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Hewland Ford adaptors


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#1 jcurran

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:32

Hi everyone. As I understand it many lotus twin cam engines when fitted in openwheel race cars utilised 104 tooth flywheels. Was this just with FT200 box or did / do they also make an adaptor for the mk8/9 series boxes?

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:52

I'm no expert, but I'd say they did make them...

Some FAtlantic cars had Mk 8 or Mk 9 boxes, the Tiga run by Alfie Costanzo for one.

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:19

I think Miedecke's March 76B did too - it was the weak point of the car

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:35

If Streak comes along to chime in, he can probably tell us of a few more who ran them here...

And more so the Lotus Twin-Cam engines of the F2 era. There were lots of them.

#5 Peter Morley

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:26

A lot of twin-cam powered cars used VW cased Hewlands (Mark 4, 6, 8, 9 etc in cars like Lotus 23s) not sure what size flywheel they used - most would presumably have used the Formula Junior/Ford sized flywheel.

PDS racing list a lot of different adaptor plates
http://www.pdsracing...ducts/index.htm

The historic ones seem to cover 4 different sized flywheels:
standard = F.Ford
Ford
BMC
small MAE

If that doesn't answer your question they can presumably do so.


#6 fyrth

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 18:18

The 'small' flywheel for a twink is 104 tooth and Peter's answer says the rest.

#7 W154

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:48

Slightly OT, but I am getting desperate.
Didn't see one on the pds site, anybody know where I can get an adaptor for BMC B series motor to VW gearbox, preferably in Australia?

#8 Catalina Park

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:54

Slightly OT, but I am getting desperate.
Didn't see one on the pds site, anybody know where I can get an adaptor for BMC B series motor to VW gearbox, preferably in Australia?

I am half heartedly looking for a BMC A-series to VW and yesterday I spotted this... http://www.volksconv...u/adapters.html


#9 W154

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:42

I am half heartedly looking for a BMC A-series to VW and yesterday I spotted this... http://www.volksconv...u/adapters.html

Ah yes, Mr Sherman. His kits are very, very good but a bit pricey for me. I was hoping someone might have a cheap second-hand one lying around gathering dust in their garage ,but it appears I may have to dig deep and call on the expertise of Mr S.
Thank you for your help.

#10 Catalina Park

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:51

Keep looking, I am sure there is one out there at the right price.

#11 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:52

If Streak comes along to chime in, he can probably tell us of a few more who ran them here...

And more so the Lotus Twin-Cam engines of the F2 era. There were lots of them.


In my experience the 104 tooth ring gear on a BMC sized flywheel was pretty much standard issue on any Ford based engines in rear engined racing and sports racing cars with either VW based Hewland gearboxes or the larger FT200.

#12 jcurran

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:11

Thanks everyone for the replies; all very good info. Looking at the PDS site all the ford to Hewland with BMC size flywheels are 1 1/8th inch thick, while many Twin cams run 2 inch or thicker adaptors. Does anyone know where you can get the wider adaptors?

Thanks.

#13 Peter Morley

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:27

jcurran
Peter Denty should have Lotus style adaptors which I think are thicker, you could try contacting him.

W154
I think that Stuart Rolt in England has a pattern for a BMC-Hewland adpator and can have them cast, he doesn't do e-mails but you can find his contact details in the advert for his Elva 200 on the Formula Junior.com website


#14 Mistron

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 12:55

This info may may or not be relevant, depending if you really want to just buy a ready made adaptor.

When I fitted my small bore a-series to an (inverted) VW box, I bought a fairly chunky Ford adaptor and machined it down. I had to fit a bronze spigot between the input shaft and the flywheel, as the input shaft to the box is narrower.

It was an easy enough project to work out, and any machine shop could knock one up pretty quick. I seem to remember that the starter motor is on the other side of the engine, so that needed a chunk taken out of the plate.

The reason I did it this way was of course cost - the adaptor plate I bought was cheap, and machining costs minimal as I marked out what needed done.

Hope this helps,

Al

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#15 jcurran

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 22:53

jcurran
Peter Denty should have Lotus style adaptors which I think are thicker, you could try contacting him.

W154
I think that Stuart Rolt in England has a pattern for a BMC-Hewland adpator and can have them cast, he doesn't do e-mails but you can find his contact details in the advert for his Elva 200 on the Formula Junior.com website



Thanks for the info. Do you have any contact info for Peter Denty?

#16 Peter Morley

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 23:02

Thanks for the info. Do you have any contact info for Peter Denty?


Peter J. Denty Racing
Mill House
East Wretham near Thetford
Norfolk, IP24 1QS, England
01953-498529 (phone)
01953-498154 (FAX)

peterdentyracing(at)tinyworld.co.uk



#17 W154

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:21

This info may may or not be relevant, depending if you really want to just buy a ready made adaptor.

When I fitted my small bore a-series to an (inverted) VW box, I bought a fairly chunky Ford adaptor and machined it down. I had to fit a bronze spigot between the input shaft and the flywheel, as the input shaft to the box is narrower.

It was an easy enough project to work out, and any machine shop could knock one up pretty quick. I seem to remember that the starter motor is on the other side of the engine, so that needed a chunk taken out of the plate.

The reason I did it this way was of course cost - the adaptor plate I bought was cheap, and machining costs minimal as I marked out what needed done.

Hope this helps,

Al

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I have been thinking about using a set up similar to yours for my application but it presents a few problems .What quantity of oil do you use in the gearbox in its "inverted " position?
How do you drain the oil now that the drain plug is on top of gearbox ?
Use of the gearbox in inverted position must reduce ground clearance to a rather low 2-3 inches?

#18 Mistron

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 17:20

Hi there, I'm afraid I sold the car before completing it several years ago and memories of the details are hazy, but, as it wasn't completed, I never had to fill it with oil, but:
1. I think the guidance I read was that you use the same amount, as the gearbox is fairly constant in size and lubrication is by the gears spraying the oil about?
2. Can't recall what the plan was for draining it, but I think I was going to fit another drain point in the casing.
3. This was how the car was originally built, but yes, I was a bit concerlned about ground clearance - OK for circuit work, I think, but not UK roads!

I think the answers to many of these questions would be available from the chaps in the Historic F junior classes using the VW box in this configuration, either with VW or Hewland internals.

Hope this helps,
Al



#19 W154

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 00:52

Thanks for the information. I can sort out the first two items but number 3 might present problems. Looks like I will have to use normal VW box.

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#20 PAUL S

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:46

When I was sorting out a flywheel for my YB cosworth last year so that I could mate it to the box from my 88d f3000 reynard (Fgb in a reynard casing with direct bolt on pattern to a DFV) I came across a small suitable flywheel that was fitted with a bmc imperial type ring gear ( I think Burtons still sell these), this was no use to me as I wanted to use a modern metric starter.

I had a hunt around and found that a suzuki swift ring gear one was suitable, but couldnt locate one, then ended up with of all things one from a robin reliant! its size was ideal, my flywheel just needed a very slight machine down and with a bit of heat on the ring gear it slid on lovely. There were a few for sale on uk ebay, but all the info I needed I found on a ring gear specialist site in New Zealand which might help you

http://www.ringgear...._Products.shtml

http://www.burtonpow...r...&q=flywheel

Edited by PAUL S, 21 June 2012 - 09:58.


#21 Mistron

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 17:46

Thanks for the information. I can sort out the first two items but number 3 might present problems. Looks like I will have to use normal VW box.


I think it'll give you about 3-4 inches more ground clearence, and instead of inverting the box you simply swap the pinion to the other side of the ring gear, an easy job. It will raise the C of G, so it's a simple trade off. What car is it you are building?

Al