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BRM Volume 4


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#1 pete3664

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 19:13

Dare I ask when BRM Volume 4 will be out--- I've spent many an hour poring over the other three and am eagerly awaiting the CanAm and other projects--- Thanks you Doug for the first three--- can't wait for the fourth!!

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#2 Barry Boor

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 19:22

Dare I ask why I get THREE separate notifications of this new thread.

Sorry, Pete, I know it's not your doing.

#3 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 20:45

May I kindly request to use the Book thread instead , please.

#4 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 21:00

Dodging the answer yet again - but as you may hear in the next few days, something has just come about which has removed one impediment in the way of V4, because I did not want to tread on someone else's toes who has had even more pressing need to complete a long, long, project involving one of the core story's main players... And the result of that project, of which I have been aware for some years, is - I promise you - eye-popping.

But thanks for your interest.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 02 March 2012 - 21:01.


#5 LittleChris

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 21:40

Lot of interest out there in when Vol 4 will come to fruition.

Even the Black Metal fans of the Czech Republic have a festival dedicated to it

https://www.facebook...102225246526091

:p

#6 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 22:04

Blimey!

But more to the point, take a look at this:

http://www.waterston...ecrets/8408783/

It's not altogether an easy read, for all manner of reasons, but my word it's extraordinary...

DCN

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 22:27

Blimey!

But more to the point, take a look at this:

http://www.waterston...ecrets/8408783/

It's not altogether an easy read, for all manner of reasons, but my word it's extraordinary...

DCN

Strewth! :eek:

#8 Steffe Ornerdal

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 22:35

Blimey!

But more to the point, take a look at this:

http://www.waterston...ecrets/8408783/

It's not altogether an easy read, for all manner of reasons, but my word it's extraordinary...

DCN


Blimey! And extraordinary and 'strange'... is it the right word in english?


#9 larryd

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 22:45

Blimey!

But more to the point, take a look at this:

http://www.waterston...ecrets/8408783/

It's not altogether an easy read, for all manner of reasons, but my word it's extraordinary...

DCN


For at least the last 25 years, I've always thought that Louis T was as odd as two left feet, without ever understanding the reason for this notion.

Maybe I was right !!

Funny old lot at Bourne - the late Tony R (Moleskin 'Arry) was perhaps the only civilised and normal one . . . . . . . . .

:)




#10 Tim Murray

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 22:55

Well I never. :eek:

#11 ensign14

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 23:00

That explains quite a bit though...why various articles were never published while His Lordship was still alive.

Of course, Margot Asquith, the second Mrs HH, was the lady who had to remind a bombshell American actress that the t in her first name was silent. As in Harlow.

#12 paulsenna1

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 23:05

Wow!

#13 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 00:05

Posted ImagePosted Image
Posted ImagePosted Image

#14 Catalina Park

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:49

Strewth and blimey!

Nothing is ever easy with BRM is it.

#15 RTH

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:53

Cue someone to start writing the screenplay surely ?

#16 D-Type

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:59

Well I never. :eek:

I've been trying to think what to say and I can't say it better than this.

Edited by D-Type, 03 March 2012 - 22:07.


#17 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:09

Whilst understanding the degree of shock exhibited in the posts on this thread, I'm not quite sure that I grasp the significance that these revelations have on the actual story of the B.R.M racing cars.

Or am I being typically naive?

#18 RTH

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:22

Sure you are right in that Barry, but it does all add to the larger than life image of LTS and his time orchestrating those sad final years of British Racing Motors

#19 Pullman99

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:33

I'm not quite sure that I grasp the significance that these revelations have on the actual story of the B.R.M racing cars.


Oh, I don't know. You could potentially have had Asquith-BRMs instead of the Stanley Steamers!

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#20 ensign14

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:50

Whilst understanding the degree of shock exhibited in the posts on this thread, I'm not quite sure that I grasp the significance that these revelations have on the actual story of the B.R.M racing cars.

Or am I being typically naive?

Gives him a better claim on being called Lord Lou...

#21 Twin Window

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:03

If the author has incorporated her brother's childhood memories there's another side altogether to the former BRM owner.

And it's not a pleasant one, either...

#22 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:32

She has, Twinny, she has... Brave lady.

DCN

#23 MartLgn

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:58

She has, Twinny, she has... Brave lady.

DCN


The 'Look inside' taster of this book on Amazon reproduces a fair few pages, the tone of which are far from Complimentary of Mr Stanley to say the least.

Regardless of such distractions, I'm sure you will let us get our grubby mitts on Vol 4 when it is good and ready. It's only been 4 years since Vol 3 which is nowt but a nanoseccond to the 9 years we waited for Vol 2. I have no idea how you bring a project which has soared so majestically in to land smoothly but I'm sure it will be well worth the wait. And when your Magnum Opus is complete Doug we look forward to The history of the Grand Prix car 1906-1945
 ;)

#24 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:50

Thank you M,

Glad you came... :rolleyes:

Actually '06-44 was on the stocks to complete that series, but the publisher got cold feet since there would be so little interest in the 1906-33 story...or "...all that early junk".

But today collectively we know soooo much more that is worth retelling in one volume - errrr, or maybe two...or...

DCN

#25 PeterElleray

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:59

maybe this gives a bit of an insight into how Stanley was able to conjure up the appropriate emergenecy service after a fatality or serious injury, and how he seemed able to cut through the red tape on such occassions. whatever his perceived (and sometimes very obvious) failings in other areas, he always received praise for this aspect of his involvement in motor racing. he was , indeed, well connected...

i have ordered the book and am looking forwards to reading more, my first thought was that surely somebody knew about this at the time? sir alfred? mays? moseley!? i dont suppose the political descedants of herbert asquith held much sway at this point in history ( i am just in the middle of reading through an in depth study of english politics in the 1920's and 30's), but politics is such a murky business, it's intriguing to think a bit laterally about some of the possible ramifications..

peter

#26 RTH

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 13:10

Thank you M,


Actually '06-44 was on the stocks to complete that series, but the publisher got cold feet since there would be so little interest in the 1906-33 story...or "...all that early junk".


DCN



.....What !!! Best bit surely !

#27 MartLgn

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 14:42

Actually '06-44 was on the stocks to complete that series, but the publisher got cold feet since there would be so little interest in the 1906-33 story...or "...all that early junk".

But today collectively we know soooo much more that is worth retelling in one volume - errrr, or maybe two...or...

DCN


Oh Doug, some things we are better off not knowing! :well:

Coincidentally I recently bought a pre-loved copy of the 1986 Autocourse in which there was still a questionnaire from Hazleton Publishing, Question 12 reads:
'One of our recent publications The Autocourse History of The Grand Prix Car 1966-86 by Doug Nye has been an enormous sucess. Would you be interested in purchasing a seccond volume covering the years 1946-65 and a third covering 1906-45?

I supose the answer to question 1 was yes and part 2 was no! Perhaps the publishers were loath to take its readers too far away from the beginning of the World Championship. What good was that early junk anyway? All those Auto Benz's and Mercedes Unions.


#28 ensign14

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 20:44

At least there is a great deal written about the Auto Unions and Mercedeses. Wouldn't mind something going through the Vinot-Deguigand or the Porthos or the Heim or the Weigel or the Diatto or the Alda or...

#29 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 16:16

Just ordered Conspiracy of Secrets as this may finally reveal a few of the shadows around Big Lou. While there have been bits of rumours about there being more to the story, this may offer those answers. While it was impossible to put my finger on, there was always the feeling that there was something always left unsaid about Mr. Stanley.

#30 Charlieman

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 17:52

So that makes LTS the great uncle of Helena Bonham Carter. Not much of a family resemblance, is there?

#31 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 13:26

Blimey!

But more to the point, take a look at this:

http://www.waterston...ecrets/8408783/

It's not altogether an easy read, for all manner of reasons, but my word it's extraordinary...

DCN

Does this make my copy of BRM volume 1 signed by (among others) Mr and Mrs S. any more valuable?. :cool:

#32 MCS

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 13:36

Does this make my copy of BRM volume 1 signed by (among others) Mr and Mrs S. any more valuable?. :cool:


Less I would say.


#33 jgm

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 15:37

According to Big Lou's obituary in The Times (4 February 2004) he was the son of a cotton broker, born on January 6 1912.

#34 Macca

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 16:38

So that makes LTS the great uncle of Helena Bonham Carter. Not much of a family resemblance, is there?


Also the great-great-uncle of Anna Chancellor ('Duckface' in 'Four Weddings and a Funeral', etc., etc.)

After LTS's death I was waiting for some revelations, but came there none - I had a vague suspicion that there might be something that would be embarrassing to the Owen family (among others), but nothing like this.

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 05 March 2012 - 16:39.


#35 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 17:31

Less I would say.

Just as well I got Frolian Gonzalez, Stirling Moss and Tony Brooks to sign it as well!.

#36 MCS

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 17:54

Just as well I got Frolian Gonzalez, Stirling Moss and Tony Brooks to sign it as well!.


In which case you've probably achieved parity then, Eric! :lol:


#37 Doug Nye

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 17:55

In his efforts to obscure his origins, as part of his social-climbing ambition, Stanley cited his father's profession as 'cotton broker' in some of the early examples of biographic entries in his early books, having escalated his claimed standing to 'cotton executive' (aka, perhaps, 'travelling salesman') and finally to 'gentleman'. It is difficult today to appreciate the social mores and stigmas of the Edwardian period, running up through the earthquake years of WW1 followed by the recovery years of the 1920s. And that 'official' birth date in January 1912 was almost certainly fixed for complex reasons which Bobbie's book fully explores.

What I am unclear about is what his sons by his first marriage - to shipping line heiress Kate Furness - might make of all this. One, John Stanley, at one stage worked on 'Autosport'...but preferred not to be connected. I believe he and his father were finally reconciled. Time can heal (some things...).

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 05 March 2012 - 18:28.


#38 Lec CRP1

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 18:36

Also the great-great-uncle of Anna Chancellor ('Duckface' in 'Four Weddings and a Funeral', etc., etc.)

After LTS's death I was waiting for some revelations, but came there none - I had a vague suspicion that there might be something that would be embarrassing to the Owen family (among others), but nothing like this.

Paul M


I read the excerpts from "Conspiracy of Secrets" on Amazon. If what the author wrote is true, then Big Lou being the illegitimate son of Asquith is by far the least shocking thing revealed about him.

I only own one of his books, and he comes across as pompous and egotistical in it. But it now also appears he was a complete b*****d. And not just by the original definition, either.

#39 larryd

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 22:51

I read the excerpts from "Conspiracy of Secrets" on Amazon. If what the author wrote is true, then Big Lou being the illegitimate son of Asquith is by far the least shocking thing revealed about him.

I only own one of his books, and he comes across as pompous and egotistical in it. But it now also appears he was a complete b*****d. And not just by the original definition, either.


Petty, I admit, but his books demonstrate that he wasn't a great photographer either !

 ;)


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#40 Lec CRP1

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 23:24

Petty, I admit, but his books demonstrate that he wasn't a great photographer either !

;)


I wouldn't know. Most of the pictures I saw in Stanley's books had the man himself dead centre in them.

#41 David Birchall

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:37

OK, I've ordered the Stanley book-although it isn't being released until My 1st...
Now, what about this bloody BRM book? :well:

#42 smbrm

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 06:40

A Volume or two regarding the history of the Grand Prix Car 1986-2000 and 2001-2013 might be nice some day as well!

cheers



Thank you M,

Glad you came... :rolleyes:

Actually '06-44 was on the stocks to complete that series, but the publisher got cold feet since there would be so little interest in the 1906-33 story...or "...all that early junk".

But today collectively we know soooo much more that is worth retelling in one volume - errrr, or maybe two...or...

DCN



#43 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:00

The high-frequency Disney era of Formula 1 racing's diaspora requires a more committed researcher/writer than I. :cat:

CND

#44 Doug Nye

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:04

Does this make my copy of BRM volume 1 signed by (among others) Mr and Mrs S. any more valuable?. :cool:


Eric - I'm really surprised to notice your post. That they should have signed my book is AMAZING! BL detested me, and it...as the whispering midnight telephone calls testified.

DCN

#45 kayemod

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:50

I wouldn't know. Most of the pictures I saw in Stanley's books had the man himself dead centre in them.


As a teenager, I was an avid reader, still am in fact. I visited my local library on the way home from school a couple of times most weeks. I hadn't even heard of Autocourse back then, but the library always bought each new copy of the Louis Stanley GP annual, though I usually had to join a waiting list and await my turn. When a postcard arrived telling me that the great day come, and I was able to bring each new one home with my school books, one of the first things I did was to count the number of photos of Louis and Jean, he usually managed to fit her in around a dozen times. My own personal connection with Lou wasn't much, I was introduced to him at Bourne when aged about nine, my dad had a friend who raced a little, and I saw him again briefly when we were doing BRM bodywork at Specialised Mouldings, I even went to his house in Trumpington once to deliver something or other. Not doubting anything anyone here says about the man, but I have to confess I rather liked him, which is probably why they gave me the home delivery job that time, I know that neither of the Jackson brothers could stand him. All this proves apparently, is that at times I've not been a very good judge of character.


#46 larryd

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:02

OK, I've ordered the Stanley book-although it isn't being released until My 1st...
Now, what about this bloody BRM book? :well:


Eh?

Amazon tell me that my copy was despatched on Monday 5th . . . . . . . .

That's the Stanley book, of course, not DCN's Volume 4

:rotfl:


#47 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:12

Eh?

Amazon tell me that my copy was despatched on Monday 5th . . . . . . . .

Mine too, but Mr Birchall is in Canada. Amazon.ca quote May 1st publication there.

#48 helioseism

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 14:51

While we wait for BRM Vol. 4, we can enjoy this.

#49 David Birchall

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 15:42

Eh?

Amazon tell me that my copy was despatched on Monday 5th . . . . . . . .

That's the Stanley book, of course, not DCN's Volume 4

:rotfl:


Bu**er!!
I wonder if I can cancel my n.american issue and get the limey one?

#50 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 16:05

Bu**er!!
I wonder if I can cancel my n.american issue and get the limey one?

Given Royal Mail's currently appalling performance you probably won't get it till June! I'm still waiting for something to arrive from St Austell that was posted last Tuesday. I could have walked from there by now!