, Lancias, Alfas etc.

Somewhere before the border, we stopped and picked up a middle-aged US hitch-hiker, who was quite bewildered by the rally. "These people must be in a race or something" he said, "I tried to wave them down but nobody would stop!" (Surprise!) He seemed to be a "remittance man", a writer living in Madrid, who had to leave Spain every 6 months to renew his tourist visa in Portugal, and crossing the border in a vehicle was less suspicious than crossing on foot. I tried to explain car rallying to him, but don't think it got through. I think we dropped him off in Salamanca.

Travelling around for a few months, we were in a news vacuum and while we might find out who won Formula One races eventually, rally news was off the agenda completely.

Stu

[doomofdesire]

some stuff here

i found this site, now for the 1969 tap ones, just do ctrl-f on your keyboard and search up tap or Portuguese and it will come up with some plates


and hun200

"About what exactly happened in that "oval" I'm not sure, you have bits of video when you see two cars running close to each other. I read somewhere that all cars were supposed to do 5 laps (and this should mean one at a time) but the images are there and even if it is evident that the cars aren't released together, anything else about how that was run I simply don't know."


I think i may know why this is, because all the rally cars launched at different times. It may of been a handicap thing.

What i mean is that since the leader launched first, if the 2nd guy was 5 seconds behind, he would go after 5 seconds and the 3rd guy would go after that.

Because you remember that there was 1 stage before the oval race

[doomofdesire]

http://autosport.aei...s.stories/35572

i found a good site with a summary of the rally, thing is i had to translate it from Portuguese so some of it is a bit mucked up

And it even says that there was 1 stage before the oval stadium

Also hun200, can you please read the reason why tony fall was excluded in his Lancia at the end in Portguese because it says that there was a cover up. But some of it makes no sense, so can u post what they are actully trying to say on the forums here to all of us???

[Hun200kmh]

Well, I think the google translation gives you a good idea of what's posted in that site.

Original text:
E foi já no Estoril, que se deu o caso da prova. Tony Fall compareceu no ultimo controlo com a sua namorada a bordo e César Torres, aplicando o regulamento, decidiu desclassificar o piloto Britânico, acabando a vitória por cair nas mãos de Francisco Romãozinho, seguido por José Lampreia e Chavan.

Esta foi a razão oficial e legítima que levou à exclusão de Tony Fall. No entanto, sempre se comentou que o piloto da Lancia teria cometido outra irregularidade ainda na descida da Lousã, onde o seu Fulvia teria sido objecto de uma "suspeita reparação". Esta teoria segue depois dois rumos diversos:

Um diz que César Torres terá tomado conhecimento desta manobra e terá usado a presença da namorada de Fall a bordo do Fulvia como argumento para a desclassificação do piloto, poupando-o assim da humilhação maior de ter feito "batota" para prosseguir em prova.

A outra versão aponta para uma acção propositada de Tony Fall, que ao saber que a organização tomara conhecimento da "manobra" da sua equipa na Lousã, terá optado por controlar no Estoril com 3 pessoas a bordo para que o motivo da sua desclassificação fosse este e não a humilhante "batota" que terá ocorrido no centro do país.

Independentemente do motivo, o facto a salientar é que a desclassificação ocorreu mesmo e tal facto contribuiu para que o rigor e profissionalismo de César Torres tivesse eco além fronteiras.

Google translation (poorly) corrected by me:
And it was already in Estoril that we had the event's scandal. Tony Fall showed up in the last control with his girlfriend on board and Cesar Torres (NdT: "Race Director") , applying the regulation, decided to disqualify the British driver, handing the victory to Francisco Romaozinho, followed by Jose Lampreia and Chavan.

This was the official and legitimate reason that led to the exclusion of Tony Fall. However, it was always said that the driver of the Lancia had committed other irregularities at the Lousã stage, where his Fulvia had a "suspicious repair" made to it. This rumor then goes two separate ways:

One says Cesar Torres, after being aware of these facts, used the presence of Fall's girlfriend aboard the Fulvia as an argument for the disqualifying the driver, thus sparing him the humiliation of a "cheating" charge.

The other version points to a deliberate action of Tony Fall that, knowing that the organization had learned of what his team had made in Lousã, opted for showing up at Estoril with three people on board the car, therefore making sure his disqualification would be for this reason and not for any wrongdoing that had occurred at the center of the country.

Whatever the reason, the fact is that the disqualification was decided and this decision contributed to make the rigor and professionalism of Cesar Torres echo across borders

[doomofdesire]

thanks, and in the post before, do you think it would of been a handicap thing on the oval stage???

[RS2000]

thanks, and in the post before, do you think it would of been a handicap thing on the oval stage???

No. As posted earlier, this kind of stage ran elsewhere too, in the same manner as rally stages consisting of laps of race circuits. In Belgium "lapping" stages on industrial estates were (and still are) used. It was normal to start each car from a slip road but lining up on the track itself (as with this stadium stage) did happen elsewhere. A race circuit stage on the Rally of the 1000 Lakes comes to mind (Hameenlinna?) with several cars lined up but each starting individually and individual times being on scratch. A car would not normally be released when another was closely approaching on its second or subsequent lap but you do end up with cars passing each other or running together. Any delay caused by catching another car is "force majeure" just as it is on a conventional stage.