12 replies to this topic

[Flat Black 84]

Armenians have always comprised a very tiny minority in the United States, but in the immediate post-war era, at least four giants of open-wheel racing (and high-performance manufacture) were of Armenian descent. They were J. C. Agajanian, Fred Agabashian, Ed Elisian and Ed Iskenderian. Since that period, I'm unaware of other Armenians who've risen to the highest levels of racing and racing parts production.

This Armenian racing boomlet strikes me as rather unusual. Any insights into why it occurred and disappeared as it did?

PS--I do suspect there was an influx of Armenian immigration to the US stemming from the Turkish persecutions of 1915-23. That does not, however, explain why Armenians got into racing, though.

[Paul Rochdale]

Alain Prosts' mother Marie-Rose Karatchian was/is of Armenian descent.

[David McKinney]

As D-Type posted on an earlier occasion:

Using the "Search BB" button turned up six threads including one titled Racing Armenians

[Jim Thurman]

Armenians have always comprised a very tiny minority in the United States, but in the immediate post-war era, at least four giants of open-wheel racing (and high-performance manufacture) were of Armenian descent. They were J. C. Agajanian, Fred Agabashian, Ed Elisian and Ed Iskenderian. Since that period, I'm unaware of other Armenians who've risen to the highest levels of racing and racing parts production.

This Armenian racing boomlet strikes me as rather unusual. Any insights into why it occurred and disappeared as it did?

PS--I do suspect there was an influx of Armenian immigration to the US stemming from the Turkish persecutions of 1915-23. That does not, however, explain why Armenians got into racing, though.

There was a large immigration, particularly to Fresno and Glendale in California, and California being such a center of racing, apparently racing appealed to many young Armenians. Like countless other young Americans likely they either got involved in the local hot rod scene as teens or attended midget, track roadster or big car racing in the area and got interested. Elisian reportedly was a hot rodder and both he and Agabashian started out in track roadsters/hot rods. And, I believe both families were originally in the Fresno area. Who knows?, perhaps a young Ed Eliseian watched Fred Agabashian race at Oakland Speedway and that inspired him.

Post WWII in the Fresno area, the local hardtop and jalopy racing featured many drivers of Armenian heritage, many with Americanized first or nicknames. I've seen a point standing list for Selma Speedway in Selma, California where 7 of the top 10 were Armenian names. Some of those same drivers became car owners when NASCAR super modifieds ruled the Kearney Bowl. They also became track officials and track operators in the Fresno area.

I don't think it was that much of a boomlet, or bust for that matter (except perhaps in the Fresno area). I think its more down to the fact that a lot more people were involved in racing in the immediate pre and post WWII booms, that there was a "boom" in racing. In California, additionally, there were racers of Mexican, Portugese, Italian, Syrian, Lebanese and Japanese descent and at least a few black (African-American) drivers. A perusal of the entry lists at the speed runs on the dry lakes shows a variety of surnames.

[Michael Ferner]

Wasn't Vukovich also of Armenian descent?

[Tim Murray]

According to this thread he was of Serbian descent. The family came from an area that is now in Montenegro:

Vukovich family origin and name

Also mentioned in this thread:

Serbian racers

[Flat Black 84]

There was a large immigration, particularly to Fresno and Glendale in California, and California being such a center of racing, apparently racing appealed to many young Armenians. Like countless other young Americans likely they either got involved in the local hot rod scene as teens or attended midget, track roadster or big car racing in the area and got interested. Elisian reportedly was a hot rodder and both he and Agabashian started out in track roadsters/hot rods. And, I believe both families were originally in the Fresno area. Who knows?, perhaps a young Ed Eliseian watched Fred Agabashian race at Oakland Speedway and that inspired him.

Post WWII in the Fresno area, the local hardtop and jalopy racing featured many drivers of Armenian heritage, many with Americanized first or nicknames. I've seen a point standing list for Selma Speedway in Selma, California where 7 of the top 10 were Armenian names. Some of those same drivers became car owners when NASCAR super modifieds ruled the Kearney Bowl. They also became track officials and track operators in the Fresno area.

I don't think it was that much of a boomlet, or bust for that matter (except perhaps in the Fresno area). I think its more down to the fact that a lot more people were involved in racing in the immediate pre and post WWII booms, that there was a "boom" in racing. In California, additionally, there were racers of Mexican, Portugese, Italian, Syrian, Lebanese and Japanese descent and at least a few black (African-American) drivers. A perusal of the entry lists at the speed runs on the dry lakes shows a variety of surnames.

That's good info. Still, the success of the Armenians strikes me as disproportionate. How many Portuguese, Syrian, Lebanese and Japanese drivers/constructors, etc. can we name who hit it big like Calhoun, Agabashian, Elisian, Iskenderian? And I suspect the size of those populations in California was at least as large and quite possibly larger than the Armenian.

PS--Vuk had at least a couple of nicknames: The Mad Russian and The Silent Serb. He hated the former because it was wrong on both counts.

Edited by Flat Black 84, 09 January 2012 - 02:10.

[Jim Thurman]

That's good info. Still, the success of the Armenians strikes me as disproportionate. How many Portuguese, Syrian, Lebanese and Japanese drivers/constructors, etc. can we name who hit it big like Calhoun, Agabashian, Elisian, Iskenderian? And I suspect the size of those populations in California was at least as large and quite possibly larger than the Armenian.

Eddie Haddad, Bobby Rahal, Takeo "Chickie" Hirashima and Larry Shinoda did all right ;) (granted Rahal was from Ohio...), and there were a lot of drivers of Portugese descent that did well on a regional level.

I'm pretty knowledgable on California history, but can't exactly break down the comparative size of different ethnic populations in the 30's through 50's. The Portugese and Japanese populations would have been larger.

I don't think four is that disproportionate, especially per the involvement (as I mentioned in the early 50's in the Fresno area there were a lot of Armenian racers locally). It simply comes off that there were two that had good business savvy and two that had good driving talent that rose above others. Their surnames could have been Smith and the same thing could have happened. It's an interesting little sidebar, but I don't know that it's quite the subject for in depth analysis.

What about three drivers who went on to win Indycar races originating from an area with about 60,000 population?

[Flat Black 84]

Yes, Jim, it could be pure serendipity. Then again, it could be something more than coincidence. At any rate, I just thought it was interesting.

PS--What 60,000-person locale is this of which you speak? I'm too tired to puzzle it out. Some spot in Cali, no doubt.

[Jim Thurman]

Yes, Jim, it could be pure serendipity. Then again, it could be something more than coincidence. At any rate, I just thought it was interesting.

PS--What 60,000-person locale is this of which you speak? I'm too tired to puzzle it out. Some spot in Cali, no doubt.

It is interesting. You're not suggesting the Armenian mob are you? (gasp!)

The San Bernardino-Riverside area, with roughly 60,000 population in the 1930's, produced Rex Mays, Mel Hansen and George Connor. Even more impressive when the three tracks in the area during the era only held a few races before fading into history.

[verde]

Nicolas Minassian is a frenchman of armenian descent.

[Flat Black 84]

It is interesting. You're not suggesting the Armenian mob are you? (gasp!)

The San Bernardino-Riverside area, with roughly 60,000 population in the 1930's, produced Rex Mays, Mel Hansen and George Connor. Even more impressive when the three tracks in the area during the era only held a few races before fading into history.

You underestimate the influence of Bugsy Bedrosian and Ernie "The Piston" Bagratian at your own peril!

[Russ Snyder]

Interesting thought FB.

I guess the Kardashians are the obvious choice to carry this american armenian racing mantle, however, the weight added for seat enhancement might slow them down in the end?

sorry serious TNF'ers, I just could not resist.

Michael - Vuke was from the old/new "yugoslavia', thats what pops always told me. I believe that concurs with the above info provided talking about the current line up of former iron curtian countries.

Jim Thurman hits it on the head with the answer, as he usually does.