70 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Seeing as the Morris Minor was a monocoque, it's very hard to compare it to a Spitfire or Herald chassis...

From memory, there was more than just a passing resemblance between the Herald and the Skoda.

[Tony Matthews]

I have played around with VWs and there is not much strength in the floors at all. The backbone does not get any strength from the floors. The suspension loads are taken through the backbone and not the floors.
You can remove and replace the floors without hurting the structure.

This may or may not help. Visit the Cutaway thread for a better version.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 21 January 2012 - 21:54.

[Lee Nicolle]

I disagree! I am surprised to find myself defending the Herald/Spitfire chassis but having recently worked on one--I chopped it up--I found that I was quite impressed. Better made than the Lotus although not as light. It has the usual mud/corrosion traps that all older cars suffer from. It is unquestionably a "backbone chassis" unlike the VW Beetle, Morris Minor or other bowls of porridge.

David, what problem do you have with the VW? The basic structure is quite well engineered, in fact very similar to an early Porsche. Yes I know that they do not go, stop or handle. But nor does a Herald. Which could and should have been a far better car than it is as designed and built in the early60s in comparison the the mid 30s like the VW. And rusts out structurally regularly unlike the VW.
And I have seen a lot of very quick modified VWs but never seen a quick Herald, just a few not so slow ones that no longer uuse Herald power.
And as Ray pointed out a Moggy Minor is a moncoque construction car

[David Birchall]

Aren't we taking this a little too seriously?

[arttidesco]

Thank you, but I don't remember pointing out what had a backbone chassis. Only what didn't . In fact, I wouldn't call what passes for a Herald chassis a chassis, more a collection of bent metal loosely assembled.

Looking back your quite right, but your opinion was welcome :-)

[elansprint72]

Aren't we taking this a little too seriously?

[elansprint72]

This discussion now seems to have transferred to the Lotus 26/R thread.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by elansprint72
This discussion now seems to have transferred to the Lotus 26/R thread.

Surely that isn't permitted?

Or does someone plan to use a Tatra backbone in a race car?

[David Birchall]

Or does someone plan to use a Tatra backbone in a race car?

Didn't that already happen? I seem to recall Prof. Mike Seal of Seattle built a sports racer using Tatra components in the early sixties---
VINCE! Are you out there!! We need somebody who actually knows what they are talking about

[David McKinney]

And they were successfully raced in the 1920s

[elansprint72]

And they were successfully raced in the 1920s

Dreadful grammar; he ejaculated.

[David McKinney]

What's wrong with it?

[Ray Bell]

Somewhere I have a photo of one (or is it two or three?) racing at Brno...

I've posted them on this forum, but via the AtlasF1 webspace so they may not be seen now. I would still have it though, I think it might have been from the late sixties.

[Peter Leversedge]

Chev 1959 to 1964

[Ray Bell]

You mean the Corvair?

Did they copy that from the VW too?

[cheapracer]

For no reason, just another backbone chassis under a pretty car ..



From this silly or fantastic site depending on your sense of reasoning ..

http://www.studiotim...num_fabrication

[Ray Bell]

Hard to determine the way to reason on that...

These cars are worth so much, is it worth more with the alloy body (and the rust gone) or is it now too far departed from the original to be worth as much?

Crazy stuff, as you intimate. But it's what some people do.

[Peter Leversedge]

Ray - The full sized sedans had an X shaped frame that allowed a lower floor. In 1965 they went to a "perimeter" frame to achieve a lower floor

[maoricar]

Additionally, the Corvair had a fairly distinctive kind of rear subframe; endowing it with more than enough strength to support some 'interesting' engine swaps.
As for the rest of the Corvair it probably owed less to VW than it did to other US based air-cooled pioneers...Lycoming, Continental, Franklin and the like.
Nev

[David Birchall]

For no reason, just another backbone chassis under a pretty car ..



From this silly or fantastic site depending on your sense of reasoning ..

http://www.studiotim...num_fabrication

Did any of you notice who the man is who did this work-especially you Cutaway Artistes?
Hint: The car is Japanese...

Oh borrocks, it's Yoshikawa!!

Edited by David Birchall, 25 January 2012 - 16:52.

[Jagjon]

.
Reading Tim's copy of Motoring Mavericks at the moment I should have realized the back bone idea went back to the dawn of motoring.

Thanks to every one who has thrown in their 10¢ worth, I am getting the picture there are many variations to the back bone concept and now have a potted time line :-

Rover 1903
Tatra 1923
Skoda 1933
Clisby 1952 (?)
Alpine Renault 108 1959
Alpine Renault 110 1961 with fibreglass body
Lotus Elan 1962 with fibreglass body

Tartra and Alpine Renaults backbone did not contribute the same sort of rigidity as the others

TVR used multi tube back bone with outriggers since ?

Fiat 1500 in the 1930's had a tubular backbone Y shaped around the engine & g/box & outriggers to take the rear springs & under the sill area, but Lotus seems to exploited the idea pretty successfully with the pressed steel application.