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Rosberg v. Schumacher, 2012


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#1 Afterburner

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 22:33

Rosberg v. Schumacher, 2012

Overview

Since his comeback in 2010, Michael Schumacher has drawn the attention of many Formula One followers--for positive and negative reasons. The underlying hope held by many of his fans was that Schumacher would be up to speed immediately, and helping Mercedes towards the front of the grid sooner rather than later. But after the first few races of 2010, and throughout 2011, the hope began to fade as reality took on a very different picture: Schumacher was being outpaced on a number of occasions by his young teammate, Nico Rosberg.

When tested by conventional standards, Nico Rosberg's true potential remains a mystery--his years at Williams are simultaneously cited as being proof that he has talent and proof that he will never be a champion. Generally, opinion on his time at Mercedes is quite similar. One thing is clear, however: his high salary indicates that the brain-trust at Mercedes has faith in him, and his results over the past two years have done little to indicate that this trust is misplaced.

The Drivers

Michael Schumacher is regarded as the senior driver at Mercedes for his 20+ years in Formula One. A veteran of nearly three-hundred Grand Prix weekends, a winner of ninety-one races, and a seven-time world champion, there are few records that Michael Schumacher has not claimed during his Formula One career. But records and stats only go so far. Since his time at Mercedes, Schumacher has been criticised for his poor form in comparison to his teammate and the impact his comeback will have on his legacy. Though 2010 and 2011 were statistically two of his worst seasons in Formula One, Schumacher has left the door open for a continuation of his comeback beyond 2012.

Nico Rosberg is the highest-paid driver on the Formula One grid to have never won a race. Despite consistently out-qualifying his teammate and finishing ahead of Schumacher in the Drivers' World Championship for two years in a row, he has retained the team's even-numbered car and yellow t-cam during his time at the team--distinctions which generally indicate number-two driver status among the top teams. Rosberg has maintained that he is not intimidated by Schumacher, but admits that the has a respect for the sport's most-successful driver in terms of statistics. Rosberg's contract with Mercedes extends beyond 2013.

What 2012 Means for Them

Nico Rosberg is looking for a continuation of his form at Mercedes into 2012, maintaining his statistical position as team leader and torch-bearer at the Mercedes AMG Grand Prix Team. He will be coming into 2012 from a position of strength, looking to guide the team to victories and, potentially, a chance at the World Championship. Rosberg's qualifying record and race performances indicate he will be both a strong and reliable force going into 2012. With plenty of years before him, Rosberg's future is still ahead of him--his star is rising, and it could start rising faster in 2012. A victory over Schumacher for the third year in a row would certainly boost his reputation and make him an attractive prospect to top teams who might help fulfill his championship aspirations if success at Mercedes fails to materialise.

Michael Schumacher's situation could be described as 'critical' at best. Schumacher has been at the tail end of the Mercedes operation for two consecutive years, and collisions with other drivers and poor qualifying performances have been his most prominent weaknesses since his comeback. But among his numerous errors have been flashes of brilliance--his charge towards the front in a sopping-wet Canadian Grand Prix and an inspiring drive from the back of the grid at the famous Spa-Francorchamps among these. The ever-present question stands: can Schumacher make this positive form permanent, or are these occasional sterling drives the last shards of glory Schumacher has to offer? Can he recover enough of his former pace to be successful before it's gone forever?

The stage is set, and winter testing is about to begin. Mercedes has gone all-out on hiring engineers to strengthen its car development process. Will 2012 finally be their year? Will Schumacher mount a comeback within a comeback and finally give Rosberg a serious run for his money? Or will Rosberg deal a knockout blow and perhaps send Schumacher packing once and for all?

It's age and experience versus youth and enthusiasm, round three, at the Mercedes AMG Grand Prix Team in 2012. The fight is on.

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#2 ivand911

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:49

I think this year MS could finish ahead of Nico. Depend from the car. If they fight again for 7-8th will be one thing , but if they fight for podiums regularly it will be another thing. For me MS give Nico serious run for his money even in 2011.

#3 Pizdek

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:56

great intro! :wave:

My opinion is same as Ivan. Schumacher have the best chance to be better then Nico but final verdict will be 3-0 Nico. 2010 2011 2012.

#4 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:02

Rosberg v. Schumacher, 2012

Overview

Since his comeback in 2010, Michael Schumacher has drawn the attention of many Formula One followers--for positive and negative reasons. The underlying hope held by many of his fans was that Schumacher would be up to speed immediately, and helping Mercedes towards the front of the grid sooner rather than later. But after the first few races of 2010, and throughout 2011, the hope began to fade as reality took on a very different picture: Schumacher was being outpaced on a number of occasions by his young teammate, Nico Rosberg.

When tested by conventional standards, Nico Rosberg's true potential remains a mystery--his years at Williams are simultaneously cited as being proof that he has talent and proof that he will never be a champion. Generally, opinion on his time at Mercedes is quite similar. One thing is clear, however: his high salary indicates that the brain-trust at Mercedes has faith in him, and his results over the past two years have done little to indicate that this trust is misplaced.

The Drivers

Michael Schumacher is regarded as the senior driver at Mercedes for his 20+ years in Formula One. A veteran of nearly three-hundred Grand Prix weekends, a winner of ninety-one races, and a seven-time world champion, there are few records that Michael Schumacher has not claimed during his Formula One career. But records and stats only go so far. Since his time at Mercedes, Schumacher has been criticised for his poor form in comparison to his teammate and the impact his comeback will have on his legacy. Though 2010 and 2011 were statistically two of his worst seasons in Formula One, Schumacher has left the door open for a continuation of his comeback beyond 2012.

Nico Rosberg is the highest-paid driver on the Formula One grid to have never won a race. Despite consistently out-qualifying his teammate and finishing ahead of Schumacher in the Drivers' World Championship for two years in a row, he has retained the team's even-numbered car and yellow t-cam during his time at the team--distinctions which generally indicate number-two driver status among the top teams. Rosberg has maintained that he is not intimidated by Schumacher, but admits that the has a respect for the sport's most-successful driver in terms of statistics. Rosberg's contract with Mercedes extends beyond 2013.

What 2012 Means for Them

Nico Rosberg is looking for a continuation of his form at Mercedes into 2012, maintaining his statistical position as team leader and torch-bearer at the Mercedes AMG Grand Prix Team. He will be coming into 2012 from a position of strength, looking to guide the team to victories and, potentially, a chance at the World Championship. Rosberg's qualifying record and race performances indicate he will be both a strong and reliable force going into 2012. With plenty of years before him, Rosberg's future is still ahead of him--his star is rising, and it could start rising faster in 2012. A victory over Schumacher for the third year in a row would certainly boost his reputation and make him an attractive prospect to top teams who might help fulfill his championship aspirations if success at Mercedes fails to materialise.

Michael Schumacher's situation could be described as 'critical' at best. Schumacher has been at the tail end of the Mercedes operation for two consecutive years, and collisions with other drivers and poor qualifying performances have been his most prominent weaknesses since his comeback. But among his numerous errors have been flashes of brilliance--his charge towards the front in a sopping-wet Canadian Grand Prix and an inspiring drive from the back of the grid at the famous Spa-Francorchamps among these. The ever-present question stands: can Schumacher make this positive form permanent, or are these occasional sterling drives the last shards of glory Schumacher has to offer? Can he recover enough of his former pace to be successful before it's gone forever?

The stage is set, and winter testing is about to begin. Mercedes has gone all-out on hiring engineers to strengthen its car development process. Will 2012 finally be their year? Will Schumacher mount a comeback within a comeback and finally give Rosberg a serious run for his money? Or will Rosberg deal a knockout blow and perhaps send Schumacher packing once and for all?

It's age and experience versus youth and enthusiasm, round three, at the Mercedes AMG Grand Prix Team in 2012. The fight is on.


Good summit of the pre-season constellation. :up: You're serious poster!

 ;)

My prediction:

IF the car is good for podiums or even wins, NR will take them regularily. MS has probably a spectacular win in special circumstances still in him, a la Canada 2011. Other than that, I believe IF the car is good, his qualifying weakness will hit him even harder than before, cause it would mean many grid places between NR and him.

Now to the IF... frankly I don't expect MGP to produce such a car, but rather trundle around as fourth / fifth best team, which could lead to Mercedes pulling the plug sooner rather than later.

#5 ivand911

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:06

I think if the car is good Michael Qualy strategy will be different. No matter what it will be interesting. If MS get podium or win , I don't care if Nico beat him in the end.

#6 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:06

A+ for the opening post. Should be a standard to look at.

Can't hardly wait for the tests to start. If the W03 is competetive, we can start weighing up NR and MS for real.

#7 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:10

A+ for the opening post. Should be a standard to look at.

Can't hardly wait for the tests to start. If the W03 is competetive, we can start weighing up NR and MS for real.


I'd like you to say that to Nicos face, the last two years not being "for real". Even with him being Britney, you should probably wear a helmet doing it. :p

#8 jrg19

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:21

Nico for the 3rd year, I'd like to see a podium or win for Michael in his last year though.

#9 Hacklerf

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:24

I say Schumacher, the great one, the peoples champion will once again reign supreme, beating his younger teammate, it will be close of course but i feel he is now to push on from last year.

I would love a podium or victory for Schumi this year

#10 Hacklerf

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:25

I say Schumacher, the great one, the peoples champion will once again reign supreme, beating his younger teammate, it will be close of course but i feel he is now to push on from last year.

I would love a podium or victory for Schumi this year

#11 tifosiMac

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:37

I say Schumacher, the great one, the peoples champion will once again reign supreme, beating his younger teammate, it will be close of course but i feel he is now to push on from last year.

I would love a podium or victory for Schumi this year

I wouldn't say once again as he is yet to do that. I think Schumacher is struggling over a single lap, getting enough heat into his Pirelli tyres. Its a bit of a Webber/Vettel situation IMO as Michael seems to have good pace during the race. As we have seen over the past 2 years, qualifying is extremely important and this is an area Michael needs to improve if he wishes to be ahead of his teammate by the end of the year. I'd love to see him on the podium once again and dare I say it, win a race. :)

#12 Boing 2

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:41

Schumachers biggest problem this year will be the competition, last year there was a cluster of front runners and a cluster of mid fielders and Mercedes straddled the two. That meant they usually fell into a comfortable time gap between both groups so that Schumacher was physically close to Rosberg on the grid and was able to neutralise poor qualifyings with good starts. If Renault and maybe Sauber/Force India (Williams would probably need a miracle to get up there) close up on the front runners then MS might get much more harsly penalised for his lack of qualifying speed and find himself with 4-5 cars extra in front of him.

#13 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:46

I'd like you to say that to Nicos face, the last two years not being "for real". Even with him being Britney, you should probably wear a helmet doing it. :p



It was no pun towards NR. I still rate him serious WDC material. I have never said otherwise, and he was always somebody I have kept my eyes on, before MS's surprise comeback. Don't really care what other fan's perception of Rosberg is, I think he is a good benchmark. But I promise I will state that for the last time, it is kind of obvious that 3 posts later it will be forgotten by everyone. Yes, I am a MS supporter. But if he does not succeed again, I will still sleep well. I am not making predictions, I want to see how this pans out. As to saying it to NR's face, and the last 2 years: I could say it anytime, and as to 'real', it was not real, no, for neither of them. They were fighting for nothing. The only realistic goal for the drivers was to get the car finished in 7-8th places, where it belonged. There was a big gap before and after them. Not a very competitive environment you might admit. MS was substantially behind in 2010, and marginally in 2011. Is either year indicative? Not for me, until the car is competitive enough to fight for something worthwhile that gives the necessary edge to a teammate battle. That is why I dearly hope for a car that can fight for podiums. NR may beat MS, or may not. The verdict is not out yet. Not by me anyway.

#14 Richardc

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:47

I say Schumacher. It was stupidly close last year - schumacher with better maximum performances, only losing due to a couple of unfortunate DNFs.

I'm not sure what is going on with his qualifying, since they had some close ones last year and some miles apart.

The new EBD rules should also suit him more, but this is just in theory and hope. I don't think a podium is out of the question though.

#15 Tonka

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:58

MS has the seat because he sells cars for Mercedes. He's not had to win any races to succeed in that job for the last 2 years. MS is ten years over the hill, every season his reactions and ability drop that little bit further down the slope. NR is young and hungry. He's the future of Mercedes, if they can build a race winning car. NR can only get better for the next couple of years. If Mercedes don't let him stay in front of MS, he'll be off elsewhere at the first offer from a decent team.

Will either win a WDC? No. One is too old, the other doesn't have the killer instinct required to get to the top.



#16 Wi000

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:05

Great OP :up:

Looking forward to see what the Mercs can do this year, would be great to see Michael on the podium together with Vettel :cool:

#17 LewEngBridewell

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:18

I'm pretty sure Nico Rosberg will outperform Michael Schumacher yet again. Goodness knows why the latter is still allowed to have the lower number on his car..... :confused:

#18 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:28

It was no pun towards NR. I still rate him serious WDC material. I have never said otherwise, and he was always somebody I have kept my eyes on, before MS's surprise comeback. Don't really care what other fan's perception of Rosberg is, I think he is a good benchmark. But I promise I will state that for the last time, it is kind of obvious that 3 posts later it will be forgotten by everyone. Yes, I am a MS supporter. But if he does not succeed again, I will still sleep well. I am not making predictions, I want to see how this pans out. As to saying it to NR's face, and the last 2 years: I could say it anytime, and as to 'real', it was not real, no, for neither of them. They were fighting for nothing. The only realistic goal for the drivers was to get the car finished in 7-8th places, where it belonged. There was a big gap before and after them. Not a very competitive environment you might admit. MS was substantially behind in 2010, and marginally in 2011. Is either year indicative? Not for me, until the car is competitive enough to fight for something worthwhile that gives the necessary edge to a teammate battle. That is why I dearly hope for a car that can fight for podiums. NR may beat MS, or may not. The verdict is not out yet. Not by me anyway.


Forgive me, but that's BS. Beating your teammate fighting for 7th means the same as fighting for 1st, i.e you have been better than your teammate.
The verdict so far is simple NR has been better. As for all other pairs that's subject to change for every new season, obviously. I somehow doubt you'd file 2012 under 'not for real' if, say MS beats NR by 30 point but neither of them winning a race, or would you? Did MS beat Brundle in 1992 'for real' or was that a fluke too?

#19 Zava

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:39

Good summit of the pre-season constellation. :up: You're serious poster!

;)

My prediction:

IF the car is good for podiums or even wins, NR will take them regularily. MS has probably a spectacular win in special circumstances still in him, a la Canada 2011. Other than that, I believe IF the car is good, his qualifying weakness will hit him even harder than before, cause it would mean many grid places between NR and him.

Now to the IF... frankly I don't expect MGP to produce such a car, but rather trundle around as fourth / fifth best team, which could lead to Mercedes pulling the plug sooner rather than later.

this, except the last part, I think they'll be closer to the top3 this year.

and :up: :up: to the OP, too bad the topic itself won't be as good as the opening post.

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#20 ivand911

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:39

I'm pretty sure Nico Rosberg will outperform Michael Schumacher yet again. Goodness knows why the latter is still allowed to have the lower number on his car..... :confused:

Who can forbid it? It is team decision who will have which number.


#21 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:39

Forgive me, but that's BS. Beating your teammate fighting for 7th means the same as fighting for 1st, i.e you have been better than your teammate.
The verdict so far is simple NR has been better. As for all other pairs that's subject to change for every new season, obviously. I somehow doubt you'd file 2012 under 'not for real' if, say MS beats NR by 30 point but neither of them winning a race, or would you? Did MS beat Brundle in 1992 'for real' or was that a fluke too?


Well there is a difference of opinion between us obviously, and yes, I forgive you. As for Brundle and '92, MS had so many things to prove, now he does not have to prove anything, unlike NR. He was quite relaxed about it, and said so too. This year,if he will be beaten in the style you predict in a car that is competitive, I will "file it under real", as you put it, and be relaxed about it too. That is what I said, and I really can't add anything more to this.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 January 2012 - 11:41.


#22 Mastah

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:40

Great OP, Afterburner :up:.

Nico will teach Grandpa third year in a row. If the field is closer this time, and I believe it will be, then difference in one lap pace will be even more significant. I definitely can see Nico in top 8, while Schumi can have problems with getting into top 15. After all average difference between them was AFAIR 4-5 tenths, with some qualis up to monstrous 1 second. I don't have to say from which position it's easier to get better result in a race.

The problem for Mercedes is neither of them is maximizing full potential of the car, so no matter how fast W03 is, they both will be few tenths off that limit.



I think if the car is good Michael Qualy strategy will be different.


The sooner you will understand there is no quali strategy, only lack of one lap pace on fumes, the better.

#23 Hacklerf

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:42

I'm pretty sure Nico Rosberg will outperform Michael Schumacher yet again. Goodness knows why the latter is still allowed to have the lower number on his car..... :confused:



Schumi is superstitious, he asks numbers, Nico doesn't mind so lets him have it

#24 ivand911

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:50

Great OP, Afterburner :up:.

Nico will teach Grandpa third year in a row. If the field is closer this time, and I believe it will be, then difference in one lap pace will be even more significant. I definitely can see Nico in top 8, while Schumi can have problems with getting into top 15. After all average difference between them was AFAIR 4-5 tenths, with some qualis up to monstrous 1 second. I don't have to say from which position it's easier to get better result in a race.

The problem for Mercedes is neither of them is maximizing full potential of the car, so no matter how fast W03 is, they both will be few tenths off that limit.

The sooner you will understand there is no quali strategy, only lack of one lap pace on fumes, the better.

Mastah, you can spare us with your wisdom. Your prediction is marked and accepted. It is time for predictions now , who is right we will see later in the season. So, guys give your predictions. It is not time for "discussion" yet. We didn't see the car yet. And it is about 2012 , I think?

Edited by ivand911, 18 January 2012 - 11:55.


#25 Lelouch

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:10

First off, Happy New Year to everyone ( better late than never :p ) and Afterburner that was a masterpiece of an OP. :-)
As for 2012 i think it will be Schumacher's best chance to turn the tables especially, if the indications that the W03 will be a closer match to his driving style prove right. Now if the car is where it's supposed to be i expect both of them to raise their game and Rosberg will be desperate to break the ice, so it will be very interesting to watch. As for a prediction i think realistically one could say that after 2 years of watching this pair i would go with something like 60-40 in favor of Rosberg. Anyway, i hope that they will both shine and especially Schumi because F1 is less interesting for me without my favourite driver to support and i hope he will be higher than Rosberg in the final standings.

#26 hammibal

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:23

A+ for the opening post. Should be a standard to look at.

Can't hardly wait for the tests to start. If the W03 is competetive, we can start weighing up NR and MS for real.



It was no pun towards NR. I still rate him serious WDC material. I have never said otherwise, and he was always somebody I have kept my eyes on, before MS's surprise comeback. Don't really care what other fan's perception of Rosberg is, I think he is a good benchmark. But I promise I will state that for the last time, it is kind of obvious that 3 posts later it will be forgotten by everyone. Yes, I am a MS supporter. But if he does not succeed again, I will still sleep well. I am not making predictions, I want to see how this pans out. As to saying it to NR's face, and the last 2 years: I could say it anytime, and as to 'real', it was not real, no, for neither of them. They were fighting for nothing. The only realistic goal for the drivers was to get the car finished in 7-8th places, where it belonged. There was a big gap before and after them. Not a very competitive environment you might admit. MS was substantially behind in 2010, and marginally in 2011. Is either year indicative? Not for me, until the car is competitive enough to fight for something worthwhile that gives the necessary edge to a teammate battle. That is why I dearly hope for a car that can fight for podiums. NR may beat MS, or may not. The verdict is not out yet. Not by me anyway.

That sort of reads like Schumacher wasn't trying because he only had the 4th best car

Who can forbid it? It is team decision who will have which number.

No its by Schumacher's request

Schumi is superstitious, he asks numbers, Nico doesn't mind so lets him have it

Rosberg is being the bigger man methinks

#27 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:31

That sort of reads like Schumacher wasn't trying because he only had the 4th best car


Yes, it does, if we simplify it, and why shouldn't we, it is kind of obvious it reads like that. Sort of. NR was better for 2 years. Odds are, things will stay that way. Since we are not playing poker, I bet against the odds, so to speak.

edited typos

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 January 2012 - 12:34.


#28 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 13:44

Well there is a difference of opinion between us obviously, and yes, I forgive you. As for Brundle and '92, MS had so many things to prove, now he does not have to prove anything, unlike NR. He was quite relaxed about it, and said so too. This year,if he will be beaten in the style you predict in a car that is competitive, I will "file it under real", as you put it, and be relaxed about it too. That is what I said, and I really can't add anything more to this.


Not that it bothers me cause I've obvioulsy never been a fan, but I find it almost insulting to suggest MS doesn't care about being beaten. This about the man who would leave no stone unturned if slower than Irvine or Barrichello even in a single session, the man who couldn't gift RB a victory without putting in some blinding laps just so everyone knew what was happening. The man who never gives an inch to Rosberg when they meet on track (all that being proper behaviour of a race driver IMO, just to be clear).

And then some of his fans come along and declare 'nah, he ain't trying hard, not for real'. :well:

#29 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 14:18

Not that it bothers me cause I've obvioulsy never been a fan, but I find it almost insulting to suggest MS doesn't care about being beaten. This about the man who would leave no stone unturned if slower than Irvine or Barrichello even in a single session, the man who couldn't gift RB a victory without putting in some blinding laps just so everyone knew what was happening. The man who never gives an inch to Rosberg when they meet on track (all that being proper behaviour of a race driver IMO, just to be clear).

And then some of his fans come along and declare 'nah, he ain't trying hard, not for real'. :well:


I never said he doesn't care, have I? :). MS himself said it disturbs him, but it does not trouble him until the car is not competitive, not the exact words.. It was a BBC interview on-track, if I remember correctly. I hardly think you would find anything insulting enough concerning MS, though I admit you wrote 'almost'*. It is just futile to debate this any longer until the season starts and we have feedback on what we think is to be right or wrong, I said my say, you said yours, nothing you could say now that will alter stance on this, so lets just postpone further discussion till march-april on this topic.



* sorry for that, I had somebody else on my mind when I wrote it. uncalled for by your posts.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 January 2012 - 15:06.


#30 ivand911

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 14:18

And then some of his fans come along and declare 'nah, he ain't trying hard, not for real'. :well:

Still I remember times when he was helping Nico(2010) and other of his team mates, so in that moment he wasn't trying hard at 100%. So it happens. Also I am sure he doesn't think like some 20 year old.

Edited by ivand911, 18 January 2012 - 14:19.


#31 fieraku

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 14:35

I think if the car is good Michael Qualy strategy will be different. No matter what it will be interesting. If MS get podium or win , I don't care if Nico beat him in the end.

Me neither!It will be an interesting scorecard regardless,lets see if Merc can build a great car to keep their drivers away from the wrath of midfield crash bonanza crash happy teenagers and paydrivers.

#32 hammibal

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 15:28

Yes, it does, if we simplify it, and why shouldn't we, it is kind of obvious it reads like that. Sort of. NR was better for 2 years. Odds are, things will stay that way. Since we are not playing poker, I bet against the odds, so to speak.

edited typos

Well i suppose Schumacher can afford the luxury of not trying too hard, any other driver it wouldnt be good for his career

Still I remember times when he was helping Nico(2010) and other of his team mates, so in that moment he wasn't trying hard at 100%. So it happens. Also I am sure he doesn't think like some 20 year old.

What was he thinking like when he showed Rubens the wall close to 200 mph?

#33 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 15:35

Well i suppose Schumacher can afford the luxury of not trying too hard, any other driver it wouldnt be good for his career


What was he thinking like when he showed Rubens the wall close to 200 mph?



exactly the case


Who has a bigger dick? It was fun. RB did not back out, but squealed like a pig afterwards. No wander they did not keep him at Williams.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 January 2012 - 15:36.


#34 jj2728

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 15:37

I've said this before that if Mercedes comes up with a good car then between the 2 of them both NR and MS are more than capable of competing for the top step of the podium. Should be an interesting 2012 for the Silver Arrows team.

#35 PNSD

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 15:43

Not the biggest MS fan... at all but in his latter years and now during his come back I've found alot more respect for him. I thought he was an absolute prick during the mid to late 90's and he was, but he certainly changed later on and became quite the interesting character.

I've enjoyed seeing him do well, as much as I have see him flounder. 2011 was certainly a major step up, and if he can continue that trend then Nico is going to have to improve.

I like Nico alot, see him as a potential champion, but for that to happen he needs to convincingly beat a strong Schumacher. Let's face it, Schumacher now is not as strong as he was before, he is still a good driver, one of the best but for Nico to be considered a potential champion/race winner IMO he needs to really beat Schumacher in a big way.



#36 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:27

Still I remember times when he was helping Nico(2010) and other of his team mates, so in that moment he wasn't trying hard at 100%. So it happens. Also I am sure he doesn't think like some 20 year old.


Well, I think MS does think like a 20 year old in a way, and it's actually part of his strength (but also, like it always was, his weakness). I sense the same enthusiam as ever, always thought that was the real standout asset of MS throughout his career, I can't imagine any other great going on for that long, especially not after such a mighty successful career.

That's to a large part why I can't accept any of that 'holding back', 'not trying 100 percent', 'not for real' or whatever it's called. All that would be total anathema to the Schumacher I watched through his whole F1 career. I've certainly seen him do all kinds of silly stuff, but not once did I see him not trying his best, often enough even beyond reason.

#37 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:31

I never said he doesn't care, have I? :). MS himself said it disturbs him, but it does not trouble him until the car is not competitive, not the exact words.. It was a BBC interview on-track, if I remember correctly. I hardly think you would find anything insulting enough concerning MS, though I admit you wrote 'almost'*. It is just futile to debate this any longer until the season starts and we have feedback on what we think is to be right or wrong, I said my say, you said yours, nothing you could say now that will alter stance on this, so lets just postpone further discussion till march-april on this topic.



* sorry for that, I had somebody else on my mind when I wrote it. uncalled for by your posts.


Not sure I can make sense of the bolded, but other than that: :up:

Only that I don't really expect we'll get a chance to prove either of us right, I still don't see MGP breaking into the big three teams in 2012.

#38 Wi000

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:33

Goodness knows why the latter is still allowed to have the lower number on his car..... :confused:

Perks of a 7 x WDC, he asks the team giveth :cool:

#39 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:38

Well, I think MS does think like a 20 year old in a way, and it's actually part of his strength (but also, like it always was, his weakness). I sense the same enthusiam as ever, always thought that was the real standout asset of MS throughout his career, I can't imagine any other great going on for that long, especially not after such a mighty successful career.

That's to a large part why I can't accept any of that 'holding back', 'not trying 100 percent', 'not for real' or whatever it's called. All that would be total anathema to the Schumacher I watched through his whole F1 career. I've certainly seen him do all kinds of silly stuff, but not once did I see him not trying his best, often enough even beyond reason.


never said he was holding back, and I have never said NR had more points because MS did not give it 100%. All I am saying is that if the car is competitive, MS is an altogether different animal.



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#40 fieraku

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:47

never said he was holding back, and I have never said NR had more points because MS did not give it 100%. All I am saying is that if the car is competitive, MS is an altogether different animal.

Yep,Canada was an indicator of how competitive he can be until the car let him down.

#41 as65p

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:48

never said he was holding back, and I have never said NR had more points because MS did not give it 100%. All I am saying is that if the car is competitive, MS is an altogether different animal.


And all I'm saying is that makes no sense to me. Hadn't we already agreed to disagree? :wave:

#42 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 16:52

And all I'm saying is that makes no sense to me. Hadn't we already agreed to disagree? :wave:

yep. my bad


#43 hammibal

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 17:16

exactly the case


Who has a bigger dick? It was fun. RB did not back out, but squealed like a pig afterwards. No wander they did not keep him at Williams.

So no real indication that Schumacher has been holding back

never said he was holding back, and I have never said NR had more points because MS did not give it 100%. All I am saying is that if the car is competitive, MS is an altogether different animal.

Might we see him in the stewards office more often then? ;)

Still its all just supposition especially if qualifying continues to be a problem for him

#44 cheapracer

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 19:49

Not that it bothers me cause I've obvioulsy never been a fan, but I find it almost insulting to suggest MS doesn't care about being beaten. This about the man who would leave no stone unturned if slower than Irvine or Barrichello even in a single session, the man who couldn't gift RB a victory without putting in some blinding laps just so everyone knew what was happening. The man who never gives an inch to Rosberg when they meet on track (all that being proper behaviour of a race driver IMO, just to be clear).

And then some of his fans come along and declare 'nah, he ain't trying hard, not for real'. :well:


Indeed and has been heard to be disappointed to be behind Rosberg on occasion.


Forgive me, but that's BS. Beating your teammate fighting for 7th means the same as fighting for 1st, i.e you have been better than your teammate.


Tell that to Button who has never given a shit until he is in a winning position. There's been a few other drivers who haven't performed admirably until they get a winning car, makes a difference to some apparently.

The sooner you will understand there is no quali strategy, only lack of one lap pace on fumes, the better.


A number of drivers chose to save tyres through 2012 qualifying and it paid off for MS on a number of races.


#45 hammibal

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 20:02

A number of drivers chose to save tyres through 2012 qualifying and it paid off for MS on a number of races.

Thats really not true though, Schumacher often used 2 sets of softs to try and get into Q3 sometimes failing whilst Rosberg had a much easier time of it, to suggest Schumacher was simply saving tyres is a bit ingenious to say the least. When he got into Q3 then he would save tyres but then again often he didnt exactly have any tyres to save.

#46 baddog

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 20:08

If I was writing the intro for what I hoped to be a de-facto place for discussion for a whole year, I would try to make my posting in some way unbiased in tone and content. Just a tip for the future.

#47 britishtrident

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 21:04

Cyclic theory of history, just copy and paste all the posts from the last two seasons :yawnface:



#48 exmayol

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 00:12

I actually care less if NR has more points as long as MS keeps delivering drives like Canada, Spa or Monza. Regardless of the car I think they will be even closer in 2012.

#49 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 00:51

Well, I'll be honest. I don't at all root for MS. That being said i hope AMGMGP gets the car right this year and mixes it up with the big boys. MS and NR better be ready to prove what they're worth both as drivers and paid employees. As far as rollhoop colors and numbers go, i'd say Wi000 had it right with the 7x wdc thing. That and MS enormous ego plus NR is a company man. This car is made for MS- longwheel base and such so i'd say the pressure is more on him. I'm rooting for Rosberg to send Mikey back to being to Stig. [liked him there for some reason]. Also Ross has to be feeling the pressure. If they don't show better this season, HEADS WILL ROLL :rotfl: Yes i also enjoyed Afterburners post. :up:

#50 sharo

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:07

Well, I'll be honest. I don't at all root for MS. That being said i hope AMGMGP gets the car right this year and mixes it up with the big boys. MS and NR better be ready to prove what they're worth both as drivers and paid employees. As far as rollhoop colors and numbers go, i'd say Wi000 had it right with the 7x wdc thing. That and MS enormous ego plus NR is a company man. This car is made for MS- longwheel base and such so i'd say the pressure is more on him. I'm rooting for Rosberg to send Mikey back to being to Stig. [liked him there for some reason]. Also Ross has to be feeling the pressure. If they don't show better this season, HEADS WILL ROLL :rotfl: Yes i also enjoyed Afterburners post. :up:

You must have some real inside information then. Unlike us.