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'BRM Day' October 2012 (merged)


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#101 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:04

I know Henri wears glasses as I've seen him wearing them recently. However I still have no idea if it was Pescarolo in the green helmet, as I didn't see him in the paddock. Alan Cox posted on this issue at one point this morning, but then withdrew his posts. Reine Wisell was rumoured to be wandering about also, but I didn't see him either.

I don't know who it was actually driving, but it wasn't Pescarolo, according to the commentators. At one stage they were going on about how nice it was that the driver concerned had taken the trouble to appear in a Pescarolo-green helmet.

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#102 Pullman99

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:13

In the same vein, the ultimate headline for me would read "Lauder wins at Donnington in McClaren". :rolleyes:


Quite! Whatever became of the "Blood Pressure" thread, anyway? Sorry I missed a great day; I had to be at work, unfortunately.

#103 ensign14

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:24

Ah, the grandson of Sir Harry Lauder, well-known for his rendition of
"You take the high wing
and I'll take the low wing,
and I'll be at Monza before you..."

:cool:

Paul M

They kept right on to the end of the road. North Street, as I recall.

#104 Giraffe

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:24

Pete Aron escaped from the 'Grand Prix' - the out-takes? thread for the day.......

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#105 alansart

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:32

Thanks for all the photos everyone. It looked a really good day and an excellent turnout of drivers, cars and spectators...pity I missed it :cry:

Edited by alansart, 08 October 2012 - 14:33.


#106 Giraffe

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:01

Deleted when I realised that the photo it didn't add anything to the debate - I never saw the driver 'sans casque'


I've just had an e-mail from Howden Ganley informing me that neither Henri Pescarolo or Reine Wisell could make it to Bourne yesterday.

#107 john aston

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:16

Very annoyed could not make it- bloody back problems- is it on next year ? Would love to attend- great drive from N Yorks to Bourne. used to live in Lincs too and..my Caterham' s paint scheme is a BRM homage . as at least one TNFer - Giraffe -knows.. Looked a great day.

#108 Barry Boor

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:23

Not likely to happen again in the near future, I imagine.

#109 Alan Cox

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:42

Not likely to happen again in the near future, I imagine.

Last one was 13 years ago, so possibly in another 10 or 15 years...

#110 Giraffe

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:08

Last one was 13 years ago, so possibly in another 10 or 15 years...


If so, I doubt if there will be more than a couple of the guys who were actually involved at the time able to join in. Another thought is that if 'elf & saftey have moved on at a comparable pace to today, there will not be a cat in hells chance of it happening! There were any number of spectators who ignored the marshals and crossed the course, blissfully unaware of quite how fast even and old F1 racing car can descend on you! :eek:

#111 Jerry Entin

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:16

The photo that Tony has posted above is the the other car Howden drove and is Robs Lamplough's P180 - the actual car he raced at Monaco in 1982.


#112 Giraffe

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:22

Morning in the main paddock....

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Edited by Giraffe, 08 October 2012 - 17:26.


#113 kayemod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:41

Morning in the main paddock....


That's a very impressive turnout of cars.


#114 BRM MICK2

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:41

Doesnt get better than this !!


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Edited by BRM MICK2, 08 October 2012 - 18:18.


#115 arttidesco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:48

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Howden with his step daughter, and TNFer ErinKondratieff, in the paddock.

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Damon and Bette in a chauffeur driven Silver Ghost.



#116 arttidesco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:54

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Howden Ganley in the BRM
Howden had a great time at the event and loved seeing all the fans. This was the first BRM F-1 that Howden drove in 1971 it is chassis P 153-03. He later switched to chassis 06.


photo: Greg Mills


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Greg must have been standing almost next to me :lol:

I don't suppose he was wearing a Lowes Jimmie Johnson jacket ?

#117 Alan Cox

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:55

The day also saw the launch of a book by Dutch BRM fanatic, Hein de Groot, featuring his collection of ERA and BRM memorabilia. A slightly unusual publication by virtue of its content, it features photos of models, components, memorabilia and large numbers of books, magazines, brochures, videos etc together with listing of all titles of which Hein is aware. He also brought with him a large selection of fascinating items and photographs from his collection which were put on display at the Darby & Joan Hall. http://brmdaybourne....-in-bourne.html

PS It was great to attend an event where the local traders didn't foist inflationary prices on the captive audience - there were countless places where you could buy an excellent range of food and drink at everyday prices e.g. 50p for a tea or coffee, £2 for a well-filled bacon or sausage bap, £1.50 for great home-made soup. I hope they were all rewarded well for their enterprise, and that the local charities had a great boost to revenue.

#118 arttidesco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:01

PS It was great to attend an event where the local traders didn't foist inflationary prices on the captive audience - there were countless places where you could buy an excellent range of food and drink at everyday prices e.g. 50p for a tea or coffee, £2 for a well-filled bacon or sausage bap, £1.50 for great home-made soup. I hope they were all rewarded well for their enterprise, and that the local charities had a great boost to revenue.


:up:

The food was both reasonably priced and tasty be it bacon bap or home made apple pie :love:


#119 kayemod

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 18:34

Damon and Bette in a chauffeur driven Silver Ghost.


Quite a positive write-up of the event in today's Daily Mail, though almost inevitably they had Mrs Hill down as "Betty". When I have the time, I derive a modicum of guilty pleasure from perusing the reader comments that follow items on their website, and some of those after the Bourne BRM day article are at the same time amusing and tragic. Apparently Damon and Graham weren't the only father & son WDCs, the Villeneuves did it first. With a knowledge of motor racing history like that, they should be contributing to Racing Comments, though of course, maybe they already are.


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#120 ensign14

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 20:26

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#121 Barry Boor

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 20:33

I am a bit puzzled by the presence of some cars that appear to have very little to do with B.R.M.

#122 john winfield

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 20:50

I am a bit puzzled by the presence of some cars that appear to have very little to do with B.R.M.


Barry, one of the best features of a wonderful day, in addition to so many sumptuous BRMs, was the recreation of something like a 1962 Grand Prix grid. These had their own small paddock up the Spalding Road, together with some Pilbeams, natives of the town.

I saw Mike Pilbeam up in the Spalding Road paddock, Bob Dance too with the very smart Lotus team. Tony Southgate was in the main paddock, chatting with Howden Ganley and some others I half recognised. Raymond Mays' workshop was hidden by the beautiful transporters; the MG (transporter) recreation was impressive, the 1960s BRM and 1970s Tyrrell ones too, and I was surprised how compact the later Marlboro BRM vehicle was. I think it could carry three cars so perhaps they needed three of these at each race in 1972 for the nine car Bourne entry. Or was it twelve drivers per race, I forget...... :)

Anyway, it was a fantastic day, so much effort had been made by the organisers, the drivers, the teams, the Halls and the townspeople. And the sun shone all day. Bliss.

Edited by john winfield, 08 October 2012 - 21:21.


#123 john winfield

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:20

As Alan comments above, Hein de Groot's display of BRM memorabilia was very interesting. The Darby and Joan was the first place we came to, walking through the town park; tea, coffee, cake and hundreds of BRM items to pore over. Pour over?

I don't think BRM days like that, and the earlier one in 1999, are likely to happen again but who knows? Anyway, if anyone does pass through Bourne for the first time, Raymond Mays' house is still there, Pilbeam and Hall & Hall are around the corner, and try and visit on a day when the Baldock Mill museum (Bourne Heritage Centre) is open. The Raymond Mays room in this little museum was interesting enough on its own but, since David Owen donated many BRM trophies and pieces of memorabilia, it's a real treat. Pedro's 1970 Spa trophy is there, Graham's Watkins Glen 'tureens' and I noticed Jackie Stewart's 1965 International Trophy. V-16 music plays in the background and, among many good pictures, there's a nice one of Dick Salmon at Spa telling Graham Hill to F. Off - well that's what his pit board reads.

Edited by john winfield, 09 October 2012 - 14:36.


#124 Bill Harding

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:57

It was all fantastic and if you missed it I am afraid it is unlikely to be repeated.....
Rick Hall reckons that Wheatie was looking down on them to make sure they had good weather!!
If you were not there you cannot begin to imagine the atmosphere.
The whole Town was behind the event, it was rewarded with an incredible collection of cars and drivers and perfect weather!!!
It was of course all free........when did you last hear those words???



#125 jj2728

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:07

Great stuff, thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences, photos and vids.

#126 arttidesco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 22:41

I am a bit puzzled by the presence of some cars that appear to have very little to do with B.R.M.


There was also a run for pre 1962 vehicles that included a couple of Bristols, a couple of Allards, a three wheel Bond that looked like it was running with a jacked up front suspension, a couple of buses a wonderful Douglas Dragonfly, made in Bristol, a police car or two a couple of Wolseley's didn't see anyone with a twin window helmet driving either of those, a convertible Jenson 541 which must be quite rare some in period costume cyclists all in all enough to recreate an approximation of a 1962 era traffic jam in Bourne.

Then they sent round the transporters  ;)



#127 Doug Nye

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:05

Not least, thanks are due to all those private and institutional owners - from far and near - who brought their cars or provided them for what was plainly a most remarkable occasion...

DCN

#128 arttidesco

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 23:22

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Not yet had a chance to read BRM Vols 1 - 3 by the esteemed Mr Nye but I believe this is Bruce McCaw's P48/2, driven by Rob Hall, I don't no why but I find the bacon slicer brake particularly fascinating, did anyone ever have the misfortune of running in to the back of a car with this kind of brake set up ?

Edited by arttidesco, 08 October 2012 - 23:25.


#129 ensign14

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:39

The Raymond Mays room in this little museum was interesting enough on its own but, since David Owen donated many BRM trophies and pieces of memorabilia, it's a real treat. Pedro's 1970 Spa trophy is there, Graham's Watkins Glen 'tureens' and I noticed Jackie Stewart's 1965 International Trophy.

And you can have fun with the captions; one from 1960 is listed as being a trophy from the Spanish Grand Prix. Because it has Cordoba inscribed thereon...

#130 bradbury west

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:56

....a wonderful Douglas Dragonfly, made in Bristol, ....


Photos?
Roger Lund

#131 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:16

Photos?
Roger Lund


Watch this space :up:

#132 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:04

It was a super day...
I had the pleasure of being joined by Kingsleyrob and Roger Clark on the trip over from Cheshire, and I think Rob summed it up well by saying "The only way it could have been better was if they had paid me to go." Fine praise indeed.



Indeed it was a super day! Long to live in the memory of this TNFer.

On reflection I was a little flippant in my remark of how it could have been better. The sight of a couple of octagenarians in the parade, namely Messrs Hill and Rudd would have made the occasion complete.

Notwithstanding that, the town was alight with glowing memories, and the smiles from all the Hills were a delight to see. Who'd have thought on that grim day in November 1975 that this would happen - proud Mum, sisters and a WDC son celebrating in style with "Old Faithful"?

The five hour round trip in the company of Alan and Roger was entertaining too. I sat in the back and it was like having my own seach engine in the front seats as I quizzed them on the BRM numbering "system" (I'm still confused) and all manner of detail on the Stanleys. We counted up the drivers still living who stretched back to the front engined GP car era and came up with only a handful. Let's appreciate them while they are still with us.

I lost both Alan and Roger in the afternoon, as I unintentionally strode ahead while Roger took time choosing a cup cake at lunch time. So I was in a world of my own as I took up a vantage point almost opposite the grandstands - a great spot to witness JYS entertain us with some wheel spinning standing starts in the Tyrrell. During a short break in the proceedings I wandered towards the paddock and stumbled on Sir Jackie signing autographs. It seemed rude not to ask him to sign my programme, and I also took the opportunity to thank him for the entertainment. No scribbled signatures from Jackie, he took his time and was clearly enjoying himself. There were only a handful of us around him as he got into the Audi, and he thanked one of the prime movers in organising the day - Carol Corless - profusely, with a kiss on the cheek. As soon as he was in the car he powered the window down and gave a wave and a smile as he departed. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but to me he's the finest Darjeeling.

Moving around the streets I dropped Giraffe a text to ascertain his location. "By the Jubilee Garage Bar" came the reply. I leaned over the rope barrier to enquire of a marshal the location of said bar and he pointed directly behind me! So, together with Tony and RS250 Ian I enjoyed the V16 finale with pint in hand, sunshine overhead, and the sight and sounds of the monsters powering through the narrow street bringing smiles to everyone's faces.

A look around the exhibition at the Darby and Joan club completed the day before a bus ride back to the well organised Park and Ride.

Congratulation and thanks to all involved - I wonder if someone is in a position to alert the organisers to this thread as a measure of our appreciation.

Rob :wave:

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 09 October 2012 - 09:11.


#133 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:10

During the morning demonstrations we were watching on the Abbey Road / Spalding Road side of the town. Standing opposite the exit from the Corn Exchange paddock, we could appreciate the discipline required by the organisers and marshals to release one batch of vehicles east towards the bus garage hairpin, and feed those already out in the town back into the paddock before the 'bus garage' lot swept back past and off west into the central streets. No easy feat, given the occasional breakdown and minor delay. Well done guys!
Neville Hay's commentary box was just behind us - I thought he entertained us well during the day - and, again, it was interesting watching him work in tandem with his colleague on the track, who was assisted by an 'event co-ordinator' providing quick briefings off-air on interviewees, guests, timetabling etc. I thought the track based commentator/interviewer was very good. American? Wearing an Alfa body warmer. Does anyone know who that was?

As Arti mentions, the pre-1962 vehicle parade was fun - the police car bell sounded just right. And, after the transporters I think, some very welcome and popular guests were interviewed on track before being driven around the parade route: Damon Hill and mother Bette in a Rolls with David Owen, sisters Brigitte and Samantha in a Bentley? with Howden Ganley. And was that Brigitte's fair haired daughter with them? Nice to see and hear Tony Rudd's daughters too.

Edited by john winfield, 09 October 2012 - 09:12.


#134 Alan Cox

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:11

There was also a run for pre 1962 vehicles that included a couple of Bristols, a couple of Allards, a three wheel Bond that looked like it was running with a jacked up front suspension, a couple of buses a wonderful Douglas Dragonfly, made in Bristol, a police car or two a couple of Wolseley's didn't see anyone with a twin window helmet driving either of those, a convertible Jenson 541 which must be quite rare some in period costume cyclists all in all enough to recreate an approximation of a 1962 era traffic jam in Bourne.

Then they sent round the transporters

It was particularly nice that they it wasn't just a parade in one direction - they travelled down both sides of the road so we had oncoming traffic resembling a 1962 High Street.
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The one man without whom the event would have remained a dream - Rick Hall, with John Sismey, former BRM mechanic and engineer, from the successful 1962 team.
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Howden Ganley, and the BRM P180 with its unusual screen cutout for the steering wheel
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Proudly displaying his Old Harrovian colours on his helmet, Richard Attwood.

#135 Alan Cox

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:14

I thought the track based commentator/interviewer was very good. American? Wearing an Alfa body warmer. Does anyone know who that was?

Ed McDonough

#136 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:22

Ed McDonough


So that's Ed McDonough! Thanks Alan.
That's a good picture of Rick Hall and John Sismey. I thought John looked a little worried early on (was he on the committee?) but he was beaming in the paddock later. I thanked him for all the effort made and said I was looking forward to the '50 years since BRM's last GP win' day in 2022. He chuckled but wasn't confident of lasting that long. More chance than me, probably; he looked in fine fettle.


#137 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:25

Neville Hay's commentary box was just behind us - I thought he entertained us well during the day - and, again, it was interesting watching him work in tandem with his colleague on the track, who was assisted by an 'event co-ordinator' providing quick briefings off-air on interviewees, guests, timetabling etc. I thought the track based commentator/interviewer was very good. American? Wearing an Alfa body warmer. Does anyone know who that was? .



You must have been within yards of me in the morning John - I too noticed all the organisation as the cars came and went, and like you had a view of the interviewer - Ed McDonough - as Alan says. I missed a little of what his interviewees said at times, but he clearly has a passion for the past http://www.velocetod...e/people_19.php

As fuzzi (Julian) said in his earlier post, his TNF badge enabled identification as "one of us". His wife was very busy with her camera - unfortunately our views obscured at times by someone in front of us using a huge iPad as a camera.

Rob :wave:

#138 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:26

Ought not to be allowed!


#139 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:49

unfortunately our views obscured at times by someone in front of us using a huge iPad as a camera.

Rob :wave:


Oh, sorry about my iPad Rob. You should have said something.

No, not really. I tried to use our family's little digital thing, holding it up in the air, shooting and hoping. I now have an interesting selection of the back of people's heads, other people's cameras and phones, Alec Day the Butchers, and Howden Ganley's knees. When I get organised I'll try and post one or two recognisable efforts. How could I blur the Hill sisters as they swept past me at 15mph? The resulting coloured swirl looks like an early Rainer Schlegelmilch creative effort.....gone very wrong.

Edited by john winfield, 09 October 2012 - 09:50.


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#140 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:08

The five hour round trip in the company of Alan and Roger was entertaining too. I sat in the back and it was like having my own seach engine in the front seats as I quizzed them on the BRM numbering "system" (I'm still confused).


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Since you have obviously been the beneficiary of some expert knowledge ( :up:) here is one I don't understand, the first car was the P15 Mark I, but what is the correct name of the SWB Mark II ?

Options I have seen include P 15 Mark II, P 18 Mark II, in the programe, and P 30 Mark II :confused:

Answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

Edited by arttidesco, 09 October 2012 - 10:49.


#141 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:09

Oh, sorry about my iPad Rob. You should have said something. No, not really. I tried to use our family's little digital thing, holding it up in the air, shooting and hoping. I now have an interesting selection of the back of people's heads, other people's cameras and phones, Alec Day the Butchers, and Howden Ganley's knees. When I get organised I'll try and post one or two recognisable efforts. How could I blur the Hill sisters as they swept past me at 15mph? The resulting coloured swirl looks like an early Rainer Schlegelmilch creative effort.....gone very wrong.


:lol: :lol: You had me worried there at first John...

I find it's a bit of a dilemma - deciding to relax and take in the sights and sounds and commit them to the memory banks, or faff around with camera and iphone (handy for video) and hope for the best. I'm truly thankful to those of us who take time with subject and composition and then mess around with imageshack and post on here for our benefit. Well done chaps.

I too have a selection of the back of people's heads - quite possibly we have the same ones John. I have a nice one of Damon's excellent head of hair. I do intend to grapple with imageshack, though it's been so long since I had a fiddle. Something always seems to floor me. I have perhaps one or two I'm not embarrassed to share.

Quite simply it was one of the best motor sport days I've ever had. Coming only a few weeks after shaking Dan's hand at the Revival it goes to prove that you're never too old to feel like a ten year old. (Er, just realised that might sound a bit risque to UK readers, especially as I'm a DJ... no double entendre intended).

Barry, supplier of the very useful TNF badges, you should have left Malta for the occasion. Even the weather was comparable I'm sure.

Rob :wave:

#142 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:16

I find it's a bit of a dilemma - deciding to relax and take in the sights and sounds and commit them to the memory banks, or faff around with camera and iphone (handy for video) and hope for the best. I'm truly thankful to those of us who take time with subject and composition and then mess around with imageshack and post on here for our benefit.


I see quite a lot of TNFers have been having image shack problems of late, last year I gave up on it and moved to Post Image, it's a lot less faf much reduced advertising, and no random blocking of images uploaded goes on. Usual disclaimers apply.

#143 kayemod

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:19

...though it's been so long since I had a fiddle. Something always seems to floor me. I have perhaps one or two I'm not embarrassed to share.

...it goes to prove that you're never too old to feel like a ten year old. (Er, just realised that might sound a bit risque to UK readers, especially as I'm a DJ... no double entendre intended).


A ten year old would be less clumsy at posting than I sometimes am, but evidence from TNF may be taken down and later used against you.

Edited by kayemod, 09 October 2012 - 10:22.


#144 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:21

Options I have seen include P 15 Mark II, P 18 Mark II, in the programe, and P 30 Mark II :confused:

Answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.


Our in-car discussion on type numbers was from P25 onwards I recall - In my own simple way I just stick with "V16" for those beasts arti, but I know you'll get some erudite responses from our fellow TNFers.

It was great to see both in action in the afternoon sessions after only one making it out in ther morning. Same for the two P25s too.

Rob :wave:

#145 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:53

Our in-car discussion on type numbers was from P25 onwards I recall - In my own simple way I just stick with "V16" for those beasts arti, but I know you'll get some erudite responses from our fellow TNFers.

It was great to see both in action in the afternoon sessions after only one making it out in the morning. Same for the two P25s too.

Rob :wave:


Thanks Rob :up:

If anyone else knows the answer to the Mark II riddle ?

How about this one Rob, did the P 126 really follow the P 261 in the middle of the swinging sixties ?

If so any idea what the logic was ?

#146 Giraffe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:01

Oh, sorry about my iPad Rob. You should have said something.

. I tried to use our family's little digital thing, holding it up in the air, shooting and hoping. I now have an interesting selection of the back of people's heads, other people's cameras and phones.


So it was you, John?!?! :mad:

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#147 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:18

There's one sad little story which doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far:

BRP-BRM chassis 2-64:
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... and the reason it didn't take part in the parade:
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#148 arttidesco

arttidesco
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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:26

Photos?
Roger Lund


Some of the pre 1962 era traffic :-

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Douglas Dragonfly

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1958 MG ZB

and a couple of Twinney

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1958 Wolseley 15/50

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1954 Wolseley 6/80

#149 arttidesco

arttidesco
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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:29

There's one sad little story which doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far:

BRP-BRM chassis 2-64:

... and the reason it didn't take part in the parade:


:up:

One drive shaft short of a racing car  ;)


#150 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:33

Re BRM type numbers: I'm sticking my head above the parapet expecting to get shot down, but this is my understanding:

'P15' and 'P25' are incorrect. The correct designations are Type 15 (15 indicating 1.5 litres) and Type 25 (25 indicating 2.5 litres). In BRM Vol 1 Sir Douglas usually refers to 'V16 Mark I' and 'V16 Mark II'. The Mark II 'sprint car ' was Project 30 so presumably 'P30' is correct.

The Type 25 chassis was P27 and the engine P25.

The P261 is the generally accepted shorthand for 'P61 Mk 2'.

Over to the experts ...

Edited by Tim Murray, 09 October 2012 - 13:01.