160 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

Vettel not (yet) top ten, I can agree, but why not Schumacher? Leaving aside his questionable driving tactics (and I'm certainly not a fan of the chinned one), he should be number one, all things considered, shouldn't he?

I don't think you can leave that aside. Besides which, he may have been the best-ever at three-part flat-out stint races on third and fourth gear tracks, but whenever F1 has been about tyre conservation he has a grand total of 1 win - against a field of six.

[arttidesco]

IMHO Schumacher and Senna belong at the bottom of the entire list of Grand Prix participants for repeatedly bringing the sport into disrepute, JMF should be top with Nuvolari second after that it's all rather academic.

[kayemod]

Vettel not (yet) top ten, I can agree, but why not Schumacher? Leaving aside his questionable driving tactics (and I'm certainly not a fan of the chinned one), he should be number one, all things considered, shouldn't he? Senna was as bad as the Shoe when it came to driving standards, and he was far less successful. Yet he IS #1!

A quote a few hours old from Nigel Roebuck's newsletter.

"... I would probably include him in a list of the top 10 drivers – but not by any stretch would I put him as high as fourth, and I think many would agree with me – I can tell you, for example, that Ferrari people privately express the view that Alonso is better than Schumacher ever was."

As I'm sure I've said before in this thread, for me it's Moss and Fangio first equal at the top. Nuvolari would be up there with them, but he's not really eligible is he?

[arttidesco]

As I'm sure I've said before in this thread, for me it's Moss and Fangio first equal at the top. Nuvolari would be up there with them, but he's not really eligible is he?

But that is no reason not to include him anyway IMHO

[Gold]

Its great to see Senna top the list while the "fashionable" thing to do on TNF seems to be to hate on the man.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Its great to see Senna top the list while the "fashionable" thing to do on TNF seems to be to hate on the man.

After 127 posts I'd have thought you'd have realised that most of us are far too obstreperous & cantankerous to follow "fashion". Just because we consider the good alongside the bad doesn't mean we "hate" him - just that we want to consider all facets of a complex character in a mature and adult fashion.

Many of us dislike his disgraceful attitude (at times) in an F1 car, and are dismayed by the deification of him since his death. We also realise that (quite simply) there are plenty of drivers who were more talented and more sportsmanlike who were far more of a complete package than Senna. Interesting that the idiot Benson indulges in sycophancy in extremis in his scribblings on Senna's unjustified inclusion at the top of this foolish list, but is (unsurprisingly) rather light on the specifics of why Senna is in any way "better" than the drivers below him. He also ignores Senna's obvious faults (much discussed at the time), such as his magnetic attraction to backmarkers, his equal inability to avoid Mansell on track and his ability to be out-psyched by other drivers (Hungary 86, Monza 87, Monaco 88, France 88, Japan 90). These failings should be considered in the same way as his unquestioning ability to be brilliant when the mood took him (Japan 88, Estoril 85, Donington 93).

[jj2728]

After 127 posts I'd have thought you'd have realised that most of us are far too obstreperous & cantankerous to follow "fashion". Just because we consider the good alongside the bad doesn't mean we "hate" him - just that we want to consider all facets of a complex character in a mature and adult fashion.

Many of us dislike his disgraceful attitude (at times) in an F1 car, and are dismayed by the deification of him since his death. We also realise that (quite simply) there are plenty of drivers who were more talented and more sportsmanlike who were far more of a complete package than Senna. Interesting that the idiot Benson indulges in sycophancy in extremis in his scribblings on Senna's unjustified inclusion at the top of this foolish list, but is (unsurprisingly) rather light on the specifics of why Senna is in any way "better" than the drivers below him. He also ignores Senna's obvious faults (much discussed at the time), such as his magnetic attraction to backmarkers, his equal inability to avoid Mansell on track and his ability to be out-psyched by other drivers (Hungary 86, Monza 87, Monaco 88, France 88, Japan 90). These failings should be considered in the same way as his unquestioning ability to be brilliant when the mood took him (Japan 88, Estoril 85, Donington 93).

Very well put. And I might add, WTF is a 'hater' anyhow? Such a deplorable and immature term......

[RogerFrench]

Very well put. And I might add, WTF is a 'hater' anyhow? Such a deplorable and immature term......

What's more, how the devil does one "hate on" another?

[kayemod]

Very well put. And I might add, WTF is a 'hater' anyhow? Such a deplorable and immature term......

A very popular term in Racing Comments, and that's all you need to know.

[john aston]

Well, I may be officially an old fart now but I am in the minority of TNFers who will happily put Senna right at the top of my list, iffy tactics on occasion or no. I can only feel comfortable in expressing a view on drivers I have seen myself in period - and preferably live- and within those criteria Senna is the pre-eminent driver in speed and commitment.He looked special in FF1600 and nothing in his later career changed my view. Not my favourite driver, nor the one I respect the most (that would be Lauda in both cases)but Senna deserves the accolade in my view.But I certainly don't ..ermm..'hate on' Moss, Fangio et al. Oops, my bad innit (copyright L Hamilton 2012 innit )

[kayemod]

I certainly don't ..ermm..'hate on' Moss, Fangio et al. Oops, my bad innit (copyright L Hamilton 2012 innit )

Maybe not, but you're "dissing" them, aren't you?