11 replies to this topic

[JtP1]

I was watching this video clip of film from the International Trophy at Silverstone in 62, http://www.eafa.org....atalogue/213053.

In it shown a Mercedes M163 being demonstrated. Who owned the car, was it the one which ended up at Indianapolis or a Mercedes factory demonstration and why did they pick that meeting for the demo?

Edited by JtP1, 27 February 2012 - 14:56.

[arttidesco]

Server not found

[JtP1]

For some reason the copied link doesn't work. Will work on it. Just went into the general eafa site and there is some good historic racing in it. Excellent coverage of the 62 Lombank Trophy. Haven't looked at Lotus at the 78 British GP yet, but it is 16 mins long.

[Tim Murray]

I don't know why that link doesn't work - it appears identical to this one:

http://www.eafa.org....atalogue/213053

which works for me, anyway (fingers crossed)

It's a W154 Mercedes with the M163 engine.

[Rob]

In it shown a Mercedes M163 being demonstrated. Who owned the car, was it the one which ended up at Indianapolis or a Mercedes factory demonstration and why did they pick that meeting for the demo?

The W154 that ended up at Indianapolis was butchered so I very much doubt it's that one. Its bonnet was cut and distorted in order to fit all manner of strange engines in there. At its last appearance at Indianapolis it was entered as a Mercedes-Jaguar.

[d j fox]

I was crowd marshal at this race and well remember standing out in the pouring rain most of that day. Reg Parnell demonstrated the 1939 V12 car which was from the Daimler-Benz museum. In the appalling conditions as soon as he hit the accelerator the car would instantly wheel spin so he did a very few slowish laps as the film shows.
Also of note in the film is Innes Ireland in the “UDT Laystall” Ferrari in the F1 race—this allegedly was to have been the car that Moss would have driven if not for his Goodwood crash.

David

[Vitesse2]

According to a brief note in the Motor Sport report, the car was one of the MB Museum examples and was driven by Reg Parnell.

Given that this was the race in which Innes Ireland drove a UDT-Laystall-entered Ferrari 156, perhaps one might speculate that the original intended pilot of the W154 was one SC Moss?

[JtP1]

Have fixed link. Have followed the theories on the M154/163 indentities. They all seem to start as M154 chassis in 38, but are fitted with the M163 engine and body work in 39. Clutton,Posthumus and Jenkinson from my reading of it describe it as a M163.

[Alan Cox]

http://mydadsphotos....962/bw_c007_36/
http://mydadsphotos....962/bw_c008_25/
http://mydadsphotos....962/bw_c008_27/
http://mydadsphotos....962/bw_c008_28/
There are more great photos from the meeting on this site
http://mydadsphotos....al-trophy-1962/
http://mydadsphotos....962/bw_c010_14/

[D-Type]

Have fixed link. Have followed the theories on the M154/163 indentities. They all seem to start as M154 chassis in 38, but are fitted with the M163 engine and body work in 39. Clutton,Posthumus and Jenkinson from my reading of it describe it as a M163.

Yes, I believe it was Posthumus who made the initial mistake in period, which everybody else followed

It has since been established that the chassis are all W154, the engine in 1938 was M154 and in 1939 it was M163. In 1939 both engines were used. This error has been corrected frequently by later writers but the incorrect W25 > W125> W154> W163> W 165 sequence persists

[Roger Clark]

THe car was probably W154/12 which was raced only once pre-war, by Seaman at the 1938 Italian Grand Prix, and by LAng in the 1951 Argentine campaign. I think it had an M163 engine but I'm not sure.

I don't think that Cyril Posthumus was first to use the W163 designation. Pomeroy used it in the Grand Prix car and Cameron Earl referred to the M163 car in his post-war report. THere was a thread in which we tried to determine the originator of the term, but I don't think we reached a firm conclusion.

[D-Type]

THe car was probably W154/12 which was raced only once pre-war, by Seaman at the 1938 Italian Grand Prix, and by LAng in the 1951 Argentine campaign. I think it had an M163 engine but I'm not sure.

I don't think that Cyril Posthumus was first to use the W163 designation. Pomeroy used it in the Grand Prix car and Cameron Earl referred to the M163 car in his post-war report. THere was a thread in which we tried to determine the originator of the term, but I don't think we reached a firm conclusion.

Sorry, I meant Pomeroy. My apologies to Cyril Posthumus.