27 replies to this topic

[AAGR]

In the mid-1960s Tecalemit Jackson developed a fuel injection system for race car engines. I recall travelling down to Plymouth to see the operation in (about) 1967.

For a time the system was used on racing/rallying Fords, such as the Broadspeed Anglias, and on some 'works' Lotus-Cortinas.

But then .... what happened ?

AAGR

Edited by AAGR, 12 February 2012 - 19:43.

[Allan Lupton]

From memory the T-J was a pretty crude system, not unlike Hilborn-Travers, that didn't control the mixture much, let alone precisely so the metered and timed systems would have been more suitable for rally cars.
Lucas had a system in production by 1967 (Triumph TR5 PI) and the wholly mechanical Kugelfischer system was to be found on Peugeot 404s as early as 1962 and the 1966 Safari winner was so equipped.

[RS2000]

I had previously thought the answer was that Appendix J Group 2 regs changed to only allow fuel injection where it was originally fitted. Not so for the period in question it seems.
The FIA only offers the 1969 and 1971 regs on its site but that is enough to show it only changed to that for 70 or 71. 69 regs seem much as 66 onwards (ie. the "new" Appendix J), except for clarification of any "intermediate device" for the "free" carburetters after the 68 Monte debate over BMC's "splits". No mention of fuel injection (the TJ system fitted on to the mandatory standard inlet manifold on the Mk2 Lotus Cortinas). 71 regs say injection only if originally fitted.
The search for information on the recent 68 Swedish Rally thread revealed that Ove Andersson's works Cortina retired when the throttle linkage froze and a "rod" broke. That suggests TJ injection rather than carbs? For rallying at least, did someone simply say "we don't need this s**t while developing the new Escort TC"?
Or, by 68, they already knew it was to be effectively banned in Gp2 by 70 or 71 and therefore was now a blind alley. Obviously, in later years it changed again (presumably at the same time inlet manifolds became free?).

Edited by RS2000, 12 February 2012 - 21:56.

[AAGR]

Sorry guys, maybe I didn't word my query exactly correctly. I think I know enough about the motorsport history - but I wanted to know what eventually happened to the system, or the technology? Did it, for instance, ever get close to being used on any road-car engines ? Did it figure as a manufacturer's option on any engines of the time ?

Clearer now ?

[Lee Nicolle]

From what I have read about it it was never going to be any good on a road car. Like most constant flow systems.
Though I know a 350 Chev hotrod that used an old Hilborn 2 1/16 on petrol with moderate results. It did start and idle ok, it did drive ok and seemed very good for top end power. But I suggest a Holley would have been better for everything than top end grunt.
Really a bit like most of our classic speedway cars, though being on methanol they need a squirt of petol down some trumpets for cold start.

And old 2500PI Triumphs have often been converted to carb.
Though the old Benz and BMWs still seem to be ok, though often blow plenty of black smoke off of idle!

[jatwarks]

And old 2500PI Triumphs have often been converted to carb.
Though the old Benz and BMWs still seem to be ok, though often blow plenty of black smoke off of idle!

I seem to remember that the TJ injection needed constant tinkering to keep it working efficiently; something a production car definitely doesn't need.

[Allan Lupton]

Sorry guys, maybe I didn't word my query exactly correctly. I think I know enough about the motorsport history - but I wanted to know what eventually happened to the system, or the technology? Did it, for instance, ever get close to being used on any road-car engines ? Did it figure as a manufacturer's option on any engines of the time ?

Clearer now ?

My original response applies: T.J. was little more than a semi-controlled hose aimed into the induction system which was fine for alcohol-burning racing engines (as I wrote, like Hilborn-Travers) but not a patch on metered and timed systems (Lucas, Bosch, Kugelfischer, etc.).

And old 2500PI Triumphs have often been converted to carb.
Though the old Benz and BMWs still seem to be ok, though often blow plenty of black smoke off of idle!

Carbs have always been easier to maintain and I'd say that Lucas system spares availability would be why the Triumphs have been converted.
Do you mean D-B and BMW petrol-injection cars or diesels?

Edited by Allan Lupton, 13 February 2012 - 10:07.

[Lee Nicolle]

My original response applies: T.J. was little more than a semi-controlled hose aimed into the induction system which was fine for alcohol-burning racing engines (as I wrote, like Hilborn-Travers) but not a patch on metered and timed systems (Lucas, Bosch, Kugelfischer, etc.).


Carbs have always been easier to maintain and I'd say that Lucas system spares availability would be why the Triumphs have been converted.
Do you mean D-B and BMW petrol-injection cars or diesels?

I have never seen a carby diesel!! Yes I mean 60s upmarket Benz and Bimmers Petrols.

[Allan Lupton]

I have never seen a carby diesel!! Yes I mean 60s upmarket Benz and Bimmers Petrols.

Sorry but black smoke off idle is a diseasel characteristic!
Black smoke at idle is not unusual with mechanical PI systems: if you consider the volume of fuel needed per cycle at idle it must be quite hard to control it to such fine limits and rich mixture is the safe option.
The Bosch and Kugelfischer systems used by Daimler-Benz and BMW (and Peugeot) in the period you refer to were mechanical.
Back to basics, you almost never find a carb on a modern car as even entry-level shopping cars seem to have had single point PI for 15-20 years now.

[jeffbee]

In the mid-1960s Tecalemit Jackson developed a fuel injection system for race car engines. I recall travelling down to Plymouth to see the operation in (about) 1967.

For a time the system was used on racing/rallying Fords, such as the Broadspeed Anglias, and on some 'works' Lotus-Cortinas.

But then .... what happened ?

AAGR

I seem to remember Bill Bradley's F2 Brabham running the T & J system in the mid 60s. I don't think it did him any favours.

[seldo]

Sorry but black smoke off idle is a diseasel characteristic!
Black smoke at idle is not unusual with mechanical PI systems: if you consider the volume of fuel needed per cycle at idle it must be quite hard to control it to such fine limits and rich mixture is the safe option.
The Bosch and Kugelfischer systems used by Daimler-Benz and BMW (and Peugeot) in the period you refer to were mechanical.
Back to basics, you almost never find a carb on a modern car as even entry-level shopping cars seem to have had single point PI for 15-20 years now.

I seem to recall that early injected Volvos (1967-68) used a K-Jetronic Bosch-system, but this utilised a wafer-thin steel valve plate that, after a few years, succumbed to the ravages of water in the fuel, and the problems grew from there as the rust ate the vestiges of the metering plate's port-valves and the system fell into decline.

[malcolm6]

Lotus used TJ on the 62 sports car and when the remaining 904 engines were purchased by Bill Blydenstein he continued with it in 'Old Nail' and other Firenza's plus the HC Viva owned by Gabriel Konig -the Viva is still in running order and fitted with TJ - plumbing problems a few years back were resolved by an ex TJ employee, who had access to the orginal layout, since when it has been faultless - 'don't fiddle with it' was his parting advice.
Agree totally with an earlier comment it is rather on the dripping bucket principle and will fill the bores if left on without the engine running

[JB Miltonian]

From an old article on Fuel Injection by LJK Setright:

"It is perhaps unfortunate that for a long time nobody tried to make the injection apparatus measure what the carburettor measures automatically, which is the mass flow of air into the engine. In 1970, the Tacalemit engineer Jackson produced an electro-pneumatic system that actually measured what was required (instead of inferring it from other measurements), and the idea of mass-flow measurement was enthusiastically taken up thereafter by Bosch, who modified their existing electronic system accordingly. Unlike Bosch, the Tecalemit subsidiary Petrol Injection Limited did not get their system into production; but more recently they have announced a modified version (reverting to timed injection) that is likely to find takers."

Does this mean that Bosch paid royalties to TJ on the design, possibly on an "exclusive"? I don't know.

[PJGD]

Several patents here on Fuel Injection by Harold E Jackson, but nothing that Bosch would need to pay royalties on IMO.

http://worldwide.esp...p;compact=false

PJGD

[David Birchall]

Long before 1970 Bosch had been providing fuel injection systems for automobiles both petrol and diesel that injected sequential spurts of fuel either into the intake port or directly into the combustion chamber. The racing Porsches used it but from about 1970 on wards so did the road going cars. It is a complex system using what is essentially a diesel injection pump.
The next system Bosch came up with-in 1973- was the CI (for Constant Injection) that simply squirted a continuous stream of fuel into the intake runner. It did however use a sensor plate system which served both as an air mass meter and as a deterant to using high lift camshafts due to the pulsations in the intake runner causing the plate to flutter. Their next system was the EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) which used sensors, computers and solinoid controlled injectors to provide fine control of fuel entering the engine.

I nearly bought a Tecalemit Jackson system for an E Type Jag that I was intending to race-it was very basic with minimal control of fuel flow. The "throttle bodies" resembled modified Weber carbs. I have no idea how well it would work--fine at full throttle I suspect.

[Jake Alderson]

Long before 1970 Bosch had been providing fuel injection systems for automobiles both petrol and diesel that injected sequential spurts of fuel either into the intake port or directly into the combustion chamber. The racing Porsches used it but from about 1970 on wards so did the road going cars. It is a complex system using what is essentially a diesel injection pump.
The next system Bosch came up with-in 1973- was the CI (for Constant Injection) that simply squirted a continuous stream of fuel into the intake runner. It did however use a sensor plate system which served both as an air mass meter and as a deterant to using high lift camshafts due to the pulsations in the intake runner causing the plate to flutter. Their next system was the EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) which used sensors, computers and solinoid controlled injectors to provide fine control of fuel entering the engine.

I nearly bought a Tecalemit Jackson system for an E Type Jag that I was intending to race-it was very basic with minimal control of fuel flow. The "throttle bodies" resembled modified Weber carbs. I have no idea how well it would work--fine at full throttle I suspect.

I know Chris Lawrence sold Tecalemit Jackson set ups for tuned Morgan (TR) engines and others.
I have tried myself to find out more on the company itself, which appears to have long gone. What was the business in the 1960s and was it based in Plymouth?
Jake Alderson
Morgan historian

[mariner]

The TJ system was developed by the Tecalemit company based in Plymouth IIRC.They of course produced garage equipment including grease guns etc.

The system was purely mechanical with a high pressure pump and a ring main feeding the injectors at 90psi. It worked on the "spill" or "dump" principle whereby more fuel was dumped back into the tank at low power demand than full power.

Coventry Climax tested it several times in th 1960's ( source -Des Hamill "Climax racing engines" ) and the same book reports that TJ injection was fitted to the 3 litre Climax V-8 used in the Trevor Taylr driven Shannon in a Silverstone race in 1966. So I suppose you could claim TJ reached F1.

Lotus also used TJ injection on the Lotus 30, including , I think, that car's run at the TT with Jim Clark.

TJ added many extra controls like cold start to make it suitable for road use but it never met theOEM's standards and, I think, it was overtaken by the developments in EFI and the Bosch juggernaut in that area.

[Morris S]

The 1969 BSCC winning Arden Cooper S driven by Alec Poole used TJ as did British Vita's ETCC winning car the year previous.

[Mistron]

As did one of the Ecosse Imp single seaters.

It seems the system was an evolutionary step behind the bigger players FI systems which were coming to the fore at the time.

I've recently come across the Wal Philips injector system which sounds slightly more basic, but similar in its operation. It seems to have had some popularity as an aftermarket 'tuning' accessory, particularly on scooters and some small engined cars.

[xj13v12]

I nearly bought a Tecalemit Jackson system for an E Type Jag that I was intending to race-it was very basic with minimal control of fuel flow. The "throttle bodies" resembled modified Weber carbs. I have no idea how well it would work--fine at full throttle I suspect.
[/quote]

The Guy Bedington V12 E-Type Modsports car ran a TJ system. They had a lot of trouble making it work. The entire system and engine was last seen on a T-Model hotrod in the Haynes Museum in Cornwall I think. I have a photo somewhere.

[malcolm6]

Lot more detail on TJ installation / layout etc - http://www.mk1-perfo...hnical_carb.htm

[Nick Barltrop]

It may have been sold as such, but to call the Wal Philips device a 'fuel injection system' is a bit of an exaggeration... it was a cast alloy tube with a throttle butterfly for the airflow. Fuel was 'controlled' by a rod that ran horizontally across the top of the tube, and a hole in the rod let the fuel in. And that was about it. The butterfly and the rod were linked together and the idea was to get them sort of synchronised to your throttle. Because there was no other fuel control, float chamber or whatever, the trick on a bike was to bump start it by running like hell to give you time to turn on the fuel tap, jump on and let out the clutch. If it didn't start, you dried out the spark plug & tried again, if it did start you probably wished you'd managed to get on the saddle before it fired up....

[Mistron]

It may have been sold as such, but to call the Wal Philips device a 'fuel injection system' is a bit of an exaggeration... it was a cast alloy tube with a throttle butterfly for the airflow. Fuel was 'controlled' by a rod that ran horizontally across the top of the tube, and a hole in the rod let the fuel in. And that was about it. The butterfly and the rod were linked together and the idea was to get them sort of synchronised to your throttle. Because there was no other fuel control, float chamber or whatever, the trick on a bike was to bump start it by running like hell to give you time to turn on the fuel tap, jump on and let out the clutch. If it didn't start, you dried out the spark plug & tried again, if it did start you probably wished you'd managed to get on the saddle before it fired up....

you missed the bit about it setting fire to your trousers which seems to have been a fairly common occurance too!

By all accounts they were very inconsistent in performance as they were often only gravity fed, so supply varied on the level of fuel in the tank. A pump, a remote float bowl, or better still, a pressure regulator improved things a lot, but whether it was worth the hassle seems to still be open to some debate!

[Gungebucket]

There is quite a lot of misleading information in this thread. Difficult to know where to start without writing a whole book! I worked for Petrol Injection Ltd from 1963 to 1968 and continued to be involved with them for a few years after that. In 1967 I was the resident engineer at Ford Competitions Department, Boreham and all the Cortinas entered in the 1967 RAC rally were equipped with T-J fuel injection. (The rally was cancelled at the last minute because of the foot and mouth epidemic). All the Lotus 30s, 40s and 47s were equipped with T-J injection from the factory. The Lotus LV220 engines and the LV 240s also used T-J. I remember testing an LV240 engine with Colin Chapman and another guy at Lotus, Wymondham as I developed the fuel cam.

Many racing saloon cars also used T-J including Broadspeed and there were many car manufacturers who had development road cars fitted with the system for evaluation... these included Ford, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Simca, ASA (a spin off of Ferrari) and several others. The system went through many iterations and road kits were available for a large number of makes. A lot of development work went on and many new ideas were patented. Bosch were infringing many of the company's patents and Bosch settled out of court in the early 1970's for a very large sum of money. The company took the money... said thank you very much and then closed its doors.

[Gregor Marshall]

And I think Bosch also bought all the patents and ip for TJ!!

[Tuscan58]

I'm researching the history of TJ Filters, which I believe was a part of Tecalemit Jackson. Can anyone help please? Looking at this thread, there might even be the odd ex-employee of the group out there. I'm also trying to find out what I can about Harold Jackson. If anyone could help, they would be rewarded with gratitude, and possibly filters! Thank you ...

[Gungebucket]

Hi, the  Jackson in Tecalemit Jackson was "Bill Jackson" or at least that is what we all called him (including his wife!!). David.

[mk1]

Lot more detail on TJ installation / layout etc - http://www.mk1-perfo...hnical_carb.htm

 

Gungebucket, I run the site that is linked here.

 

I would be very keen to hear from you regarding the possibility of doing a short article on TJ injection.  As you can see I already have quite a lot of info, but I would be keen to expand this section.  If you want to contact me I'd be very pleased.

Best regards, mark Forster.

Edited by mk1, 24 July 2014 - 14:47.