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Volkswagen to enter F1 in 2014?


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#1 r4mses

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 16:43

According to sport1.de quoting the German journal Wirtschaftswoche and Volkswagen motor sports representative Wolfgang Dürheimer VW is working on plans to enter F1 by 2014.

Allegedly there are plans to join as engine supplier first before taking over an existing team. Dürheimer however did not confirm it's about Torro Rosso. There have been internal discussion on joining F1 for two years but so far got vetoed by Ferdinand Piech.

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#2 Red17

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 16:59

Well, it's true Bernie has been baiting VW and we are yet to know the fate of Audi at Lemans (and WEC).
The interesting bit is that the rumour seems to have changed from HRT to STR, techically Faenza is by far a better option and everyone knows STR is for sale.

But the core is that final bit: Herr Piech, I suspect his veto will go on, specially if the plan is a total takeover. It's a mistake, VW should stick to engine program, maybe help building the car but let the petrol blooded run the show.

#3 Disgrace

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:03

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#4 noikeee

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:06

They're entering the WRC already next year. I seriously doubt they'd enter F1 at the same time.

#5 Fastcake

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:22

They're entering the WRC already next year. I seriously doubt they'd enter F1 at the same time.


They're a big company with a dozen different brands, it's easily possible for them to enter both. Question is whether they are finally going to make that decision, this has been rumoured for some years now.

#6 Anomnader

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:24

I thought Ferdinand Piech had retired.

#7 Andy865

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:25

They were coming in as Audi, but that effort was pulled. They are launching programmes in the WEC and WRC.

I cant see it happening, though we need a few more engine suppliers.

#8 onewingedangel

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 18:06

With these rumours of both Honda and VW working on 2014-onwards F1 ,that may or not get the go ahead, I have to wonder how many other such projects were stillborn that we never heard about.

I'd have thought VW would target the main Red Bull team though - where they would take over the team but maintain Red Bull title sponsorship in lieu of an upfront purchase cost - eg. Red Bull Volkswagen for 3 years with same/similar livery as present with VW picking up the tab.

#9 Zava

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 18:09

With these rumours of both Honda and VW working on 2014-onwards F1 ,that may or not get the go ahead, I have to wonder how many other such projects were stillborn that we never heard about.

I'd have thought VW would target the main Red Bull team though - where they would take over the team but maintain Red Bull title sponsorship in lieu of an upfront purchase cost - eg. Red Bull Volkswagen for 3 years with same/similar livery as present with VW picking up the tab.

but that's not gonna happen with the renault tie-up until 2016 (or '17?)

#10 Sakae

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 18:12

Audi in F1? Sounds very good to me.

#11 Crafty

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 18:18

This comes up every few months and soon falls apart, do a search.

#12 onewingedangel

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 18:19

but that's not gonna happen with the renault tie-up until 2016 (or '17?)


Depends on the contract really - could be bought out, or passed to the sister team (as Red Bull did with their Ferrari engines).

Would purchase of STR really suit VW - they'd essentially build it into a whole new team - a base in Italy would only be logical if they used the Lamborghini name, and logistically isn't as good as the UK (or Germany) - and if they just want an entry I'm sure they would be given preference for the 13th spot, and there are other teams (HRT) that would be cheaper to buy just for a spot.

Supplying engines to STR as they develop the engine before tying up with Red Bull proper though could have some merit - if the engine programme is a dud they could just withdraw (Red Bull would have a comparision to the Renault powerplant) if it proves competitive they could step up their involvement.

Edited by onewingedangel, 28 January 2012 - 18:22.


#13 katmen

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 18:39

if true it could be german dream team with vettel plus VW

#14 r4mses

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 19:28

This comes up every few months and soon falls apart, do a search.


Sure it does. But this time it's different. After all they don't quote some random "person connected to the brand" or whatever but the man in charge of VW's motor sports campaing. And it's not some random yellow press desperate for publicity but the Wirtschaftswoche, a well established and respectable - not sure if that's the proper adjective - economy journal.

#15 BigCHrome

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:33

if true it could be german dream team with vettel plus VW


It wouldn't be a dream team unless they also got Newey.

#16 dionisi

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:08

if true it could be german dream team with vettel plus VW

they already have one: Schumacher und Mercedes

#17 H2H

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:40

Sure it does. But this time it's different. After all they don't quote some random "person connected to the brand" or whatever but the man in charge of VW's motor sports campaing. And it's not some random yellow press desperate for publicity but the Wirtschaftswoche, a well established and respectable - not sure if that's the proper adjective - economy journal.


Reuters and a lot of others are also reporting it for the very reason. It is Wolfgang Dürheimer speaking, head of VW Motorsports. He doesn't say VW will be in F1 but that F1 would be the best motorsport solution regarding brand presence in America, Asia and the near East. Indy and Nascar could be to means to reach the kind of brand awareness in the USA. He also confirms that he will present the board with concepts in this regard. So much for the ufficial part, it sounds not like too much but it is far more then anything we had before in the last ten years and it is pretty much all you can get before an ufficial announcement.

VW prüft Pläne für Formel-1-Einstieg
Samstag, 28. Januar 2012, 14:13 Uhr

Diesen Artikel drucken

Frankfurt (Reuters) - Europas größter Autokonzern Volkswagen prüft Pläne für einen Einstieg in die Auto-Rennserie Formel 1.

Der VW-Motorsportbeauftragte Wolfgang Dürheimer sagte dem Magazin "Wirtschaftswoche" laut Vorabmeldung, er werde dem Vorstand in Kürze ein Motorsport-Konzept vorlegen, das auch eine Beteiligung an der höchsten Rennklasse vorsehe. "Ich werde mein Konzept noch in diesem Jahr dem Konzernvorstand vorstellen und Vorschläge einbringen, die nicht nur die Rennserien betreffen, die wir heute bedienen", sagte Dürheimer. Gemessen an den geplanten Verkaufszahlen sei VW in Amerika, in Asien und dem mittleren Osten im Motorsport noch nicht ausreichend repräsentiert. Dafür wäre die Formel 1 die beste Lösung, sagte der frühere Porsche-Vorstand Dürheimer. Details nannte er nicht.

Unter Berufung auf VW-Kreise berichtete das Magazin, es werde erwogen, zunächst als Motorenlieferant einzusteigen. Die heutige VW-Beteiligung Porsche hatte in den 80er Jahren als Motorenlieferant bei dem erfolgreichen Formel-1-Rennstall McLaren mitgewirkt. Das Dürheimer-Konzept sehe angeblich vor, zu einem späteren Zeitpunkt die Mehrheit an einem Rennstall zu erwerben. Ein möglicher Kandidat könnte Toro Rosso aus dem Besitz des österreichischen Unternehmers Dietrich Mateschitz sein, dem auch das Red-Bull-Team mit Formel-1-Weltmeister Sebastian Vettel gehört.

Auch in den USA sehe das Dürheimer-Konzept ein stärkeres Engagement vor. Dort setze es allerdings nicht auf die Formel 1, die in den USA weniger beachtet werde, sondern auf Indycar- und Nascar-Rennen.


One has to keep in mind that VW is fastest growing big player and without any shade of doubt among the top 2 in terms of size. It is clearly more profitable then GM, which might have twisted the facts to get a claim on the sales crown. VW for example did not include the sales of MAN and Scania in which they have majority share. With those they would have sold more then GM which already includes the sales of SAIC and Wuling into their total despite not even owning the majority at Wuling.

From an accounting perspective this is exactly what I would expect from a German and an American company, at least when it is not about taxes ;)


DETROIT (ks)–Die Opel-Mutter GM verkaufte nach eigenen Angaben 2011 gut 9 Mio Autos. Auf Rang zwei folgt Europas Branchenprimus Volkswagen, der etwa 8,2 Mio Wagen losschlagen konnte. Auf den Bronze-Platz rutschte der Weltmarktführer von 2010, Toyota, mit 7,9 Mio Verkäufen ab. Die Japaner wurden im vergangenen Jahr von massiven Qualitätsproblemen, dem Erdbeben im März sowie der Flut in Thailand ausgebremst.

Kaum hatte GM den Führungsanspruch geltend gemacht, meldete sich Volkswagen zu Wort und kritisierte die Berechnungsmethoden der Amerikaner. Im Gegensatz zu GM habe Volkswagen nicht die Verkäufe sämtlicher Tochtergesellschaften einbezogen, sagte ein Sprecher. Hätte man das gemacht, also zum Beispiel die Verkäufe der mehrheitlich in VW-Besitz befindlichen Lkw-Hersteller Scania und MAN berücksichtigt, wäre VW die Nummer Eins gewesen, erklärte der Sprecher.

Sauer stößt den Wolfsburgern vor allem auf, dass GM den Absatz der Beteiligungen am größten chinesischen Automobilkonzern Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) sowie an Liuzhou Wuling Motors in seine Konzernzahlen einbezieht. Diese Tatsache sehen übrigens auch einige Branchenexperten kritisch, da GM nicht die Kontrolle über Wuling besitzt: “Irgendwo müssen wir einen Strich ziehen, um eine weltweite Vergleichbarkeit herzustellen”, sagt stellvertretend Jeff Schuster, Analyst beim Marktforschungsunternehmen LMC Automotive.



So VW would be really a big player in F1. I would love to see them as at least as engine suppliers and I think the rules of 2014 are a great incentive and fit the engine philosophy of VW.

Edited by H2H, 29 January 2012 - 07:42.


#18 pingu666

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:44

well the rules where written to bring in vw group, and they didnt bite.

vw could of likely won the dakar again this year had they simply decided to turn up.

maybe theres just some yearly mandate at vw to investigate F1, then go naahhhh

#19 seahawk

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:27

It about the planing of motorsport from 2016 for the whole Volkswagen group. F1 has always been discussed in those meetings and so far has always been rejected.

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#20 flyer121

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:33

It wouldn't be a dream team unless they also got Newey.


Last time i checked newey was not a german.

#21 MatsNorway

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:44

I can`t blaim VW for not doing the dakar... its a joke calling it the dakar these days.

V6 turbo is more a audi thing than a lambo thing. guessing with audi.

#22 HistoryFan

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:51

Audi out of Le Mans (after Peugeot exit and with Porsche enters)
Audi in in F1

#23 F1ultimate

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 12:48

VW are interested if there it will be possible to develop an engine that will be versetile enough to work across STCC, F1 and Rally. V6 across the entire range.

#24 jrg19

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 13:11



my reaction

#25 pingu666

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 13:53

I can`t blaim VW for not doing the dakar... its a joke calling it the dakar these days.

V6 turbo is more a audi thing than a lambo thing. guessing with audi.


because its not in africa or because of dodgy stewards?

its still a great challenge, and i dont think vw won a dakar in africa actully

#26 Crafty

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 16:30

VW are interested if there it will be possible to develop an engine that will be versetile enough to work across STCC, F1 and Rally. V6 across the entire range.


Except that when they were in talks last year they insisted on a 4 cylinder engine, hence new regs went that way. When they bailed the 4 pot rule was no longer necessary.


#27 2ms

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 17:53

VW own Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Bentley, etc. The people' car (VW) brand seems like one of the least likely of these to be put into F1. Yes, VW were basically the pioneers and still leaders of modern direct injection turbo engines. But I still see VWs in rally, touring car, etc much more than in F1. To me it's almost like Mini or something going into F1. It just doesn't make nearly as much sense as Audi or Porsche. VW doesn't even make a single rwd sportscar. The R cars are brilliant, but they're distinctly performance variants of primarily passenger cars, not sportscars nearly so much as typical manufacturers in F1 like Ferrari, Lotus, McLaren, BMW, AMG Mercedes.

Edited by 2ms, 29 January 2012 - 17:54.


#28 jrg19

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 18:00

Porsche would have a nice ring to it if it was in F1

#29 redbarron

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 20:05

I love my Golf GTI. Easily the best car i've owned! I hope VW get some presence in F1. The move to F1 makes more sense once turbo's come into the picture.

#30 BRG

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 20:26

2000

2001

2005

and so on.

VW aren't coming to F1. Nor are Audi, SEAT, Skoda, Lambo, Bugatti, Bentley or Porsche. Well, maybe Porsche, one day, but not soon.

#31 H2H

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 21:02

2000

2001

2005

and so on.

VW aren't coming to F1. Nor are Audi, SEAT, Skoda, Lambo, Bugatti, Bentley or Porsche. Well, maybe Porsche, one day, but not soon.


VW might buy the rest of Porsche. Anyway I would like to see another big engine manufactur in the sport, the turbos have certainly sparked interest.




#32 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 21:13

It would be nice to see Honda come back as well as seeing VW in the mix. I think it was suggested VW could supply MaCa with the '14 engine. Let's just hope some come in while the current ones stay in as well.

#33 Ian G

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 22:28

2000

2001

2005

and so on.

VW aren't coming to F1. Nor are Audi, SEAT, Skoda, Lambo, Bugatti, Bentley or Porsche. Well, maybe Porsche, one day, but not soon.


I think rumours of VW in F-1 goes back to the 1960's when they purchased Audi from Merc. but under the current Economic climate you would think its extremely unlikely but you never know,they might want to prove a point to Merc. somewhere down the line.

#34 Red17

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 22:43

I think rumours of VW in F-1 goes back to the 1960's when they purchased Audi from Merc. but under the current Economic climate you would think its extremely unlikely but you never know,they might want to prove a point to Merc. somewhere down the line.

Hmmm, wasnt Audi actually a dormant marquee until the NSU renaming?

#35 Amphicar

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 23:03

Hmmm, wasnt Audi actually a dormant marque until the NSU renaming?

Yes. Audi was one of the four car companies that merged in 1932 to create Auto Union (the others were Horch, DKW, and Wanderer). The four rings of the current Audi badge represent the four original companies. After the war, Auto Union was in Russian sector of Germany and the company was liquidated. A new Auto Union company, based in West Germany was launched in 1949 and was acquired by Daimler Benz ten years later. This was the company that VW bought from Daimler Benz in the mid 1960s and which became Audi.

#36 Ian G

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:40

Hmmm, wasnt Audi actually a dormant marquee until the NSU renaming?


It was around that time,late 1960's,Porsche & VW were very chummy,i still have the magazine article that refers to VW considering entering Motor Sport including F-1,i'll try and find it next W/end.

#37 H2H

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:53


Audi would perhaps be my top pick. Auto Union pioneered many key engineering concepts still valid in today's F1, with the positioning of their engine behind the driver clearly being the most famous one.

#38 Sakae

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:58

I have actually emotional ties to Audi, and it would please me immensely to see them racing in F1. DKW used to be our "family vehicle", and Audi was the very first car that I bought unaided as a "salary man". Excellent, agile vehicle, innovative engineering behind it, but then, which one hasn't? :)

Edited by Sakae, 30 January 2012 - 12:01.


#39 Amphicar

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 13:04

I know people have cried Wolf(sburg) about VW entering F1 too often but there are reasons to think that there might be some truth to it this time. Consider this:

1) VW currently own 49.9% of Porsche and on 14 February Volkswagen's supervisory board will discuss plans to acquire the remaining 50.1 %

2) VW have a policy of not allowing their marques to compete against one another with works support in international series;

3) Porsche have announced that they intend to return to Le Mans with an LMP1 car in 2014;

4) So when Porsche return to LMP1 sportscar racing, Audi will have to find somewhere else to race - and 2014 just happens also to be when the new F1 engine formula starts.

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#40 H2H

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 13:37

I know people have cried Wolf(sburg) about VW entering F1 too often but there are reasons to think that there might be some truth to it this time. Consider this:

1) VW currently own 49.9% of Porsche and on 14 February Volkswagen's supervisory board will discuss plans to acquire the remaining 50.1 %

2) VW have a policy of not allowing their marques to compete against one another with works support in international series;

3) Porsche have announced that they intend to return to Le Mans with an LMP1 car in 2014;

4) So when Porsche return to LMP1 sportscar racing, Audi will have to find somewhere else to race - and 2014 just happens also to be when the new F1 engine formula starts.



A fine overview :up:

Personally I was so far never convinced by a VW entry but somehow this seems different to me.



#41 Talisman

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 16:14

Audi will have to find somewhere else to race


Or not race at all...

#42 nawz

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 18:20

I think Sauber would be a good buy?

#43 Sakae

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 19:18

I think Sauber would be a good buy?

Is Sauber for sale? (curious - did not hear anything)

#44 bass6

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 19:26

I know people have cried Wolf(sburg) about VW entering F1 too often but there are reasons to think that there might be some truth to it this time. Consider this:

1) VW currently own 49.9% of Porsche and on 14 February Volkswagen's supervisory board will discuss plans to acquire the remaining 50.1 %

2) VW have a policy of not allowing their marques to compete against one another with works support in international series;

3) Porsche have announced that they intend to return to Le Mans with an LMP1 car in 2014;

4) So when Porsche return to LMP1 sportscar racing, Audi will have to find somewhere else to race - and 2014 just happens also to be when the new F1 engine formula starts.


Excellent points, Amphicar. Your reasoning made me think of a couple more reasons why Audi might be seriously looking at F1 -

a) Audi came and conquered Le Mans, but it's a once a year race which is not widely followed, especially outside of Europe. F1, on the other hand, has races in China, India and Brazil (the three fastest growing economies) as well as Malaysia, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and potentially the US and even Russia. These are the countries with the greatest potential for growth in sales of Audi and WV cars.

b) Audi's two biggest competitors Mercedes and BMW have entered the sport. BMW had moderate success but left kinda with it's tail between it's legs, Mercedes have been successful as an engine builder, less so as a team. Wouldn't Audi love to come to F1 and beat it's rivals? Just as a thought, if Audi entered as an engine supplier, would it want to be represented by back-mid field teams? McLaren are looking for an engine supplier for 2015!

#45 Amphicar

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 19:58

Excellent points, Amphicar. Your reasoning made me think of a couple more reasons why Audi might be seriously looking at F1 -

a) Audi came and conquered Le Mans, but it's a once a year race which is not widely followed, especially outside of Europe. F1, on the other hand, has races in China, India and Brazil (the three fastest growing economies) as well as Malaysia, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and potentially the US and even Russia. These are the countries with the greatest potential for growth in sales of Audi and WV cars.

b) Audi's two biggest competitors Mercedes and BMW have entered the sport. BMW had moderate success but left kinda with it's tail between it's legs, Mercedes have been successful as an engine builder, less so as a team. Wouldn't Audi love to come to F1 and beat it's rivals? Just as a thought, if Audi entered as an engine supplier, would it want to be represented by back-mid field teams? McLaren are looking for an engine supplier for 2015!

Thanks bass6, I agree with you. Furthermore, Audi and VW are doing very well in terms of sales. Both saw their European sales rise by 9% in 2011 and the Golf is Europe's best selling model. Not only that, VW is also very profitable - in the first 9 months of last year VW's profits equaled those for the whole of 2010 and their third quarter profits (€2.89 billion) were 46% higher than in 2010. So, if they want to, they can afford to use F1 as a springboard for world domination.

#46 Red17

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 20:06

Excellent points, Amphicar. Your reasoning made me think of a couple more reasons why Audi might be seriously looking at F1 -

a) Audi came and conquered Le Mans, but it's a once a year race which is not widely followed, especially outside of Europe. F1, on the other hand, has races in China, India and Brazil (the three fastest growing economies) as well as Malaysia, Abu Dhabi, Singapore and potentially the US and even Russia. These are the countries with the greatest potential for growth in sales of Audi and WV cars.

b) Audi's two biggest competitors Mercedes and BMW have entered the sport. BMW had moderate success but left kinda with it's tail between it's legs, Mercedes have been successful as an engine builder, less so as a team. Wouldn't Audi love to come to F1 and beat it's rivals? Just as a thought, if Audi entered as an engine supplier, would it want to be represented by back-mid field teams? McLaren are looking for an engine supplier for 2015!

All makes sense for anyone who loves racing, putting it for good PR use and the added bonus of beating some fellow rivals. But the thing is the people with power (the board) have shown they are not interested.

Last year portuguese AS went as far as to claim Piech hated Formula 1. It's an Hercules task to convince such a person that at this point of economic crisis buying out a team is a good idea, even if such buyout is phased.

Im not saying it's impossible, but so far it looks like more of an idea of a department rather than a company strategy.

Personally I think this news was leaked to gather some public support and change a few no votes in the board, if there was a real chance for this idea to pass on the board it would have been done behind doors.

#47 Sakae

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 20:17

Revised Concorde Agreement could launch new interests previously unexplored. Engineers are practical people who are by their nature usually not overly impressed with hedge fund speculators. Should conditions change, I am expecting new (and old) names in the arena to fight it out. VW I think is on the record repeatedly that they would not accept current conditions. I can't momentarilly recall, but wasn't there rumour floating around, that Audi wanted to enter as a sole supplier of engines? If true, I would not like that at all; in fact I want to unfreeze design, and let competition in once again.

#48 iotar

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 20:21

I think Sauber would be a good buy?

Only logical option. Best facilities in F1, only problem it would be the former BWM team.

#49 Crafty

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 21:13

Revised Concorde Agreement could launch new interests previously unexplored. Engineers are practical people who are by their nature usually not overly impressed with hedge fund speculators. Should conditions change, I am expecting new (and old) names in the arena to fight it out. VW I think is on the record repeatedly that they would not accept current conditions. I can't momentarilly recall, but wasn't there rumour floating around, that Audi wanted to enter as a sole supplier of engines? If true, I would not like that at all; in fact I want to unfreeze design, and let competition in once again.


Quite the opposite, when Audi showed interest last year sometime they demanded 4 cylinder engines, so the 2013/2014 engine rules were changed to suit them, then they decided not to bother.




#50 Sakae

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 21:35

I fear that I do not understand implications of "not to bother"? Have they made a formal request (proposal) which was later withdrawn? I am lazy to do searches (which never work for me very well anyway), but back of my mind there was some buzz I read somewhere that they want to be a sole engine supplier. Maybe my recollection is flawed.

Edited by Sakae, 30 January 2012 - 21:36.