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The forthcoming Lauda-Hunt movie 'Rush'


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#1851 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:23

I finally got to see the film yesterday.  In a cinema with 190 seats there were precisely FOUR of us....

 

I went with my Dutch neighbour who knew almost nothing about motor racing in general and only what he knew about 1976 from the internet reviews of the film.

 

He enjoyed it and I must admit that I did too. However, in order to do that I really did have to leave my anorak at home. Several things grated but I simply refused to allow that to spoil a jolly good couple of hours. 

 

I could list many points of contention but these have been mentioned so often that I have no intention of doing so.



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#1852 Slurp1955

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:58

Does anyone know how Hunts Mclaren managed to get on the back of the grid at Monza?

 

"Italian scrutineering" , an oxymoron if ever there was one. You could write a fifty page treatise on shenanigans at Monza over the years, but I guess that is the essence of F1. The teams in 1976 were using five star petrol that was available at the pumps in Britain, France, Germany and Italy. In Britain this was an octane rating of 101.2. Tested at Monza on the Saturday (third timed practice), the McLarens fuel was 101.6 and John Watson's Penkse 105.7, so their times for that session were disallowed. As there were 29 drivers qualifying for 26 places, and Fridays practice had been wet, this put Hunt, Mass and Watson out of the race. Guy Edwards withdrew, Arturo Merzario was  withdrawn and the legendary Otto Stuppacher had gone home, letting Hunt, Mass and Watson back in. Sat in the stands, we knew nothing of this until the following week's papers :) JohnP



#1853 ensign14

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:44

The teams were allowed their local octane rating +1, so McLaren were well within the tolerance limit.  I maintain that Hunt was finagled onto the grid as if he had been excluded entirely then the Italian GP was at risk of being slung out of the championship on appeal.  The easy pretext, even without the withdrawals, would have been to bar Stuppacher from starting, as he was outside the 110% limit - and probably dangerously slow.



#1854 kayemod

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:26

Be afraid, be very afraid, cos you ain't seen nothin' yet. If this thread can make 1856 posts over 38 pages, any bets on what this one could make, assuming it ever happens of course.

http://www.dailymail...oll-Shelby.html

Anyone know how tall Carroll Shelby was? This reminds me of a story about another similarly height-challenged Hollywood star, western specialist Alan Ladd. Legend has it that where possible he was filmed standing on an out of shot small crate, either that or people such as tall leading ladies he was in close-ups with had to stand in a specially dug trench.

#1855 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:30

If Tom Cruise can play the part of Jack Reacher (who, in the books, is about 6 feet 6 inches tall) I'm sure he can play Carroll Shelby.

 

At least they aren't making Carroll into Carol.....   :eek:



#1856 LotusElise

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 15:40

The fact that it's a Tom Cruise film puts me off immediately. He hasn't made a good film in years and he scares me a bit.

The height thing is the least of my worries.

 

Incidentally, was Carroll Shelby a big guy, then? Most racing drivers are Tom Cruise-sized, to be fair.



#1857 kayemod

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 16:31

Incidentally, was Carroll Shelby a big guy, then? Most racing drivers are Tom Cruise-sized, to be fair.


Tom Cruise is an excellent actor, just as long as he only has to play Tom Cruise, but there's no-one better at that.

On Carroll Shelby, in his prime he was at least 6' tall, an estimate based on a group photo I saw would make him about 6'2", which is roughly my height, and that poses a question, how did he manage to drive his own cars? Cobras might be some way away from the AC Ace they were based on, but it seemed to me that habitability didn't improve much at all. I once worked with a guy who owned an Aceca, which I found chronically short of leg-room. Another friend had an original 289 Cobra, and part from the performance, nothing seems to have changed much, no way I'd want to drive any of those cars for any distance, I just wouldn't be safe.

Apologies for moving away from Rush, but I don't think there's much more to be said on that anyway.

#1858 Thundersport

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 17:30

It was with some persuasion that Edwards withdrew.



#1859 Tim Murray

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 18:29

Yes and no. According to Pete Lyons in his Autosport report, Frank Williams had become so fed up with Merzario's constant complaining about the tyres that he had officially withdrawn the car after practice. This let Mass into the race. Then Hunt got in because Stuppacher had gone home. Finally, Guy Edwards was suffering with a wrist damaged at the Nürburgring, which had caused him to miss Austria and Holland. He didn't think it would last the race distance, so was happy to come to an agreement with Roger Penske whereby he withdrew from the race and Penske paid his travel expenses to the North American races. If Stuppacher had stayed, he had been given a concession which would have allowed him to race although outside the 110% limit.



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#1860 LotusElise

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 20:23

On Carroll Shelby, in his prime he was at least 6' tall, an estimate based on a group photo I saw would make him about 6'2", which is roughly my height, and that poses a question, how did he manage to drive his own cars? Cobras might be some way away from the AC Ace they were based on, but it seemed to me that habitability didn't improve much at all. I once worked with a guy who owned an Aceca, which I found chronically short of leg-room. Another friend had an original 289 Cobra, and part from the performance, nothing seems to have changed much, no way I'd want to drive any of those cars for any distance, I just wouldn't be safe.

Apologies for moving away from Rush, but I don't think there's much more to be said on that anyway.

 

 

 

Going off-topic completely now, but the size thing is interesting. I have been told by tall male friends that most road cars are uncomfortable if you are over about 6'3", let alone racing models.

I've sat in lots of racing cars and, at 5'2", often struggle to reach the pedals properly and see over the dash. The height "window" for comfortably driving one seems to be the 5'6"-5'10" range. I do wonder how someone like Patrick Depailler, who apparently was a similar height and weight to me, managed.

 


Edited by LotusElise, 25 October 2013 - 22:55.


#1861 Thundersport

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 20:53

I understand some serious money changed hands.  ;)



#1862 Glengavel

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 17:12

Be afraid, be very afraid, cos you ain't seen nothin' yet. If this thread can make 1856 posts over 38 pages, any bets on what this one could make, assuming it ever happens of course.

http://www.dailymail...oll-Shelby.html

Anyone know how tall Carroll Shelby was? This reminds me of a story about another similarly height-challenged Hollywood star, western specialist Alan Ladd. Legend has it that where possible he was filmed standing on an out of shot small crate, either that or people such as tall leading ladies he was in close-ups with had to stand in a specially dug trench.

 

Humphrey Bogart got some artificial assistance for his scenes with Ingrid Bergman in 'Casablanca' - shoes with wooden blocks on the soles.

 

Re the Cruise picture - hopefully more factually accurate than the BBC documentary from a few years back!



#1863 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 16:00

So come on, people.  Loads of us have now seen Rush but nobody has come out and said which they prefer, 'Grand Prix' or 'Rush'.



#1864 john winfield

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 16:11

So come on, people.  Loads of us have now seen Rush but nobody has come out and said which they prefer, 'Grand Prix' or 'Rush'.

'Grand Prix' for me Barry.  I prefer its fictional approach, set within a recognisable Grand Prix world, rather than 'Rush' taking real events and, to an extent, fictionalising them for mass entertainment.

But then I'm a miserable old curmudgeon. 



#1865 ensign14

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 16:16

I think I prefer Rush to Grand Prix, but Le Mans to them both.



#1866 Calhoun

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 16:52

I have followed this link from the beginning, cringed at the clichés and (IMO) bad CGI in the trailers, and attended opening night (with arms crossed) expecting to hate it, but...

 

     It is hands down the best racing movie ever (full stop).

 

Who would have guessed that Opie would have such a handle on the Grand Prix circus.



#1867 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 16:56

Rush 2 - Grand Prix 1,   so far.



#1868 E.B.

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 17:03

I prefer Grand Prix marginally, but bearing in mind that my all time favourite racing movie stars Mickey Rooney, I'm not sure my opinion is valid.



#1869 pressman

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:52

Grand Prix   by a mile  !



#1870 275 GTB-4

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 23:38

I prefer Grand Prix marginally, but bearing in mind that my all time favourite racing movie stars Mickey Rooney, I'm not sure my opinion is valid.

 

Hee heee has anyone ever analysed the back-projections where Mickey is sawing away at the wheel? Suppose they came from a CA speedway.... :)



#1871 E.B.

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:26

Hee heee has anyone ever analysed the back-projections where Mickey is sawing away at the wheel? Suppose they came from a CA speedway.... :)

 

No, but I did identify the car that broke Jimmy Stewart's leg before Rear Window.



#1872 blackmme

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:13

Rush 2 - Grand Prix 1,   so far.

Rush for me by quite a long way (and I really love Grand Prix).

 

But in the 'Specialist' category for Motor Racing films.  It is Francoise Hardy 1 Olivia Wilde 0  :blush:

 

Regards Mike



#1873 ddmichael

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:58

Grand Prix, absolutely no question - how there's any contest between 70mm onboard shots of Bandini hammering around Monza, and a lot of CGI enhanced footage of cars with Mondeo engines on an empty airstrip, I honestly don't know.

 

Think I'd put Rush more on a par with Fireball 500 :smoking:


Edited by ddmichael, 30 October 2013 - 14:16.


#1874 blackmme

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 14:17

Grand Prix, absolutely no question - how there's any contest between 70mm onboard shots of Bandini hammering around Monza, and a lot of CGI enhanced footage of cars with Mondeo engines on an empty airstrip I honestly don't know.

 

A lot of the cars in Rush were the real thing and in the case of a certain M23 at the ring driven by the real thing as well.

 

I'm judging it as a movie and not just as a motor racing footage archive though.....

 

Regards Mike


Edited by blackmme, 30 October 2013 - 14:19.


#1875 garyfrogeye

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 14:43

Different things in my opinion. It's like comparing Star Wars with Close encounters. One is a true story and the other is fictional.............. :eek: eeer, I'll get my coat

Both equally good in my opinion.



#1876 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 15:47

Ah, I see - Close Encounters is a true story while Star Wars is obviously fictional....  Yeah, right!   :lol:

 

But, I take your point.



#1877 Snakedriver

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 15:52

I agree with Gary.  The 2 films are really apples and oranges.  However for pure entertainment value, I would take the middle line.   

 

I really like the splits screens and score of Grand Prix (That groovy 60s thing).  The romantic subplots are kinda melodramatic.  On the other hand, Rush isn't everything Grand Prix is.  I can do with out all the flash-bang of Rush.

 

Both films are entertaining.

 

I hope on the re release of Rush, the put spark plugs in the CGI cylinder head!  That was very painful to watch.

 

Leo



#1878 ddmichael

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 16:46

It's worth mentioning though, that many of the subplots in Grand Prix are based upon real incidents, it just doesn't purport to tell a true story, which Rush does, yet fictionalises practically every element to a varying degree. I'm not just judging Grand Prix as a collection of stock footage, but as a film that captures the atmosphere of the circus in a way no other has, and as such is surely more of an enthusiast's film. 

 

One scene both film features is a pre-race drivers' meeting, and whilst Grand Prix presents a group of men aware of the risks involved, but understanding their commitments, Rush presents a bunch of louts jeering at Lauda - I guess that sums it up for me, there's just no subtlety in Rush - it's all about impact and getting through the stories within an acceptable running time, truth be damned.

 

Guess I'm an old curmudgeon too, so forgive my grumbling!

 

Dylan


Edited by ddmichael, 01 November 2013 - 11:42.


#1879 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 17:02

Nothing to forgive.   :wave:



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#1880 E.B.

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 17:24

Once scene both film features is a pre-race drivers' meeting, and whilst Grand Prix presents a group of men aware of the risks involved

 

Graham Hill didn't seem too aware of the risk posed by Rindt, and it wasn't exactly subtle either.



#1881 Coral

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 18:22

Graham Hill didn't seem too aware of the risk posed by Rindt, and it wasn't exactly subtle either.

That scene...where Rindt grabs Graham Hill's leg, is my favourite scene in the whole film. In fact I just love the entire drivers' meeting scene...it's sad, though, to see five drivers who would later in crashes. That really brings it home to you just how dangerous the sport was back then...

 

"Grand Prix" is one of my favourite films of all time, I can't get enough of it and I even have it on my iPod. I loved "Rush" every bit as much though, and I can't wait until it comes out so I can buy it. The more half-decent films about motorsport there are, the better! :D



#1882 275 GTB-4

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 21:56

But in the 'Specialist' category for Motor Racing films.  It is Francoise Hardy 1 Olivia Wilde 0  :blush:

 

Regards Mike

 

No need to blush...I agree with you as would legions of others :wave:



#1883 JacnGille

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 00:28

No need to blush...I agree with you as would legions of others :wave:

:up:



#1884 Michael Ferner

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 17:50

No, but I did identify the car that broke Jimmy Stewart's leg before Rear Window.


You did? Very interesting! I never managed to summon up the energy to go through pictures for comparison, but my first impulse on seeing it was: the 1948 Conny Weidell-Bob Estes/Mercury - am I right? :cat:

#1885 philippe7

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:33

So come on, people.  Loads of us have now seen Rush but nobody has come out and said which they prefer, 'Grand Prix' or 'Rush'.

 

Just came out of seeing Rush which made it to the one and only New-Caledonia movies multiplex sooner than I would have hoped 

 

Two words : terribly disappointing. I had stopped reading this thread about when the first screenings were starting in Europe and based upon some early comments I was expecting something much better. It just never clicked right - except maybe the last 15 minutes which ( anorak off ) actually caught me almost believing what I was seeing.

 

I actually found it quite surprising that they globally  made quite remarkable efforts to have the cars liveries and race events so close to reality - while at the same time taking such licence about everything going on around the race tracks  .

 

For me "Grand Prix" is better by miles.....but the simple explanation is probably that in 1976 I was 20 years old and following very closely the sport in "real time" - which means that "Rush" never really clicks because there are so many grotesque overplayed clichés and over-dramatic effects . Whereas the 60's are only something I read about afterwards and the mystics of seeing the footage of the old Spa or of the Monza banking really did it for me ....

 

Not sure what follows will be understood as it is meant ( bearing in mind I'm not a native english speaker ) but watching Rush I started to think how an air force pilot would feel like while watching TopGun - or a Vietnam vet watching Apocalypse Now . This kind of thing.  

 

And after all  "Le Mans" which I recently re-watched on DVD probably remains at the top of my list - in spite ( or probably because of...) the very thin plot .

 

Just my two XPF's worth   :wave:   ( NB : XPF = french pacific francs )



#1886 john winfield

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 13:12

I actually found it quite surprising that they globally  made quite remarkable efforts to have the cars liveries and race events so close to reality - while at the same time taking such licence about everything going on around the race tracks  .

 

For me "Grand Prix" is better by miles.....but the simple explanation is probably that in 1976 I was 20 years old and following very closely the sport in "real time" - which means that "Rush" never really clicks because there are so many grotesque overplayed clichés and over-dramatic effects .

 

 

Fully agree Philippe, I felt the same.

By the way, good to know there are still Francs out your way, anciens I hope.  And if English isn't your first language, how come you write it better than most of us?  :wave:



#1887 E.B.

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 14:28

You did? Very interesting! I never managed to summon up the energy to go through pictures for comparison, but my first impulse on seeing it was: the 1948 Conny Weidell-Bob Estes/Mercury - am I right? :cat:

 

Depends - I assumed he ducked to avoid the car on the right of the shot and got walloped by the cartwheeling car in the middle - which looks like JC Agajanian's Kuzma driven by Chuck Stevenson. The car is numbered 87 (not the 97 that Stevenson actually wore in the '53 500) but the number change looks like a crude 1950s equivalent of photoshopping.

 

You've got me thinking though - why wasn't Stevenson wearing number 1? Something to do with the abortive Ferrari entry for Ascari?



#1888 Michael Ferner

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 16:21

Damned, now you've got ME thinking... Need to watch it again!

About Stevenson and #1, YES, you're right! Stevenson was originally allocated #1, and Ascari #97, but Chuck humbly defered the honour of wearing #1 to the reigning World Champion.

#1889 king_crud

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 16:35

I didn't read anything about Rush before seeing it, all I heard was people I knew (non motor racing types) saying they enjoyed it. I went into it with my motor racing cap on rather than my movie watching cap on and came away disapointed. I don't like movies much anyway, especially action movies, and I felt this was not much more than an action movie set in 1976. I did enjoy the guy playing Niki Lauda though.

 

As I said to my mum (who was the one to convince me to go) if they'd stayed true to the real story it still would have been just as exciting.



#1890 philippe7

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 20:54

 

By the way, good to know there are still Francs out your way, anciens I hope.


They are pretty ancient, yes.... the ticket to watch Rush costed me the amazing sum of 1040 of them ....although it's only about 10 US $ , you feel rich when slapping a 1000 francs banknote on the desk

Sorry for diverting

#1891 MichaelJP

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:23

I thought Rush was very enjoyable, Ron Howard did a great job. Also the effects team at Double Negative who did loads of research and enhanced all the shots did an amazing job.

 

I also love Grand Prix, but let's face it, that movie has loads of flaws too, especially with most of the cars being F2. I can also never forgive Frankenheimer for the extended montage he and his editor created for the Clermont-Ferrand race, what a complete waste of what must have been some amazing footage of a beautiful and little seen racetrack.



#1892 speedman13

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 13:56

Grand Prix by  a mile, Le Mans, Rush.



#1893 GD66

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:35

I forked out 18 grand for Rush !

 

 

 Well, bought the dvd in a seaside bar from a street vendor in Lombok for 18,000 rupiyah on Tuesday. About $1.75...

 

They don't waste much time !



#1894 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 16:15

Won't compare this movie with others, simply different period of time (of film industry) as well as approach. It is certainly a well done from my side. Several things in the scenario have been altered for the purpose of the movie and some racing scenes may have been not exact: it still is a very good portrayal of the world of racing back then. Emotional was the last part with Niki overlooking it all again. Its a pity Hunt could not join him. And now alas its fading out of the cinemas around us. Will be interesting to see the first DVD boxes with extra materials included. Father X-Mas?


Edited by Arjan de Roos, 20 November 2013 - 16:16.


#1895 Slurp1955

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 16:40

Released 27th January apparently, my Birthday if you fancy buying a complete stranger a prezzie :kiss:



#1896 West3

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 00:19

Brilliant interview by Charlie Rose of both Ron Howard and Niki Lauda. The first half consists of Howard discussing the movie, with Lauda giving his insights on the movie, his life and career begining about thirty minutes in. A worthwhile hour I think.

 

http://www.charliero.../watch/60307605



#1897 f1steveuk

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 15:14

Do you know, after years of seeing motor racing films, I have finally worked out why my belief in them suffers.They all seem to have that same shot, the driver desperate to get past suddenly, and without thought of his safety, floors the throttle. Like the pedal isn't either at tick over or pinned to the floor. If all you had to do was press the pedal a bit more, then I should have been World champion at least four times, especially if all the others were holding back  ;)



#1898 E.B.

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 15:38

In the case of Grand Prix, I think it can be partly forgiven though. As far as I can recall, most of those scenes were from the final race at Monza, shortly after Pete Aron explained about slipstreaming, and how a driver could back off the throttle when following another car but then floor it and pull out to overtake.



#1899 mfd

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 15:58

It doesn't excuse all the others though...situation normal, same old crap.

 

Incidentally if you listen to the interview with Lauda, he gets asked the same old, same old...

Interviewer question. "Do you regret anything from back then?"

NL answers "no not at all apart from losing my ear"



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#1900 Snakedriver

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 18:12

But to answer the question I would rather watch Grand Prix than Rush.

 

Leo