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Ecclestone threatens to dump Australlia unless the race run at night


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#51 August

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:08

Hopefully by the time negotiations need to take place, Bernie is long gone and we have someone more sane in his place.


I'm afraid we'll have one with even less interest in F1 and even more interest in mon€y. All traditions are abandoned to get CVC's debts paid. I really hope F1 will get a rival series.

Anyway, some people argue here a night race is too late. Well, the Australian Open final ended at 2 am. OK, the noise could be a problem, but a start time of 9 pm doesn't look bad. That'd be 9 am UK time, and the race would end at 11 pm Oz time. As a European fan, I'd prefer the night race, but after all, it's quite the same as long as the Oz GP remains in calendar. Of course, lighting systems cost, so night race doesn't make sense unless it's necessary. And, of course there's the question whether having a race makes sense at all. I hope Australia do all they can to secure the race's future.

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#52 TheBunk

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:20

I thought this was a world championship? Or is it a show thats called world championship but needs to be shown at 1PM CET? I like getting up early for some races. That gives me the idea it is a world championship. And it was bad enough they stole Adelaide away, and movd it to the relatively unchallenging Melbourne park, whe Australia has lots of other interesting tracks, but now also need to hold in in the evening, with those hideous lightings where you never see the crowds and all cars look like they race in a video clip?

Bernie just stop. Quit. Do something with your daughters. Judging from those reality tv shows, they need your attention badly.

#53 FPV GTHO

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:24

Here's a better idea. Start the GP at 8am local time and then Bernie can watch it at home at 10pm and sleep in on Sunday.

#54 Ellios

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:57

"We have a contract which we will respect - so up until 2015 we are in good shape. After then, we really don't know.

"If we were to have a divorce from our friends in Melbourne we would probably be walking away from Australia. Because I can't see how Adelaide could make it happen, or anywhere else, if Melbourne can't. The race itself, from our point of view, is probably the least viable of all the races we have."
"We have other races ready to take the place of Australia - which we don't want to happen," he said. "But it would be wrong of me to have to report to our board, 'Terribly sorry about this but we have to walk away from wherever to retain Australia'."


2015 is when the contract runs out - but you'd better sort it out before then or you are out

FOM is happy to walk away from Australia altogether - threat, not fact

If Adelaide wants the race they better start paying the piper

The race doesn't mean that much anyway.... read opposite

we can go to other countries that have dictatorships and would be hard sell, but would rather that than not get what I want out of Australia

#55 ArnageWRC

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:38

I thought this was a world championship? Or is it a show thats called world championship but needs to be shown at 1PM CET? I like getting up early for some races. That gives me the idea it is a world championship. And it was bad enough they stole Adelaide away, and movd it to the relatively unchallenging Melbourne park, whe Australia has lots of other interesting tracks, but now also need to hold in in the evening, with those hideous lightings where you never see the crowds and all cars look like they race in a video clip?

Bernie just stop. Quit. Do something with your daughters. Judging from those reality tv shows, they need your attention badly.


Would have to agree.
I always enjoyed getting up at silly o’clock to watch the Australian GP.......
However, if the race is losing too much money – then why should the organisers pay the extortionate prices to simply hold a GP? Tell him were to stick it.....
Anyway, I’m not convinced that night races work for F1. Le Mans, WRC, Nascar yes, but not really F1.


#56 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:55

IMHO night race is a nightmire. A hate F1 races at night.

#57 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:01

I thought this was a global sport? Why does everything have to be geared toward UK time? It's one of the few damn races that are not on at 4am my time.

Actually, it's geared to Central European Time: any GP which starts at 4am for you is on at 1pm in the UK - not very family-friendly regarding Sunday lunch. Italians, Germans and the rest can finish lunch and sit down to watch it with a cup of coffee.

Bernie probably won't even be alive by 2015...

Didn't you know? He met the Devil at the crossroads ...

#58 Jovanotti

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:07

The guy has to go, the one way or the other :down:

#59 karne

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:10

Anyway, some people argue here a night race is too late. Well, the Australian Open final ended at 2 am. OK, the noise could be a problem, but a start time of 9 pm doesn't look bad. That'd be 9 am UK time, and the race would end at 11 pm Oz time.


What, are you TRYING to kill the Australian GP?

The Australian Open can go to 2am because it's in the business district. It's also not especially noisy.

Albert Park is smack bang in the middle of suburbia! Having noisy cars and noisy spectators going all around Albert Park - under bright lights covering the whole park - at 11pm on a school/work night?! SUICIDE.

Oh, but I suppose you wouldn't care, because it would mean that we could avoid a pesky once-a-year inconvenience to the precious UK/European viewers...

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#60 Racer Joe

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:14

Anyway, some people argue here a night race is too late. Well, the Australian Open final ended at 2 am. OK, the noise could be a problem, but a start time of 9 pm doesn't look bad. That'd be 9 am UK time, and the race would end at 11 pm Oz time. As a European fan, I'd prefer the night race, but after all, it's quite the same as long as the Oz GP remains in calendar. Of course, lighting systems cost, so night race doesn't make sense unless it's necessary. And, of course there's the question whether having a race makes sense at all. I hope Australia do all they can to secure the race's future.


I don't think a 9pm start time will work at Albert Park. The park where the track is at is skirted by residences. A race with cars that loud going until 11pm on a Sunday night is not going to be acceptable.

I will be amazed if the race organisers/State Government will ever acquiesce to a night race.

It has been great having the grand prix, but not at any price.


#61 Sakae

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:27

The guy has to go, the one way or the other :down:



This was first response on my mind; enough is enough.

#62 krapmeister

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:38

I don't think a 9pm start time will work at Albert Park. The park where the track is at is skirted by residences. A race with cars that loud going until 11pm on a Sunday night is not going to be acceptable.

I will be amazed if the race organisers/State Government will ever acquiesce to a night race.

It has been great having the grand prix, but not at any price.


:up:

FWIW Ron Walker has been on the news tonight saying that if it has to be a night race then he feels the race will be let go - but he is a pretty good mate of Bernie so it could be all smoke and mirrors on his part.

Albert Park isn't exactly 'suburbia' but it does have a lot residences nearby, as well as business offices. Apart from the noise issue a race at night does nothing for the image of Melbourne that the Government is trying to project as you won't see a thing outside of the track. Singapore has the track bang in the middle of the city so you can get those lovely nightshots, the Australian Open is across the Yarra from the CBD so can also get those attractive nightshots of the city but Albert Park is a few km's from the city centre - with the massive circuit lighting a night race would require, the track would pretty much look like it is located in a black hole.


#63 item3785

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:50

I would just like to say, for any non-europeans reading, I'm in the UK and have no objection to getting up at 2am in the morning. That has always been part of F1 for me. If Bernie is that bothered about european TV audiences, why not have more races in Europe?

I hope the Aus GP survives in a time that suits those paying to attend the GP, not lazy folk who think that everything should be given to them on a plate.

#64 psychedelicious

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:13

I agree with a lot of the Bernie bashing going on here. On the other hand though I wouldn't be sad to see Australia go (at least from Melbourne) as the circuit is so terminally dull. As others have said part of the fun of watching F1 is getting up at ridiculous times if you live in Europe.

#65 VresiBerba

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:15

Because that's where most of the audience is?

Then make it a Euro Championship and everyone will be right as rain.

#66 byrkus

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:20

I never minded waking early for Australian or Japanese GP, or waiting late for Canadian or Brasilian GP. But what I DO mind, fairly mildly though, is the recent boom of "night races". Abu Dhabi and Singapore would be just like what they are, if they were run at ordinary time. Night race under floodlights is nothing but unnecessary gimmick, which has NOTHING to do with the racing itself.

Hell, years ago I waited for CART races well beyond midnight, and didn't mind it at all. Or watching Daytona 500 well beyond 5 AM, without getting proper sleep (and I'm not even a NASCAR fan...). Every race has its own timetable, and they should stick to it. 2 PM local time, that's it. No matter if you're in Germany, Australia, Alaska or India. 2 PM local time, period. Not some stupid floodlights racing at night...


#67 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:34

Could you please tell Bernie to reschedule the 15 races of the year that involve me having to stay up late or get up at 3am? It's such a pain.

Having the Melbourne race at night would be crap to attend. It would cost a stupid amount of money and Bernie wouldn't cut his sanctioning fee to compensate. I already find it bad attending a twilight race such as we currently have. It just makes it awkward to do things around town and anyone who wants to head home interstate after the race on Sunday can't because the last flights out leave before you can get away from the track which means you have to stay an extra night.

Bernie doesn't give a crap about the true fans that go out of their way to attend races. Probably because they're actually reducing Bernie's revenue by only giving money to the circuit promoter who has already forked out the cash. He'd much rather if we all stayed home and watched empty grandstands on TV because that way he can maximise his TV revenue.


That doesn't sound like a hugely compelling rationale, I'm sorry. I'm Australian myself, currently living in the UK, I would have loved to attend a night race in Melbourne when I lived back in Sydney. Staying an extra night, not really a big deal. Singapore's night race is spectacular.

Face it - Australia is in a crappy timezone. The huge majority of F1 fans are based in Europe and this is the sort of thing when majoritarianism really matters. The season starts with a real whimper when the first race is in such an insane timezone.

#68 kar

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:39

I'm not sure why the city would be so against an evening/night race.

Having more people around the world who are able to watch the race would only be better advertising for the city wouldn't it?

Surely it would offset any short term costs from installing lighting around the track.


Albert park is an attractive racing circuit, best seen by day. It's not like Singapore which is frankly grey and horrible by day and only actually looks at all interesting by night.

Also the cost and the disturbance of night racing is not really acceptable in an urban environment. Even Singapore are looking to move their circuit, aren't they?

#69 FPV GTHO

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:40

:up:

FWIW Ron Walker has been on the news tonight saying that if it has to be a night race then he feels the race will be let go - but he is a pretty good mate of Bernie so it could be all smoke and mirrors on his part.


I personally thinkg Walker is in Bernie's pocket on this one, and both are simply trying to work over the government to keep the funding.

#70 FPV GTHO

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:40

:up:

FWIW Ron Walker has been on the news tonight saying that if it has to be a night race then he feels the race will be let go - but he is a pretty good mate of Bernie so it could be all smoke and mirrors on his part.


I personally thinkg Walker is in Bernie's pocket on this one, and both are simply trying to work over the government to keep the funding.

#71 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:41

The more night races there are, the less interesting they become.

#72 kar

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:43

The more night races there are, the less interesting they become.


Night races suck to be honest. Singapore is nice as a quirk. But > 1 night race is too many.

Also, something doesn't make sense. Ecclestone is always banging on about how Europe is now the 3rd world and all the money is in Asia. So, by that reasoning why *should* Australia move its race when its timezone is quite agreeable to the Asian market?

More pertinently, following Ecclestones (senile) logic, why shouldn't Europe convert its races to night races?

The answer funnily enough is this - Ecclestone is full of it, and Europe is by far and away F1's cash cow. Just foreign governments dictatorships can pay a lot more money to host races than events that must be commercially viable (as in the Western world).

Edited by kar, 01 March 2012 - 10:46.


#73 krapmeister

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:45

Joe Saward feels it's all talk to keep F1 in the papers...

Edited by krapmeister, 01 March 2012 - 10:45.


#74 karne

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:45

Face it - Australia is in a crappy timezone. The huge majority of F1 fans are based in Europe and this is the sort of thing when majoritarianism really matters. The season starts with a real whimper when the first race is in such an insane timezone.


Actually, I know several people in the UK who actually love Melbourne being on early, because it generates a sense of excitement, that you're getting up early to watch the start of the F1.

Quit crying. Honestly. It's ONE FREAKING RACE that you're disadvantaged for.

#75 oetzi

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:45

this man, he crazy...

Crazy like a fox.

#76 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:47

That doesn't sound like a hugely compelling rationale, I'm sorry. I'm Australian myself, currently living in the UK, I would have loved to attend a night race in Melbourne when I lived back in Sydney. Staying an extra night, not really a big deal. Singapore's night race is spectacular.

Face it - Australia is in a crappy timezone. The huge majority of F1 fans are based in Europe and this is the sort of thing when majoritarianism really matters. The season starts with a real whimper when the first race is in such an insane timezone.


Ask many people on here, they'll tell you how much they enjoy that special feeling of getting up very early for the first race of the season.

Those who don't want to get up get a chance to see it at normal time anyway.

#77 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:51

Actually, I know several people in the UK who actually love Melbourne being on early, because it generates a sense of excitement, that you're getting up early to watch the start of the F1.

Quit crying. Honestly. It's ONE FREAKING RACE that you're disadvantaged for.


Who is crying? I don't really care about getting up early myself, I'm used to watching F1 at odd times in Australia - but I agree with Bernie's logic that a season opener in an unpopular timezone is bad for the sport. Easy solution - go back to Australia not being the opener (a South African GP would be a great alternative, much better timezone). Alternatively make it a night race so it's on at a sensible time (i.e. after 8am) for the majority of F1 fans.

As for your friends, well I know a huge number of people over here who don't even notice that F1 is on until it arrives back in Europe, because they aren't willing to schedule their lives around a sport that's on at 7am on a weekend morning. Unfortunately as I keep saying, the bulk of F1's audience is over here and you are in a tiny minority.

Edited by goingthedistance, 01 March 2012 - 10:53.


#78 Wuzak

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:53

Maybe if they moved the race to early January they could start the race 45-60 minutes later than they do now and still be in daylight. Not that I would want them to do that.

Then if you moved the race to Hobart you could get another 20-30 minutes on top of that.


On the subject of a night race, I would suggest that the race be moved from Sunday to Saturday night. That may help with the travel problems for some.

#79 oetzi

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:54

Ask many people on here, they'll tell you how much they enjoy that special feeling of getting up very early for the first race of the season.

Yeah, people on here might. How big a proportion of the audience are people on here?

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#80 Amphicar

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:56

Didn't you know? He met the Devil at the crossroads ...

...and Bernie made the Devil sell his soul to him.

#81 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:58

Yeah, people on here might. How big a proportion of the audience are people on here?


How many will have access to the later replay?

#82 fabr68

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:59

...and Bernie made the Devil sell his soul to him.


Most likely he made the Devil sign a contract to pay him royalties for his own soul

#83 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:00

Watching live, watching a replay not the same IMO. Amazing how many times I tell myself I'll catch the replay of something but never get around to it as it's just not as exciting when all the results are already out there and chances are you already know "X won".

#84 oetzi

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:01

How many will have access to the later replay?

People prefer watching sport live. Sky know that.

#85 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:05

I love watching the live timing with the race too, so I couldn't do the delayed thing, had to get Sky on. :)

#86 Xpat

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:17

All of you that think it is about UK fans (both UK and non-UK folks) are wrong. If you haven't figured it out, fans do not enter into the equation for Bernard at all. He believes he will make more money if it is a night race. He would move the race to 1am and have it on Mars if he thought he could get another shilling from it.

I think the Australians want to keep it a day race because it is better for them. I also think they are waiting on an 82 year old man to die so they don't have to put up with being threatened by a megalomaniac. As a matter of fact, I think all race organizers are eagerly waiting for that.

#87 oetzi

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:36

All of you that think it is about UK fans (both UK and non-UK folks) are wrong. If you haven't figured it out, fans do not enter into the equation for Bernard at all. He believes he will make more money if it is a night race. He would move the race to 1am and have it on Mars if he thought he could get another shilling from it.

I think the Australians want to keep it a day race because it is better for them. I also think they are waiting on an 82 year old man to die so they don't have to put up with being threatened by a megalomaniac. As a matter of fact, I think all race organizers are eagerly waiting for that.

Having a night race will get better TV deals in the largest markets. Because it will get a larger live audience. So it pretty much is about the fans.


#88 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:38

Well it's notable that the British audience more than doubled when the Aus GP was moved from it's traditional 3:30pm timeslot to 5pm. But significantly the audience the Aus GP gets here is still a half to a third of the audience captured by a regular afternoon timeslot. 2 million versus 4-6 million for a European GP.

Given that F1 is a niche sport in Australia utilitarianism would say it should be made as late as possible to capture as much audience as possible.

#89 dau

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:41

All of you that think it is about UK fans (both UK and non-UK folks) are wrong. If you haven't figured it out, fans do not enter into the equation for Bernard at all. He believes he will make more money if it is a night race. He would move the race to 1am and have it on Mars if he thought he could get another shilling from it.

I think the Australians want to keep it a day race because it is better for them. I also think they are waiting on an 82 year old man to die so they don't have to put up with being threatened by a megalomaniac. As a matter of fact, I think all race organizers are eagerly waiting for that.

F1 makes its money with advertising. More people watching means more money. It's ALL about the audience.

Edited by dau, 01 March 2012 - 11:43.


#90 krapmeister

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:42

Well it's notable that the British audience more than doubled when the Aus GP was moved from it's traditional 3:30pm timeslot to 5pm. But significantly the audience the Aus GP gets here is still a half to a third of the audience captured by a regular afternoon timeslot. 2 million versus 4-6 million for a European GP.

Given that F1 is a niche sport in Australia utilitarianism would say it should be made as late as possible to capture as much audience as possible.


Utilitarianism would say that seeing F1 is a niche sport in Australia, we shouldn't be spending $50million+ on it and drop the race altogether...

#91 cheapracer

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:45

Won't anybody think of the StKilda Whores?

Where will they do their business at night, you thought the Greenies protests were bad, they will be up in legs arms about a night race.

#92 krapmeister

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:46

If you haven't figured it out, F1 makes its money with advertising. More people watching means more money. It's ALL about the audience.


I understand that, which is where Bernie is coming from. But you have to balance off that with the costs of the event for the race organisers - all good if Bernie is willing to come to the party but I think we all know that Bernie wants to have his cake and eat it too...

#93 karne

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:46

Given that F1 is a niche sport in Australia utilitarianism would say it should be made as late as possible to capture as much audience as possible.


Except that becomes totally impractical for the race itself.

#94 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:47

But then Bernie wouldn't be able to extort far too much money out of the Australian organisers for holding the event. :)

It's a weird situation where the sport's heart is in Europe, but Bernie is chasing the $$$ so is dependent on non-European countries to pay his inflated event fees.

#95 goingthedistance

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:48

Except that becomes totally impractical for the race itself.


Why is it impractical? I haven't seen much compelling reasoning against night racing, just a lot of people sounding like they don't like change...

#96 Ali_G

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:52

I like getting up early to watch the race.

In fact, I hate it how they moved Aus to a dusk race. I prefered when it started at 3 in the morning and qual used to be at 1AM.

#97 krapmeister

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:54

Why is it impractical? I haven't seen much compelling reasoning against night racing, just a lot of people sounding like they don't like change...


Event costs, noise issues, possible effect on ticket sales (late Sunday night start), loss of the governments desired projected image of Melbourne have all been mentioned.

You could also say that people arguing for a night race just can't be arsed to get up a bit earlier on a sunday morning... :kiss:

#98 goldenboy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:00

As an austrailan I would hate it to be a night race. May be hard for non australians to understand but imagine if we told you you have to hold silverstone or monza at night so we got to watch it at a normal time. We already have to stay up late as fcuk every 2nd sunday as it is.

Edited by goldenboy, 01 March 2012 - 12:00.


#99 karne

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:01

Why is it impractical? I haven't seen much compelling reasoning against night racing, just a lot of people sounding like they don't like change...


1. In case you hadn't noticed, Albert Park is a huge, giant, open space with a lake in the middle and a lot of open area. How exactly do you want the organisers to light that? Bearing in mind it's not just the track they have to light, it's the whole park so spectators can get around. It's not Singapore.

2. As soon as you start making the finish late at night you're going to kill the race because like it or not people do live near Albert Park. And people who have to go to work/school the next day are definitely going to object to the race finishing at 11pm (as one on here suggested).

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#100 dau

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:04

I understand that, which is where Bernie is coming from. But you have to balance off that with the costs of the event for the race organisers - all good if Bernie is willing to come to the party but I think we all know that Bernie wants to have his cake and eat it too...

Yea, Bernie tries to squeeze everything he can out of the race organisers. Earning money for CVC is his job after all, you can't expect him to go easy on them when other venues offer to pay much higher fees AND are ready to host the races during prime time in Europe. Of course it's sad when it hits a classic GP like Melbourne or Spa.

Also, we get this discussion every year right before the GP. I have to agree with Saward when he says it's very convenient: One short comment from Bernie and the Australian GP is in the headlines everywhere.

Edit: By the way, don't get me wrong, i don't want to have another night race. I actually enjoy getting up early to watch the GP, be it Melbourne or Suzuka. But i also don't think the majority of the F1 audience thinks the same.

Edited by dau, 01 March 2012 - 12:06.