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'BRM Day' October 2012 (merged)


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#151 Jerry Entin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:35

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Greg Mills and Howden Ganley
Greg Mills is the author of many great books - including those on Tony Maggs , John Love , Sam Tingle.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 09 October 2012 - 11:39.


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#152 Kingsleyrob

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:43

Thanks for the clarification Tim. :up:

Here's one for our genial genealogists...

I noted Damon's sister Brigitte billed as Hill-Haas on her parade Roller.

I've Coxed, Clarked, and Googled, but can find no stated connection to the Carl Haas dynasty of husband Anthony.

Surely there haas to be?

Rob :wave:

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 09 October 2012 - 11:43.


#153 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:54

Re BRM type numbers: I'm sticking my head above the parapet expecting to get shot down, but this is my understanding:

'P15' and 'P25' are incorrect. The correct designations are Type 15 (15 indicating 1.5 litres) and Type 25 (25 indicating 2.5 litres). In BRM Vol 1 Sir Douglas usually refers to 'V16 Mark I' and V16 Mark II'. The Mark II 'sprint car ' was Project 30 so presumably 'P30' is correct.

The Type 25 chassis was P27 and the engine P25.

The P261 is the generally accepted shorthand for 'P61 Mk 2'.

Over to the experts ...


Thanks Tim :up:

So what was 126 short hand for ?

#154 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:01

'Greg Mills is the author of many great books - including those on Tony Maggs , John Love , Sam Tingle.'


Jerry, I noticed that David Owen had bought a copy of the Tony Maggs book. Well he had one tucked under his arm!


The John Pearson / ex_Bonnier P25 needing some help earlier in the day:

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#155 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:09

The leaders scream down to Delaines on the first lap, braking from around 140mph for the second gear hairpin.....:

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..followed by the midfield pack.....


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Edited by john winfield, 09 October 2012 - 12:10.


#156 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:16

So what was 126 short hand for ?

Nothing :p It followed on from P115, the last of the H16s. The three P126 chassis were built for BRM by Len Terry's Transatlantic Automotive Consultants. When BRM built their own versions they were designated P133, and these were followed in BRM's F1 hierarchy by the P138 and P139.

#157 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:32

Jackie Stewart signing autographs behind the Corn Exchange, Press Officer Carol Corliss alongside:

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When Jackie had left in the Audi I heard Carol say he had been great to work with, pleasant and helpful all day.

#158 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:52

Nothing :p It followed on from P115, the last of the H16s. The three P126 chassis were built for BRM by Len Terry's Transatlantic Automotive Consultants. When BRM built their own versions they were designated P133, and these were followed in BRM's F1 hierarchy by the P138 and P139.


Ta Tim :drunk:

#159 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:59

The leaders scream down to Delaines on the first lap, braking from around 140mph for the second gear hairpin.....:


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Earlier in the day the one of the P 153's missed one of the P 160's only by virtue of the fact neither was on the racing line :cat:

Edited by arttidesco, 09 October 2012 - 13:00.


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#160 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:14

The leaders scream down to Delaines on the first lap, braking from around 140mph for the second gear hairpin.....:

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... missing 'pole man' Damon Hill, who'd gone AWOL. He joined in on the second lap.

#161 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 13:15

Howden Ganley chats with Tony Southgate (and wife Sue?).

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#162 Giraffe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:15

Howden Ganley chats with Tony Southgate (and wife Sue?).



Correct! :up:

#163 Jerry Entin

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 17:19

This is what Howden thought when he saw the BRM P 160 coming toward him.

" I was a bit surprised to find that P160 coming toward me . Note the picture of us passing !
Apparently he was released onto the road by ' mistake ' !! We both managed to swerve in time !!!


#164 Caddywell

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:06

I didn't think the 1999 event could have been improved on. But it was - in spades ! I was stood amongst a group of Bourne locals who didn't really know much about racing but thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated seeing a bit about their town's history brought to life - I'm sure that gained the sport some new fans.

The sounds, smells and vibrations running up through your feet (especially with the stack exhaust pipe car) were unforgettable.

Any chance of a 60th bash ?

Did anyone have problems getting out of Raymond Mays Way Park & Ride - it was a wee bit slippery when I left ?

#165 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:41

This is what Howden thought when he saw the BRM P 160 coming toward him.

" I was a bit surprised to find that P160 coming toward me . Note the picture of us passing !
Apparently he was released onto the road by ' mistake ' !! We both managed to swerve in time !!!


Certainly made my heart miss a beat or three :eek:

#166 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:45

The sounds, smells and vibrations running up through your feet (especially with the stack exhaust pipe car) were unforgettable.

:up:

Any chance of a 60th bash ?

:up:

Did anyone have problems getting out of Raymond Mays Way Park & Ride - it was a wee bit slippery when I left ?


I was a bit dubious when we were ushered into the car park and the digger was spreading sand along the entrance, fortunately the weather appears to have played into the hands of the organisers after a night of heavy rain.

#167 Giraffe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:38

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#168 arttidesco

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:06

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Frank Zappa once made the observation that just because your in a minority of one does not necessarily mean you are wrong, I notice that respected TNFer Wouter Melissen refers to Julian Pearson's car as a Type 25 does anybody out there agree with him or is it really a P25 ?

Authoritative references would be appreciated since this is a case of one mans voice against the rest of the internet and all the information available from Bourne on the day :drunk:

Answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

EDIT IGNORE THIS QUESTION TIM HAS ALREADY ANSWERED IT IN A PREVIOUS POST !

Edited by arttidesco, 09 October 2012 - 20:09.


#169 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:11

The Scirocco-BRM

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and a Tasman Lotus

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#170 Giraffe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:27

The Scirocco-BRM


...& in action....

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....I just loved the involvement of the crowd on Sunday, which made the event quite unique with more atmosphere than at the Goodwood FOS :clap:

Edited by Giraffe, 09 October 2012 - 20:29.


#171 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:34

EDIT IGNORE THIS QUESTION TIM HAS ALREADY ANSWERED IT IN A PREVIOUS POST !

Thanks Ralph, but in case anyone still has doubts, here's what Doug has posted here on the subject in the past:

Dave - I think I told you that story about the Dutch GP winning car - like, between ourselves, mate...

I don't think the story really stood up to scrutiny when I double-checked it. But a good mischievous mechanic's story nonetheless, one of millions...

Even if the car's identity had been in REAL doubt - and it was certainly '258' in my mind* - there is no doubt that Spencer's car was the sole BRM-built genuine survivor of the type - as (I fear) the magnesium fire at Phillip Island has so sickeningly confirmed.

And I emphasise it should be 'Type 25' NOT 'P'25 as has become normal useage...and as I have written myself before I learned the error of my ways...for which, again, I apologise to all.

Karl - whose serious work I so hugely admire, having prefaced my very first letter to him long ago with the words "if a cat can look at a King...", which I really meant - deserves the credit for pointing out to us all, way back when, that 'W163' was a misnomer for the 'W154' Mercedes-Benz fitted with 'M163' engine under the marque's 1939 bodyform.

Well in my minor way I'm preaching Type 25 instead of P25 where BRMs are concerned.

This is because BRM Project 25 was, strictly speaking, the basic 2 1/2-litre 4-cyl engine project.

The 2 1/2-litre chassis as originated in 1954-55 was the Project 27.

The first five cars built used semi-monocoque stressed-skin panelled centre sections. They were nicknamed 'The Over-Stressed Skin Specials' by the team. They were then replaced by an evolutionary multi-tubular chassis structure with all-detachable body panels - apart from the spoon-shaped semi-stressed undertray - which retained the Project 27 internal classification, though v. different from the original design under that number.

The cars - assembled from P25 engine and P27 chassis frame - should properly be referred to as the 'Type 25'.

In period, they were known by most people as neither P25, nor P27, nor PS, PT, PTFE nor Type anything...they were just 'the BRM' or 'the 4-cylinder BRM' or 'the 2 1/2-litre BRM'.

Fans like us just didn't develop anoraksia nervosa over type numbers then.

I think I was one of the very first ever to quote 'BT' Brabham type designations in print, in an F2 review in 'Motor Racing' magazine, I think in 1964. Until that time Lotus digital model numbers or '250F' were about the only ones that were at all familiar...check the magazine record to see... Coopers tended to be described as 'Lowline' or '1959-type'....the internal model classifications T43, T51, T53, T53P were first exposed, publicised and then adopted by 'us' years after the cars were current.

*I first saw '258' on display in the Montagu Motor Museum at Beaulieu around 1960-61, with a perspex engine cover permitting sight of the works beneath. When I examined it thoroughly prior to its sale by Christie's in 1981 the only chassis identity was '27/3' lightly stamped low down into one frame tube in the cockpit. Think about it - new Type 27 multi-tubular spaceframe chassis number '3'. '251' to '255' had been stressed-skin cars, so '256', '257' and '258' were the first, second and third tube-frame versions...i.e. '27/3'. Magnesium alloy - elektron - body. Lovely jubbly... but not, I fear, any more...

I hope this clarifies some of these matters.

DCN

And...of course...termination of employment was marked by a P45...

BUT the P25 was the 4-cylinder 2 1/2-litre engine project - the chassis propelled by that engine were built under the P27 heading - BUT the combination complete car was the BRM TYPE 25...as previously explained here. :)

DCN

Sorry fellers - I was one of the first to start using the 'P25' designation but I was also the first to appreicate I'd cocked it up. The chassis design was allocated P27, the engine only was P25. The overall car combination of P25 engine and P27 chassis then became the 'Type 25' 2.5-litre Fomrula 1 car.

Pedantry lives.

NCD

One of these quotes comes from this thread, which may be of interest:

BRM type numbers

#172 john winfield

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:53

Way back in the very first post of this thread, Ralf gave us the link to the 'BRM Day' website. The website's 'Gallery' section is now filling up with lots of interesting (uncaptioned) photos, and there is a facility for anyone who wishes to contribute some of their own.

http://www.brmday.co.uk/index.html

#173 RaymondMays

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:07

My home video of Sunday's events. It's a bit shaky, but I think you'll enjoy the soundtrack!



I did manage to capture a bit of a "moment" in North Street, when a P153 met a P160 (I think) travelling in the opposite direction, outside Smith's (named after my family's grocery business).

What a great day - congratulations to all involved in the organisation and running of the event.

#174 Rob Miller

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:10

Will it remain one of life's little mysteries why a Cooper-Bristol was in the 1962'ish parade?

#175 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:24

I love the young voice about 1 minute 25 seconds into Raymond's video saying "Why are we here?" :rotfl:

#176 doc knutsen

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:37

My home video of Sunday's events. It's a bit shaky, but I think you'll enjoy the soundtrack!



I did manage to capture a bit of a "moment" in North Street, when a P153 met a P160 (I think) travelling in the opposite direction, outside Smith's (named after my family's grocery business).

What a great day - congratulations to all involved in the organisation and running of the event.


How absolutely wonderful! Many, many thanks.
I was a youthful ORMA member in 1963, remaining until my hero NGH broke ranks to join the arch enemy at Cheshunt. I would have absolutely loved to be there last week-end.
Thanks again.


#177 jj2728

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:32

My home video of Sunday's events. It's a bit shaky, but I think you'll enjoy the soundtrack!



I did manage to capture a bit of a "moment" in North Street, when a P153 met a P160 (I think) travelling in the opposite direction, outside Smith's (named after my family's grocery business).

What a great day - congratulations to all involved in the organisation and running of the event.


Superb!

#178 arttidesco

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:20

Thanks for the clarification Tim. :up:

Here's one for our genial genealogists...

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I noted Damon's sister Brigitte billed as Hill-Haas

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on her parade Roller.

Rob :wave:


It was a 1927 4 1/2 litre Bentley, hope that helps with the genealogy Rob  ;)



#179 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:52

I noted Damon's sister Brigitte billed as Hill-Haas on her parade Roller.

I've Coxed, Clarked, and Googled, but can find no stated connection to the Carl Haas dynasty of husband Anthony.

Surely there haas to be?

Rob :wave:

It would be nice if we could nail this one. The IMDB bio of Anthony Haas shows that he's done most of his TV and film work in this country (indicating possible Britishness?) :

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1230477/bio

but then again he and Brigitte at one stage managed the European racing career of Derek (son of Phil) Hill:

http://en.wikipedia....(racing_driver)

Edited by Tim Murray, 11 October 2012 - 12:53.


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#180 Jerry Entin

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:26

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Howden Ganley enjoying having a word with Jackie Stewart
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Howden and Jackie enjoying the BRM event


Tim: Carl and Bernie Haas, have no children.


photos: Erin Pritchett

Edited by Jerry Entin, 13 October 2012 - 14:52.


#181 Jerry Entin

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:40

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Tim Parnell and Tony Southgate and Howden Ganley
Here is a trip down memory lane. From 1971 - the same guys at Bourne last Saturday.
Same team manager ( Tim Parnell ) same designer ( Tony Southgate ) same driver ( Howden Ganley ) same car ( BRM P153 -03 )

Just 41 years on ... !!!


photo: Erin Pritchett

Edited by Jerry Entin, 13 October 2012 - 14:42.


#182 john winfield

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 19:48

Posted Image
Tim Parnell and Tony Southgate and Howden Ganley
Here is a trip down memory lane. From 1971 - the same guys at Bourne last Saturday.
Same team manager ( Tim Parnell ) same designer ( Tony Southgate ) same driver ( Howden Ganley ) same car ( BRM P153 -03 )

Just 41 years on ... !!!


photo: Erin Pritchett


Good photos Jerry / Erin of a welcome reunion! Nice to see Tim Parnell. Was he able to take part in the parade? Perhaps we missed him, although at least we have a good shot of him from 1999, with the rest of the guys. Roll on 2022 - 60 years since the Championship, 50 years since the last GP win!


#183 Tim Murray

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 19:56

Tim: Carl and Bernie Haas, have no children.

Thanks Jerry :up:

#184 arttidesco

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:42

More BRM Day pics here.

and

Another vid of just the ERA and BRM's in action here.

#185 AJB

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:26

As a long time BRM supporter, may I thank everyone for posting their photos of this event; especially the ones that show the correct shade of green. Many colour photos in the 60s showed the green as dark blue (or even taupe :rolleyes: ).
Alan

#186 BRM MICK2

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:46

Some more of mine

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Forza BRM :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:




#187 ErinKondratieff

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 22:27

Jerry Entin was kind enough to post some of my pictures from this fabulous event, and here are a few more pictures from the day.

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#188 john winfield

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 23:12

Jerry Entin was kind enough to post some of my pictures from this fabulous event, and here are a few more pictures from the day.



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Good shots Erin. It was a great day wasn't it?
I'm sure I should have known who this driver was but I didn't recognise her. Can you help?
John


#189 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 23:26

So, Howden is a NatWest user then.

#190 ErinKondratieff

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:55

So, Howden is a NatWest user then.


LOL! No, he just uses their parking spaces for his race cars...


#191 ErinKondratieff

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:01

Good shots Erin. It was a great day wasn't it?
I'm sure I should have known who this driver was but I didn't recognise her. Can you help?
John


Thanks John! This is the lovely and very interesting Julia Baldanza and she is an owner/driver.


#192 arttidesco

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:02

Thanks for sharing your photo's Erin, it was a pleasure to meet you and Howden very briefly on the day :up:

#193 john winfield

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:09

Thanks John! This is the lovely and very interesting Julia Baldanza and she is an owner/driver.


Thank you Erin.
I thought she was lovely as well, but was too shy to say......although I now see that two TNF stalwarts have admired her for many years!


Originally posted by David McKinney in response to a enquiry from Cirrus Aug 2004

'Petite attractive Julia de Baldanza races a Bugatti 35B and an A6GCM Maserati in England, if that's any help'


#194 cooper997

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:43

It's now just over 12 months since Bourne hosted their BRM celebrations. The other week I was googling BRM and the BRMDay website came up. They had a DVD and programme from the day available at £10 & £5 respectively. So I had one of each sent out to Oz.

 

They arrived this week and are nice items for those who either weren't able to make it or those who were and wouldn't mind a copy anyway. The DVD goes for nearly 1 hour and covers various facets of making the event happen, period footage from 1962 and the goings on from the event with interviews with Damon Hill, Sir Jackie Stewart, Howden Ganley, Rick Hall, etc.

 

To procure, you'll need to go to www.brmassociation.org though. Although the old brmday.co.uk address will redirect you.

 

Stephen



#195 arttidesco

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 23:16


The programme says that Henri Pescarolo was to drive John Fenning's P201, can anyone confirm if it actually was Pesca in the green helmet???

290z.jpg

 

 

 

# 27 : 153-003


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Copyright Luc Ghys

 

 

Rob
John Fenning drove P153 #27
Max

 

Looks like John Fenning most likely was driving his #15 BRM P201/5 at Bourne on BRM Day as per programme, but much googling under BRM, BRM Day, BRM P201 and McCaw has not helped me to establish who was, TBA per programme, driving the car listed as Bruce McCaw P201/1

 

[url=http://postimage.org/]03_IMG_3581sc.jpg

 

does anyone recognise this driver ?

 

Can anyone confirm if the #14 P201 above is the same car referred to as BRM P201/1-R at OldRacingCars.com ?



#196 D-Type

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 23:28

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I hadn't realised just how low-built the V16 is!